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Patrick Arnold's Monsterdrol Findings

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J2jud said:
I have stated my reasoning and outlook. Have you been reading all my posts?
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Yes. Still not finding any reasoning with substance as to why you believe what you do.

If you admit this:

J2jud said:
I cannot know everything. Just rough observational based assessment. Facts are hard to come by when you do not have all the information. Obviously, as you're stating, I do not. Every side has story.
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Then you're an ok guy :)
 
chocolatemilk said:
Yes. Still not finding any reasoning with substance as to why you believe what you do.

If you admit this:



Then we're good.
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That is what I said. Observations. That is what anyone can do on the internet without all the facts right in front of them. Generally, this happens from one forum to another.

Yukon Cornelius said:
Then we're good.
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Awesome. I'm glad we've come to an understanding.
 
biggfly said:
Why such hostility out of a board admin? Did I miss something "personal" here or ????
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x2 I am shocked to see such animosity from a board admin, and neg repping as well? If I didnt know better.. I'd say that account was hacked.. I'm kinda let down by this. Admin/mods should not act in such a manner.
 
Yeah, we should be robots that never neg. Not teh NEGZ!!!

I'm shocked, SHOCKED. You've been here since 2005 and you are shocked by this? Thats funny.
 
Its not quite that man, I mean yes neg repping sucks lol, especially for 50k!! But I think its more or less the attitude thats coming off with your posts. It seems like your upset, or angry, alot of sarcasm. I don't think the op started this thread for hatred and bashing, I think it was just to finish what was already started by "TheWriting" whos thread is locked. He did say he would post his findings, and I'm glad he did, at least one person who said they would.. actually did.
 
Well I don't generally get involved in these kind of discussions. I've been here that long but it was mostly for the reading, and learning. I stuck mostly to reading what I thought could help me learn about steroids, beginners logs, pct forums, etc.

I'm also hoping that my part in this thread wont have me ended up losing rep either lol. TBH I am a bit nervous about that, which I don't feel is right. I shouldn't have to worry about what I post, as long as it doesn't violate the rules, and being negged for it. Especially by an admin.
 
Pipes said:
Its not quite that man, I mean yes neg repping sucks lol, especially for 50k!! But I think its more or less the attitude thats coming off with your posts. It seems like your upset, or angry, alot of sarcasm. I don't think the op started this thread for hatred and bashing, I think it was just to finish what was already started by "TheWriting" whos thread is locked. He did say he would post his findings, and I'm glad he did, at least one person who said they would.. actually did.
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Hey Pipes,

Have someone accuse you of being all about the money and see how you like it. Have someone accuse you of actually running this place with a bias towards companies because they pay you and see how you like it. The guy that got negged basically said all I care is about the money...he's lucky he only got negged.

If you think I'm going to sit back and let people say such things without firing back, you're nuts.
 
Pipes said:
I'm also hoping that my part in this thread wont have me ended up losing rep either lol. TBH I am a bit nervous about that, which I don't feel is right. I shouldn't have to worry about what I post, as long as it doesn't violate the rules, and being negged for it. Especially by an admin.
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So in other words, you don't want to take any responsibility for what you say.

Its very simply, this place is free. Nobody is keeping you here. You have no obligation to me or this forum by being a member. You can come and go when you please. If you do not like how this place is run, there are plenty of other places you can go. I'm not here to kiss your ass and convince you to stay. If you want someone to kiss your ass then try one of the smaller forums who will say and do about anything to get members...why? So they can get larger...and make money. If you follow the rules, you won't have a problem with me. That simple.
 
I believe it to have been a few bad pills that didnt get the hormone mixed in during manufacturing. Its no reason to freak out. They are not regulated like pharmacy drugs are. Just relax. Those experienced will know if there is a hormone in there or not. I KNOW I WOULD.
 
Chocolatemilk, Jud's posts have no substance to them? Not sure what you meant there. The point of this thread is to discuss the substance, or lack thereof, in your monsterdrol product. Your cycle and pct advice I've seen you fumble around with is terrible btw. I recently saw you claim an OTC AI is more important and better than a serm for pct, along with plenty more biased/incorrect advice. No credibility for you.
 
hoopem6 said:
----------

11/19/10:



12/7/10:



Unreal, for starters, how about Nathan proclaims an apology with substance that is void of crowd appeasing fluff. I really don't understand how he can be apologetic and genuinely concerned in one thread, then arrogant and careless in another.
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You take two statements out of huge paragraphs I wrote on two different forums.. Did I say I was ever going to put the product back on the market? No in fact in that same paragraph I clearly said I would not... I also said ( like always) My lines of communication are always open for anyone who wants a refund. I also said ( like always) That regardless of results of any test that my main concern is that the product is clean and safe and that I care about the customers, members, and people on all the forums. I also (once again, like always) stated I made the mistake of not having a test done on the product before I put in on the market.

So if you are going to re post what I say then at least post what I say " in its entirety" please. Not just nit pick bits and peaces to make it look as bad as you can. That is like the inquirer or a gag news taking little clips from famous people and spoofing them altogether to give the appearance that its something that it is not...

That second quote was a tiny clip of something I said in reply to what is nothing more then a test results of some random caps sent in a plastic bag to PA who BTW would not even bother wasting his time to post results himself. ( no disrespect meant at all to the person who sent them.)

Its real easy to take bits and peaces of everything I say and string them together to give what ever appearance you want to portray. Fact of the mater is I still have the same stance I did when the first thread on the subject was made. Only thing I have added is "yes many people are getting great gains and I practically have to hunt people down and force refunds on them"

Simple stating the facts of what I have seen and experienced on my end of things. When I say " If I were to put the product back in stock I would have a hard time keeping it in stock" Its a fact and nothing more. It does not mean that is my plan, or that is what I am going to do, and it in no way means that when I say out right that I am not going to...

What I posted was the simple facts of what I have been experiencing. The real life feed back and customer interactions I have been getting over the past couple of weeks. The phone calls, the emails, the pm's from all of the "customers" who have bought the product.. Spent there money on it. And what 98% off all of them have to say is nothing but positive. Truthfully I see nothing wrong with posting what the people who have paid for the product have to say about it.



I find it odd that minuscule 2% if that of the customers/people who spent there many ( the people who should really have a say in all of this) have nothing!!!! nothing!!!! but positive things to say. I find it odd that I have gotten 100 times more people out right begging me to bring the product back then I have a single complaint of any kind. That the tiny amount of people that did ask for a refund only did so because of the thread made with the last test. and only 1 person who used the product got a refund and that person I had to hunt down and practically force a refund on him.

I simple stated facts. With a 98% or more approval rating, Not a single person dead or hurt in anyway. Anyone even remotely close to less then happy getting a refund. And my board wide announcement giving everyone my contact info on every forum across the net letting people know how to get a refund and that I encourage them to get one because I would rather they be happy and get there money back then worry about anything.

I think with all of the "facts" the product has turned out a phuck of a lot better then half the products put out there in supplement history.. And yes if I did put it back in the store I would have one hell of a hard time trying to keep the product in stock...

That is the facts like it or not and that is what I said. However because I said that it in no way what so ever negates what I have said in the very first thread made about this topic... Stating the facts of the experience I have had on my end since the beginning of all of this does not mean anything other then I put the facts on the table.

My public apology that I posted in the last thread still stands as much today as it did the day I posted it. Me posting the facts of my experiences, interactions with the customers since then changes nothing.


Unless of course you take a little clip of it out of context. Unless you put effort into putting a spin on it!!!!

Then again I guess I should just not talk about what the customers are saying right? They have no say in the matter at all right. The people who logged into the web site pulled out there card, punched in there info and spent money on the product have no say in the matter. In fact posting the feed back from the one group of people who matter most in all of this really does not matter at all. It should be frowned upon.

The people who bought the product. The ones I guess everyone is trying to defend here have spoken. what they have to say should be used against me like a negative? Because I am the person who is getting all of there feed back I posted about it. And I will post it proudly for them. I am speaking on there behalf and simple stating the facts that they have stated to me.

You are in here in this thread speaking as if you were a customer. Everyone is in here in this thread speaking as though they are speaking on behalf of a customer.

As a matter of damn fact!!!!!!!!!! well over 90% of the people in this thread are speaking on behalf of some one else. Talking about "well the customer, and the people who got the product", and things like this.. Yet the real fact is that well over 90% of the people in this thread and the last thread are not the customer, never were a customer, and probably never will be a customer of any of my stores.



So here is another "fact" or should a say a question, and a great one at that. How many real life customers who bought the product? How many people who have a much larger say in all of this then anyone else including you me and over 90% of the people in this thread. How many of the people who everyone feels they are saving from this dastardly deed have shown up to any of these threads to voice a complaint of any kind? Please lets go ahead and count them. Lets rattle off the names? I mean with how bad some people are trying to make this look there must be hundreds of them right? No you're right.. with what some people are tying to portray here there has to be more then hundred. By god there must be thousands by now...

UMMM yet how come we are not seeing any of them? By some peoples(haters) comments I have seen posting around this is like the biggest supplement scandal in history. It goes so deep and stems so far that its got everyone involved from board admins and owners to mods,board vets and 295 NTBM reps. Yet out of all of this you can scour the whole internet for days and not a single complaint from some one who bought,paid, and used the product can be found anywhere. WHERE IN THE PHUCK ARE THEY ALL???


Me saying that is nothing more then stating a simple fact!!! I fact that is Cristal clear and can not be disputed in anyway shape or form.


That is not arrogant and careless. Its stating the str8 up facts. It is also not retracting my statements made in the other thread that was made on this very same damn subject. Its nothing more then me stating what I have been seeing and hearing from the people who matter most in all of this...


You know what though. As I was typing all of this I figured out. 5 people asked for a refund when the first thread was made. 1 person got tracked down and I forced a refund on him. 1 more person ( the guy who sent the caps to PA) asked a for a refund today. The other 493 bottles of product was given to Reps who work for me.. That would explain everything..

To the real customers. Anyone who really did buy a bottle of Monsterdrol-xt
I am here 24 hours day 7 days a week. Call me, email me, Pm me on any forum and I will go to the ends of the earth to help you ( some of the ones who asked for a refund not only got a refund but I also did some cool stuff for them. I will let them post about it if they feel like doing so) I look forward to hearing from any of the good peeps who did get a bottle of the product and look forward to taking care of you in anyway I can..

Thank you to the customers, My friends, supporters, Family, and people who deal with me and my customer service on the regular. You are the ones who know my true Heart and I can see that you all are as happy as you have always been and always will be..

Peace.
 
jbryand101b said:
be carefull, if you question if the caps were legit, you might end up permanently banned on ntbm.com.

but to answer your question, before I was banned over at ntbm.com, I asked in a thread what color the caps were from some mdxt users (on their own forum).

pa stated before pics of the caps sent were up, the caps were white, the pics of the caps in the bottle were white, and thanks to "hide my azz" I was able to look at the thread I asked the color of the caps, and they are indeed white.

if it helps, needto did not question the legitimacy of the caps sent to pa, or the pics of the caps in the bottle.

and yes, I am a former ntbm rep, and now, former friend of nate (needto)
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the color of the extract of the contents of the caps was a deep green (after my solvent extraction) which i found rather odd. is there an ingredient in this stuff that would be expected to be green like that?
 
ok so i'm not a rep for anyone, just a customer, i haven't at this time ever bought a product from ntbm, just received a tub of n2kts.....i find it funny that ppl are now bashing but when he was giving out 100 tubs i'm sure a lot of people had their hands out (heisman)...and i look at the original thread, those ppl at the other forum are clowns

i also find it funny that two tests came back, totally different results each time...but what really gets me is both tests were performed and started by owners or former owners who probably still have interest in the company of competition, they have nothing to lose if they report faulty test results, but they have a business that can benefit from competition in their industry getting a dirty name

with that being said, if this product didn't have whats in it, we deserve to know, but i would prefer an independent lab result, not compeition testing these products....if this product or any other product is tainted, us as consumers should know about it, we spend tons of money on supplements (or atleast i do), dedicate time on this forum to better educate ourselfs of what is healthy and not healthy, if we're putting bad substances in our body that we were told were something safe then this is a huugge problem, not only for the company in question but also the ppl who may have long term affects
 
J2jud said:
[COLOR*********]That was taken from another site. I spoke what I believed to be the truth. [/COLOR]How can one from the outside looking in ever make any other assumptions when legitimate negative threads about companies or products get locked or deleted? My assumptions come from your members telling me this and that (what happened on AM, etc) and how they were banned for questioning etc. I'm not saying YOU specifically did anything to these people or threads. However, I can see your view as I am saying "AM", so it does include yourself.

As said before, my thoughts were not expressed on AM. Also, that was in reference to Nate.
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Taking bits and peaces of what you said on another web site. Adding it to things you said on this site, along with any other post you made on the net. Stringing them all together to make it appear something that it is not????

Why thats down right unthinkable!!!!!
 
valid points on both sides of this debate. facts are facts though, the product does not contain the intended ingredient. logs or not for myself im not ok with that. since i know where i stand and this matter cannot possibly be resolved conclusively, im going to withdraw from the conversation as i dont think i have anything productive more to say, and id rather not be a part of bashing.

i appreciate all the tests that were ran from the different individuals, i do not care about legal chain of custody or legitimacy of tabs sent from consumers, as we are all here for the same reason, and as consumers, not sponsors or reps, we all just want quality product. i dont feel that anyone has intentedly mislead or tampered with any of the lab tests. thanks again and to each their own.
 
Pipes said:
valid points on both sides of this debate. facts are facts though, the product does not contain the intended ingredient. logs or not for myself im not ok with that. since i know where i stand and this matter cannot possibly be resolved conclusively, im going to withdraw from the conversation as i dont think i have anything productive more to say, and id rather not be a part of bashing.

i appreciate all the tests that were ran from the different individuals, i do not care about legal chain of custody or legitimacy of tabs sent from consumers, as we are all here for the same reason, and as consumers, not sponsors or reps, we all just want quality product. i dont feel that anyone has intentedly mislead or tampered with any of the lab tests. thanks again and to each their own.
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:clap2:

Well said Pipes!
 
Yukon Cornelius said:
Boy, wonder what banning a rep would do then. That would really help my credibility. I mean, ban a rep of a company that pays me. I'm on thin ice there!
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Well then you guys are golden then.. Because for the company that in the start of this thread was called ( the golden child of Am).. You guys have banned a crap load of my reps lmao... If anyone was standing in my shoes for even a second. The admin and mods helping me out in anyway on this site would not even cross there anabolicminds..

Dunn was giving me a world of hell just the other week in the N2KTS thread. Besides what is there like 2 admins and 3 mods on this whole forum?
As huge as this site is I can bet it has less admins and mods then the MFF board does.. So What does that say about things?
 
It means we're overworked aholes and we don't trust many people to be MODS.
 
Pipes said:
Its not quite that man, I mean yes neg repping sucks lol, especially for 50k!! But I think its more or less the attitude thats coming off with your posts. It seems like your upset, or angry, alot of sarcasm. I don't think the op started this thread for hatred and bashing, I think it was just to finish what was already started by "TheWriting" whos thread is locked. He did say he would post his findings, and I'm glad he did, at least one person who said they would.. actually did.
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UH your are kidding right? I am not even going to bother to post what he said on the other forum before he came here to make the thread. Or the countless times he has come back to this thread and that other thread to bash me... I will just re post what he first said when he came here...


ironman2388 said:
Good evening, NTBM brainwashed victims. I am a regular poster at M-F-F and several private forums. I came across some information earlier tonight that I wanted to share here at NTBM central. A regular member at M-F-F sent several monsterdol pills to Partrick Arnold for analysis.
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I mean the intro says it all and everything else added with it juts adds to the clear fact that he posted it for the soul reasons "hatred and bashing"..

Its so clear You really can not even help him make up any other reason?
 
Young Gotti said:
ok so i'm not a rep for anyone, just a customer, i haven't at this time ever bought a product from ntbm, just received a tub of n2kts.....i find it funny that ppl are now bashing but when he was giving out 100 tubs i'm sure a lot of people had their hands out (heisman)...and i look at the original thread, those ppl at the other forum are clowns
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Thats what the boards are like. People are fickle and its mob mentality. Few stop to think in a reasonable objective manner
 
needtogetmuscle said:
I mean the intro says it all and everything else added with it juts adds to the clear fact that he posted it for the soul reasons "hatred and bashing"..

Its so clear You really can not even help him make up any other reason?
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Wah, Wah. We have another cry baby. Let me get a kleenex for the rest of this sob story. It's sole reasons, btw. I just like holding supplement companies responsible for their behavior. If you can't take the scrutiny, don't sell bunk products, cut corners, and lie to your customers. It really seems like you're unraveling man. Might be time for a valium.
 
Yukon Cornelius said:
Hey Pipes,

Have someone accuse you of being all about the money and see how you like it. Have someone accuse you of actually running this place with a bias towards companies because they pay you and see how you like it. The guy that got negged basically said all I care is about the money...he's lucky he only got negged.

If you think I'm going to sit back and let people say such things without firing back, you're nuts.
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You know Yukon there seems to be a lot of that accusations going around lmao.. And it all seems to be coming from the same group of people... HMMMMMM??????
 
I re-extracted the remnants with another solvent. I am finding the same peak that appears to be piperine and thats it.

Does it mean there is nothing else active in the caps? Not necessarily. There could always be some completely oddball steroid in there that for some reason does not elute from my column. However the steroid listed on the label certainly should have showed up the way i tested it
 
Definitely not joining on the debate, but in defense of Yukon (not that he needs it) I am a rep on these boards and in good standing with my company, most other companies, and the admins. I also have received 2 infractions since become a rep, both from times I slipped judgement. To think that reps/owners are treated any differently from the board rules is a blatant lie.
 
needtogetmuscle said:
You know Yukon there seems to be a lot of that accusations going around lmao.. And it all seems to be coming from the same group of people... HMMMMMM??????
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What same group? Everyone, but NTBM and it's affiliates? Still don't get your point. It seems to be just panicked deflection from the truth. Desperation is a stinky cologne....wasn't expecting much more out of you.
 
needtogetmuscle said:
We have picked a lab(searched around and thought about it for a bit) and sent a few bottles out to have it tested for impurities and we are positive it will show that the product is clean
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Will this testing confirm or deny the existence of the claimed compound? Or are they just testing for "impurities"? When will the results be announced?
 
henryv said:
Will this testing confirm or deny the existence of the claimed compound? Or are they just testing for "impurities"? When will the results be announced?
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my testing showed no impurities.

so i guess its all about looking at the glass half full. :lol:
 
needtogetmuscle said:
I even sent a mass pm on my forums letting everyone know about what was going on and the last thread that was made. So every single customer knows about it and yet only 6 asked for a refund and 1 got forced a refund.
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On needtobuildmuscle.net? I didn't get one. The only thing I noticed was that the day the original test results were announced on here, you deleted the sticky about Monsterdrol XT on there.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I re-extracted the remnants with another solvent. I am finding the same peak that appears to be piperine and thats it.

Does it mean there is nothing else active in the caps? Not necessarily. There could always be some completely oddball steroid in there that for some reason does not elute from my column. However the steroid listed on the label certainly should have showed up the way i tested it
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So, to focus on the pertinent information: PA, you have not seen the peaks you would expect after using two separate solvents?

In your opinion, is there any possible way the expected compound would not be revealed using your methods?
 
Technically a company should keep QC retention samples of the active ingredients as well as finished caps. If a sample of the purported steroid that was put into this formula was retained then we could be saving ourselves a lot of trouble here

QC is a pain in the ass but situations like this show you how helpful it can be
 
qality control is a pain in the lazy mans ass. I hate quality assurance at my work place. but they make sure the rules are being followed.
 
xFRACTION said:
But Patrick, I thought you said it would be easy to tell what the compound was if you personally examined it
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Yeah thats what I was expecting. Well, i was not expecting that it would be easy to identify necessarily but I was hoping that at least i could get a mass spectrum to work with. But my caps showed nothing but piperine

Apparently what I received was not what was tested by RTP. Thats the only explanation i can think of
 
Mulletsoldier said:
So, to focus on the pertinent information: PA, you have not seen the peaks you would expect after using two separate solvents?

In your opinion, is there any possible way the expected compound would not be revealed using your methods?
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I really don't think so. But I cannot say for 100 percent certainty

Don't you think it would have been helpful if NTBM had kept a sample of the steroid that was put into the caps? Would have saved us all this "what if" bull****
 
Man this thread has gotten personal for alot of people. Interesting info though.
 
Damn this s**t is disheartening. I never tried the monsterdrol, only need2slin right now. So far I like it.

jeeeeez...supp companies.

Either this is sh*t is bunk or the testing was flawed, and/or the samples were not legit.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I really don't think so. But I cannot say for 100 percent certainty

Don't you think it would have been helpful if NTBM had kept a sample of the steroid that was put into the caps? Would have saved us all this "what if" bull****
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I agree!

As far as I know, a catalog of both reference and retention samples are a necessary component of GMP certification. Again, to the extent of my knowledge of best practices, the amount of primary materials (reference samples) and finished product according to the labels (retention samples) needs to be sufficient for two full analyses.

These samples would allow us to eliminate any chain of custody ambiguities: we would possess materials from the source itself, which would allow us to eliminate any possibility for cross-contamination and the like.
 
needtogetmuscle said:
So if you are going to re post what I say then at least post what I say " in its entirety" please. Not just nit pick bits and peaces to make it look as bad as you can. That is like the inquirer or a gag news taking little clips from famous people and spoofing them altogether to give the appearance that its something that it is not...

That second quote was a tiny clip of something I said in reply to what is nothing more then a test results of some random caps sent in a plastic bag to PA who BTW would not even bother wasting his time to post results himself. (no disrespect meant at all to the person who sent them)
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What exactly was misconstrued from your original statements, Nathan? Did my quotation not reflect your core ideology? Anyways, the second quote, in its entirety, reads as follows:

needtogetaas said:
Ya we all had a blast lololollolol.... Big threads and a crowed are always fun but maybe we can get one here rather then there lolol.... Anyway you look at it though, you know how the game works Grambo. No Advertising/press Is bad Advertising/press.. I got people coming out of the wood work asking me to bring that product back. I have half the people who got some begging for more. I am willing to bet if I put the product back on the market I would have trouble keeping it in stock..
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----------

needtogetmuscle said:
Its real easy to take bits and peaces of everything I say and string them together to give what ever appearance you want to portray. Fact of the mater is I still have the same stance I did when the first thread on the subject was made. Only thing I have added is "yes many people are getting great gains and I practically have to hunt people down and force refunds on them"

Simple stating the facts of what I have seen and experienced on my end of things. When I say " If I were to put the product back in stock I would have a hard time keeping it in stock" Its a fact and nothing more. It does not mean that is my plan, or that is what I am going to do, and it in no way means that when I say out right that I am not going to...
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Everything I have brought to attention was obtained via public forum. Nothing presented was pieced together to give the reader a false impression of what was actually quoted.

In reality, your novelesque rebuttals are nothing more that a rouse to appease the masses. Maybe 98% of your customers are in fact satisfied with their Monsterdrol XT purchase... But, the compound(s) they are satisfied with aren't what was erroneously printed on the label.

Your continual contradictions are what irk me the most, Nathan. Just two weeks ago, you vehemently denied the screenshots posted of your rep forum. You boldly exclaimed their supposed inaccuracies by stating they had been "photoshopped."

needtogetmuscle said:
God some people will do anything for a laugh and its getting to be a little much. So Some rep took a few screen shots of my rep forum. Mostly picks of me ether telling the reps to leave people alone and act right ( a good thing) but then of course some pretty photo shopped doctored up bull crap files to go with it.
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However, Jbry called you out for instructing users/reps to "neg train" particular forum members. You responded by stating:

needtogetaas said:
That sh*t happen one time and one time only..You of all people know that.. Name one other time since you were a rep for a pretty long time I think you would know... Gray Warden and that was it... I never claim to be perfect I a am fair from sending out orders to neg people "on the regular"...
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Meaning, you publicly lied to me and the AM community once again.

And yes, I know this information may be secondary to Nathan's 60-day money back guarantee, but that still doesn't mean he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions...
 
Yukon Cornelius said:
Hey Pipes,

Have someone accuse you of being all about the money and see how you like it. Have someone accuse you of actually running this place with a bias towards companies because they pay you and see how you like it. The guy that got negged basically said all I care is about the money...he's lucky he only got negged.

If you think I'm going to sit back and let people say such things without firing back, you're nuts.
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Well thanks for setting my views straight with your negs... I mean yeah I thought you were just about the money... But hey I forgot that we must be able to talk about what supplement stores we like, that we have freedom of speach and reps from any company must be allowed to come and tell people about there new products.


Oh wait.... Now I remember you say if your not a sponsor here we don't want your logs here either. Oh and that's right we get banned if we post where to buy supplements from outside of nutraplanet.... I wonder why we can talk about NP but not other supplement stores.... Oh yeah because NP is paying you and your not getting paid from other stores.
:usa:
Yeah way to prove me wrong with the neg. :sadwavey:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I agree!

As far as I know, a catalog of both reference and retention samples are a necessary component of GMP certification. Again, to the extent of my knowledge of best practices, the amount of primary materials (reference samples) and finished product according to the labels (retention samples) needs to be sufficient for two full analyses.

These samples would allow us to eliminate any chain of custody ambiguities: we would possess materials from the source itself, which would allow us to eliminate any possibility for cross-contamination and the like.
Click to expand...


sounds like it was the contract manufacturer that got the raws to put in the caps. perhaps we should be asking the questions to them, whoever them may be
 
I don't get why a company would use untested raws from an untrusted source though. I guess cutting corners to save a buck at the customers expense makes sense, but it would be great if NTBM could elaborate on the source of their bunk monsterdrol if it wasn't done intentionally by them.
 
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