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Oxygen 4 Energy - Pure Oxygen

bdcc said:
Was this to balance out the good karma from RickRock's last post? lol

This is an open forum and tnubs has a lot more knowledge on this than me. I for one am interested in his comments. He should be allowed to post his thoughts whether they are good or bad.
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Would we bash one of your products before it came out?? before they were any results from it?? i would guess not......
 
While it can be good to keep on hand in case of emergency, we need to remember oxygen is not exactly good for cells.

Just look at what happens when you expose a cut apple to the air, it gets all brown and dead - that's the oxygen. Oxygen is a rough chemical for biological life, though we do need it to survive.
 
I'm not disagreeing with any of the points tnubs has made. I can't seem to make that clear enough. But like I've said, I trust Nate's judgment, so I'm waiting to see Rick's log and try it myself.

To those that want to see it cheaper: same could be said about a lot of products, could it not? It comes down to if the product works and is worth it. If it is, then paying the price doesn't seem that horrible. If it's not, then nothing lost. What I would say is for anyone skeptical, don't buy the product, yet! Wait for some logs, wait to see some science (from Mr. Supps's end) and then buy if you feel so inclined. If you do not, then don't buy it. I have never pushed products that I don't support or believe in, so that's why I'm not pushing this one. The only thing I'm saying is give it a minute before you write it off, and if you do, then it really doesn't hurt my feelings. That's like the arguments on varieties of creatines; if it works for you then so be it.

And as for asking or Mr. Supps to back its claims, I'm waiting or the science to come, as well. But don't say that we're providing evasive maneuvers. We are reps. We do this because we enjoy it and because we're on the forums, anyway.

I'm an academic advisor with a bachelor's in radio/tv broadcasting and a master's in communication -- this is not my wheelhouse! DarkHalf works in IT, Makaveli owns his own business. Not all of us have science backgrounds or professions. None of us are avoiding questions. Do you think we don't pass the questions along to someone who can answer them? We do.
 
I would wonder if this would help if I was on a methyl considering the fact methyls ruin running capabilities lol...
 
MidwestBeast said:
And yet you were the one saying we should send you a product to log...
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Cause I wouldn't be bias, Im not a rep and I have EIA, so I'll be more than real about a product that helped with my EIA, since im more of a HIIT, amateur boxing training regimen rather than hitting the weights I feel this product will "work" more for my type than the guy bench pressing on Mondays and Thursdays,
 
They're charging a freakin buck (4 quarters) for air around here, and thats for my tires. so this actually seems like a bargain in comparison. Then again, I got a station across the street from me that has free air, which is great. But somebody always gotta cut the line being "cool".....then I gotta pay a buck for air again.
 
MidwestBeast said:
I'm not disagreeing with any of the points tnubs has made. I can't seem to make that clear enough. But like I've said, I trust Nate's judgment, so I'm waiting to see Rick's log and try it myself.
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What does one trial mean? Very little.

Have you heard of a placebo effect? You want to test this stuff, then set up a double blind experiment. Gather 10 people and put them through two equal exercise trials. In one trial 5 of them breath regular air out of a similar can and the other 5 breath the O2 enriched. Then measure their exercise capacity (maybe a treadmill run to failure at 9 mph for time). Then...3 or 4 days later. Get them all back in, and switch the treatments. Again, neither researcher nor subjects will know what they are inspiring. Run the test again.

If there is a significant difference between the two treatments, then it may be effective. If not, then its not likely effective.

Br
 
ZiR RED said:
What does one trial mean? Very little.

Have you heard of a placebo effect? You want to test this stuff, then set up a double blind experiment. Gather 10 people and put them through two equal exercise trials. In one trial 5 of them breath regular air out of a similar can and the other 5 breath the O2 enriched. Then measure their exercise capacity (maybe a treadmill run to failure at 9 mph for time). Then...3 or 4 days later. Get them all back in, and switch the treatments. Again, neither researcher nor subjects will know what they are inspiring. Run the test again.

If there is a significant difference between the two treatments, then it may be effective. If not, then its not likely effective.

Br
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If a product has shady science on paper I am all for people calling it out to discuss their opinions. I don't know why gymrat got snappy, if PES made something that faced criticism I wouldn't tell anyone to "shut their mouth" lol.

On the other side me, you and everyone else here knows that asking for double blind studies is going too far the other way to prove whether a supplement works or not. It just doesn't happen on here and it isn't fair to ask for it from one company in my opinion.

P.S., of course Midwest has heard of the placebo effect. If he hasn't I will eat my hat. :)
 
MidwestBeast said:
I'm not disagreeing with any of the points tnubs has made. I can't seem to make that clear enough. But like I've said, I trust Nate's judgment, so I'm waiting to see Rick's log and try it myself.
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I refuse to talk negatively about the owner of NTBM, but it is fact that he drinks, smokes, is fat, and has very poor command of the English language.

That said, I have used some of his products, and I like GEAR. This oxygen thing is just another joke however.
 
Now, because this is a strength training forum, lets talk about factors that influence fatigue and loss of power during resistance training.

This is what has been proposed, based on scientific testing.

Acidosis (low pH) in the tissues. When we exercise at high intensities, high glycolysis rates result in the formation of lactate acid. The hydrogen molecule (H+) disassociates from the lactate and reduces the pH of the muscle cell. As a result, energy production via glycolysis is reduced and cross bridge cycling is slowed. Additionally, when the H+ molecule moves out of the cell into the interstitial space and the blood, it impinges on nerve endings, yielding the "burn" you feel, and may also reduce neural transmission.

Next, inorganic phosphate (Pi). To create movement our muscles break down ATP into ADP, Pi, and energy. This Pi has been shown to interfere with cross bridge cycling and neural transmission. In addition, the production of movement via ATP releases free adenosine (the A in ATP) into the blood stream. This adenosine crosses the blood to brain barrier to signal central fatigue. This is also how caffeine exerts cognitive stimulation by blocking ADO.

Finally, an excessive amount of potassium (hyperkalemia) in the interstitial fluid can cause fatigue. This happens for a few reasons. First, repolarization from an action potential (ie. neural stimulation to contract) results initial movement of K out of the cell. Second, damage to the muscle cell membrane results in K leaking out of the cell. Finally, increased H+ (reduce pH) is associated with increased levels of K.

Not one of these causes of fatigue has anything to do with breathing oxygen.

Even in endurance sports at sea level, the amount of oxygen one breaths in is not a limiting factor. Oxygen saturation of the blood at rest is 95-98%, and this level will drop slightly during endurance exercise to about 92-93% in people without EIH or COPD. Breathing extra O2 will not have much of an effect since increasing temperature and H+ (effects of exercise) result in an increased unloading at muscle tissue.

So what is the limiting factor? One is how much oxygen the blood can carry. The more O2 the blood can carry, the more than can be delivered to muscle cells. This is why EPO is a popular drug amongst cyclists: it increases red blood cell count, thus increasing O2 carrying capacity. Also with delivery is how efficient is the heart. The greater the cardiac output (the more blood pumped per minute) the greater the O2 that will be delivered to the tissues. The final question becomes how well equipped are the muscles to extract the O2 from the blood and carry it into the mitochondria. This is a question of capillary density, myoglobin content, and mitochondrial mass.

No where in this equation is the amount of oxygen breathed in a limiting factor, at least not in healthy subjects exercising at sea level.

And, even if you were exercising at altitude, increasing SaO2 a few percentages for a few breaths (say, 10 seconds max) is likely to have little effect.

Br
 
You now what, lets follow this same level of thinking.

Phosphagen is a key component in energy production. Phosphagen makes the only molecule we can use to create mechanical (movement) energy, Adenosine triphosphate.

Maybe if we increase phosphate consumption we can increase ATP.

Enter my new supplement, Power Guano!

Guano is super rich in phosphagen. 19.99$ per bottle of 200.

Br

ps: Google guano, it really is high in phosphagen and nitrogen.
 
too bad oxygen 4 energy wasn't a sponser here, i'd love to see some of their studies....or atleast hear from some of their athletes
 
ZiR RED said:
Now, because this is a strength training forum, lets talk about factors that influence fatigue and loss of power during resistance training.

This is what has been proposed, based on scientific testing.

Acidosis (low pH) in the tissues. When we exercise at high intensities, high glycolysis rates result in the formation of lactate acid. The hydrogen molecule (H+) disassociates from the lactate and reduces the pH of the muscle cell. As a result, energy production via glycolysis is reduced and cross bridge cycling is slowed. Additionally, when the H+ molecule moves out of the cell into the interstitial space and the blood, it impinges on nerve endings, yielding the "burn" you feel, and may also reduce neural transmission.

Next, inorganic phosphate (Pi). To create movement our muscles break down ATP into ADP, Pi, and energy. This Pi has been shown to interfere with cross bridge cycling and neural transmission. In addition, the production of movement via ATP releases free adenosine (the A in ATP) into the blood stream. This adenosine crosses the blood to brain barrier to signal central fatigue. This is also how caffeine exerts cognitive stimulation by blocking ADO.

Finally, an excessive amount of potassium (hyperkalemia) in the interstitial fluid can cause fatigue. This happens for a few reasons. First, repolarization from an action potential (ie. neural stimulation to contract) results initial movement of K out of the cell. Second, damage to the muscle cell membrane results in K leaking out of the cell. Finally, increased H+ (reduce pH) is associated with increased levels of K.

Not one of these causes of fatigue has anything to do with breathing oxygen.

Even in endurance sports at sea level, the amount of oxygen one breaths in is not a limiting factor. Oxygen saturation of the blood at rest is 95-98%, and this level will drop slightly during endurance exercise to about 92-93% in people without EIH or COPD. Breathing extra O2 will not have much of an effect since increasing temperature and H+ (effects of exercise) result in an increased unloading at muscle tissue.

So what is the limiting factor? One is how much oxygen the blood can carry. The more O2 the blood can carry, the more than can be delivered to muscle cells. This is why EPO is a popular drug amongst cyclists: it increases red blood cell count, thus increasing O2 carrying capacity. Also with delivery is how efficient is the heart. The greater the cardiac output (the more blood pumped per minute) the greater the O2 that will be delivered to the tissues. The final question becomes how well equipped are the muscles to extract the O2 from the blood and carry it into the mitochondria. This is a question of capillary density, myoglobin content, and mitochondrial mass.

No where in this equation is the amount of oxygen breathed in a limiting factor, at least not in healthy subjects exercising at sea level.

And, even if you were exercising at altitude, increasing SaO2 a few percentages for a few breaths (say, 10 seconds max) is likely to have little effect.

Br
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Post like this are the reason I am considering Springfield still ;)
 
Young Gotti said:
too bad oxygen 4 energy wasn't a sponser here, i'd love to see some of their studies....or atleast hear from some of their athletes
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this is why cell tech is so good. endorsed by coleman and cutler! but really, tho. im going to contact oxygen4energy and see if they have any citations/studies to refer me to. its not just the fact that i disagree with this product. its the fact that the science is so cut and dry. i guess after its logged and people start to try it we will see.

its just such an insignificant amount of oxygen in the container in the first place. 4L and it will discharge in 1 minute.... so 4LPM. that is such a low amount of oxygen. especially when 40 liters a minute is considered a high flow device capable of meeting a persons complete respiratory demand. and with this product you are taking one small 0.4 liter puff from it thats going to be diluted to around 50% by the time it hits the alveoli... the effect would be too small to measure with any current method and be back to baseline almost instantly
 
I am to the point where I am not even reading any of this debate anymore. I am completely disregarding all speculation until I get to either see a reputable member's thoughts (and yes, every NTBM rep that I talk to on this forum, I consider them reputable and can trust their word) or try the product myself in the event there is a lack of feedback.
First of all, all scientific reason aside, I just am having a very hard time accepting the fact that a company like NTBM, who has several popular supplements in circulation that work and have user feedback to back Nate's claims, would release a supplement that does not work. It would be a terrible move for them. With this being said, I am not saying this product will or will not work. I am simply stating my skepticism against the skeptics.
Secondly, I have this thing where I refuse to believe anybody until I can prove them right or wrong. When I was a kid, I built a ramp over my road to hit with my huffy bicycle. My friend told me there was no way I would make it, it was purely impossible. I didn't believe him til I tried it. The same friend told me something smelled like sh!t. Once again, I didn't believe him and had to smell it myself to confirm his suspicion.
My last boss at my current job once told me a great way to do something. Naturally I did it my way before believing him.

Just saying, you guys seem to be boggled on why us supplement junkies and "fountain of youth" hunters don't believe in your scientific citations. I just wanted to shed some light on our resistance, from a fellow supp junkie. No matter how much data you guys can lay on the table, we simply do not and will not care. We want solid evidence. We want real time feedback. Scientific reason is obsolete in this forum, and you all knew that already.
Sound dumb? That is too bad lol.
 
Ok fine ill stop debating... can we start a money pool? :) ill start by throwing in $1,000.

We have an amazing research department fully set up with a treadmill and fancy doo-dads to check v02 max and all that snaz at my school. Apparently they publish a lot of studies too. We also have plenty of oxygen supplies. Not sure when the loggers are starting, but 3 weeks till im back on campus.
 
1k buy in for a pool? Count me in. I'll buy ten bottles and secretly run 12 weeks of test and give all the credit to this stuff. Thanks for the money :-p
 
FL3X MAGNUM said:
1k buy in for a pool? Count me in. I'll buy ten bottles and secretly run 12 weeks of test and give all the credit to this stuff. Thanks for the money :-p
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It could always explode the first time you use it, **** happens.

But im talking about it actually working. Guess we will see when people start posting reviews. Cant you already buy it? Surprised nobodys given a review yet. Oh well, im impatient.

Did a quick google search. oxygen4energy is a multilevel marketing scheme. is this real life? Please check it out for yourself.
 
Hmmm. So I could just become an independent distributor and save 49%...
 
FL3X MAGNUM said:
Hmmm. So I could just become an independent distributor and save 49%...
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yea... 10 bucks a bottle normally

i would support this too if i had a 100% markup and had almost no overheads. ****. sorry for all the bad things ive said. i will sell this product to anyone who wants it for only 13 bucks! save money, come to me! :)


but now i understand this entire situation. ive seen so many people get pulled into MLM with **** products and ridiculous claims with no backing just wanting to make their cut of the money. ok enough of this thread. have fun kiddies
 
can't wait to try this stuff......a lot of mma fighters are using these products before and during their fights, a lot of ppl are up in arms because it leads an unfair advantage in energy and staminia
 
T-Bone said:
I have never been interested in any of your products but this does look interesting.
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NONE!?
man the beastdrol is GREAT!! you gotta give that one a go atleast (if you like methyl-masterone)
 
gymrat827 said:
Would we bash one of your products before it came out?? before they were any results from it?? i would guess not......
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I agree with you, this looks liek it could be usfull to some peeps. no need ot **** on it just because you dont know about it and are skeptic.

I havent been dis-satisfied with ANY of NTBM's products or the couple iv used from MrSupps!
so i have no doubt this one will be nice too!
 
MidwestBeast said:
I completely disagree with this.

Are you suggesting that Rick, who has been around here for a decent time and built up a solid rep, is going to lie to all of you?

No. He won't.

The whole "OMG he's a rep, so his word means nothing!" garbage needs to end. I'm not talk about just you, here; I'm talking in general. Yes, I get the skepticism of something used "in-house," but as I've said a million times, the good people, good companies and good products stick around. Those that are not, fade away.

If you want to try it so badly (though I don't see why, based on your observations thus far), it's up for sale with free shipping and a 10% discount.

It will get a chance to be logged by some non-reps. I'll pay for it myself to have someone else try it after I buy a bottle for myself and if I think it's a solid product. If I don't, well then, you won't see me recommending it, nor will you see me paying to send someone else a bottle.

Like I said earlier in the thread (I'm not sure if you saw it or not, since you didn't respond to it), your knowledge certainly makes for good conversation and I agree that everything should be debated. I can't tell you the science behind it because my background is not in anything even remotely related to that. That being said, based on Nate's comments, I certainly think it's worth trying (I'm not saying for all of you, I'm saying for me because I trust Nate).





So, once again, if people want to continue discrediting a product they haven't tried or that hasn't been logged here, yet, go ahead. I will wait to see some logs and wait to try it myself and then give my thoughts--good or bad.
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haters gonna hate man.....
 
RealBigga said:
hahahahahahaha

going the cell-tech route, huh ?
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maybe i'm unsure of your post, because it has no correlation to what i posted

their has been mma articles about fighters in strikeforce using oxygen spray before and during their fights....a lot of ppl in the sport believe it's an unfair advantage
 
Young Gotti said:
maybe i'm unsure of your post, because it has no correlation to what i posted

their has been mma articles about fighters in strikeforce using oxygen spray before and during their fights....a lot of ppl in the sport believe it's an unfair advantage
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a friend of mines fights for strikeforce and actually fought over the weekend, ill ask him .
 
FYI, athletes are very superstitious people. Kobe Bryant wears bout 2 of those Power Balance bands around his wrist. Baseball players piss on there hands to thicken there skin. etc...

anything that gives them a mental edge, placebo or not is worth it to them.
 
The athletic team on Power Balance band's website trumps Oxygen 4 Energy's, and even then derrick rose and blake griffin still wouldnt convince me to wear one of those things.
 
RealBigga said:
The athletic team on Power Balance band's website trumps Oxygen 4 Energy's, and even then derrick rose and blake griffin still wouldnt convince me to wear one of those things.
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for what it's worth, my father has virtigo...gets dizzy spells or got dizzy spells, started wearing one of those bracelets and hasn't had one in over a month
 
Off topic but since every NTBM rep has posted in here, where can i get some friggin transaderm? The formastanzol delivery system made me jizz in my pants b/c of how quickly it dried. And the topical dhea that i made myself is sticky and makes me break out on that area due to the greasyness. So delivar the goods!
 
tnubs said:
Off topic but since every NTBM rep has posted in here, where can i get some friggin transaderm? The formastanzol delivery system made me jizz in my pants b/c of how quickly it dried. And the topical dhea that i made myself is sticky and makes me break out on that area due to the greasyness. So delivar the goods!
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It actually just got back in stock at the store as of today. If you liked Forma, then you would really like Transaderm I'm sure.
 
tnubs said:
Off topic but since every NTBM rep has posted in here, where can i get some friggin transaderm? The formastanzol delivery system made me jizz in my pants b/c of how quickly it dried. And the topical dhea that i made myself is sticky and makes me break out on that area due to the greasyness. So delivar the goods!
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it looks to have come back in stock today....grab it quick tho...who knows how long it will last
 
tnubs said:
Off topic but since every NTBM rep has posted in here, where can i get some friggin transaderm? The formastanzol delivery system made me jizz in my pants b/c of how quickly it dried. And the topical dhea that i made myself is sticky and makes me break out on that area due to the greasyness. So delivar the goods!
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too bad you were knocking Oxy 4 Energy, id give you a bottle
 
I'll log a bottle if you need somebody to log it!:hump: I run the 60m dash all the way up to the 400m dash at a D2 college
 
so having more oxygen in your system doesn't lower red blood cell count like having less oxygen raises red blood cell count?

just wondering....
 
wsaucer said:
I'll log a bottle if you need somebody to log it!:hump: I run the 60m dash all the way up to the 400m dash at a D2 college
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Will, after I get back to KY and get a chance to try this out, myself, I'll try to see about getting you a bottle to log or just bringing one up to you if I think it's decent/does anything beneficial.
 
gymrat827 said:
too bad you were knocking Oxy 4 Energy, id give you a bottle
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hehe, i could get an E cylinder with no effort and keep it in my car pre workout if i thought it would help. but like i said, ive coincidentally gone to the gym directly after using oxygen on several occasions and never noticed a difference. that plus the science is proof enough for me.


Do you all know if there will be a NTBM christmas or new years sale that may apply to the transaderm?
 
needto139 will always save 15%.....if theres a better sale or bigger %, i'm sure we'll be everywhere posting it and letting you know
 
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