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domore

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Lol, that much huh? hahaha. Cistanche would work amazingly with myosynergy...hell it could have even been an ingredient in the formula because it fits so well. Amentoflavone is great in any preworkout stack as it increases both strength and fat loss, a great and rare combination
Yes, sir. I have quite a few of each coming my way to stack with MyoSynergy (after I give it a fair shake by itself).
 

aaronuconn

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I had assumed Cistanche would be better for strength based on the write-ups, and since Amento seems to have other benefits on mood, energy, and fat loss. If Amento is also better for strength, what is Cistanche better for? Or do you just mean Amento would be better acutely as a PWO for strength, and Cistanche would be better for putting on muscle and long-term strength gains? Sorry, but I haven't heard of either of these so trying to plan out how much of each to get and what to expect. In my mind, I am thinking of Cistanche as an alternative anacyclus and Amento as an alternative forskolin. Obviously, that is probably wrong, but I am just comparing the way they come off in their write-ups to products I have already used. Thanks!
Read Coop's write ups and you'll see why, from an acute standpoint, amento is better for strength gains.
 
BCseacow83

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For someone who is using a low dose of selegiline, 5mg oral, would amentoflavone be contraindicated? Anytime I see something that improve mood, as I believe it does, I am always cautious. Thanks.

No matter what I grabbed a bunch of forskolin for me and my girl.
 
tyrub42

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Read Coop's write ups and you'll see why, from an acute standpoint, amento is better for strength gains.
Thanks for the reply, bro! I understand that angle, but just wanted to see if he was saying it would also be better for strength gains over the course of a full cycle, or if he only meant that it would be better acutely. From the write-ups and also from the comparisons to Anabeta, it seemed like Cistanche would be better for real, lasting gains, so I wanted to see if I was way off about that. If you have any insight on that, please let me know. These are both 100% new to me, so all info is appreciated (I have heard the name Amentoflavone thrown around but never researched it at all or even gave it a second thought; never even heard of cistanche before). I am almost thinking these might be great to run together to compare to ABE in terms of energy, fat loss, strength gains, and GDA effects. I know the comparison of amento to forskolin is shaky at best, (different pathways, etc...), but seems like both can aide fat loss and give some strength gains.
 

squirtguns89

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I had assumed Cistanche would be better for strength based on the write-ups, and since Amento seems to have other benefits on mood, energy, and fat loss. If Amento is also better for strength, what is Cistanche better for?

Or do you just mean Amento would be better acutely as a PWO for strength, and Cistanche would be better for putting on muscle and long-term strength gains? Sorry, but I haven't heard of either of these so trying to plan out how much of each to get and what to expect. In my mind, I am thinking of Cistanche as an alternative anacyclus and Amento as an alternative forskolin. Obviously, that is probably wrong, but I am just comparing the way they come off in their write-ups to products I have already used.

Thanks!
In for none smug reply from someone. Assuming/hoping from coop since he's the only rep actually answering any questions. kind of an odd release the way it's been handled imo. I've never seen so many reps blatantly ignore people's questions. Perhaps it's just a hard thing to explain.
 

kissdadookie

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In for none smug reply from someone. Assuming/hoping from coop since he's the only rep actually answering any questions. kind of an odd release the way it's been handled imo. I've never seen so many reps blatantly ignore people's questions. Perhaps it's just a hard thing to explain.
It's to be expected, Cooper is R&D at PES, the other reps are... reps (no offense PES crew!). Lulz.
 
kbayne

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In for none smug reply from someone. Assuming/hoping from coop since he's the only rep actually answering any questions. kind of an odd release the way it's been handled imo. I've never seen so many reps blatantly ignore people's questions. Perhaps it's just a hard thing to explain.
Cooper replied and told everyone what to expect from the two new products. And I'm sure he will come in and answer more questions as he always does. Does everyone need spoon fed everything now days? I understand it's a new product but it's easy to do your own research and find the answers to questions.
 
bolt10

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Sorry if we missed some questions. If there is something beyond the write up or Coopers response that you'd still want answered just ask again and I'll help if I can. :)
 

squirtguns89

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Cooper replied and told everyone what to expect from the two new products. And I'm sure he will come in and answer more questions as he always does. Does everyone need spoon fed everything now days? I understand it's a new product but it's easy to do your own research and find the answers to questions.
Im not complaining about coop. Tyrub asked about subtle functional differences and practical comparisons that I'm interested in and have not been answered. There's not a ton of easy reading to digest on this, there's hardly any/ no products that use these things. I can only assume people like you making all these smug comments probably don't understand it that well either. not to mention what else is a reps job? Lol. I've seen the question "how to dose/difference between erases" questions answered a million times but when a brand new product comes out its spoon feeding. ..ok please go.
 
kbayne

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Im not complaining about coop. Tyrub asked about subtle functional differences and practical comparisons that I'm interested in and have not been answered. There's not a ton of easy reading to digest on this, there's hardly any/ no products that use these things. I can only assume people like you making all these smug comments probably don't understand it that well either. not to mention what else is a reps job? Lol. I've seen the question "how to dose/difference between erases" questions answered a million times but when a brand new product comes out its spoon feeding. ..ok please go.
I never said I was an expert on the new I products/ingredients either. And I wasn't trying to come off as an a-hole or anything. But like someone else stated, Coop is the R&D and he does all the research (as well as Natty) for the products.

And I actually do quite a bit research for new products I am interested in to see if I can find the answer that I am looking for.
 

squirtguns89

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I never said I was an expert on the new I products/ingredients either. And I wasn't trying to come off as an a-hole or anything. But like someone else stated, Coop is the R&D and he does all the research (as well as Natty) for the products.

And I actually do quite a bit research for new products I am interested in to see if I can find the answer that I am looking for.
Fair enough. Didn't mean to jump down your throat either. Probably came off complaining too much, I just get frustrated when the condescending replies outweigh the helpful ones+a lack of sleep+knowing my wallet will be much lighter lol. Well def continue to look up stuff and hope tyrub gets a solid reply. Cheers
 
NattyForLife

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Which of the 2 new releases would benefit me most for cutting/recomp? Im currently taking norco that already has amentflavone!
 
kbayne

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Which of the 2 new releases would benefit me most for cutting/recomp? Im currently taking norco that already has amentflavone!
Amentomax but if you're already taking Norco then you will be good. Throwing in F-95 would be a great choice though, especially at the price it's at now.

CistaMax would be good to throw as well though. Who doesn't want improved endurance and strength while cutting/recomping? Also as stated in the write up on the site, more efficient energy consumption leads to greater fat loss.
 
bolt10

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Which of the 2 new releases would benefit me most for cutting/recomp? Im currently taking norco that already has amentflavone!
If your already doing the full dosage of Norcodrene then I'd go with Cistamax out of the two. Amentoflavone is covered with the Norco. ;)
 
bolt10

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Thanks for the reply, bro! I understand that angle, but just wanted to see if he was saying it would also be better for strength gains over the course of a full cycle, or if he only meant that it would be better acutely. From the write-ups and also from the comparisons to Anabeta, it seemed like Cistanche would be better for real, lasting gains, so I wanted to see if I was way off about that. If you have any insight on that, please let me know. These are both 100% new to me, so all info is appreciated (I have heard the name Amentoflavone thrown around but never researched it at all or even gave it a second thought; never even heard of cistanche before). I am almost thinking these might be great to run together to compare to ABE in terms of energy, fat loss, strength gains, and GDA effects. I know the comparison of amento to forskolin is shaky at best, (different pathways, etc...), but seems like both can aide fat loss and give some strength gains.
Ya you seem to be on the right track. I'm a huge fan of Amentoflavone and it's effects in the pre-workout timeframe are quite noticeable pretty fast.
 

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Just got myself 4 bottles of f-95, 2 bottles of amentomax, and 2 of the cista/agmatine combo $130. Thats a steal especially with no shipping. Excited to try out both the new products will prob save the cistamax for my recomp/lean bulk.
 
NattyForLife

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Anybody know if the cistamax taste horrid if uncapped. Ps. I cant swallow pills, so i uncap them and throw them in some BCAAs!
 
bolt10

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Anybody know if the cistamax taste horrid if uncapped. Ps. I cant swallow pills, so i uncap them and throw them in some BCAAs!
Honestly I have no idea. Maybe coop or natty could chime in. Or EBF since I believe he's mentioned he's used the ingredient in bulk in the past.
 

cbsharpe

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Just got myself 4 bottles of f-95, 2 bottles of amentomax, and 2 of the cista/agmatine combo $130. Thats a steal especially with no shipping. Excited to try out both the new products will prob save the cistamax for my recomp/lean bulk.
"with no shipping"? Hmmm....then how are you gonna get your order bruh? :lol:
 

chedapalooza

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I'm still confused I thought three were getting released!
 
bdcc

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I'm still confused I thought three were getting released!
The third is staggered. We could release them altogether but it meant these two would have been delayed. We figured you guys probably didn't want that. :)
 
Driven2lift

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The third is staggered. We could release them altogether but it meant these two would have been delayed. We figured you guys probably didn't want that. :)
You just want us to be confronted twice with the temptation to stock up on other AS supps as well.

I don't mind. :)
 
bdcc

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You just want us to be confronted twice with the temptation to stock up on other AS supps as well.

I don't mind. :)
lol. We should have released one at a time, each of them coming out on pay day. ;)
 

mr.cooper69

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In for none smug reply from someone. Assuming/hoping from coop since he's the only rep actually answering any questions. kind of an odd release the way it's been handled imo. I've never seen so many reps blatantly ignore people's questions. Perhaps it's just a hard thing to explain.
Sorry, im quite busy myself with an exam on Monday. Don't blame the reps...with analyzed releases, we use niche/novel/unusual ingredients and it's tough for reps to comment on specific nuances after using just one bottle.

amentoflavone is better for acute strength gains. When you use it preworkout, you should notice an increase in strength from the first dose, building up to a max point after 1-2 weeks of use.
 

mr.cooper69

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iPhone is glitching. Cistanche is probably superior in the long run in that when you come off it, the mass and strength gains are there to stay. Conversely, with amentoflavone, the fat loss and improved insulin sensitivity are there to stay.

But I highly recommend adding amentoflavone to your preworkout...you need to experience this at least once. For me at least, it's pretty substantial how much stronger I get in just a session or two. The mechanism is fairly unique and can be found with citations in the product writeup
 

mr.cooper69

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Which of the 2 new releases would benefit me most for cutting/recomp? Im currently taking norco that already has amentflavone!
Alongside norcodrene, I'd pick cistanche. But in any other circumstance, amentoflavone is better for cutting
 

squirtguns89

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Sorry, im quite busy myself with an exam on Monday. Don't blame the reps...with analyzed releases, we use niche/novel/unusual ingredients and it's tough for reps to comment on specific nuances after using just one bottle.

amentoflavone is better for acute strength gains. When you use it preworkout, you should notice an increase in strength from the first dose, building up to a max point after 1-2 weeks of use.
Well it seems fitting I said it's kind of an odd release due to the novel compounds, But luckily odd is good in this case. Didn't mean to dik out anyone I love pes, just having a hell of a time getting functional info on this stuff.

A new thread (or here for that matter) laying out some basics and expanding on some stuff might save you more time in the long run when you get the chance. (And would be greatly appreciated)

Thoughts/questions on both cista/amento for optimal application,in your opinion:

-length of time till saturation

-do they need to be daily dosed once saturated or just workout days.

-dosing, benefits to higher dosing like some have found with anabeta or is it diminishing returns?

-typical cycle lengths (minimum/max).

-any known concerns for running it prolonged periods of time vs benefits of staying on

-things to take with them for Synergistic effects. . •What will grapefruit do in simpleton terms?/is it needed worthwhile.
•I noticed forskolin is synergistic correct, but neither one of them are b-agonists? So something else like alphamine can be added for fat burn synergistic effects talked about in CC1. Or will amenta/forskolin be a potent enough cut stack?

What about with cista? Can't find anything specific for synergy.

-Basic example stacks that work well/or common ones to avoid.
• Cistamax/anabeta. Lean Bulk. or too similar of anabolic effects?
•cistamax/daa/erase. pct
•amentomax/abe/forskolin. recomp
•amentomax/forskolin/alphamine. Cut

could all of those be combined excluding both ab/abe?

I think this and adding to anything along those lines would help a lot of people, but at the very least myself. (When/if you get the chance).
 

mr.cooper69

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Neither of these operate via saturation, but for maximal effects, I'd say 2 weeks for amentoflavone and 3-4 weeks for cistanche (similar to anabeta).

Dosing depends on your goal. I think cistanche should always be dosed every day. But for amentoflavone, it can be dosed preworkout only for strength, and daily for fat loss.

Amentoflavone can probably be run for up to 12 weeks if you use it on training days only, otherwise 8 weeks. 8 weeks for cistanche too, then cycle off and repeat. 4 weeks minimum for both IMO.

The only longterm effects noted with both compounds are positive in nature. Health and longevity with cistanche and improved blood glucose control with amentoflavone. I think it's just good practice to cycle anything you use to keep the effects from diminishing with time.

Lots of questions towards the end of your post, but I'll keep it brief.

Synergy:

Cistanche: mTOR stimulators/anabolics, so we're talking anabeta, leucine, x-gels, myosynergy, things along those lines. May work exceptionally well with nitrates if taken preworkout.

Amentoflavone: caffeine + a2 antagonists + b2-agonists, so we're talking alphamine, eca stack, etc. It should also go well with cholinergics such as alphamine again, or Focus XT.
 

chedapalooza

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Neither of these operate via saturation, but for maximal effects, I'd say 2 weeks for amentoflavone and 3-4 weeks for cistanche (similar to anabeta).

Dosing depends on your goal. I think cistanche should always be dosed every day. But for amentoflavone, it can be dosed preworkout only for strength, and daily for fat loss.

Amentoflavone can probably be run for up to 12 weeks if you use it on training days only, otherwise 8 weeks. 8 weeks for cistanche too, then cycle off and repeat. 4 weeks minimum for both IMO.

The only longterm effects noted with both compounds are positive in nature. Health and longevity with cistanche and improved blood glucose control with amentoflavone. I think it's just good practice to cycle anything you use to keep the effects from diminishing with time.

Lots of questions towards the end of your post, but I'll keep it brief.

Synergy:

Cistanche: mTOR stimulators/anabolics, so we're talking anabeta, leucine, x-gels, myosynergy, things along those lines. May work exceptionally well with nitrates if taken preworkout.

Amentoflavone: caffeine + a2 antagonists + b2-agonists, so we're talking alphamine, eca stack, etc. It should also go well with cholinergics such as alphamine again, or Focus XT.
Awesome post coop thanks
 
TheMovement

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Cant login to order..........ugh
 
CJ_Xfit89

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I bought 4 of each. let's see if we can get past my plateau for both fat loss and strength.
 
NattyForLife

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After i finish my norco and at2 and forskolin run gonna jump to maintenance calories, and im gonna throw in cistamax and alphamax. Should be a decent stack!
 
tyrub42

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Are you guys not doing international shipping? I just tried to order a bunch of stuff to Taiwan, but it said "no quotes are available for this order at this time." Kinda bummed, but hoping it's just a glitch.
 
CJ_Xfit89

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Are you guys not doing international shipping? I just tried to order a bunch of stuff to Taiwan, but it said "no quotes are available for this order at this time." Kinda bummed, but hoping it's just a glitch.
$20 me thinks. PM Josh (nattydisaster)
 
Drakee

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What's the max dose on amentoflavone a day?

I bought a good amount :)
 
Auslifter

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should sell it on the pes site so we can do orders all in one... lool
 
bolt10

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What's the max dose on amentoflavone a day? I bought a good amount :)
I'd just follow label instructions. No need to dose above that.
 

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