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New Primordial Performance Products

Ask Mr. Classy above what SD is like. He seemed to enjoy it.

the problems come from the "i need to get too big too fast => too much right now" syndrome,
and that gets people one of two things:
1) sick
2) a month of new untested yet to be independently logged dhea for 160bux.

run it at low doses for longer periods.
sd is an angel.
 
I love superdrol. I think it is a wonderful steroid, with many benifits & risks. but, i've never experienced anything negative from superdrol that wasn't temporary.

word.

hepatotoxicity is very over rated in my and others opinions, but it's a key selling point in the andro series, as it's the only side their compounds wont give you, all the other typical sides (positive & negative) from androgens, one can and should expect.

word word.
:ugh2::sigh1:
 
I love superdrol. I think it is a wonderful steroid, with many benifits & risks. but, i've never experienced anything negative from superdrol that wasn't temporary.

hepatotoxicity is very over rated in my and others opinions, but it's a key selling point in the andro series, as it's the only side their compounds wont give you, all the other typical sides (positive & negative) from androgens, one can and should expect.

I never stated that I am against Superdrol. I am sitting on a bottle of SD-LV myself. However the comparison of pricing is mind numbing. With 12k I can build a Turbocharged gutted rice rocket that will most likely out pace a stock camaro, doesn't mean I am going to suggest it. Superdrol is toxic, claiming that overrated is a matter of how much you appreciate your body. You will notice many of the older guys who have purchased AndroMass said this is what they were waiting for, a legal means of avoiding Methyls for serious mass gains, and that is what was offered. Why is this popular with that age group, because it is usually the point in which people tend to realize, you are only given one body.

As for the secondary comment, as with any hormonal product, a user should do proper research and know of any inherent risk they expose themselves to.
 
this is quoted in the abstract. when you have time, you should read the entire study (as I just did.)

also, the third study has the same purpose as the second study, both are on a totally different subject than the first. the first study is as close to the subject at hand that I can find.

I have not been able to find any studies that support the quote posted from wiki. this explains why there is no reference to a data based source.

also, the last study is done using anavar (oxandrolone) this a different steroid than plain dht, still an androgen, but it will have different effects on a cellular level than plain dht d/t the changes in the chemical structure.

at least though, the 3rd study (for studying fat loss in men) uses much better testing methods than the second one from germany (everythings better in usa)

but like the second one, good read if your curious on the fat loss effects of anavar in 50 y/o men, but nothing for the subject of effects on the cellular level of dht & lipid metabolism.

last thing, in bold, please dont excuse my words typed on a screen for me thinking I am an expert, I am far from it. but I am more knowledgable than most, but not an expert, and quite far from it. I will continue this conversation with those much more knowledgable than I and will def follow up with that I learn.

but I do thank you for trying to take the time to post studies for us. everyone should (postive) rep bigblack for the effort. even if he didn't take the time to actually read the studies. he tried.

This is dripping with rhetorical backhanded remarks. We know you're not an expert Jbry, we just need to look at your post history to figure that one out.
 
I'm one of the "older guys" heretostudy was referring to. I'm fortunate enough to have some disposable income to spend on supps, so I am considering the Androseries. [I actually had my PP shopping cart loaded with 3 andromass and 3 androhard, expecting to get the 30% discount for 6 bottles, but it turns out that only applies to 6 bottles of the same product. So I'm weighing my options.]
Having run many SD cycles, I love the stuff. I ONLY run short pulse (2 or 3 days/week), long duration (15-20 weeks) cycles. SD works perfect for this. Liver and lipid values always take a minor hit, but always recover quickly. My biggest problem with Super is the delayed gyno. I get it every time (a month or two after PCT), and I remove it everytime with simple ATD.
My interest in the Androseries is for more of a self-administered HRT type usage. But that's where it gets confusing. Andromass would seem to be the ideal product, as it supposedly converts to test at a high rate. But they seem to recommend Androhard (which converts to DHT) for this usage. That's why I was hoping to buy 3 of each and stack them. But since I can't get the 30% discount like that, I'm trying to figure out which way to go. Any suggestions?
 
I'm one of the "older guys" heretostudy was referring to. I'm fortunate enough to have some disposable income to spend on supps, so I am considering the Androseries. [I actually had my PP shopping cart loaded with 3 andromass and 3 androhard, expecting to get the 30% discount for 6 bottles, but it turns out that only applies to 6 bottles of the same product. So I'm weighing my options.]
Having run many SD cycles, I love the stuff. I ONLY run short pulse (2 or 3 days/week), long duration (15-20 weeks) cycles. SD works perfect for this. Liver and lipid values always take a minor hit, but always recover quickly. My biggest problem with Super is the delayed gyno. I get it every time (a month or two after PCT), and I remove it everytime with simple ATD.
My interest in the Androseries is for more of a self-administered HRT type usage. But that's where it gets confusing. Andromass would seem to be the ideal product, as it supposedly converts to test at a high rate. But they seem to recommend Androhard (which converts to DHT) for this usage. That's why I was hoping to buy 3 of each and stack them. But since I can't get the 30% discount like that, I'm trying to figure out which way to go. Any suggestions?

real test? get rid of the guess work?

that sorta defeats the whole legal portion of it (w/out a script)
 
I'm one of the "older guys" heretostudy was referring to. I'm fortunate enough to have some disposable income to spend on supps, so I am considering the Androseries. [I actually had my PP shopping cart loaded with 3 andromass and 3 androhard, expecting to get the 30% discount for 6 bottles, but it turns out that only applies to 6 bottles of the same product. So I'm weighing my options.]
Having run many SD cycles, I love the stuff. I ONLY run short pulse (2 or 3 days/week), long duration (15-20 weeks) cycles. SD works perfect for this. Liver and lipid values always take a minor hit, but always recover quickly. My biggest problem with Super is the delayed gyno. I get it every time (a month or two after PCT), and I remove it everytime with simple ATD.
My interest in the Androseries is for more of a self-administered HRT type usage. But that's where it gets confusing. Andromass would seem to be the ideal product, as it supposedly converts to test at a high rate. But they seem to recommend Androhard (which converts to DHT) for this usage. That's why I was hoping to buy 3 of each and stack them. But since I can't get the 30% discount like that, I'm trying to figure out which way to go. Any suggestions?

ImJ2x, I would recommend hitting up the PrimordialPerformance.com forums and posing the question to Eric directly. He would significantly more qualified to discuss HRT possibilities and I don't want to steer you wrong.
 
They'll probably have the usual excuses: not controlled, no dosages listed, no support supps used, small sample size, etc.

Saying that hepatoxicity is overrated is a tad arrogant as their are a myriad of factors that play into this.
 
Frankly, I am sick of the little bra & panty tickle fight between JBry and the PP reps, HTS in particular. Yes, I realize he can come across either abrasive or arrogant, but when a poster posts doubts or speculation about a product based on some anecdotal evidence of the base compounds etc I feel instead of the "skirt" comments or what not, maybe HTS could take the "higher" Rep road and address it with a little more info or objectiveness, rather than personal distaste for the guy. People paying this much for the product or potential customers should be able to voice concerns, and some have, and the reps have handled it professionally, but HTS has seemingly decided to get pitty-patty with Jbry instead of being a true "rep" for PP. Personally, i would rather see the doubters post, supporting their doubts with real info, and have it addressed in the same fashion. I dont care about the doubters saying" its too damn much money" and having those issues addressed, as much as to the issues of efficacy. Just my observation, but to those of us who read these threads for info, and to see some express doubt or concerns, and have them tackled head-on by the reps, its gotten old watching the hair-pulling contest between the 2 said parties.
 
I never stated that I am against Superdrol. I am sitting on a bottle of SD-LV myself. However the comparison of pricing is mind numbing. With 12k I can build a Turbocharged gutted rice rocket that will most likely out pace a stock camaro, doesn't mean I am going to suggest it. Superdrol is toxic, claiming that overrated is a matter of how much you appreciate your body. You will notice many of the older guys who have purchased AndroMass said this is what they were waiting for, a legal means of avoiding Methyls for serious mass gains, and that is what was offered. Why is this popular with that age group, because it is usually the point in which people tend to realize, you are only given one body.

As for the secondary comment, as with any hormonal product, a user should do proper research and know of any inherent risk they expose themselves to.

I can agree with that. uh oh, look outside, make sure the world isn't ending, jbry & hts agree on something! :aargh:
 
For those who consider Superdrol toxicity overrated:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

..

(patiently awaits excuses and mention that it resolved)

I've got even more studies in my own collection (sent to me from henry v) about how toxic methydrostanolone can be.

there is no denying it can kill you via destroying your liver. too many cases to even try to argue that point.

but I can only speak for me, i've never (so far) had a problem with it. and im sure there are others as well, but I can also agree there are probably more people it is a danger too and not worth the risk, than not.

all of my messing with pp aside, (cause I really dont care, they shouldn't even respond to me, im not going to be a customer, so no need to be nice, or even care about me) before the andro series came along, I have stated you have to pay a price for everything.

if you want safety, & effectiveness, it's going to cost $$$

if you want effectiveness in spite of safety, it's going to cost your health.

you have to pay to play.

The main reason I stopped being a rep is so I could basically say what ever I want and not have to worry about making my boss look bad.

So now, I say w/e comes to mind (some editing is involved) and because I'm my boss, I only make myself look bad.

some like it, some dont. I just enjoy myself. I will try to tone it down for the users that it is bothering.
 
Andro Mass seems like something I'd love to try, but I'll wait till I can get it for $40.

when the clones come out, the price will drop for sure...i hope so too

right now id take the plunge, but it better be strong stuff, then i can justify the cost....id much rather put an oral test compound into my body than some crude methyl, regardless if its 40$ vs $200

i know if i was still a student id be swaying back n forth tho
 
Frankly, I am sick of the little bra & panty tickle fight between JBry and the PP reps, HTS in particular. Yes, I realize he can come across either abrasive or arrogant, but when a poster posts doubts or speculation about a product based on some anecdotal evidence of the base compounds etc I feel instead of the "skirt" comments or what not, maybe HTS could take the "higher" Rep road and address it with a little more info or objectiveness, rather than personal distaste for the guy. People paying this much for the product or potential customers should be able to voice concerns, and some have, and the reps have handled it professionally, but HTS has seemingly decided to get pitty-patty with Jbry instead of being a true "rep" for PP. Personally, i would rather see the doubters post, supporting their doubts with real info, and have it addressed in the same fashion. I dont care about the doubters saying" its too damn much money" and having those issues addressed, as much as to the issues of efficacy. Just my observation, but to those of us who read these threads for info, and to see some express doubt or concerns, and have them tackled head-on by the reps, its gotten old watching the hair-pulling contest between the 2 said parties.

I have no issues with doubters, in fact, I have told many who were genuinely doubting that they may have reason to, they are pretty large claims. Unfortunately, you see the picture in the threads you choose to follow. Jbry has no interest in the product, other than tracking down all of our threads and attempting to dissuade any potential interest. Threads started with negative information, and when the information is reversed, the thread gets deleted. This isn't just on this forum either, mind you. I have patience for people who doubt products (I doubt numerous claims amongst the industry), I do have no patience for somebody who does it for the mere satisfaction of being a thorn in my side, or subjecting our customers to nonsense.

I can agree with that. uh oh, look outside, make sure the world isn't ending, jbry & hts agree on something! :aargh:

Occasionally, hell freezes over. Today, I think it started snowing. :lol:

I've got even more studies in my own collection (sent to me from henry v) about how toxic methydrostanolone can be.

there is no denying it can kill you via destroying your liver. too many cases to even try to argue that point.

Yep. And even with support supplements, you are gambling with an organ. Believe me, I understand the risk, and I accept it. You have run methyls, I have run methyls, I will be running a methyl with AndroMass (OT). It exists, and we come to accept it, To some the risk is worth it, but it still shouldn't be ignored.
 
I've got even more studies in my own collection (sent to me from henry v) about how toxic methydrostanolone can be.

there is no denying it can kill you via destroying your liver. too many cases to even try to argue that point.

but I can only speak for me, i've never (so far) had a problem with it. and im sure there are others as well, but I can also agree there are probably more people it is a danger too and not worth the risk, than not.

all of my messing with pp aside, (cause I really dont care, they shouldn't even respond to me, im not going to be a customer, so no need to be nice, or even care about me) before the andro series came along, I have stated you have to pay a price for everything.

if you want safety, & effectiveness, it's going to cost $$$

if you want effectiveness in spite of safety, it's going to cost your health.

you have to pay to play.

The main reason I stopped being a rep is so I could basically say what ever I want and not have to worry about making my boss look bad.

So now, I say w/e comes to mind (some editing is involved) and because I'm my boss, I only make myself look bad.

some like it, some dont. I just enjoy myself. I will try to tone it down for the users that it is bothering.

I respect that. I think opposing view points is what makes the forums lively and interesting. Maybe frustrating at times, but its entertainment for everyone else haha.

And about superdrol, I'll be the first to say that I absolutely loved SD. Gains were incredible, strength was great, and I legit felt like God in the alphaness department. BUT, by the end of my 4 weeks, I was really starting to just feel like poisoned. Wasn't anything specific like lethargy or sickness, but just an overall like hmm I don't feel healthy at all right now. My gains seemed to stop in week 4 anyway around the time when I started feeling ****ty so next time i'm keeping it to 3 weeks. I've still got about 20 caps of beastdrol in one bottle and a brand new bottle of beastdrol waiting :)

I really think if the androseries delivers what it claims, it will be worth the money. For people working steady jobs, a couple extra hundred is worth it to stay healthier. For 18 year olds who shouldn't be interested in steroids, yes a bottle of M-Drol for 20 bucks is going to look a lot better. It all comes down to if staying healthier/legal is worth it to you.
 
I am wondering how suppressive these new compounds will be. If andromass is as potent as they say, i.e. same as 430 some mg of test e, you would think a SERM would be needed post cycle. I'm pretty sure those who utilize test e do not use an OTC PCT.
 
I am wondering how suppressive these new compounds will be. If andromass is as potent as they say, i.e. same as 430 some mg of test e, you would think a SERM would be needed post cycle. I'm pretty sure those who utilize test e do not use an OTC PCT.

Yea anyone running AndroMass should definitely incorporate a SERM into PCT. SERMs are soo easy to get. I don't see why anyone should ever take a risk and run a straight OTC PCT for ANY cycle. Nolva and Clomid are cheap as hell anyway.
 
I posted three studies, I don't have time to search the internet for this. Schwell seems pretty interested, he should look up some :privateeye:



Testosterone supplementation in men decreases fat mass; however, the mechanisms by which it inhibits fat mass are unknown. We hypothesized that testosterone inhibits adipogenic differentiation of preadipocytes by activation of androgen receptor (AR)/ß-catenin interaction and subsequent translocation of this complex to the nucleus thereby bypassing canonical Wnt signaling.

Activated the androgen receptor, I can assume they are talking about inside the fat cells?

Yes. BBB, you are correct in your previous statement, androgens do have a direct effect on fat loss by binding the AR in adipose tissue. The effect is mild, as there aren't many ARs in fat, but it's there.

Ever wonder why trenbolone is considered the only AAS that directly burns fat?
 
well i do not disagree about SD being toxic- that is the only steroid to date that i quit my cycle early because of the way it made me feel- poisoned

i do however consider hepatoxicity second to cardiovascular side effects ie plaque cholesterol BP

why- because the liver is TOUGH and it regenerates itself almost right off the bat. You take guys who have been drinking for 30 years, and they stop drinking- their liver is fine withing 6-10 months or so

1 month of sd at 20-30mgs isnt going to kill anyone

however longterm use of AAS will result in HIGH plaque and other issues related to it


these are my ideas-im sure there are studies out there that back some of them up-maybe all of them, maybe not, but i watch my cardio issues first and foremost
 
Yes. BBB, you are correct in your previous statement, androgens do have a direct effect on fat loss by binding the AR in adipose tissue. The effect is mild, as there aren't many ARs in fat, but it's there.

Ever wonder why trenbolone is considered the only AAS that directly burns fat?

People don't realize that most AAS are far more anabolic than they are androgenic so the fat burning effects are minimal at best. This is why, as you stated, trenbolone is so potent at burning fat. Same with masteron, which is damn near as close to DHT as one can get.
 
Back to original topic. Sounds like it might be a good product, but a way too flipping expensive...
...betcha it won't be long before NTBM comes up with a clone called something like
"badass3/4tonmonstrabol" for a fraction of PP's price.
 
well i do not disagree about SD being toxic- that is the only steroid to date that i quit my cycle early because of the way it made me feel- poisoned

i do however consider hepatoxicity second to cardiovascular side effects ie plaque cholesterol BP

why- because the liver is TOUGH and it regenerates itself almost right off the bat. You take guys who have been drinking for 30 years, and they stop drinking- their liver is fine withing 6-10 months or so

1 month of sd at 20-30mgs isnt going to kill anyone

however longterm use of AAS will result in HIGH plaque and other issues related to it


these are my ideas-im sure there are studies out there that back some of them up-maybe all of them, maybe not, but i watch my cardio issues first and foremost

As long as people are smart it won't do much. But the people that are retarded always end up getting their hands on sd... lol
 
As long as people are smart it won't do much. But the people that are retarded always end up getting their hands on sd... lol
That's where Darwin comes into play, doesn't it? :)
You can't fix stupid.
 
Well, I'm not rich but I do have money to blow so I got a bottle of Andromass. I'm leaning towards jbry on this being over-hyped but I am going to log it right when I get it and hopefully it performs how they say it will. If it is like SD or 500mg of test then I will be a happy camper, and bow to PP for there win. I don't mind spending $150 for a cycle of SD results and not have to worry about bad ****, and if its true then I will probably buy more. Now if it performs like that god awful trifecta stack BS then you will definitely see my flaming everywhere.
 
Cool, I will be keeping an eye for your log.
 
Concerning Superdrol and liver toxicity, are there any PubMed studies available that show the users dosages and cycle duration? The information seems a bit inconclusive considering there are a variety of unknown factors not being presented (e.g. drinking alcohol on-cycle, etc.).
 
Concerning Superdrol and liver toxicity, are there any PubMed studies available that show the users dosages and cycle duration? The information seems a bit inconclusive considering there are a variety of unknown factors not being presented (e.g. drinking alcohol on-cycle, etc.).

I'm sure there is abuse, however there is a member of this board who took it at a recommended/typical dose of 30mgs I believe and developed serious issues to include jaundice. There are also those like myself, supersoldier, and others who have pushed the envelope and are fine.
 
well i do not disagree about SD being toxic- that is the only steroid to date that i quit my cycle early because of the way it made me feel- poisoned

i do however consider hepatoxicity second to cardiovascular side effects ie plaque cholesterol BP

why- because the liver is TOUGH and it regenerates itself almost right off the bat. You take guys who have been drinking for 30 years, and they stop drinking- their liver is fine withing 6-10 months or so

1 month of sd at 20-30mgs isnt going to kill anyone

however longterm use of AAS will result in HIGH plaque and other issues related to it


these are my ideas-im sure there are studies out there that back some of them up-maybe all of them, maybe not, but i watch my cardio issues first and foremost

+1. I got some bloodwork done recently and my lipids aren't perfect so I delayed my cycle until its perfect. You're heart is nothing to play with.
 
well i do not disagree about SD being toxic- that is the only steroid to date that i quit my cycle early because of the way it made me feel- poisoned

i do however consider hepatoxicity second to cardiovascular side effects ie plaque cholesterol BP

why- because the liver is TOUGH and it regenerates itself almost right off the bat. You take guys who have been drinking for 30 years, and they stop drinking- their liver is fine withing 6-10 months or so

1 month of sd at 20-30mgs isnt going to kill anyone

however longterm use of AAS will result in HIGH plaque and other issues related to it


these are my ideas-im sure there are studies out there that back some of them up-maybe all of them, maybe not, but i watch my cardio issues first and foremost
I would have to say Schwell the cardiovascular risks are the overlooked issue imo. And longterm use aside what do you suppose the short term risks really are? Inflammation/hardening of arterial walls, low hdl, high ldl, possible bp issues etc. And lets say we add in past medical history, genetics?
 
I'm sure there is abuse, however there is a member of this board who took it at a recommended/typical dose of 30mgs I believe and developed serious issues to include jaundice. There are also those like myself, supersoldier, and others who have pushed the envelope and are fine.

Hey Ryan, do you by any chance have a link to that thread? I did a quick search and couldn't find it...

Also, I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but I'm assuming AndroMass will still require some form of on-cycle support, correct? I understand liver toxicity may not be an issue, but what about blood pressure, etc.?
 
Hey Ryan, do you by any chance have a link to that thread? I did a quick search and couldn't find it...

Also, I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but I'm assuming AndroMass will still require some form of on-cycle support, correct? I understand liver toxicity may not be an issue, but what about blood pressure, etc.?

T-Bone was the member, not sure if he logged it here or not. I recall him posting about it though. Hit him up with a PM.

As far as sides, I will say users should expect the normal issues with injectable hormones, i.e. bp. Cholesterol is still a concern, but certainly not the extent of methylated orals. Toco-8 and some liquid Hawthorne Berry and you are set imo.
 
T-Bone was the member, not sure if he logged it here or not. I recall him posting about it though. Hit him up with a PM.

As far as sides, I will say users should expect the normal issues with injectable hormones, i.e. bp. Cholesterol is still a concern, but certainly not the extent of methylated orals. Toco-8 and some liquid Hawthorne Berry and you are set imo.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, AndroMass is essentially capable of producing Superdrol-like gains AND Superdrol-like sides (minus the liver toxicity)?

EDIT: I found this comment from T-Bone:

I'm pretty sure I used 20mg and experimented with 30 for a few days, but mostly stayed at 20. I stoped just short of completing a 6th week. PCT was Nolva, but I didn't complete it. I was told by my doctor to stop taking everything. Now again, its hard to remember the time period of when I exactly stopped but I know the cycle didn't last more than 5 and a half weeks...

Dosage aside, isn't 5 1/2-6 weeks of Superdrol a bit much?
 
They'll probably have the usual excuses: not controlled, no dosages listed, no support supps used, small sample size, etc.

Saying that hepatoxicity is overrated is a tad arrogant as their are a myriad of factors that play into this.

Oh man, Rodja, how accurate you can be...

Concerning Superdrol and liver toxicity, are there any PubMed studies available that show the users dosages and cycle duration? The information seems a bit inconclusive considering there are a variety of unknown factors not being presented (e.g. drinking alcohol on-cycle, etc.).
 
Ryansm- yes

and i must say my current cycle is not smart- but im watching them with bloods


and pretty much kicking gear for the next 3 years
 
For those who consider Superdrol toxicity overrated:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

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..

(patiently awaits excuses and mention that it resolved)
They probably dosed too high, neglected liver-protection supps, and maybe even consumed alcohol on-cycle. And still all cases resolved. [You didn't see that coming, did you, Mr. Smartypants?]
 
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