Molding The Dough with Compound 20 (Beta Test)

[MidwestBeast]

Well, your IC release looks like $35 for one bottle ("half off MSRP") and nothing else.

I'll be waiting to see how the retail version holds up for people before doing anything with it. I only read the first paragraph on the writeup, which is interesting.

 

[Sourdough]

The IC release and writeup is out!

I must say it doesn't surprise me one bit and is completely logical in my experience and the knowledge I have regarding adrenergic receptors...

Especially the reason why I have been going hypo... If this is activating β-adrenergic receptors then the pancreas is FULL of those and this will certainly have an effect on them causing an increase in insulin secretion.... so there's proof right there its doing what they say...

So while some of the talk in the writeup would be great to see backed by some studies, know the half life of these compounds and the entire thing could do without Jacobs goofy over the top marketing hype... Im a believer...

I just wish I could get more then one bottle at that price, whack...

 

[MidwestBeast]

...and the entire thing could do without Jacobs goofy over the top marketing hype... Im a believer...

I just wish I could get more then one bottle at that price, whack...

Agreed on both counts. The use of the word "homie" wasn't one I'd go with and the font-style they go with has always been a little less than professional (just my opinion, though).

As for cost, Pink Magic came out retailing at like 90 or something like that and it's consistently around $45, now. I won't be rushing out to buy one bottle of this for $35. Even if they did 2 bottle limit at $60, I'd feel somewhat inclined.

 

[Sourdough]

Well, your IC release looks like $35 for one bottle ("half off MSRP") and nothing else.

I'll be waiting to see how the retail version holds up for people before doing anything with it. I only read the first paragraph on the writeup, which is interesting.

baa you beat me to it...

While Im sure MSRP will stick at a store like GNC online retailers will most likely have some decent sale prices... so you shouldnt be too bad off waiting for logs on the retail version (which is smart but sad that we have to worry bout companies truly following up GREAT beta tests with the exact same product mass produced and actually sold for money)

Im still def going to snag a bottle at that low a price though if my check comes soon enough... and my bills arent already taking it all

 

[Sourdough]

Agreed on both counts. The use of the word "homie" wasn't one I'd go with and the font-style they go with has always been a little less than professional (just my opinion, though).

As for cost, Pink Magic came out retailing at like 90 or something like that and it's consistently around $45, now. I won't be rushing out to buy one bottle of this for $35. Even if they did 2 bottle limit at $60, I'd feel somewhat inclined.

HAHA you did it again!!!!

 

[MidwestBeast]

HAHA you did it again!!!!

:sasmokin:

 

[Sourdough]

HOLY CRAP, IT PAYS TO READ THE CITATIONS!!!

Hey... who was it that suggested this sounded like it may contain Ursolic Acid????

WELLL... of course USPL with their fancy schmancy development of trying to now confuse the consumer and competitors as to what is actually in their products (if you remember some of their ingredient lists have changed multiple times while the actual ingredients have not, powerful comes to mind) didnt come out right and say that there was usrolic acid... BUT they mentioned triterpenoid's.. I was like... where have I heard that term before.. .so I checked the citation in reference to this 3rd ingredient in C20 (citation 4 on the IC writeup for those who are interested)

Look what I found...

Kunkel SD, Suneja M, Ebert SM, et al. mRNA expression signatures of human skeletal muscle atrophy identify a natural compound that increases muscle mass. Cell Metab. 2011 Jun 8;13(6):627-638

Cell Metabolism, Volume 13, Issue 6, 627-638, 8 June 2011
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
10.1016/j.cmet.2011.03.020


Authors

Steven D. Kunkel, Manish Suneja, Scott M. Ebert, Kale S. Bongers, Daniel K. Fox, Sharon E. Malmberg, Fariborz Alipour, Richard K. Shields, Christopher M. Adams

See Affiliations

• Highlights
• We determined mRNA expression signatures of skeletal muscle atrophy in humans
• Muscle atrophy signatures negatively correlated with the signature of ursolic acid
• Ursolic acid reduced muscle atrophy and induced muscle hypertrophy in mice
• Although ursolic acid increased skeletal muscle mass, it reduced adiposity

Summary

Skeletal muscle atrophy is a common and debilitating condition that lacks a pharmacologic therapy. To develop a potential therapy, we identified 63 mRNAs that were regulated by fasting in both human and mouse muscle, and 29 mRNAs that were regulated by both fasting and spinal cord injury in human muscle. We used these two unbiased mRNA expression signatures of muscle atrophy to query the Connectivity Map, which singled out ursolic acid as a compound whose signature was opposite to those of atrophy-inducing stresses. A natural compound enriched in apples, ursolic acid reduced muscle atrophy and stimulated muscle hypertrophy in mice. It did so by enhancing skeletal muscle insulin/IGF-I signaling and inhibiting atrophy-associated skeletal muscle mRNA expression. Importantly, ursolic acid's effects on muscle were accompanied by reductions in adiposity, fasting blood glucose, and plasma cholesterol and triglycerides. These findings identify a potential therapy for muscle atrophy and perhaps other metabolic diseases.

 

[Tomahawk88]

It looks like I will be waiting on the C-20. Just wait till stores online get it.

 

[mattrag]

Hey... who was it that suggested this sounded like it may contain Ursolic Acid????

WELLL... of course USPL with their fancy schmancy development of trying to now confuse the consumer and competitors as to what is actually in their products (if you remember some of their ingredient lists have changed multiple times while the actual ingredients have not, powerful comes to mind) didnt come out right and say that there was usrolic acid... BUT they mentioned triterpenoid's.. I was like... where have I heard that term before.. .so I checked the citation in reference to this 3rd ingredient in C20 (citation 4 on the IC writeup for those who are interested)

Look what I found...

I believe I mentioned that it might be that with some agmatine lol.

I'm buying one. I think. I have to evaluate the funds.

 

[SweetLou321]

Try fixing your deadlift form, also just use a mixed grip or hook grip for your heavy sets.

 

[Sourdough]

Try fixing your deadlift form, also just use a mixed grip or hook grip for your heavy sets.

In which way do you suggest adjusting my form? that was the whole point in posting the vids, to get critiqued, so saying just fix it isnt too helpful, lol.

I think we just discussed the grip issues on this page, maybe the last one, but since the last vid was posted... I dont want to create symmetry issues using a mixed grip and cant properly perform a hook grip with my hand proportions... chalk is what Im going to try, if allowed at my gym, to improve grip for now as well as figuring out some grip specific strengthening exercises... past that point will be straps.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Hey Dough...USPS coming your way.

 

[Sourdough]

Hey Dough...USPS coming your way.

Saweeet! Thanks again my man!

 

[SuppJunkie]

So it is a fact that C20 contains Ursobolic? Also, is there agmatine in it. I am currently using E-Pharm's Ursobolic and have been interested in getting Agmatine powder, but hey, if C20 contains them both maybe i will give them a shot..SJ

 

[masonmarin18]

In which way do you suggest adjusting my form? that was the whole point in posting the vids, to get critiqued, so saying just fix it isnt too helpful, lol.

I think we just discussed the grip issues on this page, maybe the last one, but since the last vid was posted... I dont want to create symmetry issues using a mixed grip and cant properly perform a hook grip with my hand proportions... chalk is what Im going to try, if allowed at my gym, to improve grip for now as well as figuring out some grip specific strengthening exercises... past that point will be straps.

If they don't allow chalk there is also a thing called Liquidgrip. I haven't tried it yet, but my buddy just gave me his and said it helped him gain alot of forearm strength and helped his grip overall. I'll be trying this on my back days

 

[mattrag]

So it is a fact that C20 contains Ursobolic? Also, is there agmatine in it. I am currently using E-Pharm's Ursobolic and have been interested in getting Agmatine powder, but hey, if C20 contains them both maybe i will give them a shot..SJ

Im thinking they are related in a way. But dont know for sure. One thing I do know though.. If I could stack this with prime... for cheaper Id do it... And have one hell of a bulk.

 

[SweetLou321]

In which way do you suggest adjusting my form? that was the whole point in posting the vids, to get critiqued, so saying just fix it isnt too helpful, lol.

I think we just discussed the grip issues on this page, maybe the last one, but since the last vid was posted... I dont want to create symmetry issues using a mixed grip and cant properly perform a hook grip with my hand proportions... chalk is what Im going to try, if allowed at my gym, to improve grip for now as well as figuring out some grip specific strengthening exercises... past that point will be straps.

Im sure you can preform a hook grip if lil short oly lifters can. Get a good pair of wrist wraps (not straps, like the ones powerlifters use for bench), I personally have titans titanium 24in (mid) wraps. You wraps them so they are cast like and you hands can barly open. Then you chalk up...a lot, then you dig your palm as hard as you can on the bar, wrap you thumbs under the bar and try to get your middle and pointer fingers around your thumb as much as possible. The pain will be huge, itll take some time to get use to it. Also getting some plaster for your thumbs will help the thumb pain greatly. I personally use a hook grip.

Now your form, your barly have an arch in your back. When you pull your lats/traps are loose, shoulders appear to be infront of the bar, and your hips rise much faster then your shoulders. The deadlift is a HIP dominate movement not a BACK dominate movement. So you need to put more pressure on your hams and glutes and use less lower back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nRRlk6264I&feature=related

 

[SweetLou321]

If they don't allow chalk there is also a thing called Liquidgrip. I haven't tried it yet, but my buddy just gave me his and said it helped him gain alot of forearm strength and helped his grip overall. I'll be trying this on my back days

Itll keep your hands dry, I use it before I go to regular chalk. Regular chalk will always be the best, this is not even close to a replacement...

 

[masonmarin18]

Itll keep your hands dry, I use it before I go to regular chalk. Regular chalk will always be the best, this is not even close to a replacement...

Well of course I didn't expect it to be as good as chalk haha, just a good substitute if your gym doesn't allow you to chalk up.

 

[SweetLou321]

Well of course I didn't expect it to be as good as chalk haha, just a good substitute if your gym doesn't allow you to chalk up.

Itll serv that purpose well

 

[Sourdough]

So it is a fact that C20 contains Ursobolic? Also, is there agmatine in it. I am currently using E-Pharm's Ursobolic and have been interested in getting Agmatine powder, but hey, if C20 contains them both maybe i will give them a shot..SJ

No.... it contains Ursolic Acid... Ursobolic is a label name also for ursolic acid... Plus Ursobolic is supposedly getting their Ursolic acid derived from apple peels where USPl is getting their Ursolic (and likely some oleanolic) acid from Symplocos Racemosa...

It does not contain Agmatine, from what I read on Agmatine, it would stack nicely with C20.

What it contains is 2 components synthesized from cocoa (chocolate) that both increase Camp, target the Beta2 adrenergic receptor, which can burn fat and has a downstream cascade to muscle anabolism... they are basically taking the good aspects of similar compounds like Clen with its beta receptor activation (minus the stimulating effects) and downstream anabolism and amplifying them with synergistic compounds like Ursolic Acid.

If they don't allow chalk there is also a thing called Liquidgrip. I haven't tried it yet, but my buddy just gave me his and said it helped him gain alot of forearm strength and helped his grip overall. I'll be trying this on my back days

Ive read about "liquid chalk" depending on costs and other avenues expended i may try it out...

Im thinking they are related in a way. But dont know for sure. One thing I do know though.. If I could stack this with prime... for cheaper Id do it... And have one hell of a bulk.

Im not sure what your referring "related" to... if the fact they both have ursolic acid? yes, but ones clearly printed on a label the other is in a proprietary blend and we have no idea what other triterpenoids it might be standardized for as well.... if its in reference to agmatine, then no, no agmatine and nothing related in C20, again I think theyd likely stack well from my C20 exp and the info I read on Agmatine...

I also think it will make for a mighty fine stack with Prime, Ill be testing it out after my next cycle and PCT. (although from the MOA I would think that C20 would do great in PCT, id prefer to save it and use it for gains through my "natty periods" or "breaks"

Im sure you can preform a hook grip if lil short oly lifters can. Get a good pair of wrist wraps (not straps, like the ones powerlifters use for bench), I personally have titans titanium 24in (mid) wraps. You wraps them so they are cast like and you hands can barly open. Then you chalk up...a lot, then you dig your palm as hard as you can on the bar, wrap you thumbs under the bar and try to get your middle and pointer fingers around your thumb as much as possible. The pain will be huge, itll take some time to get use to it. Also getting some plaster for your thumbs will help the thumb pain greatly. I personally use a hook grip.

Now your form, your barly have an arch in your back. When you pull your lats/traps are loose, shoulders appear to be infront of the bar, and your hips rise much faster then your shoulders. The deadlift is a HIP dominate movement not a BACK dominate movement. So you need to put more pressure on your hams and glutes and use less lower back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nRRlk6264I&feature=related

Thats awesome info man! thank you for sharing... Im new to the lift so Im still perfecting the form... Really though, I wonder if its the shape of my back or what cause I am really pulling back hard on my shoulders and trying to stick my chest out as far as possible when doing the lift.... again I have a LOT of meat to my back and some big shoulder blades that always stick out so it may add to the visual effect... none the less its an aspect to the lift that I will be paying close attention to and trying to correct as much as my body shape will allow.

The one thing I need some more clarification on is the hips... I dont understand what you mean they are raising faster... and my shoulders being in front of the bar.... I was following the directions of Mark Rippetoe and it was stated that it should line up with my shoulder blades... not shoulders (plus I have a longer torso and still fairly short arms so to get the grip on the bar without dropping my rear to the floor like the first video my torso has to lean forward a lil more... still follows the guidelines laid out in this vid here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA&feature=relmfu and the other vids "dead lift aligment pt. 1" and "2").

I am lucky enough to have the original 720p resolution vid on my computer that is hooked to my 42" tv so i can sit here and analyze the lift very closely... I can see what you are saying about my lats looking loose, but I promis my traps are being pulled back tight and my chest is being pushed out as hard as I can.... if you look at me standing in front of the bar just as the vid starts you can see how much my shoulder blades stick out... Im sure this along with the large amount of mid back muscle makes it look as though there isnt as much arching going on as there is.

Im going to give the hook grip some more work, see if I can get it down, my fingers feel like they slide off my thumb easier then just grabbing the bar though... and Im looking to increase grip strength and in the end get a slightly heavier dead lift, but by no means am I going for powerlifter status and dont want to artificially simulate a grip with tight wraps to tighten my tendons for me.... 400 is my ultimate goal, I feel I should be able to do that raw(no wraps, straps, belt or suit), with chalk for grip and to make up for an old bar and sweaty palms... the suggestions are appreciated all the same.

Again, Im gonna try to stay fully aware of my shoulder positioning and tightening my lats and traps for the next lift, and although it will be after C20 is already done, im going to come back to this thread and post up the results for further analyzing... thanks again for all the insight, its greatly appreciated.

 

[SweetLou321]

The wraps help your hands stay closed to lessen the pain as your thumbs adjust to the pain, that is all. This is in no way cheating man. chalk will change the way you deadlift regardless.

I watched your vid again, you can get SO much tighter.
Ok for feet placement, this is from Jim Wendlers 5/3/1. Do a standing jump, try to jump as high and fast as you can. Where your feet are when your jump is where your power stance is for the conventional deadlift. I would either stand there or bring your legs in just a tad.
Grip should right outside your legs to take advantage of leverages.
When you go to grab the bar I want you to get a HUGE deep breath of air into your stomach not your chest, this will help you get tighter, the pressure at the bottom should make your face feel like its gonna pop lol. this will help you pull faster off the ground.
Now what I personally do I do a RDL/Goodmorning motion down to the bar, this put a HUGE amount of stress in my glutes/hams, this also gives me an arch from the get go. Now I let my upper back only round to grab the bar. Then right before I sit back to pull and get my shoulders BEHIND the bar, which you dont currently have. You want as much of your behind the bar as possible to take advantage of the counter balance for a stronger pull. But anyways, once I grab the bar I pull my lats and traps in tight creating a strong arch, I tighten my abs, sit back and pull focusing and pulling my shoulders up while pulling my hips thru. I also flex my forearms to pull even more of my lats into the picture. Also pull the bar up your legs very tight, this will tear the skin off so get some deadlifting socks to lessen the pain. Also in your vid you can see the deadlidt almost looks like a 2 part lift where your hips shot up THEN your shoulders come up second, it should look like a 1 part lift where they move together. I hope this helps, with the vid I linked to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr2_mCh2dUI&feature=related Dave tate on the deadlift

 

[Sourdough]

Sounds good!

N I wouldnt consider any of the techniques or aids "cheating" personally, I just want to be able to benefit from all the aspects of the lift done correctly and allow my body to toughen up to the task.... I MAY eventually get straps for regular lifting purposes on heavier sets but not until I reach the ability to hit my 1RM goal without any physical aids.

I see now what your talkin about with my hips, its looking much more like a stiff legged deadlift then a conventional one now that im running through more of these vids... I need to find a happy medium between the crouch i do in the vid on page 7 and this last dead lift here... one is too much legs, the other too much back.... Ill get it, just gotta keep at it.

 

[Sourdough]

Just found a really good vid here dislpaying the proper hip movement...





Thanks again for pointing this out... will be the main focus(along with tighter lats/traps and a belly full of air) in my next dead session... I dont even think Ill be going for a max effort lift, just practicing form with some decent weight at higher reps to build the feeling into my technique. my ego can wait.

 

[mattrag]

ho crap you were Roman Deadlifting them? I just thought the camera had bad angle and were PR'ng so your leg pop/hip drive was just really fast and abbreviated. Thats a HUGE Roman deadlift... specially from the FLOOR. C20... Damn I want but I think the funds are just not there right now. Probably going to regret this later but hey, I cant run every supp there is lol.

 

[Sourdough]

ho crap you were Roman Deadlifting them? I just thought the camera had bad angle and were PR'ng so your leg pop/hip drive was just really fast and abbreviated. Thats a HUGE Roman deadlift... specially from the FLOOR. C20... Damn I want but I think the funds are just not there right now. Probably going to regret this later but hey, I cant run every supp there is lol.

nono...

I was attempting a conventional deadlift... I was just using the vid as a good example of hip travel compared to my lack of it...

What I was doing was following the exact guidelines of Mark Rippetoe, a well known personal trainer instructor, and his definition of what the right form for a deadlift would be for my body type.... almost... I do need to drive more with my hips then my back...

besides my lower starting position what I was doing was much closer to a stiff legged deadlift or a semi stiff legged deadlift, both of which are real variations to the lift but not what Im shooting for in order to hit the right numbers and incorporate all the correct muscle groups that would get worked with a conventional deadlift.


Im almost certain that for a deadlift to be a roman deadlift it has to start from the standing position... no way am I gonna walk out 315 hanging from my hands THEN rep it, just the same I wouldnt pick it up, chill, and then do romans... might as well do a normal lift at that point. lol.

 

[mattrag]

haha, okay okay. I watched the vid mark posted. Like his stuff. he's a no BS type guy. A

I also find it important to think "PULL". So now whenever I refer to a DL day I just say I'm pulling off the floor. I used to think drive with the legs. But that always led to injury. Now I just think pull and my numbers haven't been better (Though not very impressive).

Good job on the vids though man... That takes courage i'm still trying to find lol

 

[Sourdough]

awesome deadlifting article im reading right this moment, just thought Id share...

http://www.t-nation.com/article/bodybuilding/dissecting_the_deadlift&cr=bodybuilding

 

[Sourdough]

haha, okay okay. I watched the vid mark posted. Like his stuff. he's a no BS type guy. A

I also find it important to think "PULL". So now whenever I refer to a DL day I just say I'm pulling off the floor. I used to think drive with the legs. But that always led to injury. Now I just think pull and my numbers haven't been better (Though not very impressive).

Good job on the vids though man... That takes courage i'm still trying to find lol

btw... I know your like 7 or 8 hours behind me (more like 16 ahead, but whatever) but do you EVER sleep??? lol...

 

[mattrag]

btw... I know your like 7 or 8 hours behind me (more like 16 ahead, but whatever) but do you EVER sleep??? lol...

Yup, got up when I posted here. Usually i sleep from 10-11pm till around 6-630ish am. I'm completely off then. While I'm at work I post either from my phone or while I'm making lessons from the computer. While I'm teaching I don't post but I come back during the breaks and check if I should post something real quick and grab my next lesson and take it. Pretty much routine. Though I have a business trip next mon-tues and the location has no Cell reception... so I will be very inactive during those times... lol.

 

[farmtireguy]

i hate it when i get get into areas with no cell coverage.

 

[AaronJP1]

Dough you really set a standard with this log man.

You will have other loggers with a beware of SourDough sign up
Lol.

 

[Sourdough]

i hate it when i get get into areas with no cell coverage.

I live in an area with crap cell coverage, nothing but dial up internet and basic cable...

I have to sit my phone in a window and tether it to my PC/TV to share the data but its still slow as hell and def not even fast enough for me to get on to Xbox Live.... sux...

At least I can post n pull up google searches though...

 

[AaronJP1]

I live in an area with crap cell coverage, nothing but dial up internet and basic cable...

I have to sit my phone in a window and tether it to my PC/TV to share the data but its still slow as hell and def not even fast enough for me to get on to Xbox Live.... sux...

At least I can post n pull up google searches though...

My iPhone is my I-net modem too.


What city state u n dough?

 

[Sourdough]

Dough you really set a standard with this log man.

You will have other loggers with a beware of SourDough sign up
Lol.

hah, thanks man.... after Hemavol, I'll be busy for a few months with my upcoming cycle... may or may not rough log it just for my own records... so I think the general logger population is safe for now...

I appreciate the fact that others find it a worth while log though, sometimes I wonder if all my blabbering on and side tangents just detract some folks... Just with someone elses product I get for free I figure give it the most thorough honest feedback possible, be it good or bad...

I cant believe at one point I was contemplating tossing C20 in the trash...

 

[AaronJP1]

Yeah... I remember that haha...
I'm starting my cycle tomorrow. I chose halotest-25.

We will c how it goes.

 

[mattrag]

hah, thanks man.... after Hemavol, I'll be busy for a few months with my upcoming cycle... may or may not rough log it just for my own records... so I think the general logger population is safe for now...

I appreciate the fact that others find it a worth while log though, sometimes I wonder if all my blabbering on and side tangents just detract some folks... Just with someone elses product I get for free I figure give it the most thorough honest feedback possible, be it good or bad...

I cant believe at one point I was contemplating tossing C20 in the trash...

Haha, c20 went from crap to gold! Great! Looking forward to that Hemavol log and more into your training philosophies. I really am getting excited about Agmatine and hope one day I get to run a log on it. Thanks for all the updates and details in the log. Please keep logging lol. It's refreshing to see logs that have content. I like to spice mine up but.... my logs are pretty junk compared to yours.

 

[Sourdough]

well that was weird... some how came back to my computer after chasing a mouse around the house and trying to sick my stupid cat on it to my post still not posted... posted it... and somehow it was already there and you guys commented on it, lol... I didnt remember even sending it..


Oh well..

Stupid fetchin mouse messed me up too, I took my C-20 dose, took the last 3rd of a jacked packet (like maybe 3/4ths of a scoop worth) and was on schedule to hit up the gym before it closed... but by the time the great mouscapade was done I woulda arrived at the gym at 11:20 at best and they close at 12 (Plus it seems their clocks are about 5 min faster then mine)... So now Im sitting here primed to workout and no outlet...

I planned on doing shoulders... I think I will still do them, luckily shoulders is one of the few muscle groups i feel I can adequately hit with a BW workout and some heavier crap found round the house...

Gonna do some hand stand pushups till set of absolute failure with my feet propped against the wall... might record it for the laugh and so everyone can see my face turn beet red...

Then find some stuff to do a ton of lateral and front raises then prob used the couch or dresser to do some shoulder shrugs... IDK, im workin out though, just in one of those moods where Im not gonna let this day go without doin something...

 

[Sourdough]

Yeah... I remember that haha...
I'm starting my cycle tomorrow. I chose halotest-25.

We will c how it goes.

Nice, should still treat you good, first cycles are always fun regardless...


Whats up with the C-20 though? you gonna hand it off so someone else can run the log?

 

[Sourdough]

Day 25 (at home workout)

Ok... day 24 was an off day, nothing significant to note, obviously as I didnt post an update, lol...

Tonight as mentioned I was deterred from getting to the gym on time thanks to a lil bastage rodent in my house and my wife telling me I better not leave her there with a "man eating mouse" in the house... LOL...


Wound up getting stuck at home and jonesing to still workout and so thats just what I did.

I never knew I would get such use outta the wedding gifts we got (a 10 piece cooking set of pots and 2 fairly heavy porcelain and steel serving platters) but between them and the wall I got a great shoulders workout and had my traps absolutely jumping off my shoulders, havnt seen them ever that pumped before...

I didnt keep any solid log of numbers here, dont plan on repeating this workout as its a "as needed" only workout and just used higher reps with the heaviest things I could find at the time which are likely to change anyhow if it has to ever be done again.

Basically a few of the things done besides headstand pushups though was good ol' lateral and front raise platter supersets, over the head cooking set raises and presses and supersets of the 2 and I also devised a half body shoulder press cheater done like cheater pushups except with knees on the back of the couch forming an upsidedown L shape so that I could target the shoulders and not upper chest.

great pumps were achieved but really thats about it...


Oh and as promised... heres a vid to goof at with my belly hangin out.



Edit: only reason the pillow is there is cause its basically one of the ONLY bare wall space I have in my small home and there just so happens to be a metal heater vent grate right there I didnt want to jack myself on at failure...

 

[dlucks]

hey did you get an email for the compound 20 inner circle? Anyway to get a link so I could buy a bottle?

 

[miniarnold]

Hey Sourgdough,
read through the 2nd half of your log the C20 supp seems interesting, what eaxactly is it supposed to do gain muscle and fat loss similtaneously, and is it an all natural supp, does it in fact contain ursolic acid?

what have your results been with it from the start do you feel the c20 is resonsible and not any other supps you are stacking it with, and do you feel it is worth taking and would you use again?

what is beta testing mean, testing b4 a products actual release?
i see you use LCLT do you find this a good supp to use, do you have any physical effects benefits from this alone?
what is prime, a natty supp any good?

1g of carbs stores 2.7g of water with it

Congrats on the marriage mate! can you walk on your hands to!
Cheers

 

[Sourdough]

Hey Sourgdough,
read through the 2nd half of your log the C20 supp seems interesting, what eaxactly is it supposed to do gain muscle and fat loss similtaneously, and is it an all natural supp,

That looks like its the overall goal of the supplement given the individual ingredients researched effects. seems to have done alright at addind some muscle mass for me, dunno so much about the fat, but Im sure it helped a degree.

does it in fact contain ursolic acid?

yes it does... to what degree or dose, IDK... given the ingredient they list as the extraction source, it could also contain Oleanic acid...

Also, I spoke with a USPl Rep... I asked what the dose could be reduced on Ursobolic if taking it with C20 so as to not come outright and ask them exactly how much Ursolic acid it contained and he mentioned you could cut the Ursobolic dose in half if taken with a full dose of C20... so take that FWIW

what have your results been with it from the start

it took a second to kick in... more like 2 weeks to show its positive effects but it was obvious it was doing something from the start.

do you feel the c20 is resonsible and not any other supps you are stacking it with, and do you feel it is worth taking and would you use again?

I had been taking all other supplements for quite some time previous to starting C20 and in fact had discontinued some other performance based supps 2 weeks previous... so yes, all the effects shown were obviously attributable to C20 alone... Creatine was even ceased for the most part besides the occasional fraction of a dose of a sample pack of preworkout powder(i dont do well with normal preworkout doses, they contain way too many stims, make me feel cracked out for the workout and often make me have to crap halfway through my workout)... LCLT actually ran out about a week into the run as well... I dont think I even mentioned that BUT you can see I stop mentioning it as I was always saying aminos and LCLT then I just said aminos at a point... that was when the LCLT ran up, lol.

what is beta testing mean, testing b4 a products actual release?

Yes Beta testing is just that... the company has a basic idea of what they want for a supplement and a solid idea of what the doses should be but need to test out the combination of ingredients together and ensure it works on a widespread basis for most consumers.

i see you use LCLT do you find this a good supp to use, do you have any physical effects benefits from this alone?

I had LCLT for my extended PCT... used in conjuntion with many other supps I think LCLT can offer a lot and has synergy with many other compounds... its well researched and proven and while I have never ran LCLT by itself I know its effects are worthwhile although subtle and something I try to keep on hand but just am low on funds until this december and the only reason its not in my arsenal right now. its cheap enough in bulk and the results are proven that I would def suggest picking some up.

what is prime, a natty supp any good?

Its another supp from USPl and one of my fav personally... I dont get the ingredients in it as its one of the more vague ones they have, Pink magic being much more vague imo, I wish they would just come out and explain to us whats really in it as far as what they are actually extracting from the plants listed on the label and then tell us why they think it works... but in all honesty its one supp that I am willing to say IDC cause I know it works for me, no placebo, really works.... There are tons of logs on it around and other guys that both love it and hate it(even though most that hate ON it havnt even given it a try) so try searchin prime on here n youll see some awesome results...

1g of carbs stores 2.7g of water with it

ooook.... what was the point of this??? lol...

Congrats on the marriage mate! can you walk on your hands to!
Cheers

Thanks man and no way... I have no balance walking on my hands, just some alright body strength to weigh ratio... used to be much higher when I was like 20lbs lighter, I could do 50 headstand pushups.

 

[Sourdough]

Just an update.... didnt get into the gym last night for legs cause the lil lady just wanted me here to herself... we are going to a company party/dance tonight but I plan on getting legs taken care of right after and will pop back in to update my last workout with compound 20 after...

I will be doing the final review on monday and get in all the updated rating numbers, accumulated info and a video review for the summation post.

 

[miniarnold]

[QUOTE=Sourdough;3063742(as most may know 2g of water for 1g of CHO absorbed into muscles...)

so is the c20 a totally natty supp?
may look into the prime only if its a natty supp

think im gonna use LCLT as a staple in the new yr, yr round

keep us posted and your end review shud be good, any other loggers who are having better reults than you?

 

[Sourdough]

Day 27-Saturday (workout)

Hey guys... sorry for taking so long to get the update in for sat...

Had the wifes company party to attend to and then hitting the gym after and a movie when we got home had me OUT n I took all of yesterday and basically lounged, n skimmed a few posts late last night...

Legs went great again on Sat, cant believe still how much BETTER I feel doing legs right now then I did at the start of C-20... Usually legs just take it right outta me and by the time Im getting to the machines I have to sit down between sets and just focus on keeping my stomach cool so I dont puke.

Heres the numbers... didnt do much for advancing them much BUT did do this all in a very short time frame since I got in with only 45 min before they were gonna close...

Legs
Squats(free)- 10x135lb, 10x185lb, 10x225lb
Calf "press"-10x4plates, 10x4plates
Leg curls(both legs)- 10x90lb, 10x150lb, 10x170lb
Leg Extensions (single leg R/L)-(0-5-2 timing) 10/10x70lb, 10/10x80lb, 10/10x90lb


Compound 20 notes:

Still the no huge developments... didnt have the chance to check weight on sat considering the rush and it slipping my mind. Thirst is still constant to the very end and I still feel as though theres something left to this.. Im certain this could be run much longer and similar effects could still be obtained, considering the kick in time for this id think 6 weeks would be perfect and 8 weeks would be nice to try and see if it doesnt fall off by that point. Nothing else to note cept today (mon) legs are still sore as heck.


I will be posting up my final review tonight with all ratings and final weight as well.... after a week I will be coming back in here to update on the weight status as well and see if glycogen stores are depleted at all and the primary cause of weight gain or if Im sitting on a pretty nice amount of LBM gains... Video review will also be coming sometime in the next few days to cap off all my experiences, vids and recommendations for Compound 20.

 

[Sourdough]

Final Progress Report and Review

OK.... time for the final wrap up...

All in all I can say I'm very pleased with my Compound 20 experience. While of course any natty supp isn't going to illicit EXACTLY the same effects for everyone I can say that if someone has their diet down, a solid routine that allows adequate recovery and is set for hypertrophy, that someone should definitely see an improvement to their setup with the addition of Compound 20.

I feel the biggest drawbacks to Compound 20 would be the provided amount of product... while I managed to still have some stellar results in my 4 week run nothing positive was even noticeable till most the way through my second week and really started to show up in the third week... Being able to run this at least another 2 weeks or maybe being able to dose a lil higher to start could allow for one to have a longer period of time on Compound 20 whilst seeing positive effects.

To get down to it.... today, I weighed in at 200.2lbs(+10.2lb.)... while this is likely much heavier then what the true LBM gains are its likely I have put on some solid muscle and definitely have added quite a bit of strength... NOW whether they are both just the result of increased glycogen stores is to be seen after this next week and something I will certainly update everyone on as to if the changes stick... If these are mine to keep... well... that will be just nuts.

To get a lil more detailed into my exp, I'm going to once again lay out the main categories of interest (at least for myself) and give the final ratings on the culmination of my 4week experience.



Pump: 7/10
With the total picture taken into account Id have to say that while pumps BECAME something to look forward to this last week and a few isolated incidences of sustained post workout pump and next day pumps Id have to say Ive had better.... I have to think that this may have been a higher rating and more prevalent effect had I had the chance to continue on with the C-20 run a while longer... If one is looking for pumps a preworkout complex will be better suited to give you your fix.

Body Composition Changes: 8/10
While I didn't really see instant positive changes in this area, in fact the opposite, changes were happening from the very start. The positive changes were subtle though and true to a good ol' recomp. Mass was added, fat levels were kept in check and the scale continued to consistently climb throughout... leading me to believe that really only the initial weight gain was glycogen and I'm likely sitting on a decent amount of quality muscle accrual.

Strength Increases: 10/10
I just cant say enough... Really. The effects I had on Compound 20 were completely unexpected in regards to strength. Previous to this run I had not exactly been stagnant on strength progression but it CERTAINLY wasn't a weekly occurrence. Not only were working weights increased but PR's were pushed, intensity and interset recovery jumped more quickly then Ive ever experienced on a natty supplement... I'm really interested n what this could do for one between regular cycling in maintaining strength gains or even possibly progressing them further. If lbm is your goal, this might float your boat, but if strength gains are what your searching for then this is your ticket to the PR express.


Sleep and Muscular Recovery: 6/10
I'm kind of at a loss with this one.... While I had great sleep and obvious nutrient partitioning effects for some reason DOMS was not reduced in the least... in fact I'm certain it was INCREASED... again whether or not this was the result of constant increases in weights used for workouts or an inherent trait of the supplement I am unsure, but am inclined to lean towards the former. Sleep, again, was sound and uninterrupted with the exception of early morning bladder evacuations but falling right back asleep and continuing right through with vivid dreaming was the norm while on C-20.


Side Effects: 5/10(10 being side free)
With the entire run once again taken into account.... Id have to say that Ive never ran a natty supplements with such a wide array of side effects and some that were so unpleasant that I considered discontinuing supplementing C-20 altogether. Initial weight fluctuations and bloating was the worst. Increased acne on the shoulders and back wont be missed. The constant thirst and subsequent urination, while likely a good sign of anabolism, is still something that I could do without. Occasional bouts with hypoglycemia and lethargy, both again good signs of nutrient partitioning/anabolism, are certainly something one should be aware of while on C-20 and diet should be adjusted (increased carbs at dosing typically) to avoid running into such unpleasantries. The ONLY positive "side effect" I could identify in regards to C-20 was the increased libido, sometimes to where it was "raging" and had to be satisfied NOW...


Overall Initial Impressions: 10/10
Overall.....

Compound 20 is taking home a rating of 10!

My reasoning.... never have I yet experienced a single, standalone, natty product run that has elicited such drastic effects on strength and subsequent body composition changes simultaneously. Sides are to be taken in stride and had I not been the one beta testing this and already aware of certain possible negatives ahead of time, proper preparations and dietary changes would have been made to easily combat these preemptively. I'm honestly excited to see others get their hands on this and see what fun it can bring to their routine and even more so how I will implement this into my future "natty" periods and what possibilities might be available with intelligent stacking options. I'm certainly glad to have such a thing in my arsenal now in order to progress my never ending goals to refines ones body.


With that I'm going to close out my Compound 20 thread* with one more post containing my final video review and recap, somewhat redundant for those of you that followed along through the log and that bothered to read through this review as well, but none the less here it is....





*I will be answering any queries through this thread of course and will make a singular update 1 week post in regards to the maintenance of strength and weight gains.

 

[Sourdough]

 

[mattrag]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHJnvTOsgE">YouTube Link</a>

Nice video review!!

I'll be in touch.

 

[AaronJP1]

Awsome review & log.