Kleen - Project 50: Under Construction

[gphagan1]

Yeah that would be a lot…..I typically haven’t taken Creatine over 10g. Next cycle that I add Var, though, I may try 20g just to try it out.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah that would be a lot…..I typically haven’t taken Creatine over 10g. Next cycle that I add Var, though, I may try 20g just to try it out.

I think I dropped to 20 or 15 which is more than I had ever taken except for way back in the day when we thought we needed a loading phase.

 

[Dustin07]

everyone argues with me that you don't need more than 5g of creatine but I have never noticed any results with less than 10-20g. The only downside I've ever noticed is after enough time of consistent creatine the area around my appendix would get sore like I was laying on a rock. I found more water and a break from the creatine always made it go away.

 

[MrKleen73]

I don't really like the way I feel if I get over 10, and honestly I don't even seek creatine out any longer. The last time I bought it was to try the spurfy thing and that was a while back. Otherwise I got creatine from my preworkouts, or didn't supplement it at all. Not saying it isn't useful, especially for a natty, or someone trying to add some weight quickly like filling out for a weight class in powerlifting. However it isn't something I use regularly anymore.

 

[MrKleen73]

I forgot to mention that I decided to wait until I got home to train. I would have only had about 25 minutes to get a workout in once you count changing into my gym clothes and back into work clothes. So I decided it really did not make sense and that I could just do a quick session once I got home. That way I can add the chain to my lunges for a better lower body workout. Going to take a 30 minute walk and then eat another meal when I get back so I am ready to train when I get home.

 

[SHORSE]

Yeah that would be a lot…..I typically haven’t taken Creatine over 10g. Next cycle that I add Var, though, I may try 20g just to try it out.

I have used 5 grams a day for what seems like forever. I had a large tub and then my son brought over a large tub about 6 months ago. the stuff last forever. I put 5g in my morning protein shake. not sure if its ever done anything for me. just have a bunch so I use it.

 

[Dustin07]

I don't really like the way I feel if I get over 10, and honestly I don't even seek creatine out any longer. The last time I bought it was to try the spurfy thing and that was a while back. Otherwise I got creatine from my preworkouts, or didn't supplement it at all. Not saying it isn't useful, especially for a natty, or someone trying to add some weight quickly like filling out for a weight class in powerlifting. However it isn't something I use regularly anymore.

I'm with you. pretty much the only thing I'm doing now is pre workout tbh. we'll see how the next month goes... lol

 

[Hyde]

I stopped using it about 3 months before the meet, and then loaded it the week of the meet.

It just wasn’t worth the constant bloating and gut disturbance; I realized I don’t tolerate it anymore so I’ll need a slicker delivery form than mono if I want to try incorporating it as a staple ever again.

But I did it pre-meet because that last week is basically constant suffering from the orals anyway, so what’s a little more discomfort

 

[RegisterJr]

Ive been wanting to try adderal as the pre workout some time. I bet it’s great, despite not being what it’s for.

I stopped using it about 3 months before the meet, and then loaded it the week of the meet.

It just wasn’t worth the constant bloating and gut disturbance; I realized I don’t tolerate it anymore so I’ll need a slicker delivery form than mono if I want to try incorporating it as a staple ever again.

But I did it pre-meet because that last week is basically constant suffering from the orals anyway, so what’s a little more discomfort

C mono used to destroy my gut every day. I dropped it for the great tasting hcl until Covid spiked the prices and availability. I’ve since gone back to mono and have not had a single gut issue. I wish I knew what the difference was.

 

[Hyde]

Ive been wanting to try adderal as the pre workout some time. I bet it’s great, despite not being what it’s for.



C mono used to destroy my gut every day. I dropped it for the great tasting hcl until Covid spiked the prices and availability. I’ve since gone back to mono and have not had a single gut issue. I wish I knew what the difference was.

A very significant world’s strongest man competitor, a finalist, told me his go to preWO for heavy lifting was adderal and Anadrol.

I can certainly say that nothing boosts acute power like Anadrol!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah too much of it does mess with my gut, and once the prices went up I just decided it was not worth it for me unless a specific goal.

@RegisterJr - I did not end up using the adderrall as my pre this morning. No specific reason other than I was a little worried about it making my heart race during the workout. I grabbed a clump of pre-workout instead. Yeah I said a clump, a couple months in Texas and they aren't powder anymore. Our humidity slaps those desiccant packs around and makes them it's bitch! Then I took my Adderall with my post workout meal.

I did not end up lifting last night. I had a major headache, the kind it feels like your eye socket it trying to squeeze your eye out, and the muscles over your ears are just tight. I went for a mile walk but it was not getting any better so I went inside, doused myself with some relax to get some CBD going and massaged my head for a while. Set my alarm for 4:30 AM and so I could get my session in this morning and went to sleep. I am increasing water today and will see if I have another one of those headaches tonight. If so it is another big consideration in me opting for another medication.

10/5/22 - 213.4 - been holding here for 3 days now.

Resistance Training

Weighted Walking - 1 mile with 44lb chain

Chain Lunges - 5x5

Super Set - Right side only-
Iron Tech Chest Press x4 sets @ RPE8
Iron Tech Lat Pull Down x4 sets @ RPE8

Tire Sled Drag - 50 yards x 6 - Man this lit me up, it was very challenging. I could really feel it on the entire back side of my legs. Especially in the glute/ham tie in area. I forgot how much friction the tire creates. With only about 20-25lbs in it, and it weighing 35lbs, it feels like pulling around 4-5 plates on a real pulling sled. With 15-30 seconds rest it kicked my ass! it is funny I thought I might just drag it around the block. Not even close but it will likely become one of the goals.

 

[BOSSMAN]

You walking around a neighborhood with the big ass chain on??

Headaches suck!!!!!

 

[gphagan1]

A bad headache can set you back for sure, especially if it’s a migraine or even a hypertension headache will have your temples throbbing. It’s good you’re still putting in some work though, you’ll feel better in the long run mentally and physically.

 

[MrKleen73]

You walking around a neighborhood with the big ass chain on??

View attachment 222962

Headaches suck!!!!!

Looking like Big Sexy up in this Biatch!

Maybe a little more like "The Junk Yard Dog!" with a bigger chain!

Agreed, headaches suck!!! I hardly ever get them, but I truly hate them.

 

[MrKleen73]

A bad headache can set you back for sure, especially if it’s a migraine or even a hypertension headache will have your temples throbbing. It’s good you’re still putting in some work though, you’ll feel better in the long run mentally and physically.

Yeah no doubt, both of my kids had a lot of headaches on adderall. I would tell them there are other medicines but they never wanted to change over. For me if I have headaches like that even semi regularly the benefit would not be worth the pain to stay on it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Had another headache last night, it was not as bad as the previous day but still an unwelcome side. I am hoping the fact it wasn't as bad means I am adjusting to it and they may go away.

I got all of my nutrition in yesterday but it was very hard to do. Not sure if it is me pushing more fibrous foods or possibly the 25mg of t-bol already starting to affect my appetite or maybe a little of both but I was force feeding the last half of my last meal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PT went well this morning, we added some new exercises, and she got me into some new territory in my ROM for both external rotation and the overhead stretches. Still does not feel good at all, but same pain/discomfort level with increased ROM is definitely a win.

After PT I went to my follow up with my ortho. I discussed some areas of concern, just to find out if these were expected or not. He said it sounds like scar tissue sticking to the end of the bone that just needs to gradually be broken down through movement. He assured me it is common and he is not worried bout it at all. Then he gave me permission to start exploring my ROM more and doing even more with my shoulder. Said I was obviously very in touch with my body and the process so he feels I can begin to push more based on what I am doing feels like when it comes to the shoulder. Happy with that for sure.

For the biceps he said he was very impressed with how much muscle mass I have retained, and asked me if I had been working it somehow. I told him no I have been following the protocol to a T. He said well that is awesome, but recommended I stick with no biceps contraction over a pound or so in my hand for the next two weeks then once I can start some things in PT I can begin doing a little more with the arm. I am happy to hear he thinks it is healing really well and was impressed with the muscle tone and lower atrophy than he expected. So all of it was good news.

On a food note, I was starving in between my PT and Follow up so once I parked I looked for a place to grab a bite with my 45 minutes before my appointment. I found a little market serving breakfast tacos and got myself a chorizo and egg taco. Far from diet food but they didn't have a lot of options. He told me they make it there and use leaner pork so it wouldn't be quite as fatty. So I only got myself one. It was hands down the best chorizo I have ever had and did have noticeably less fat. I am going to find one in myfitnesspal and use the calories and stuff but hopefully it is a little less fat in this. Either way sorry, not sorry, that thang was good!!!!

Today is a "cardio day" I will either take an hour walk or knock out some actual cardio on the treadmill or bike for about 35-40 minutes when I get home tonight.

 

[BOSSMAN]

"CHORIZO" LUCKY!!!!

I may have missed it, but have you been doing bicep exercises outside of protocol to keep the muscle mass?

 

[gphagan1]

That’s good news….everything seems to be moving in the right direction. But man I know how it is, the Doctor tells you everything looks good and maybe in 2 to 3 weeks you can start doing some light lifting. It’s like that 2-3 weeks seems like the longest of your life. And I know you know, but as you explore more ROM you will have some pain or discomfort and that is normal and nothing to worry about, unless it’s extreme or doesn’t go away.

 

[MrKleen73]

"CHORIZO" LUCKY!!!!

I may have missed it, but have you been doing bicep exercises outside of protocol to keep the muscle mass?

No, not at all. I may have unintentionally used it a little more than prescribed, but I have honestly tried to avoid using it. Even when I carry my coffee in that hand I do so with my arm straight then grab the cup with my other hand to drink or lift it. That is really only when my hands are full but he said that was fine. He told me today I could hold a small cup but not like a 32 oz yeti, I pointed at mine and said well that is what I have. So he said no lets wait the 2 weeks on that. He said he didn't expect any issues with it but thought it was best to err on the side of caution. I think some of the cell volumization from the TBol probably helped with that.

That’s good news….everything seems to be moving in the right direction. But man I know how it is, the Doctor tells you everything looks good and maybe in 2 to 3 weeks you can start doing some light lifting. It’s like that 2-3 weeks seems like the longest of your life. And I know you know, but as you explore more ROM you will have some pain or discomfort and that is normal and nothing to worry about, unless it’s extreme or doesn’t go away.

Yeah I can't wait to start getting back into the lifting but that is still 6 weeks out on the biceps. In two weeks when we start working on it in therapy it will be doing isometric stuff I am sure. Then after week 12 I can start actually lifting again.

Yeah agreed on the ROM, and now that he cleared me to start exploring my ROM both through flexion and now abduction I will be pushing that a bit more and fully expect to be pretty uncomfortable in doing so. He was happy with all the strength tests he did for my rotator cuff. So really as far as that it is a game of increasing ROM right now, the strength is coming back quickly and without much discomfort.

 

[Dustin07]

I came into your thread late so I didn't catch what the cause of the headaches is or if you know. My wife gets severe tension in her back and I have been able to find and remove the knot a few times which helps her with headaches and vertigo. on occasion she goes to a friend who is a professional and does a better job (it's a woman so I'm not concerned lol. no need to throw out the obvious jokes here).

years ago I was experimenting with various supplements and found one that gave me such severe headaches that I couldn't even do pull-ups because the strain of just that was causing my head to split. it took like 2 weeks to get that **** out of my body.

 

[MrKleen73]

I came into your thread late so I didn't catch what the cause of the headaches is or if you know. My wife gets severe tension in her back and I have been able to find and remove the knot a few times which helps her with headaches and vertigo. on occasion she goes to a friend who is a professional and does a better job (it's a woman so I'm not concerned lol. no need to throw out the obvious jokes here).

years ago I was experimenting with various supplements and found one that gave me such severe headaches that I couldn't even do pull-ups because the strain of just that was causing my head to split. it took like 2 weeks to get that **** out of my body.

Ugh 2 weeks of horrible headaches. I don't even want to imagine. No I just started on Adderrall and a couple days in it started giving me some gnarly headaches. So trying to see if I can adjust or if I go back and ask for a new medication.

 

[Dustin07]

Ugh 2 weeks of horrible headaches. I don't even want to imagine. No I just started on Adderrall and a couple days in it started giving me some gnarly headaches. So trying to see if I can adjust or if I go back and ask for a new medication.

Ahhh I didn't realize the two were connected. back in the day Animal had one particular supp that would crush me I think I had tried it a year later with the same results.

 

[MrKleen73]

Ahhh I didn't realize the two were connected. back in the day Animal had one particular supp that would crush me I think I had tried it a year later with the same results.

Ah, no bueno! I liked the stuff of theirs I used. I do remember one of them giving me a pressure in my head but it never grew into a headache. One of their animal packs but I don't remember which.

 

[Dustin07]

Ah, no bueno! I liked the stuff of theirs I used. I do remember one of them giving me a pressure in my head but it never grew into a headache. One of their animal packs but I don't remember which.

I wanna say it was either cuts, or one of the "t" boosters but it had to be a good 10 years ago. right now I'm basically natural with the exception of horny goat weed and some other off the shelf "male enhancement" supp. I should get my T levels checked, I'm curious. My symptoms indicate they're strong though lol.

 

[Hyde]

Vitamin T does a bicep good

I began lifting with my arm at 11 weeks. I was more than ready and that first week was just a barbell for sets of 10 on bench and stuff. Nothing serious, just re-exposing the muscle to very lightly loaded movements. Not saying when you should, just that it was totally fine and in retrospect I could have started that a week earlier even likely.

 

[MrKleen73]

Vitamin T does a bicep good

I began lifting with my arm at 11 weeks. I was more than ready and that first week was just a barbell for sets of 10 on bench and stuff. Nothing serious, just re-exposing the muscle to very lightly loaded movements. Not saying when you should, just that it was totally fine and in retrospect I could have started that a week earlier even likely.

Yeah, I will definitely be feeling things out, and be a lot more adventurous about it after I have cleared the 8 week mark. When he told me no on the yeti I told him well I already hold it for a few seconds at 90 degrees while shuffling things around in my other arm, digging for keys and stuff. That it feels 100% fine, no pulling or sensitivity. I am not doing any curling with it but honestly think I will be fine for light weights by 10 weeks. Talking 10lb DB's or so to start and just feel it out. I mean it is attached to the bone and the bone should be pretty darn healed up by 8 weeks. I don't see a 10lb db doing any damage with controlled contraction and paying attention to how things feel. I honestly feel could start now with 3 or 5lb but trying to respect the process.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah, I will definitely be feeling things out, and be a lot more adventurous about it after I have cleared the 8 week mark. When he told me no on the yeti I told him well I already hold it for a few seconds at 90 degrees while shuffling things around in my other arm, digging for keys and stuff. That it feels 100% fine, no pulling or sensitivity. I am not doing any curling with it but honestly think I will be fine for light weights by 10 weeks. Talking 10lb DB's or so to start and just feel it out. I mean it is attached to the bone and the bone should be pretty darn healed up by 8 weeks. I don't see a 10lb db doing any damage with controlled contraction and paying attention to how things feel. I honestly feel could start now with 3 or 5lb but trying to respect the process.

Those were my thoughts for myself. Not worth undermining the doctor’s worth, but also not being a slackass under the excuse of “Doctors orders” when I’m clearly good to begin re-introduction. It’s not like I was even putting a plate on the barbell the first week, just beginning to load fundamental movements again.

 

[MrKleen73]

10/7/22 - 213.2lbs down .2lbs finally a little downward motion again...

I think I am hyper responding to the PED's at this point since I haven't run them in years. I am very full, and looking a lot bigger in my t-shirts, just filling them out more. I can't really say I look leaner, just bigger. I am sure it has to do with the PEDs, and the fact I have been getting more carbs in lately.

Slept decently last night, still got a headache though. Since I added so much all in the same week I opted to not take the Adderall today and see if my head feels better tonight. Just making sure it is not something else causing them although I am pretty sure it is the Adderall. I did cardio last night without any preworkout or stimulants and wow is it harder to get through. LOL I found myself wanting to stop at several points just because I was bored and lower energy. Luckily I was watching an episode of Flagrant on Youtube which kept me laughing. Andrew Shulz is one of the funniest comedians coming up right now.

Treadmill Incline walking = 446 calories

Those were my thoughts for myself. Not worth undermining the doctor’s worth, but also not being a slackass under the excuse of “Doctors orders” when I’m clearly good to begin re-introduction. It’s not like I was even putting a plate on the barbell the first week, just beginning to load fundamental movements again.

Exactly, I will give some light things a shot as we move forward. I am already doing a little more than he expected. He was very happy to see I gesture with my left hand same as my right and I am not really guarding it. I use it to open doors and what not ever since I got out of the sling. I just modified how I open the doors with it and as it has become more comfortable I have started pulling more with the arm than the back. Simple things that seem to have made a difference in my level of atrophy along side being at 200mg Test E since the surgery and now having bumped to 280 with the 25mg of TBol I expect things will really start moving.

I started working more on lateral, cross body and shoulder abduction movements already since he told me to explore my ROM and try to get into new territory on my own. We discussed basically not crossing a 7 on the pain scale while trying to achieve new ROM so I have a good guide for what he considers safe for me at this point.

 

[Hyde]

Have you checked your blood pressure when getting these headaches? You’re now on a modest cycle, and started amphetamine, so it’s not a big leap to at least suspect bp.

 

[MrKleen73]

Have you checked your blood pressure when getting these headaches? You’re now on a modest cycle, and started amphetamine, so it’s not a big leap to at least suspect bp.

Not yet, my old one broke a good while back, and hadn't bought one since I haven't been cycling to need to monitor it. I am going to get a large cuff band this weekend for that very reason. Normally I check it when I go to the store / pharmacy or the doctor, but I don't have one at home. Typically when my BP is up my ears get really red though which has not been the case, but I was thinking it could have something to do with that. That possibly the Adderall might have pushed it over the edge with the rest of everything since I am on the PED's now. So I was going to pick one up this weekend.

Right now though, if that is the case and something has to give, it will be the Adderall. I am pretty darn functional for having ADHD because my job plays into my strengths and the urgency of response keeps me from having a chance to get too distracted from doing what needs to be done. So will choose the recovery cycle over the medication if needed. However more than likely will add in the Carditone first if that is the case to see if I can continue both.

 

[MrKleen73]

Rather than waiting and going on a hunt for it this weekend I ordered one off of amazon that will be here tonight. So I can test this out tomorrow.

 

[Hyde]

Rather than waiting and going on a hunt for it this weekend I ordered one off of amazon that will be here tonight. So I can test this out tomorrow.

Smart move

 

[MrKleen73]

Smart move

I am still an old school shopper and often forget you can get everything on Amazon now. Used to waiting until I have time to run to the store which is why I was waiting until this weekend. I actually started thinking about it Wednesday. Archaic school of thought eh?

 

[Hyde]

I am still an old school shopper and often forget you can get everything on Amazon now. Used to waiting until I have time to run to the store which is why I was waiting until this weekend. I actually started thinking about it Wednesday. Archaic school of thought eh?

I actually cross shop prices on Amazon now with things at the store. Sometimes one will be radically cheaper than the other, either way.

 

[MrKleen73]

Well guys this weekend was kind of a recovery weekend. Saturday I went to a party at a friends and tripped over an area rug the corner rolled up on and fell toward a door jam. I caught myself with my left hand and the shoulder was sore all weekend so I did not go to the gym. Just rested and took some ibuprofen. It is feeling better now but Sunday when I intended to go lift it was still really sore so I opted to just limit all movement, rest and recover. I am feeling a good bit better today as far as that goes.

Saturday I am sure that calories were a little high but since I was at a party with my buddy who makes some of the best ribs in town I knew I was going to indulge. I fasted earlier in the day to control caloric intake a bit but chose to enjoy the ribs to the fullest.

Now for the not so great news. I got my BP cuff in and started testing. My reading Saturday evening was perfect at 121/78 so I went ahead and took all of my supps for the evening. That being 25mg TBol, and 12.5mg MK, and my BPC shot. When I got up in the morning Sunday I took my BPC, and my cardarine then tested BP about 20 minutes later. I have never seen my BP so high, almost up 30 points on each. I took a few to make sure I had not done something wrong and my highest was like 151/105, which to me was pretty alarming. My pulse was also racing at 95BPM which is pretty ridiculous resting heartrate. So I am wondering if the cardarine had anything to do with that. Either way I started my Carditone immediately. Last night I decided to drop the oral, but left the MK in the mix to see if there was any change this morning. I also did not take the Cardarine since it seemed to spike both my BP and my RHR. This morning BP was down to about 143/101 which is still way up there for me. My RHR was 76 so at least my heart rate had returned to normal levels but I still do not like the BP where it is at all. Going to keep up the Carditone and hopefully I will see an improvement. I don't really have any experience in this area though. I have never seen anything over mid 140's and mid 90's previously and that was during a much harsher cycle. I have never seen the triple digits on the diastolic and it has be a bit concerned. Maybe that isn't even that bad in the big picture but I am not really comfortable with it at all.

I have already temporarily dropped the TBol to see if that helps. I don't see a big drop there and already kind of think the bigger culprit might be the MK. So thinking I may take a day or two off of the MK to see if things drop at all. Also since first time using carditone, I do not know what it normally can do as far as bringing BP down. Can it knock 20 pts off on it's own? Should I consider calling off the the whole recovery cycle and just letting the shoulder heal at it's own pace? Should I try to find some telmisartan to keep things under control or is it likely the carditone may get it done?

What is a bit unnerving and makes me happy that @Hyde also mentioned the BP stuff when I was thinking about it is that even at the 151/105 I did not have a hypertension headache so I wonder what my BP was pushing at the point where I was having headaches. I haven't touched the adderall since Friday and am trying to adjust things. This morning I did not take the GW because I didn't want the boost in BP and heartrate until I have more of a plan of action here. That and I need to try taking my BP just a bit after my BPC shot and make sure it wasn't some sort of adrenal reaction to the shot. I think it was the GW but only one way to know.

I would appreciate any feedback from the guys who run cycles regularly and have had to combat higher BP. I would prefer to be able to complete the recovery cycle but not if I am really putting my health at risk. Also I am probably going to see if I can schedule a donation today. That should go a long way to dropping BP if it is partially HCT related. My last bloodwork showed me at 48 so it wouldn't be a leap to think it has probably climbed into the 50's with the recent increase in androgens.

On a different note, what a difference 4 years can make on your ability to handle a cycle... I am sure some of it is simply me not being in as good of shape but I have been fatter than this on cycle before and not gone this high. So might just be my new normal and any cycling may require prescription strength BP support from here on out.

Anyway, if anyone has any feedback from experience with fighting BP issues on cycle let me know. Also let me know if this isn't quite as bad as it seems to me at these numbers since this is a new area for me and honestly BP has never had to be much of a concern to me previously as it never really got much outside of pre-hypertensive before. Also trying to decide if I should take my Test shot tomorrow or start letting levels drop back down to my trt doses.

 

[Hyde]

I would keep your test levels up for now.

Take your levels first thing in the morning after hydrating but no stims.

Then pin BPC157 and retake 5-10 min later. Keep stims out of the picture still.

Then take it an hour later. Now you can have coffee if you choose.

If BPC isn’t the culprit (a transient response is fine enough, but if it’s still high an hour later then it’s an issue) and you are well hydrated and not overdoing caffeine, I would dose the 12.5mg Mk677 before bed and re-take pressure in the morning.

Based on it being high still now, it’s probably a combination of the testosterone, Tbol & Mk677’s water weight. MK definitely raises mine some, but you really don’t want to toss everything if there’s some of it that you can still utilize. Plus you really want to know specifically for later on.

Carditone should be good for at least a 8-10 point reduction for me at 1 tab twice daily.

Cardarine not only does not raise my BP, it actually makes it easier to breath and train when I use preWO orals that otherwise really drag me down from elevating BP. It’s not a miracle, but 10mg of GW is very helpful to not blowing my eyes out. I really doubt it’s the problem. But testing it one thing at a time is a way to know for sure for you.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah I agree with Hyde on this. It probably is the Test, T-bol, and MK. Carditone reduces mine by about 10. I’ve never heard of BPC raising blood pressure, but it’s worth checking afterwards just in case. Do you have any Telmisartan? If you do I would for sure just go ahead and take that every day until stable for a few days.

 

[MrKleen73]

Okay guys I need you to share some of your brain power with me for a second, about 2 months ago I had someone message me because they ran rad 140 and lgd at 15mg each and they tried to use clomid on cycle to prevent shutdown.

Total t dropped from 750ish down to the 200's, felt like crap, no interest in sex and can't maintain long enough to finish when he does have sex.

For privacy I'm not gonna share anything about who this person is unless he chooses to chime in.

I had him run 25clomid and 10nolva for 6 weeks. Nothing has changed in the way he feels or the performance issues. Bloodwork came back. Test is 437 and estrogen is double the reference range.

I'm kinda hesitant to say keep running pct. I'm thinking maybe use some exemestane at 12.5 EOD for a week or 2 first and see if lowering estrogen raises testosterone more.

Everything except thyroid hormones are in range, thyroid is a little low, and they didn't test free testosterone.

Anyone got some ideas.

Cailis is working as a bandaid at the moment but still not at full capacity.

I would keep your test levels up for now.

Take your levels first thing in the morning after hydrating but no stims.

Then pin BPC157 and retake 5-10 min later. Keep stims out of the picture still.

Then take it an hour later. Now you can have coffee if you choose.

If BPC isn’t the culprit (a transient response is fine enough, but if it’s still high an hour later then it’s an issue) and you are well hydrated and not overdoing caffeine, I would dose the 12.5mg Mk677 before bed and re-take pressure in the morning.

Based on it being high still now, it’s probably a combination of the testosterone, Tbol & Mk677’s water weight. MK definitely raises mine some, but you really don’t want to toss everything if there’s some of it that you can still utilize. Plus you really want to know specifically for later on.

Carditone should be good for at least a 8-10 point reduction for me at 1 tab twice daily.

Cardarine not only does not raise my BP, it actually makes it easier to breath and train when I use preWO orals that otherwise really drag me down from elevating BP. It’s not a miracle, but 10mg of GW is very helpful to not blowing my eyes out. I really doubt it’s the problem. But testing it one thing at a time is a way to know for sure for you.

@Hyde Good on the testosterone, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I like the layout for elimination testing with the BPC. I was planning something similar but did not consider hydrating prior to taking my BP. Good on the lack of stims, both of my last 2 were pre coffee or stimulants. Actually yesterday I chose not to have coffee and just relax for the day. So the last two readings should not have been affected by stimulants.

This morning was with no prior hydration, not exactly sure how that effects the reading IE higher or lower, but I had not had anything to drink yet. Was basically the first thing I did after going pee this morning.

Going to see if we can isolate the culprit first then see what we can do to improve the situation and find a happy medium where I can try to use as many of the tools in my arsenal as possible.

One possible thing would be adrenaline as a pain response the first morning. It hurt my shoulder a bit giving myself the shot, plus the benzyl alcohol in the bacteriostatic water always lights me up a little. That may have released some adrenaline or something to push my pulse to 95. To give a bit of history here I normally get about 5-10 minutes into aerobic activity before I even break 100BPM, then it takes a relatively high level of effort to get anything over 125BPM.

Yeah I agree with Hyde on this. It probably is the Test, T-bol, and MK. Carditone reduces mine by about 10. I’ve never heard of BPC raising blood pressure, but it’s worth checking afterwards just in case. Do you have any Telmisartan? If you do I would for sure just go ahead and take that every day until stable for a few days.

@gphagan1 No I don't have any telmisartan on hand and not sure where to get it other than my doctor who would probably be curious as to why I all the sudden need it. Never had issues with high enough BP to worry about it before. As mentioned I never really went very high before even on cycle. So this is the first time I have actually needed any.

Good news is I went to give blood this afternoon. Surprisingly my hematocrit was only 47 , and on a good note, my BP had gone down to 144/84 already prior to donating. So I assume it will probably be a little lower now. Although that top number being that high isn't ideal, I am far more comfortable seeing my diastolic at 84!!! If you have a recommendation outside of a doctor that I could pick some up quickly I would. Otherwise if this other stuff doesn't work I will talk to my PC and see if I can get them to hook me up without making me come in for a full blood workout up right now.

 

[Hyde]

I go to bed with a full blender bottle of water on my nightstand, partially so if I have any desire to drink when I wake to pee it’s there, but primarily so that before I even leave my bedroom I make sure to slam 16-24oz water.

This is something I learned from Brandon Lilly about a decade ago that has made a tremendous difference in feeling more energized/awake as soon as possible. You become dehydrated while sleeping and your blood is thickening and organs becoming less efficient. Drinking a pint or two first thing gets the gut ready to digest more effectively if you are going to eat soon, and actually quells initial hunger cravings if you intend to fast for a bit. It also helps get you filled back out if preparing for morning training.

Worst thing a steroid user wants to do is spend the entire morning dehydrated with elevated hematocrit, only starting on coffee (a diuretic) and keeping the kidneys working unnecessarily hard with thick blood pumping through their filters. It’s not ideal for energy for anyone.

Also, I wanted to say you can always drop testosterone next week if you feel it’s appropriate, but I would check the variables that are fast to assess first before lowering a long ester drug.

 

[MrKleen73]

I go to bed with a full blender bottle of water on my nightstand, partially so if I have any desire to drink when I wake to pee it’s there, but primarily so that before I even leave my bedroom I make sure to slam 16-24oz water.

This is something I learned from Brandon Lilly about a decade ago that has made a tremendous difference in feeling more energized/awake as soon as possible. You become dehydrated while sleeping and your blood is thickening and organs becoming less efficient. Drinking a pint or two first thing gets the gut ready to digest more effectively if you are going to eat soon, and actually quells initial hunger cravings if you intend to fast for a bit. It also helps get you filled back out if preparing for morning training.

Worst thing a steroid user wants to do is spend the entire morning dehydrated with elevated hematocrit, only starting on coffee (a diuretic) and keeping the kidneys working unnecessarily hard with thick blood pumping through their filters. It’s not ideal for energy for anyone.

Also, I wanted to say you can always drop testosterone next week if you feel it’s appropriate, but I would check the variables that are fast to assess first before lowering a long ester drug.

Makes sense to me. I do tend to take a drink with me to bed and often have a drink or two of it as I climb back in bed from going pee but what you are saying makes a lot of sense. So I will start doing that also. Slam a bit of water then go take my shower and stuff, and then check BP after that, or does a hot shower raise BP like a wet sauna will?

 

[Smont]

@Hyde Good on the testosterone, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I like the layout for elimination testing with the BPC. I was planning something similar but did not consider hydrating prior to taking my BP. Good on the lack of stims, both of my last 2 were pre coffee or stimulants. Actually yesterday I chose not to have coffee and just relax for the day. So the last two readings should not have been affected by stimulants.

This morning was with no prior hydration, not exactly sure how that effects the reading IE higher or lower, but I had not had anything to drink yet. Was basically the first thing I did after going pee this morning.

Going to see if we can isolate the culprit first then see what we can do to improve the situation and find a happy medium where I can try to use as many of the tools in my arsenal as possible.

One possible thing would be adrenaline as a pain response the first morning. It hurt my shoulder a bit giving myself the shot, plus the benzyl alcohol in the bacteriostatic water always lights me up a little. That may have released some adrenaline or something to push my pulse to 95. To give a bit of history here I normally get about 5-10 minutes into aerobic activity before I even break 100BPM, then it takes a relatively high level of effort to get anything over 125BPM.


@gphagan1 No I don't have any telmisartan on hand and not sure where to get it other than my doctor who would probably be curious as to why I all the sudden need it. Never had issues with high enough BP to worry about it before. As mentioned I never really went very high before even on cycle. So this is the first time I have actually needed any.

Good news is I went to give blood this afternoon. Surprisingly my hematocrit was only 47 , and on a good note, my BP had gone down to 144/84 already prior to donating. So I assume it will probably be a little lower now. Although that top number being that high isn't ideal, I am far more comfortable seeing my diastolic at 84!!! If you have a recommendation outside of a doctor that I could pick some up quickly I would. Otherwise if this other stuff doesn't work I will talk to my PC and see if I can get them to hook me up without making me come in for a full blood workout up right now.

How did you quote a post I made in my log and it ended up here lol.

I'm so confused, did I post it here by mistake

 

[MrKleen73]

I am magical!
I quoted that when I was in your log then saw others say what I was going to say and didn't post so it got saved in my multi-quote cache.

 

[MrKleen73]

So I think I have found a bit of user error with my BP monitor. I got home and tested and my BP was really high again. So I tested my right arm and it was looking a lot better. So I went back and forth and realized I was unintentionally wrapping a lot more slack on my left arm unintentionally. It was pushing itself down my shrunken biceps as it inflated to where the sensor wasn't on the artery where it needed to be. After snugging it up to where it should be my numbers looked more normal. Last 3 averaged 126/86 but I also did some calming breathing to get relaxed enough to get it there. Before calming myself down it was 135/90. So still something to address but nothing worrisome to me. I am going to keep monitoring and taking the carditone and in a day or so if readings are still reasonable I will bring the tbol back in.

 

[RegisterJr]

I don’t have any cycle experience, but I battled extreme BP issues for a few years. I can attest to the cuffs being very finicky. Try and duplicate your arm location and make sure your feet are not crossed and legs not pinched under.

You mentioned putting on weight. Something I never considered until it was tested for was sleep apnea. When I put on weight, I would have to fight for breaths in my sleep. It’s more common than you think (assuming you haven’t already been diagnosed). Anyway, when I was interested for the sleep apnea, I was waking up 140-150/100 every morning even with Losartan.

Just a thought that it may also be other things raising it a few points here and there and not just cycle stuff.

 

[MrKleen73]

I haven't been officially diagnosed but my wife said I used to stop breathing and gasp for air. So I am pretty sure I have it although I seem to have calmed down a bit. I will ask her if I still do it.

 

[RegisterJr]

I haven't been officially diagnosed but my wife said I used to stop breathing and gasp for air. So I am pretty sure I have it although I seem to have calmed down a bit. I will ask her if I still do it.

Mine wasn’t noticeable as far as sound goes. When I tested, I was averaging 23 events an hour, or whatever their measurable timeline was. Snoring can be an indicator, but depending on how much you’re cutting off air will dictate how audible it is. It may be worth talking to your doctor about. It’s a major contributor to BP.

 

[Smont]

So I think I have found a bit of user error with my BP monitor. I got home and tested and my BP was really high again. So I tested my right arm and it was looking a lot better. So I went back and forth and realized I was unintentionally wrapping a lot more slack on my left arm unintentionally. It was pushing itself down my shrunken biceps as it inflated to where the sensor wasn't on the artery where it needed to be. After snugging it up to where it should be my numbers looked more normal. Last 3 averaged 126/86 but I also did some calming breathing to get relaxed enough to get it there. Before calming myself down it was 135/90. So still something to address but nothing worrisome to me. I am going to keep monitoring and taking the carditone and in a day or so if readings are still reasonable I will bring the tbol back in.

I'm definitely not an expert on this subject but this is my understanding of taking your blood pressure according to my doctor or actually I should say in my old doctor but...

If your right handed you want to test your blood pressure with your left arm and vice versa the cuff should go on your non-dominant arm, you also want to get it right the first time because the first reading is going to be the most accurate once you've put that pressure on it does something to the way that the veins or the vessels or whatever open and contract and the more times you test the less accurate you're reading is going to be.

Wake up in the morning first thing before you have any stress test your non-dominant arm feet flat on the floor while sitting in a chair and that's going to be your most accurate reading for the day that's not influenced by outside stressors

 

[MrKleen73]

Mine wasn’t noticeable as far as sound goes. When I tested, I was averaging 23 events an hour, or whatever their measurable timeline was. Snoring can be an indicator, but depending on how much you’re cutting off air will dictate how audible it is. It may be worth talking to your doctor about. It’s a major contributor to BP.

I will have to check into it. I can't imagine it is easy sleeping in that mask though.

I'm definitely not an expert on this subject but this is my understanding of taking your blood pressure according to my doctor or actually I should say in my old doctor but...

If your right handed you want to test your blood pressure with your left arm and vice versa the cuff should go on your non-dominant arm, you also want to get it right the first time because the first reading is going to be the most accurate once you've put that pressure on it does something to the way that the veins or the vessels or whatever open and contract and the more times you test the less accurate you're reading is going to be.

Wake up in the morning first thing before you have any stress test your non-dominant arm feet flat on the floor while sitting in a chair and that's going to be your most accurate reading for the day that's not influenced by outside stressors

Makes sense, I will put that into practice as well. Interestingly enough this morning my BP was back up a bit 145/93. I am sure due to more water getting into the blood giving it higher volume again. Not anything to get freaked out about but also enough that I won't be considering adding the TBol back in unless it drops and a bit and stays down. I do still intend to take my shot this evening when I get home.

Exercise last night was just an hour walk since I donated I didn't want to get my heart rate up.

Nutrition was a bust yesterday, no legitimate reason other than I forgot my food for work at home, and never got caught back up. Protein wasn't too low so I am not beating myself up over it. I have my food with me today and it will be a better day in that regard.

PT this morning was good, she was happy with the leap in progress I made since last Thursday after the doctor said I could explore my range of motion more. Even jumped ahead a little and let me use some very light weights for a couple exercises.

 

[Smont]

You need to get on a ARB, your kinda in the danger zone. Having your blood pressure that high it's not like immediate danger but high blood pressure is the silent killer for a lot of men having even slightly elevated BP over a period of years has a negative effect on your kidney function. When you see bodybuilders with their kidneys failing it's actually because of years of moderate to high blood pressure.

A little 40-80mg telmasartan everyday will bring your blood pressure down make you drop some water weight and help you lean out. It's got a bunch of other benefits too but it's definitely worth looking into for anyone whose blood pressure gets up in the 140 is over 90 area. Once mine even approaches 140 I start telmasartan or valsartan. Whatever I have on hand. I don't know why but sometimes my source has one and sometimes he has the other. I guess it just depends on whatever old man he robbed the week before lol

 

[Smont]

Something you can do right now is start taking a baby aspirin and increase your water intake. Those will help to a very small degree