I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

Has anyone tried Bob's Red Mill lecithin granules? Fearn is $8.00/lb, but if you order 25lbs for $119.40, Bob's is $4.78/lb. According to the label, it has about the same amount of choline (468mg) per 15g as Fearn (450mg). I haven't seen any mention of phosphatide % or de-oiled, but I'll email them and see what I can find out (COA, etc).

$119.40 will last you a year plus a few days, or $0.32 per day, at 4tbsp. At 3tbsp, it's only $0.24 a day, and will last you about 500 days. At 5tbsp, it'll last you just over 300 days at $0.40 a day.

I'll see what I can find out, but for those of us who consider the granules to be a long-term staple supplement, it may be a great way to save some money.
 
kdubson14 said:
Taking a break from SL after ~10? months on @ 5 tbsp. Curious if I drop some water
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Let us know. A few people have reported dropping water weight and increased urination after cessation. I didn't really notice either of those right off the bat, but after being off a while I did notice a drop in muscle fullness and endurance.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Has anyone tried Bob's Red Mill lecithin granules? Fearn is $8.00/lb, but if you order 25lbs for $119.40, Bob's is $4.78/lb. According to the label, it has about the same amount of choline (468mg) per 15g as Fearn (450mg). I haven't seen any mention of phosphatide % or de-oiled, but I'll email them and see what I can find out (COA, etc).

$119.40 will last you a year plus a few days, or $0.32 per day, at 4tbsp. At 3tbsp, it's only $0.24 a day, and will last you about 500 days. At 5tbsp, it'll last you just over 300 days at $0.40 a day.

I'll see what I can find out, but for those of us who consider the granules to be a long-term staple supplement, it may be a great way to save some money.
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I've been curious about these as well. Bob's Red Mill usually has very high quality products. Looking forward to what you find out.
 
I dropped SL last week after using 2-4 TBS/day over the last 10 months or so...not sure about the peeing thing, but vascularity seems to be increasing...
 
im running through 6 tubs of fearn at 5tbs/day (sometimes just 3 on off days though) and will report back my experience, if I noticed anything as well
 
schizm said:
I dropped SL last week after using 2-4 TBS/day over the last 10 months or so...not sure about the peeing thing, but vascularity seems to be increasing...
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Mine certainly has.
 
Just took my first 3 tablespoons of Fearn before I go and workout in an hour. Should I be taking any more later in the day? And approximately how many days before I start noticing the PA's effects?
 
nick76 said:
Just took my first 3 tablespoons of Fearn before I go and workout in an hour. Should I be taking any more later in the day? And approximately how many days before I start noticing the PA's effects?
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3 tbsp is plenty but some are going up to 5 tbsp.

Main thing you'll notice right away is muscle fullness and pumps.
 
Lynks8 said:
I've been curious about these as well. Bob's Red Mill usually has very high quality products. Looking forward to what you find out.
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I just got an email back from them saying that their granules are de-oiled, and that they will get back to me about what, if any, standardization they have, and that they don't give out COAs.

Being that the choline content listed on the label is about the same as Fearn, I assume that the PC will also be about the same, and since they're still de-oiled lecithin granules, the PA should also be in the same range (4-7%). I'm curious to see what their response is though.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I just got an email back from them saying that their granules are de-oiled, and that they will get back to me about what, if any, standardization they have, and that they don't give out COAs.

Being that the choline content listed on the label is about the same as Fearn, I assume that the PC will also be about the same, and since they're still de-oiled lecithin granules, the PA should also be in the same range (4-7%). I'm curious to see what their response is though.
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Interesting. I'll prob stick with Fearn myself, but definitely appreciate the legwork getting this sorted out for others.
 
GreekTheBrick said:
How's that guys, isnt supposed to be the opposite? I am confused
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Well, PA has not been touted as improving vascularity per se.

Rather it is beneficial for increasing mTOR, endurance, muscle fullness (nitrogen retention...and likely some water weight with that), and at high doses I would argue some fat loss over time due to high choline (I have a study laying around here somewhere).

For me, I didn't notice a decrease in vascularity while on, but after being off of it a couple weeks I did notice I was more vascular than when I first started.

However, I'm not too inclined to think cause + effect because my training over that time period likely led to increased vascularity on its own, which became more noticeable once I dropped some water weight.
 
kboxer7 said:
Well, PA has not been touted as improving vascularity per se.

Rather it is beneficial for increasing mTOR, endurance, muscle fullness (nitrogen retention...and likely some water weight with that), and at high doses I would argue some fat loss over time due to high choline (I have a study laying around here somewhere).

For me, I didn't notice a decrease in vascularity while on, but after being off of it a couple weeks I did notice I was more vascular than when I first started.

However, I'm not too inclined to think cause + effect because my training over that time period likely led to increased vascularity on its own, which became more noticeable once I dropped some water weight.
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Thanks for explaining. I have some cans coming from the US so I can test it myself after summer is over. If I recall PA levels peak 3hours after ingestion and stay peaked for 4hours?
 
Rise then plateau between 1-3 hours, peak at 3rd hour, "remains elevated above baseline" for 4(or was it 7) hours after that

But that study was done with an isolated PA source. None have been done using SL as the source which may have different digestion and absorption kinetics.
 
kdubson14 said:
Rise then plateau between 1-3 hours, peak at 3rd hour, "remains elevated above baseline" for 4(or was it 7) hours after that

But that study was done with an isolated PA source. None have been done using SL as the source which may have different digestion and absorption kinetics.
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Great info, thanks! SL absorption and thus peaking PA levels must be definitely lower, at least based on reason
 
GreekTheBrick said:
Great info, thanks! SL absorption and thus peaking PA levels must be definitely lower, at least based on reason
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Yeah no one knows for sure what that looks like, but logic would dictate that slower digestion and thus delayed peak blood plasma concentrations of PA would come into play.

Dose 45min or so out from your workout. Seems to work just fine for most.
 
kboxer7 said:
Interesting. I'll prob stick with Fearn myself, but definitely appreciate the legwork getting this sorted out for others.
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I just heard back that They're not standardized for phosphatides, or anything else. Still, it's de-oiled lecithin granules, it should still have 4-7% PA. The listed choline content is also right up there with Fearn, and that means that the PC should also be about the same. If you're running 5tbsp/day, you can save over $0.25 per day, or almost $100 a year compared to the Fearn granules. I'll give them a try soon.
 
alright guys starting phospha muscle today i was using the cutler king with a tspoon of lecitin granules preworkout now just gunna go with phospha see if theres a difference
 
Honestly struggling to get 3 spoons of SL down, tried just putting it in water and chugging, works better than plain eating it for now. What are your favorite ways to keep the granules down?
 
nick76 said:
Honestly struggling to get 3 spoons of SL down, tried just putting it in water and chugging, works better than plain eating it for now. What are your favorite ways to keep the granules down?
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I've heard a lot of people mixing them in yogurt or straight into their protein shakes.
 
kpeaceoutbye said:
So why would we all stick with PA if it makes us more bloated and there is no strength drop off? Isn't the goal to always be more vascular/cut/etc?
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He's saying the gains he made off it our keepable. Tons of things are like that TTA, yohim, etc will give slight bloat, but fat loss effects are worth it
 
so a little weird after switching from 1 spoon of granules and Cutler to just Phospha i hit 405X5 on squats today and weight in general have felt really light

i havent gone over 365 on squats for a long time as well
 
TheIronAsylum said:
so a little weird after switching from 1 spoon of granules and Cutler to just Phospha i hit 405X5 on squats today and weight in general have felt really light

i havent gone over 365 on squats for a long time as well
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Prob because Cutler is underdosed : )
 
Is that fine to use SL around 20g with your preworkout around 30 mins before training? I saw they advise to use 1 hour before but I eat 1 hour before training so :D
Does SL need 1 hour to digest? Because strange that I used in the last 2 days with my preworkout and neither of the trainings were as good as before. But could be alsi because of a new preworkout too. C4 extreme and I used no explode before with some added citrullin and so on.
Do you think it could not let digest the preworkout well with mixed together? I am just thinking what could have happened
Thanks guys
Also I am 114kg in competition shape, so would you say I need to use more then 20g?
 
5 tbs? that is 50 gramms
Anyways do i need to take it on off days? even if I train 5 times a week? and when would you suggest if yes
thanks
 
lebronadam23 said:
5 tbs? that is 50 gramms
Anyways do i need to take it on off days? even if I train 5 times a week? and when would you suggest if yes
thanks
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Yes to off days. Increased mTOR every day = more MPS/muscle

Training days I split. 1tbsp am and 2 tbsp pre workout (~ 2hr pre workout)

Off days~ 1.5tbsp am 1.5 tbsp pm
 
lebronadam23 said:
5 tbs? that is 50 gramms
Anyways do i need to take it on off days? even if I train 5 times a week? and when would you suggest if yes
thanks
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5 tbsp is actually 37.5 grams.
 
Thanks for the info, muscleup. I may pick some up just to try. I will say I bought some of the vitamin shoppe brand and they were lighter in color and didn't taste quite the same as Fearn, despite listing similar phosphatide content. I don't know if color and taste have any relevance, but I returned it for more Fearn since I know it's working.
 
I'm no sciency guy, but what does this new study on PA reveal: (add http and www to this) jissn.com/content/12/1/32

Here is a line from the conclusion: "Furthermore, these data demonstrate that PA ingestion tends to increase MPS levels in vivo relative to the fasted condition."
 
z-konzept-nutrition lecithin-granulate

ABOUT THIS PROJECT
Soy lecithin is a mixture of phospholipids, naturally occurring fatty molecules, extracted out of soy beans. The main nutrient found in soy lecithin is phosphatidylcholine, part of the membrane surrounding your cells and one of the most important structural building blocks of a living cell. Phosphatidylcholine is the single most common form of choline provided by foods. Choline is the backbone of a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine. Our premium quality Lecithin Granulate contains 30% phosphatidylcholine and 57% linoleic acid, a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid that contributes to the maintenance of normal blood cholesterol levels.

-

as you think about this product? brand?
 
Since I've switched from Swanson soy lecithin to Fearn soy lecithin my weight has increased by 3-4lbs.

Huge difference from the two! I'm ordering three more tubs of fearn
 
tyga tyga said:
Since I've switched from Swanson soy lecithin to Fearn soy lecithin my weight has increased by 3-4lbs.

Huge difference from the two! I'm ordering three more tubs of fearn
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Good feedback. I have stuck with Fearn from the beginning.
 
The swanson 454g? I also use that one but in my country I havent found any other.
I saw NOW around 900g version on amazon
Is that any good? Price is better then swanson at least here in my country
 
Im still not sure what im supposed to be feeling. I've noticed weight gain but I've been bridging a lot of natty anabolics so silly me I can't really tell if it's "working" or not.
Main things I notice were a slight weight increase, more of a work capacity and im ALWAYS HUNGRY which isn't good for this recomp :)
 
ELROCK said:
Not sure why everyone isn't just using Fearn's.
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I'll never switch from fearn now UNLESS another manufacture has a higher % of phosphatides.

I'm a helluva lot leaner while eating 2160 kcals a day (keep in mind I'm only 145lb)

260g cho
155g pro
60g fat

^^ these were my macros @ 155lb. I did however just reverse out of a 3 month cut. The reverse has been SLOW as well.

But the fearn is absolutely helping. I have muscle fullness on a day to day basis. Strength has come up slightly and again, I'm leaner/fuller at the above macros.
 
tyga tyga said:
I'll never switch from fearn now UNLESS another manufacture has a higher % of phosphatides.

I'm a helluva lot leaner while eating 2160 kcals a day (keep in mind I'm only 145lb)

260g cho
155g pro
60g fat

^^ these were my macros @ 155lb. I did however just reverse out of a 3 month cut. The reverse has been SLOW as well.

But the fearn is absolutely helping. I have muscle fullness on a day to day basis. Strength has come up slightly and again, I'm leaner/fuller at the above macros.
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Sounds good :)
 
forgive me for not reading through the entire thread, but I have a few questions... just got my bottle a few weeks ago and planned to start today, how are you guys taking it? can you just throw it in a PWO shake or just spoon feed it preworkout?
 
JONimal said:
forgive me for not reading through the entire thread, but I have a few questions... just got my bottle a few weeks ago and planned to start today, how are you guys taking it? can you just throw it in a PWO shake or just spoon feed it preworkout?
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most popular dosing is 3tbs (22.5g) pre workout and 2 scoops (15g) post workout. 5 tbs a day!

You can put I in a shake but most people toss it in their mouth and swallow because of the texture/taste. that's what I do. not a fan of the texture as it sticks to your teeth and such but otherwise if you don't mind it chew em up ;)
 
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