I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[NoAddedHmones]

I'll trust it when information on the Activator patent/trademark is released stating the PA content %, with the assumption that the patent/TM is not held by BPI/Cutler. If it is, then 3rd party testing would be essential for me personally.

Just wondering, has Fearns or any of these granules been third party tested by anyone? How can we be sure whats on the label is accurate?

 

[ma70]

Just took my first two tbsp of Fearn SL pre-workout. Can't wait to see what this stuff does. Doesn't really taste bad and the aftertaste isn't bad either (I like it). Tastes like nuts in my mouth

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Just wondering, has Fearns or any of these granules been third party tested by anyone? How can we be sure whats on the label is accurate?

De-oiled soy lecithin granules will inherently have a range of PA content that is consistent with what Fearn, Optima, Global River, LEF, etc, say they have (5-9% PA). Just dose your PA from granules with that in mind, and be sure to get at least 750mg calculated with 5% PA to be sure, which is 15g (2tbsp).

 

[roy_jones]

Whats your situation? Why havent you gone with a product that lists itself as 97% (or thereabouts) phosphatides?

My lecithin granules are 97% phosphatides. After a fair amount of reading, it seems like all granules should have similar phospholipid profiles regardless of their branding. I got caught up in the tide of people who only use Fearn because of the PA listing on the bottle.

 

[SuppJunkie]

Just ordered two more bottles of King 60 cap bottles. I got two of them for under 50 bucks shipped which I thought was a good deal. I was going to try the phosphamuscle but it was 60 bucks plus shipping. Maybe next time. Anyway I have the fearns granules as well. What is the best way to stack the king and the granules. Looking for both training and non training days. Thanks guys

 

[NewAgeMayan]

My advice? Dont stack the granules with King, especially if youve run neither before, you wont know where you are with either product otherwise.

Id start with King at the recommended dose and see how you go from there.

 

[SuppJunkie]

My advice? Dont stack the granules with King, especially if youve run neither before, you wont know where you are with either product otherwise.

Id start with King at the recommended dose and see how you go from there.

Been running the king for several months. New to the granules

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Been running the king for several months. New to the granules

Ah gotcha...Id start off with maybe 1-2tbsp of granules /day, dose when you dose King. Increase dose from there if you see fit.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

My lecithin granules are 97% phosphatides. After a fair amount of reading, it seems like all granules should have similar phospholipid profiles regardless of their branding. I got caught up in the tide of people who only use Fearn because of the PA listing on the bottle.

The macros are different on fearn compared to the others. Not substantially, but i started using this while on keto and fearn had the lowest carb count. If you run any keto type diet, i would stick with fearn.

 

[roy_jones]

The macros are different on fearn compared to the others. Not substantially, but i started using this while on keto and fearn had the lowest carb count. If you run any keto type diet, i would stick with fearn.

The macros are listed differently on Fearn, but they're using the same basic raw material as everyone else. Shouldn't be any difference between Fearn and other lecithin granules, including Optima.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

The macros are listed differently on Fearn, but they're using the same basic raw material as everyone else. Shouldn't be any difference between Fearn and other lecithin granules, including Optima.

All i know is the carb count is different. When your limited to less than 30 g of carbs a day, and i would aim for 15 on average, those extra carbs from a supplement that is in addition to food matters.

I also realize this is splitting hairs for most who dont run that diet, including myself as ive changed to a different regimen, but for those who do run keto, that is something to keep in mind. There are carbs in it and some have more than others.

 

[Joedoubledose]

So in the admin sponsored post about ARA vs PA I came across someone saying that PA is an emulsifier , is that true ? Would it work synergistically with ARA by working just like GMS? That'd be awesome

 

[kdubson14]

Yes

 

[kboxer7]

5 days on Fearn SL @ 4 tbsp. 2 - 2 1/2 tbsp pre workout, 2 after.

Though I was skeptical I now have the following to report:

1. Noticeable muscle fullness & visible size increase. Most notable in upper arms. Presumably from increased glycogen retention.
2. Short term increase in appetite shortly after ingestion. Not bothersome and goes away within the hour.

No change in macros, and temporarily off all supps except staples (protein, fish oil, beta alanine, etc). No change in DOMS or recovery.


If anyone is interested I'll take an actual arm measurement or two since I kept track prior to starting SL. Really wanting to stack with ArA (never ran that before). Is X-Factor as good as X-Gels???


#ThemGains

 

[NewAgeMayan]

If you already have xfactor thats fine but there are usually better deals to be found on xgels (they are both pretty much of a muchness ingredient wise)

And yeah definitely keep tabs on body measures

 

[kbayne]

So in the admin sponsored post about ARA vs PA I came across someone saying that PA is an emulsifier , is that true ? Would it work synergistically with ARA by working just like GMS? That'd be awesome

Not PA but Soy Lecithin/Lecithin Granules will work as an emulsifier for ArA.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Not PA but Soy Lecithin/Lecithin Granules will work as an emulsifier for ArA.

Crap my bad I meant to say SL not PA , but that's awesome

 

[kbayne]

5 days on Fearn SL @ 4 tbsp. 2 - 2 1/2 tbsp pre workout, 2 after.

Though I was skeptical I now have the following to report:

1. Noticeable muscle fullness & visible size increase. Most notable in upper arms. Presumably from increased glycogen retention.
2. Short term increase in appetite shortly after ingestion. Not bothersome and goes away within the hour.

No change in macros, and temporarily off all supps except staples (protein, fish oil, beta alanine, etc). No change in DOMS or recovery.


If anyone is interested I'll take an actual arm measurement or two since I kept track prior to starting SL. Really wanting to stack with ArA (never ran that before). Is X-Factor as good as X-Gels???


#ThemGains

X-factor and X-gels are the same.

Go with either and you'll be good.

 

[abformulations]

X-factor and X-gels are the same.

Go with either and you'll be good.

Only difference is pill size lol

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Ive tried maybe half a dozen soyl brands now, and Fearn is definitely the creamiest in flavour and wet-texture.

Kind of enjoying trialing different brands, seeing if there is any noticeable difference between them in terms of flavour, and effects. Nature's Plus will be on my next rotation I think.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Ive tried maybe half a dozen soyl brands now, and Fearn is definitely the creamiest in flavour and wet-texture.

Kind of enjoying trialing different brands, seeing if there is any noticeable difference between them in terms of flavour, and effects. Nature's Plus will be on my next rotation I think.

Nice. I've only tried Fearn so far, but I have some Optima ready for when my current Fearn tub is empty, and hopefully the sample of powder from Global River is on the way.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Nice. I've only tried Fearn so far, but I have some Optima ready for when my current Fearn tub is empty, and hopefully the sample of powder from Global River is on the way.

Im certainly not going to delude myself into believing one brands product will give me significantly better gainz than another, but you never know, may get slightly better pumps/muscle fullness with one more than another.

I cant recall exactly, but did you previously look into getting product from the American Lecithin Company? Im sure De_eB recommended them way back in the bbcom thread...and you have posted about them recently?

 

[doogans]

Pulled the trigger and night some Fearn. Will be running it w alongside Transdermal Ep1c.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Im certainly not going to delude myself into believing one brands product will give me significantly better gainz than another, but you never know, may get slightly better pumps/muscle fullness with one more than another.

I cant recall exactly, but did you previously look into getting product from the American Lecithin Company? Im sure De_eB recommended them way back in the bbcom thread...and you have posted about them recently?

I haven't looked into their products specifically, but I did use one of their papers/articles that listed the typical PA content of soy lecithin (both de-oiled and liquid) to determine how much PA there is on average in the lecithin granules. I'll look into specific products from them.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I haven't looked into their products specifically, but I did use one of their papers/articles that listed the typical PA content of soy lecithin (both de-oiled and liquid) to determine how much PA there is on average in the lecithin granules. I'll look into specific products from them.

Cool let us know if you find anything; De_eB recomended 'ALCOLEC' specifically, but I didnt see any specific products mentioned at the ALC site, so maybe its something they provide to other commercial brands?

 

[roy_jones]

Is it placebo effect that I thought I responded to PA as quickly as I did? I truly thought I could feel it's effects the first day I took it.

 

[roy_jones]

Depends on what specifically you mean by 'feel it' I reckon.

Myself, I am confident I experience perceivable muscle fullness, at the right dose, within 48hrs of having 'the right dose'.

I didnt experience much in the way of acute strength increase and mental benefits as others have noted; the former seemed to kick in most noticeably for me after maybe a week or two?

Are you doubting your experiences are 'genuine' due to a drop off or something?

Not doubting due to any drop off, as I'm still only on my fifth day. I took 2 grams of PA pre workout the first few days and have backed down to 1.5 grams.

I don't notice any strength or cognitive benefits, but the muscle fullness and pump seemed clear. Part of my suspicion is that I have increased DOMS this week and since that isn't mentioned as an effect, I'm wondering whether I've just been working out harder unconsciously due to placebo.

It's also possible I just didn't believe a natural supplement could seem to have acute effects.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

hmmm, I dunno man, Im not sure how one could placebo-up a pump and/or musclefullness?

Unless, of course, you are erroneously attributing those phenomena to the PA, as you hinted at (youve been 'working out harder').

Im not entirely sure of the precise biological mechanisms by which PA can generate muscle fullness, but suffice to say the effect seems to be somewhat universal amongst users, and often appearing quickly. Given that what you are reportedly experiencing is a common genuine phenomena due to PA, it is difficult to say definitively one way or another if its 'merely' placebo; its not like you are reporting an anamolous effect, though.

 

[kboxer7]

If you already have xfactor thats fine but there are usually better deals to be found on xgels (they are both pretty much of a muchness ingredient wise) And yeah definitely keep tabs on body measures

Thanks.

Took an updated measurement on biceps:
- measured the morning after a non-bicep training day so as to not have any post workout inflammation skew results
- took 2 measurements (one by myself & another by a friend) to reduce risk of bias & human error
- measurements taken flexed, first thing AM before lifting anything
- diet at maintenance

After 5 days on Fearn 2.5 tbsp pre 2 post.....

BICEPS FLEXED PRE SL
15 1/2 "


BICEPS FLEXED POST (5days SL)

15 3/4 "

 

[Misfit28]

It's been a little over two weeks now since I started SL at 2 tbsp per day. I'm feeling strength from something, but not sure what, LOL. I took my last MyoSynergy caps pre-workout today, along with 6 X-Gels, 1 scoop of Focus XT and 3 tbsp. of SL. I took another tbsp. or so with my post-workout meal.

My energy was great, rest times between sets seemed to be reduced. Felt strong and had great focus on form today.

I have little to no DOMS lately either. I might attribute that to the MyoSynergy, though. I'm also Squatting and Benching three times per week. Deadlift is only once per week right now, heavy singles. I also work at UPS M-F.

I'm starting to wonder about taking (-) epi with ArA. Isn't (-) epi an antioxidant/anti-inflammatory?

Also feeling a bit of nausea before and after workout. It might be the ArA, though.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Misfit, Im sure jiigzz answered a query re the epi + ara in the main ara thread, Im sure it was in the last 5-10pgs?

 

[kbayne]

The (-)-epi dose in myosynergy and other products won't have a negative impact on ArA.

 

[Misfit28]

The (-)-epi dose in myosynergy and other products won't have a negative impact on ArA.

Thanks, I was looking around and didn't see it anywhere!

 

[GetRekt]

If this stuff increases muscle protein synthesis, then why would we dose pre workout, and not before a bolus dose of protein? Or does it have a longer lasting effect?

 

[GetRekt]

Thanks.

Took an updated measurement on biceps:
- measured the morning after a non-bicep training day so as to not have any post workout inflammation skew results
- took 2 measurements (one by myself & another by a friend) to reduce risk of bias & human error
- measurements taken flexed, first thing AM before lifting anything
- diet at maintenance

After 5 days on Fearn 2.5 tbsp pre 2 post.....

BICEPS FLEXED PRE SL
15 1/2 "


BICEPS FLEXED POST (5days SL)

15 3/4 "

What about strength/endurance gains? Looking bigger is great, but the gains that actually last when you come off is what I'm more curious about. Definitely good stuff though.

 

[kboxer7]

What about strength/endurance gains? Looking bigger is great, but the gains that actually last when you come off is what I'm more curious about. Definitely good stuff though.

I agree. The acute size increase is obviously not from increased muscle but rather glycogen retention. I have experienced significant PRs on leg press and bench given the short time frame as well as adding extra reps on most lifts. DOMS & recovery thus far have not been improved.

I'm not currently on any other supps except staples, and I'm pretty well in tune with my body so I feel comfortable in at least saying SL has improved muscle endurance to some degree, which in turn has led to greater PRs.

The true test will be seeing how this plays out after a month or two.

Regards,

 

[The_Old_Guy]

If this stuff increases muscle protein synthesis, then why would we dose pre workout, and not before a bolus dose of protein? Or does it have a longer lasting effect?

Phosphatidic acid enhances mTOR signaling and resistance exercise induced hypertrophy. Jacob M Wilson et al.

We have previously examined the absorption kinetics of 1.5 g PA and observed an increase in plasma concentration after 30 minutes. PA concentrations appear to plateau between 1 and 3 hours following ingestion while peaking at 3 hours following ingestion. After 7 hours, PA concentrations remained elevated. In addition, LPA demonstrated a bimodal absorption kinetic with plasma concentration peaking at 1 hour, returning to baseline at 2 hours, and peaking again at 3 hours [17]. Thus, exogenous elevations of PA may be provided through oral supplementation, while endogenous production could be fostered through a resistance training stimulus. Theoretically, the combination of the two could result in greater skeletal muscle hypertrophy than resistance training alone.

The PA group received 750 mg of soy-derived PA (Mediator®, Chemi Nutra, White Bear Lake, MN) per day, while the PLA group received 750 mg of rice flour, each delivered in 5 visually identical capsules. On RT days, participants consumed 450 mg of their respective supplement 30 minutes prior to RT and 300 mg immediately following RT with 24 g of hydrolyzed collagen protein powder from beef skin (Peptiplus XB agglomerated, Gelita AG, Eberbach, Germany) mixed with 500 ml water. The protein supplement was provided in order to ensure control for post-exercise meals between groups and hydrolyzed collagen was chosen as an incomplete protein source low in leucine (3.2 weight%). On non-RT days, participants consumed 450 mg of their respective supplement with breakfast and the remaining 300 mg with dinner.

h t t p : / / w w w .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066292/

 

[Danes]

If this stuff increases muscle protein synthesis, then why would we dose pre workout, and not before a bolus dose of protein? Or does it have a longer lasting effect?

PA will work even taking after workout or anytime u want but those docs said it would be even better effect taking prior workout. Why? When exercising(physical stressor )some of enzymes which are released would improve convertion from PA to LPA . That means even more mTOR release

 

[Danes]

I'm starting to wonder about taking (-) epi with ArA. Isn't (-) epi an antioxidant/anti-inflammatory?.

Sent u PM.
could not paste the link here

 

[Danes]

ergo-log.com/lecihearing.html

Good news guys

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Soy Lecithin: Its the Fearntain of Youth!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

That was good Mayan

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Soy Lecithin: Its the Fearntain of Youth!

Take soy lecithin for OPTIMAl health. Do it NOW, don't be LEFt behind.

 

[fatty]

Just wondering, each capsule of this product show 140mg of phosphatidylcholine. Is this what one is looking for? So in essence, I would have to take roughly 10 capsules a day?

 

[TheIronAsylum]

do you guys cycle this o rjust keep taking for as long as you want? Why would i need to cycle King?


also think i may grab some granules to add to king almost gone through the first tub

 

[NewAgeMayan]

do you guys cycle this o rjust keep taking for as long as you want? Why would i need to cycle King?


also think i may grab some granules to add to king almost gone through the first tub

At this stage I have no intention of cycling the granules, as far as Im concerned they are a staple.

May need to cycle King due to the Niagen?

 

[TheIronAsylum]

At this stage I have no intention of cycling the granules, as far as Im concerned they are a staple.

May need to cycle King due to the Niagen?

yea im not sure i would really like some clarity on that thought because i have like 4 tubs was just gonna use them all in a row

 

[Danes]

At this stage I have no intention of cycling the granules, as far as Im concerned they are a staple.

May need to cycle King due to the Niagen?

Totaly agreed.
No need to cycle PA at all. Longer you take=better results. Longer period with mTOR activation=better results

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Take soy lecithin for OPTIMAl health. Do it NOW, don't be LEFt behind.

Ok, you win

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Totaly agreed.
No need to cycle PA at all. Longer you take=better results. Longer period with mTOR activation=better results

This.

Ok, you win

With lecithin granules, we all win.