iron addict
Banned
Will you agree to the premise that it is possible for the body to make adaptations that make the growth process more efficient?
Iron Addict
Iron Addict
HELP PLEASE Workout partner is a puss & wont squat help me convince him 2
- Thread starter bigmark1972
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iron addict
Banned
jjjd
I was asking Bobo, you are disqualified yourself from my responses after revealing you thought I believed there was "magic" invloved-lol.
Iron Addict
I was asking Bobo, you are disqualified yourself from my responses after revealing you thought I believed there was "magic" invloved-lol.
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Could you be more specific?
That is such a general question. The body can adapt to almost anything given time.
iron addict
Banned
Do you believe the body is able to become more efficient at synthesising protein?
And the body will never adapt to gross level overtraining, be it 50 sets of high intensity lifting or trying to run 20 miles a day, or consuming poisons, or stress levels of many types above and beyond what it is capable of. It will just break-down....
Iron Addict
And the body will never adapt to gross level overtraining, be it 50 sets of high intensity lifting or trying to run 20 miles a day, or consuming poisons, or stress levels of many types above and beyond what it is capable of. It will just break-down....
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
OMG, we're talking reality here.
Why don't you just spit out what you have to say instead of asking all these generalized questions. Whats your theory IA, that squats enable the body to increase protein synthesis? ALL exercises do so what is special about squats?
So whats next, only squats and deadlifts have a magical ability at increasing protein synthesis? Ok, we're all listening. Now back it up with some sort of evidence based on some sort of literature.
Why don't you just spit out what you have to say instead of asking all these generalized questions. Whats your theory IA, that squats enable the body to increase protein synthesis? ALL exercises do so what is special about squats?
So whats next, only squats and deadlifts have a magical ability at increasing protein synthesis? Ok, we're all listening. Now back it up with some sort of evidence based on some sort of literature.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
:frustrate :think: :hammer: :rant: :trout:
iron addict
Banned
OK, it sounds as if you are willing to admit that the under the correct stresses, the body will in fact increase it's ability to synthesize protein. I will also have to assume that you have read the large body of evidence (since you are so keen on studies) that has shown that squats and deadlifts are unparalleled for inducing exercise stimulated testosterone, and growth hormone production.
Now, what is more likely to push the body to make adaptations? A bunch of smaller movements that are needed to work the same amount of musculature, or one or two BIG lifts that hit 70-80% of the bodies overall muscle mass in one fell swoop AND induce test and GH production?
Remember, we are primarily discussing drug free genetically typical trainees here that need to keep the overall volume in check. If you believe ANYONE can handle high volume/high frequency training, then well......that’s a topic for another day....
If you haven't personally seen the results that MANY, MANY trainees actualize when going from a no-squat, no-deadlift routine to one using these best of the best lifts--fine. But don't say it doesn't work that way. There is a long history of this method dating back to the 40's and staying with us to the current day.
There IS adaptation that occurs outside of the specific area worked. Since you seem so studied you must have read the studies that show runners bone density goes up IN THEIR ARMS when starting a running program. And their arms are stressed how when running? I have also seen the same studies and abstracts about the same non-worked areas increasing bone density and muscle density from training. But I really don't need them to back up this argument. 20 years experience in the gym, and 10 as a trainer has provided me all the anecdotal evidence I need.
And as far as me talking generalities, it was you who stated:
The body can adapt to almost anything given time.
BULLSHIT!!
Now, what is more likely to push the body to make adaptations? A bunch of smaller movements that are needed to work the same amount of musculature, or one or two BIG lifts that hit 70-80% of the bodies overall muscle mass in one fell swoop AND induce test and GH production?
Remember, we are primarily discussing drug free genetically typical trainees here that need to keep the overall volume in check. If you believe ANYONE can handle high volume/high frequency training, then well......that’s a topic for another day....
If you haven't personally seen the results that MANY, MANY trainees actualize when going from a no-squat, no-deadlift routine to one using these best of the best lifts--fine. But don't say it doesn't work that way. There is a long history of this method dating back to the 40's and staying with us to the current day.
There IS adaptation that occurs outside of the specific area worked. Since you seem so studied you must have read the studies that show runners bone density goes up IN THEIR ARMS when starting a running program. And their arms are stressed how when running? I have also seen the same studies and abstracts about the same non-worked areas increasing bone density and muscle density from training. But I really don't need them to back up this argument. 20 years experience in the gym, and 10 as a trainer has provided me all the anecdotal evidence I need.
And as far as me talking generalities, it was you who stated:
The body can adapt to almost anything given time.
BULLSHIT!!
Last edited:
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Bullshit? No, thats what you brought it to. We were discussing training and adapting to growth but you wanted to take it to adapting to poisons and 50 sets of high intensity exercise or some other bullshit.
As far as your hormonal reacitons, it wasn't squats, deadlifts, it was high intensity exercise of ANY KIND!!! This can be achieved with ANY compounds exercise, not just squats and deadlifts. Since you either lack the ability to do a simple medline search or you just don't feel like it, here are your studies since in this whole thread you have given us ZERO edvidence at all but the typical "I've been in this for 20 years". If I want to here that I can go to the gym and ask the local meatheads. Magic? Umm Riiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!!!
Acute hormonal responses to heavy resistance exercise in younger and older men.
Kraemer WJ, Hakkinen K, Newton RU, McCormick M, Nindl BC, Volek JS, Gotshalk LA, Fleck SJ, Campbell WW, Gordon SE, Farrell PA, Evans WJ.
Noll Physiological Research Center and Laboratory for Sports Medicine, Pennsylvania State University, University Park 16802, USA.
The purpose of this investigation was to examine the acute responses of several hormones [total and free testosterone (TT and FT, respectively), adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), cortisol (C), growth hormone (GH), and insulin (INS)] to a single bout of heavy resistance exercise (HRE). Eight younger [30-year (30y) group] and nine older [62-year (62y) group] men matched for general physical characteristics and activity levels performed four sets of ten repetitions maximum (RM) squats with 90 s rest between sets. Blood samples were obtained from each subject via an indwelling cannula with a saline lock pre-exercise, immediately post-exercise (IP), and 5, 15 and 30 min post-exercise. Levels of TT, FT, ACTH, C and lactate significantly increased after HRE for both groups. Pre-HRE pairwise differences between groups were noted only for FT, while post-HRE pairwise differences were found for TT, FT, GH, glucose and lactate. Area under the curve analysis showed that the 30y group had a significantly higher magnitude of increase over the entire recovery period (IP, 5, 15, and 30 min post-exercise) for TT, FT, ACTH and GH. Few changes occurred in the INS response with the only change being that the 62y group demonstrated a decrease IP. Lactate remained elevated at 30 min post-HRE. This investigation demonstrates that age-related differences occur in the endocrine response to HRE, and the most striking changes appear evident in the FT response to HRE in physically active young and older men.
Hormonal responses to high- and moderate-intensity strength exercise.
Raastad T, Bjoro T, Hallen J.
The Norwegian University of Sport and Physical Education, Oslo. [email protected]
The hormonal responses of nine male, strength athletes to strength exercise were examined. The athletes performed one moderate- and one high-intensity strength exercise workout. In the high-intensity workout, the load was 100% of each subject's three-repetition maximum (3-RM) for squats and front squats, and 100% of each subject's six-repetition maximum (6-RM) for leg extensions. In the moderate-intensity workout, the load was 70% of the high-intensity protocol. Rest periods between sets were 4-6 min for both workouts. Blood samples were taken before, 30 min into, and every 15 min for the 1st h after exercise, and then 3, 7, 11, 22 and 33 h after exercise, thus allowing examination of both the acute and prolonged hormonal responses. Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), cortisol, adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH), growth hormone (GH), insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), insulin, sex hormone binding globulin, creatine kinase, total protein, glucose and lactate. The acute responses of testosterone and cortisol were greater during the high-intensity protocol as compared to the moderate-intensity protocol. The cortisol response was associated with an increase in ACTH concentration. LH and FSH showed no response to either protocol. Acute GH responses were not different between protocols. There were great inter-individual differences in acute GH responses to both protocols. There were no significant differences between protocols with regard to prolonged responses for any hormone. In both trials, IGF-1 concentrations were significantly lower at 0800 hours the morning after exercise as compared to concentrations found at 0800 hours the morning before exercise. The mechanisms responsible for reducing IGF-1 concentration in these trials are unclear, and it is not known if this reduction observed 22 hours after exercise is of physiological significance.
Hormonal responses of multiset versus single-set heavy-resistance exercise protocols.
Gotshalk LA, Loebel CC, Nindl BC, Putukian M, Sebastianelli WJ, Newton RU, Hakkinen K, Kraemer WJ.
Center for Sports Medicine, Pennsylvania State University, University Park 16802, USA.
The purpose of this study was to compare serum growth hormone (GH), testosterone (T), cortisol (C), and whole blood lactate (L) responses to single set (1S) versus multiple set (3S) heavy-resistance exercise protocols. Eight recreationally weight-trained men completed two identical resistance exercise workouts (1S vs. 3S). Blood was obtained preexercise (PRE), immediately postexercise (OP), and 5 min (5P), 15 min (15P), 30 min (30P) and 60 min (60P) postexercise and was analyzed for GH, T, C, and L levels. For 1S and 3S, GH, L, and T significantly increased from PRE to OP and remained significantly elevated to 60P, except for 1S. For GH, T, and L, 3S showed significantly greater increases compared to 1S. For C, 3S and 1S were increased significantly from resting at OP, 5P, and 15P; 3S increased compared to 1S at 5P, 15P and 30P. Higher volumes of total work produce significantly greater increases in circulating anabolic hormones during the recovery phase following exercise.
Once agian IA, Its high intensity resistant traning of any kind, not just squats and deadlifts!!!!
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Admit it? Jesus Christ its basic **** you learn in any Physiology 101 class. Of course the body adapts, that is how you gain strenght and grow!!! Compared to someone who doens't exercise to someone who does OF COURSE the person who exercises will have an increased rate of protein synthesis. How basic can you get?!!?!?
Neuromuscular and hormonal adaptations during strength and power training. A review.
Hakkinen K.
Increases in muscular strength among initially untrained subjects are relatively easily attained taking place during the earlier weeks of strength training mainly due to neural adaptations with a gradually increasing contribution of hypertrophic factors as the training proceeds. Muscular strength development in strength athletes is much more limited and special attention should be given to high training loading intensity and to individual training programming. The magnitudes and the time courses of the neuromuscular adaptations in strength athletes may therefore differ from those among initially untrained subjects but the actual mechanisms of strength increase may be basically the same. The initial status of the athletes makes the process more complicated to follow and more difficult to substantiate. In strength athletes with a long training background and with a high training volume, the role of endogenous hormone balance may have increasing importance for strength development. During the most stressful training weeks of prolonged strength training the level of biologically active unbound testosterone as well as the balance between the androgenic-anabolic activity and the catabolizing effect of glucocorticoids may be of great importance for the trainability of muscular strength. These observations together with the findings about the specific effects of heavy resistance strength and power training on the neuromuscular performance may also have some implications for the more accurate determination of the trainability status of an individual athlete at a given time in order to optimize the training process.
Unparalleled? Its high intensity resistant traning of ANY KIND!!!
You could make the same arguemtn for HIIT training because that shows the same hormonal changes as resistant training.
So now we have magic squats and dealifts and a liquid 75g whey shake is better for digestion than whole foods....
Unbelievable...
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Yes I have seen it in competitive hockey (minor and collegiate leves) in which the majority of the exercises revolved around squats and deadlifts. Their upper bodies didn't magically grow.
And this is in a much more controlled setting than any gym where the majority of diet and exercise is monitored.
Kristopher
Board Supporter
i love deadlifts and squats.. my legs didnt grow till i did them. Of course diet and dedication helped as well 
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
I love that quote....lol
iron addict
Banned
Great, you just posted studies where SQUATS induced the hormonal output. They damn sure weren't measuring output in response to concentration curls.
You need a study for validation, people that have been there and done it don't. Put your next 10 drug-free training clients of a routine excluding squats and deads and see how well they fare.
I run a workload of 50-75 (currently 77) personal training clients and have been at this a while now, and I know from experience that those who don't use drugs, and don't or won't do the big lifts have a way harder time accruing muscle mass. Strossen wrote Super Squats, McRobert "Brawn", McCallum A zillion articles, and untold numbers of articles based on real world experience have been written since the 50's and are still get plenty of press in todays "modern" world, and it is all drivel because Bobo says so.
RIGHT! No abstract no validity-RIGHT AGAIN!
Iron Addict
You need a study for validation, people that have been there and done it don't. Put your next 10 drug-free training clients of a routine excluding squats and deads and see how well they fare.
I run a workload of 50-75 (currently 77) personal training clients and have been at this a while now, and I know from experience that those who don't use drugs, and don't or won't do the big lifts have a way harder time accruing muscle mass. Strossen wrote Super Squats, McRobert "Brawn", McCallum A zillion articles, and untold numbers of articles based on real world experience have been written since the 50's and are still get plenty of press in todays "modern" world, and it is all drivel because Bobo says so.
RIGHT! No abstract no validity-RIGHT AGAIN!
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
I don't tihnk anytone cares how many clients you have currently running. That is the 3rd time you've posted that in the last 2 dyas so are we supposed to be impressed?
And yes I currently have clients on no deadlifting and no squat routine because of previous injuries and they are doing great.
And if you didn't read the whole study there IA, the one with just squats showed that the hormonal changes was more age dependent than anything.
"This investigation demonstrates that age-related differences occur in the endocrine response to HRE, and the most striking changes appear evident in the FT response to HRE in physically active young and older "
Then I posted ones in which squats and leg extensions were used and it produced....
"There were no significant differences between protocols with regard to prolonged responses for any hormone."
I suggest you read all of the studies.
BTW- If this is your theroy about why squats will make your upper body grow, its laughable. I can get the same increases in testosterone with flax oil and healthy EFA's. If thats your theory then everyone taking 400+mg of test/week would be exploding in upper body gains.
Squats increase your upper body because they raise testosterone levels like every other heavy resistant traiing exercise.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight..............
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
With all those zillion articles and zillion books and zillion testimonials you would think they would do a study on it. Oh yeah, they did and the results were:
"There were no significant differences between protocols with regard to prolonged responses for any hormone."
But I think we should believe Joe Meathead at your local gym...
iron addict
Banned
yeah 400+ mgs a week test does nothing for upper body growth--lol.
Again, if it's not your experience fine, but don't say it doesn't occur.
And don't just pick on me:nono: You really out to call or email Randall Strossen and Stuart McRobert and tell them they are full of ****. I have talked to Randy and Stuart both on a few occasions, and I am sure they'd be happy to field a call from you bashing their experiences with squatting and the overall effect they have on growth. Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed will get you they're numbers-lol
No study no validity--LMFAO
Iron Addict
Again, if it's not your experience fine, but don't say it doesn't occur.
And don't just pick on me:nono: You really out to call or email Randall Strossen and Stuart McRobert and tell them they are full of ****. I have talked to Randy and Stuart both on a few occasions, and I am sure they'd be happy to field a call from you bashing their experiences with squatting and the overall effect they have on growth. Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed will get you they're numbers-lol
No study no validity--LMFAO
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
morfiend said:
Thats because its total bullshit.
RaulJimenez
Member
Bobo, Im gonna give my opinions again hehe. They are not magic exercises, they are compound exercises that target the majority of our Muscle Mass (Deadlift and Squat) thus triggering an hormone response "Test" when the demand is high ie . Hard Squats or Deadlifts. That doesn't mean other exercises will increase test levels, of course anything that creates a big demand on the body will trigger them. I think with appropriate diet, those 2 exercises will add grow in the whole body.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
LMAO....You have my number, give it to them.
They can have a conference call with Dr. Hatfield, cofounder of ISSA.
If I take 400mg of test per week and only do squats, my arms won't get bigger (excpet for water retention). If you actually hypertrophy will occur, your nuts.
Do you always selecitvely filter out things you don't want to believe? LOL.....
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
RaulJimenez said:
Umm, Raul, HIIT triggers a test release and that is mainly circuit training.
If you actually tihnk the amount released is singificant within that 1 to 2 hours peroid, your severely wrong.
iron addict
Banned
Bobo said:
RaulJimenez
Member
hypertrophy will not occur on your arms, but I for sure know that squatting and deadlifting will set the stage for bigger arms once your bent rows and bench presses go up.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
morfiend said:hahaha you guys are too funny. I was going to bring out some points, in favor of compound exercsises.. altho not claiming they're magicalbut i figured i'd let you guys go at it for a little while longer.. this is awesome
Oh I'm sure IA will turn this into "Bobo hates compound exercises and thinks they are satan". Then you can chime in with all the benefits.
Come to tihnk of it, I think Flex ran some articles on the test boosting actions of compunds exercises. And we ALL love Flex because they are so accurate.... :rofl:
Its funny they leave out that HIIT shows the same increase to.
morfiend
Member
Bobo said:
Yeah, I mean.. heres some anecdotal evidence for ya IA... all my room mate does is squats/deadlifts. He must have 13 inch arms.. I do think that the isometric load on bi's will give you SOME growth...
he can pull 365 and squat about the same for reps.. this guy isn't huge.. his arms aren't close to being huge.. he has no pecs... I hope you're not serioiusly trying to say that DL/Squat will build up your whole body?
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
RaulJimenez
Member
Bobo said:
I think those exercise in a progressive mode meaning that your strength was let's say at 135lbs per 8 reps and with proper diet and nutrition you can now squat 350lbs per 8 reps, i think you are going to have big legs and you are also going to make your body more efficient in pushing weights on others compound exercises.
Again im just stating my opinion , I could be wrong. But at least I can say those exercises have improved my body in a way leg extensions or lying curls could not do
iron addict
Banned
Not at all morfiend, but when you add squats and deads to a solid routine that works upper body also the growth is usually much greater.
Iron Addict
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
morfiend said:
Yes, that is what he is saying. I'm saying its bullshit.
He is saying the test boost allows your amrs to increase pretin synthesis but fails to mention that HIIT training elicits the same test boost.
Like I said, selectively believing what he wants and filtering out the rest.....and when someon brings it up, its "Abstracts don't mean anything!!!!"
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
OMG.....
iron addict
Banned
Raul,
Your experience doesn't count because there wasn't a study conducted on you while the effects were occuring-lol
Iron Addict
Your experience doesn't count because there wasn't a study conducted on you while the effects were occuring-lol
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
RaulJimenez said:
Then you can believe it. You also believed High GI was good for you.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Yeah, those studies are in a fantasy world and mean nothing compared to the controlled settings and meticulous log keeping of Joe BLow down the street.....LMAO!!!!!!
Still think 75g of whey is actually good for your digestiuve system?!?!!?
Throw science out the window!! Its lying!!!
:icon_lol: :icon_lol:
iron addict
Banned
Have you ever read Brawn Bobo? It was written by a man who has probably had more articles published in MAJOR bodybuilding publications than you or me have post counts. He has witnessed the effect in THOUSANDS of trainees and I in, well countless, because frankly I lost count a long time ago. Go over to Invalid Link Removed and on a daily basis you will see people posting their similar experiences. But since you yourself haven't experienced it, it doesn't exist!
OMFG!
Iron Addict
OMFG!
Iron Addict
RaulJimenez
Member
Bobo said:
Yes bobo but this is different, this is about how my body responded to an specific workout not a diet in particular. I'm open for suggestions as I've and will always be for you to tell me bobo what would be a better exercise that would stimulate the kind of mass that deadlifts and squats can do, I do respect your theories and your scientific data but I want to hear what your take is on those two exercises.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Sorry IA, I actually try to how things happen then listen to people at hardgainer.com preach to me about what works. I mean if you want to base your career as a trainer on a couple books and opinions of those at hardgainer.com, be my guest. Guess what the majority of thos books are based on IA. RESEARCH! THATS STUDIES!!!!
DUH!!!
DUH!!!
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
RaulJimenez said:
I have already said, its not the exercise but the WAY its carried out.
My recommendations go a little further than "squats and deadlifts make you big because, well they do". If you want to discuss something, then PM me or email me and I will glad to discuss anything with you.
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
morfiend said:
:goodpost:
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
We do have a new Arcade!
:run:
:run:
iron addict
Banned
My carreer as a trainer is based on 20+ years of training and digesting everything I can both in written format and real world experience. Science as applied to bodybuilding has severe limitations and one day you will discover that.
How many studies have you read that stated item X was 7x stronger than test and "real world" results prove it to be ****. How many studies have your read that protocol X has been proven to much more effient at producing hypertrophy than protocol Y, and with a bit of searching you then find as many studies stating exactly the opposite. I have read study after study stating single set training is a worthless protocol, and then you have people like Mentzer, Dorian, or Dogcrapps system that proves itself on countless trainees to be effective. How many studies show volume training to be ineffective? TONS! Tell me volume doesn't work for plenty of people--DUH!
For each study stating one thing there is usually another contradicting it. That doesn't make them useless. I read lots of studies and abstracts, read at least 10 during the course of the day on at least 6 different boards today alone.
It's entertaining and can help one make important distictions. But if you think they are the last word on any subject you are sorely mistaken.
I base my training carrer on what works--I also know that MANY, MANY things work for different people and I damn sure don't condemn things at face value just because I I don't have experience with them.
Here are some words that may be appropriate I wrote recently after another intenet debate:
The Truth
I am going to devote today’s “tip of the day� to the “truth.�
Everybody is looking for the “truth� about what bodybuilding/powerlifting/weight training for fitness, is “really� about. If I only had a nickel for every post I have read about that describes what constitutes the absolute “ultimate reality� of effective weight training. Everyone is looking for the definitive program that lays everything out for them, step by step, at least within a reasonably definable framework of a “system� that is the system of all systems. Guaranteed to make you the god or goddess you yearn to be……………..
And the absolute truth is…….I hold the truth. Problem is so do MANY, MANY others. And the so very interesting thing about this “absolute truth� is we are all right!!!! And all wrong at the same time!!! Some of you might have guessed that I was going to get philosophical here, and I am. Because I truly believe that unless we all can share more than how to get bigger and stronger, we are only achieving a part of what can be accomplished in this arena of information exchange. We then are operating more like a raft and not the river. The raft may get you to the other side of the river, but the river is the power and energy that makes it all possible. Unless the articles and posts are helping one not only build their bodies but their minds and spirits as well, only a small percentage of the possible benefit has been achieved.
Let’s take a peek at the “truth.� Ask anyone of respected authority about what constitutes effective training for size and strength and you are sure to hear the “truth.� While there is nothing wrong with what most of the experts in the field have to say, the component that is usually lacking in their version of the truth is that it is their truth, and it will be a non-truth for many others as long as they are dogmatic in the application of their pet theory. Many of these truths are an absolute lie (or failure of progress) for a big percentage of the trainees seeking the “truth.�
Weight training, is somewhat like religion, art, and many other activities that throw in that totally unpredictable wildcard of human individuality into the equation. Ask 10 deer hunters what the best caliber for deer is. You may get 10 different answers. Ask 10 Harley riders, or street rodders what the “best� way to go fast and look cool doing it is and you may get WAY more than 10 answers. And they are all right!! Dogmatism and limited perspectives are some of the many human conditions that keep us as a species from growing and fulfilling our almost limitless possibilities. And I will tell you it is damn hard to find an activity as ruled by dogmatism and generalities “carved in stone�, as the various branches and systems of weight training.
We look at the world through our own eyes, and while it is plainly obvious that we all have eyes, it is apparently not so obvious that what we see is filtered through our own unique perspective that colors all that is experienced by our individual bodies, minds, and spirits. The way we interpret and react to any stimulus is the totality of our physical bodies, our minds, and the experiences that came before every second of “now� that have shaped how we perceive things to be. The “reality� of my perceptions, your perceptions, and the next guys, are the sum total of the mind, body, and spirit (for those, that believe they possess one (myself included) (can I do parenthesis in parenthesis) (yes, I guess I can—lol).
What you should avoid as much as possible is the belief that your belief is the only truth, and that the way that is most productive for you is the only path to the destination. If you have read much of my writings you know that I am an advocate of lower volume training. I would bet it “all� that if you picked someone at your average gym in anywhere USA, or the country of your choice. Then blindfolded them, spun them around like a contestant in a piñata bash, and told them to start walking blindly until they ran into someone, and kept doing the same thing in this blind and impartial fashion until they has 100 “picks�, they would find that the greatly larger percentage of this selectively unselected group would do much better on low, or lower volume and frequency training than what is popularly advocated by the glossy magazines that showcase the genetically elite.
These are the role models that have set the so-called standard as the best way to get huge. Be that as it may, my opinion in no way refutes the fact that some people of the group would thrive much better on high volume and frequency workouts. So……..we are back to the fact that for every “truth�, there is a “lie.� In this case the lie being all those that did better using the other guys truth. And I understand that my experience with this may be totally different than others, I can and do accept this.
Opening yourself to see that the other training and diet philosophies are valid can have more impact than you would imagine. The impact will be scaled by how you apply it. If only taken in the context of how it can be applied to your understanding of training and application to your routine and diet, it will be worthwhile. It will have significant benefits of helping you better understand what might be potentially productive options training and diet wise. Hell, if the only benefit was to stop some of the never ending “theory bashing� that goes on at many of the online forums the training world would be much improved.
But if you can use this little shift of thought to open yourself to the notion that in any human interaction there is bound to be differing viewpoints on any topic or issue of discussion you will reap the real benefits. It is absolutely amazing how much energy is wasted by peoples need to be right. People alienate themselves from those with differing views, conflict and struggle at all levels from two people in a hostile debate, to wars being fought because of peoples absolute need to be right at all costs, and inability to see that others viewpoints, no matter how “whacked� they seem to be, are still right for them. This doesn’t mean to adopt an attitude of “anything goes�, nor does it mean that you should refrain from trying to show people your point of view. It does mean that when you disagree, you agree to disagree and understand that even the most diametrically opposed viewpoint is valid for the person holding it, and you should not spend inordinate amounts of time and energy trying to beat your perspective into others.
I often find links to boards I have not been to yet and will sign-up as a board member, answer a few posts, or post an article or two, and the reaction at some boards is often downright hostile. Simply because my posts didn’t go along with the prevailing “experts� on the forum. And so it goes with life too.
Can’t we all just get along—lol, Rodney King
Iron Addict
How many studies have you read that stated item X was 7x stronger than test and "real world" results prove it to be ****. How many studies have your read that protocol X has been proven to much more effient at producing hypertrophy than protocol Y, and with a bit of searching you then find as many studies stating exactly the opposite. I have read study after study stating single set training is a worthless protocol, and then you have people like Mentzer, Dorian, or Dogcrapps system that proves itself on countless trainees to be effective. How many studies show volume training to be ineffective? TONS! Tell me volume doesn't work for plenty of people--DUH!
For each study stating one thing there is usually another contradicting it. That doesn't make them useless. I read lots of studies and abstracts, read at least 10 during the course of the day on at least 6 different boards today alone.
It's entertaining and can help one make important distictions. But if you think they are the last word on any subject you are sorely mistaken.
I base my training carrer on what works--I also know that MANY, MANY things work for different people and I damn sure don't condemn things at face value just because I I don't have experience with them.
Here are some words that may be appropriate I wrote recently after another intenet debate:
The Truth
I am going to devote today’s “tip of the day� to the “truth.�
Everybody is looking for the “truth� about what bodybuilding/powerlifting/weight training for fitness, is “really� about. If I only had a nickel for every post I have read about that describes what constitutes the absolute “ultimate reality� of effective weight training. Everyone is looking for the definitive program that lays everything out for them, step by step, at least within a reasonably definable framework of a “system� that is the system of all systems. Guaranteed to make you the god or goddess you yearn to be……………..
And the absolute truth is…….I hold the truth. Problem is so do MANY, MANY others. And the so very interesting thing about this “absolute truth� is we are all right!!!! And all wrong at the same time!!! Some of you might have guessed that I was going to get philosophical here, and I am. Because I truly believe that unless we all can share more than how to get bigger and stronger, we are only achieving a part of what can be accomplished in this arena of information exchange. We then are operating more like a raft and not the river. The raft may get you to the other side of the river, but the river is the power and energy that makes it all possible. Unless the articles and posts are helping one not only build their bodies but their minds and spirits as well, only a small percentage of the possible benefit has been achieved.
Let’s take a peek at the “truth.� Ask anyone of respected authority about what constitutes effective training for size and strength and you are sure to hear the “truth.� While there is nothing wrong with what most of the experts in the field have to say, the component that is usually lacking in their version of the truth is that it is their truth, and it will be a non-truth for many others as long as they are dogmatic in the application of their pet theory. Many of these truths are an absolute lie (or failure of progress) for a big percentage of the trainees seeking the “truth.�
Weight training, is somewhat like religion, art, and many other activities that throw in that totally unpredictable wildcard of human individuality into the equation. Ask 10 deer hunters what the best caliber for deer is. You may get 10 different answers. Ask 10 Harley riders, or street rodders what the “best� way to go fast and look cool doing it is and you may get WAY more than 10 answers. And they are all right!! Dogmatism and limited perspectives are some of the many human conditions that keep us as a species from growing and fulfilling our almost limitless possibilities. And I will tell you it is damn hard to find an activity as ruled by dogmatism and generalities “carved in stone�, as the various branches and systems of weight training.
We look at the world through our own eyes, and while it is plainly obvious that we all have eyes, it is apparently not so obvious that what we see is filtered through our own unique perspective that colors all that is experienced by our individual bodies, minds, and spirits. The way we interpret and react to any stimulus is the totality of our physical bodies, our minds, and the experiences that came before every second of “now� that have shaped how we perceive things to be. The “reality� of my perceptions, your perceptions, and the next guys, are the sum total of the mind, body, and spirit (for those, that believe they possess one (myself included) (can I do parenthesis in parenthesis) (yes, I guess I can—lol).
What you should avoid as much as possible is the belief that your belief is the only truth, and that the way that is most productive for you is the only path to the destination. If you have read much of my writings you know that I am an advocate of lower volume training. I would bet it “all� that if you picked someone at your average gym in anywhere USA, or the country of your choice. Then blindfolded them, spun them around like a contestant in a piñata bash, and told them to start walking blindly until they ran into someone, and kept doing the same thing in this blind and impartial fashion until they has 100 “picks�, they would find that the greatly larger percentage of this selectively unselected group would do much better on low, or lower volume and frequency training than what is popularly advocated by the glossy magazines that showcase the genetically elite.
These are the role models that have set the so-called standard as the best way to get huge. Be that as it may, my opinion in no way refutes the fact that some people of the group would thrive much better on high volume and frequency workouts. So……..we are back to the fact that for every “truth�, there is a “lie.� In this case the lie being all those that did better using the other guys truth. And I understand that my experience with this may be totally different than others, I can and do accept this.
Opening yourself to see that the other training and diet philosophies are valid can have more impact than you would imagine. The impact will be scaled by how you apply it. If only taken in the context of how it can be applied to your understanding of training and application to your routine and diet, it will be worthwhile. It will have significant benefits of helping you better understand what might be potentially productive options training and diet wise. Hell, if the only benefit was to stop some of the never ending “theory bashing� that goes on at many of the online forums the training world would be much improved.
But if you can use this little shift of thought to open yourself to the notion that in any human interaction there is bound to be differing viewpoints on any topic or issue of discussion you will reap the real benefits. It is absolutely amazing how much energy is wasted by peoples need to be right. People alienate themselves from those with differing views, conflict and struggle at all levels from two people in a hostile debate, to wars being fought because of peoples absolute need to be right at all costs, and inability to see that others viewpoints, no matter how “whacked� they seem to be, are still right for them. This doesn’t mean to adopt an attitude of “anything goes�, nor does it mean that you should refrain from trying to show people your point of view. It does mean that when you disagree, you agree to disagree and understand that even the most diametrically opposed viewpoint is valid for the person holding it, and you should not spend inordinate amounts of time and energy trying to beat your perspective into others.
I often find links to boards I have not been to yet and will sign-up as a board member, answer a few posts, or post an article or two, and the reaction at some boards is often downright hostile. Simply because my posts didn’t go along with the prevailing “experts� on the forum. And so it goes with life too.
Can’t we all just get along—lol, Rodney King
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
iron addict said:
Are you going to cut and past your whole site?
iron addict
Banned
If you'd like, there is really a lot of great content there you know.
Iron Addict
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Well you sponsor the forum, you can do whatever the hell you like!
:trout:
:trout:
iron addict
Banned
morfiend, me and Bobo are both luaghing our fucking asses off over your last statement.
Bobo, can I get a big syncronized OMG!
Iron Addict
Bobo, can I get a big syncronized OMG!
Iron Addict
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
morfiend said:
OMG!!!!
- Status