HELP PLEASE Workout partner is a puss & wont squat help me convince him 2

[iron addict]

One of my current trainees who does strongman events is squatting 530 for 20 reps, is that REALLY moderate weight for moderate reps?

So all it takes is high dose gear use for long term useage and you have a Mr Olympia Physique? I know you must be pretty young then and haven't met all that many lifters. I have met a LOT of Guys thatt did HIGH doses year round for 10-20 years and while they are quite damn huge, olympia caliber they are not.

If you don't think squats are great cool. have your trainees do lunges and leg extensions.

You obviously must beleive ALL whey is hydrolized (its NOT), and all shakes are taken by themselves with no other foods, thus slowing digestion, THEY'RE NOT.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

One of my current trainees who does strongman events is squatting 530 for 20 reps, is that REALLY moderate weight for moderate reps?

So all it takes is high dose gear use for long term useage and you have a Mr Olympia Physique? I know you must be pretty young then and haven't met all that many lifters. I have met a LOT of Guys thatt did HIGH doses year round for 10-20 years and while they are quite damn huge, olympia caliber they are not.

If you don't think squats are great cool. have your trainees do lunges and leg extensions.

You obviously must beleive ALL whey is hydrolized (its NOT), and all shakes are taken by themselves with no other foods, thus slowing digestion, THEY'RE NOT.

Iron Addict

1. For him, yes its moderdate since he can much more. Jesus how far do you want to take this? Is it heavy for most people yes, but so is 100lbs to most children. Jesus, talk about twisting words around.....unbelievable.....

2. Never said squats weren't "cool". I said they won't make your arms bigger and they don't have "magical" properties. I guess you missed that part or your trying to put words in my mouth ONCE again....

3. Do me a favor IA, drop the whey arguement because you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You keep thinking the majority of protein digestion is done in the stomach.

But if you want to stick your foot in your mouth agian on that subject, please go for it.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

So all it takes is high dose gear use for long term useage and you have a Mr Olympia Physique? I know you must be pretty young then and haven't met all that many lifters. I have met a LOT of Guys thatt did HIGH doses year round for 10-20 years and while they are quite damn huge, olympia caliber they are not.

But I'm sure if you cut them down, they could easily go on stage and compete at SOME level. If you can't, then something is MAJORLY wrong.

Its funny how you keep comparing people to Olympia caliber. They are the BEST in the world. You don't need to be the BEST in the world to compete.

 

[iron addict]

No, what is "unbelievable" is you stating that all it takes is solid training and diet and high dosage gear use on a long term basis to make a olympia caliber BB--LMFAO

Yup, the only reason you aren't as big as Colemen or Cutler is you haven't been at it long enough. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Iron Addict

 

[iron addict]

Go take a look at Woody Allen, or any EXTREME ECTO. See those teany-tiny shoulders, ZERO muscle mass, yeah the guys who's hips are WIDER than their shoulders. And tell me you could make them a competitive BB. Maybe at a high school level girls event.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No, what is "unbelievable" is you stating that all it takes is solid training and diet and high dosage gear use on a long term basis to make a olympia caliber BB--LMFAO

Yup, the only reason you aren't as big as Colemen or Cutler is you haven't been at it long enough. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Iron Addict

OMG....


When I thought you couldn't get more ridiculous....

You type that.

 

[iron addict]

Your the one that stated the big reason you werent as big as Cutler is you haven't been at it long enough. Now THAT is ridiculous.

Iron Addict

 

[JBlaze]

Go take a look at Woody Allen, or any EXTREME ECTO. See those teany-tiny shoulders, ZERO muscle mass, yeah the guys who's hips are WIDER than their shoulders. And tell me you could make them a competitive BB. Maybe at a high school level girls event.

Iron Addict

I dont see why it's so hard to do. You yourself have said countless times that joe average can reach a goal of 300/400/500 on bench/squat/deadlift and get a physque around 210lbs at 5'10" am i correct? With the right precontest diet and training, why couldn't joe average who yourself has said is around "5'10" at 210, or 5'9" at 205" shread up and compete at an entry level local competition?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I said 15+ years AND high amounts of gear. There goes that selective filtering again. In that time can I be 260 and ripped? Yes, I can. Will I look like Cutler? Who the hell knows? Thats 15 years from now. Could I compete them? Hell I could compete now. Are my genetics as good as Cutler? Hell no but I sure can COMPETE NOW! Can you?

The fact you keep brining up Olympia contestants and the fact that you actually asked me if I could be as big as Cutler is so damn comical, its ridiculous.


On top of that you actually tell people that a 75g Whey shake is better for digetion than whole foods. As someone that advises people on nutrition, thats just embarassing. Then you actually say certain exercises are "magical". That **** would make any undergrad in those programs laugh his ass off.


But I guess when people want to believe myths there will always be someone selling them.

 

[JBlaze]

Go take a look at Woody Allen, or any EXTREME ECTO. See those teany-tiny shoulders, ZERO muscle mass, yeah the guys who's hips are WIDER than their shoulders. And tell me you could make them a competitive BB. Maybe at a high school level girls event.

Iron Addict

That was me when i started, 128lbs at 5'10" w/ no abs (guessing around 13-14%) and 11 3/4" arms. I worked up to 16 3/4" and a 46" chest at around the same bf before ever doing a squat or deadlift in my life. Of course my lower body looked rediciously stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that theres other compound movements that tax the body to grow.

My highschool football coach was totally against squats because he thought it was bad for the knees, and we'd get cussed out if he ever found out, that doesn't change the fact that most every single one of us had bigger arms than other kids in our grade. So i dont feel squatting is always necessary to make arms grow as you've said.

 

[iron addict]

Only a complete idiot would beleive I was using the term "magical" in the commonly used sense.

Jon, I didn't say the "average" man in the this arguement, I said the EXTREME ECTOMORPH, WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT.

A big chunk of people, with proper training and dieting will be able to compete. But saying ANYONE can is absoluetely ludicrous.

Anyone that truly beleives ANYONE can be made into a competetive bodybuilder no matter the genetic limitations, is just talking out their ass out of complete inexperience with SOME genetically typical trainees.

And I really like your abilty to see the future NO ONE CAN SAY THEY CAN BE 260 AND LEAN EXCEPT IN RETROSPECT. Can you be 300 and lean? 280? 325? YOU CANNOT SAY THIS UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE IT! STATING OTHERWISE IS AGAIN TALKING FROM YOUR BROWN HOLE.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You've been talking out of your brown hole the whole thread.

As for complete idiot, thats someone who suggest 75g whey shakes are good for digestion.

And the term magical was used by YOU. Then you gave some BS about changes in metabolsim withouth even knowing its the Kreb cycle.

Once again, your lack of understanding of the most BASIC of concepts is staggering for someone that is supposed to be a trainer. When confronted with detail your arguements are always "abstroacts don't mean anything". In other words, you don't have a clue....

 

[iron addict]

Bobo,

I am truly done listening to this drivel. Put your trainees on no-squat, no-deadlift, programs and promise them all you will make them competitors. That will all add up to more trainees for e because I am quite certian it won't take long before they are disallusioned.

And in case you are still scratching your head, I didn't mean they were magical in the usual use of the term, but I have only stated that 3 times now and it seems it takes quite a bit for anything to sink in with you.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Bobo,

I am truly done listening to this drivel. Put your trainees on no-squat, no-deadlift, programs and promise them all you will make them competitors. That will all add up to more trainees for e because I am quite certian it won't take long before they are disallusioned.

And if YOU'RE still scratching you head, I never said squats or deadlifts we're worhtless. I said they won't make your arms bigger. Seem you have a hard time understanding that point along with many other BASIC concepts of weight training and nutriton. Truly remarkable...

As for more clients for you, thats fine. I don't take that many because I would rather worry about quality than quantity.

 

[JBlaze]

Jon, I didn't say the "average" man in the this arguement, I said the EXTREME ECTOMORPH, WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT.

A big chunk of people, with proper training and dieting will be able to compete. But saying ANYONE can is absoluetely ludicrous.

Anyone that truly beleives ANYONE can be made into a competetive bodybuilder no matter the genetic limitations, is just talking out their ass out of complete inexperience with SOME genetically typical trainees.

Are you saying that an extreme ectomorph w/ the proper diet and routine for 6+ years who uses a shitload pharms still will not be fit for a local compeition?

It is possible for anyone to compete, take a look at layne norton, who has built an impressive physique for being completely natural and i assure you has never been booed off a stage.

Are you trying to tell me, an extreme ecto w/ a couple cycles, and other heavy pharms cannot look like this? Maybe a typical guy may not be able to complete NATURALLY, but w/ a couple heavy cycles, and some GH/slin usage, it's pretty safe to say that anyone can compete at at least a local level.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne33_12_big.jpg
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne33_9_big.jpg

 

[iron addict]

Jon, I'm talking about NATURAL trainees that are EXTREME ecto's. I know some out there may not beleive this, but there are a BUNCH of people out there that just don't, and will not do gear or PH's. Many of these guys just aren't ever going to stand on the stage. They can want to all they want.

Iron Addict

 

[JBlaze]

Jon, I'm talking about NATURAL trainees that are EXTREME ecto's. I know some out there may not beleive this, but there are a BUNCH of people out there that just don't, and will not do gear or PH's. Many of these guys just aren't ever going to stand on the stage. They can want to all they want.

Iron Addict

Ia, layne is natural and started off at 5'10 and 130lbs. He is an extreme ectomorph who obviously doesn't have great mr. olympia genetics either. He has simply found what has worked for him and through hard work is now competing. I believe it is just a matter of finding what works for a certain individual as layne has done through trial and error. Too many people do the same thing over and over expecting different results (as you have said many times before), so they never get to local competition level. Thats why many trainees rely on trainers like Bobo and yourself, to help them find what works to build impressive phyques.

Now i am not saying that every single person can be mr olympia or anywhere near that. But local compeition physiques are hardly that impressive, and can be reached w/ the right trainer.

 

[iron addict]

Great, you just provided a sample and success story of one. take 100 EXTREME ecto's and see if you can EVER get 75 of them on stage. Some WILL make it, some will NOT, saying they all can is just plain stupid and doesn't work that way in real life despite all the optimism in the world.

Iron Addict

 

[JBlaze]

Great, you just provided a sample and success story of one. take 100 EXTREME ecto's and see if you can EVER get 75 of them on stage. Some WILL make it, some will NOT, saying they all can is just plain stupid and doesn't work that way in real life despite all the optimism in the world.

Iron Addict

here is picture from a local competiton w/ another forum brother (blacksmith).

I fail to believe that an extreme ecto cannot look like this after several years of the proper training and diet. Mind you, layne places well in all his competitons, and in this picture these are the top two winners, meaning everyone else who was on stage is LESS impressive than these guys.

When you tell someone you cannot make them ALMOST as good as this and only to the point where they will get laughed off the stage, IMO that doesn't look too good for your business.

 

[iron addict]

My business is based on the truth and i will not blow smoke up anyones ass and tell them that they will be able to compete if they just work hard enough. That is only learned in retrospect AFTER they have attempted it. Not everyone has the attributes to compete and that is just a simple fact of life. many will make it some will not. I can't beleive you cannot sift through your mental inventory of people you have seen in your life, and recall some of the frail, and I mean thinner than anerexic girl frail guys that exist. And then you really beleive these guys will ever stand on the stage with a chanch of winning. Competitor does imply that there is some chance of winning. Not just entering because you want to say you entered a contest. Anyone can enter a low level show, **** you don't even need to train at all to do that. But being competitive is a different matter.

Iron Addict

 

[morfiend]

in about 5 years I went from 140 lbs, no muscle definition to ~200 lbs with lots of it. all natural.

I agree with Bobo in the sense that anyone can compete, being competitive enough to not get looks like "what the **** is that guy doing on stage??" I don't think anyone can become "elite".. MAYBE with enough money and massive amounts of drugs.. but definately not naturally.

anywyas, the whole "competing" statement was fairly ambiguous.. and we can only really speculate. obviously someone with muscular dystrophy wont ever be able to compete competitely.

but when I see people who are ridiculously skinny, or call themselves ectomorphs, claim their metabolism is too high.. they really aren't putting enough effort in or doing enough of the right thing.

I think people may be genetically gifted to gain muscle very easily and stay lean in the process, others it may take much harder work.

I had to eat everything in sight to gain weight. I gained a bit of fat as well.., but lots and lots of muscle.

this thread is full of anecdotes like this.

 

[Debaser]

In 2 years of training I've gone from 160-165 @ 15-16% BF to 210 @ 10% bodyfat. I'm between 6' and 6'1".

I'm not a genetic marvel, but I don't think that's half bad (I did this naturally too).

Not that everyone can get the results I can, but I think the reason for my quick results is that I've always done routines that are high in frequency (I did DC training for quite awhile, a couple HST cycles, some Bill Starr, and some of my own methods).

I'm not sure EVERYONE could be competitive, but there are a lot of guys that certainly COULD be that just like to make a lot of excuses.

 

[iron addict]

Yes, genetics don't matter. Here is a post by Doggcrap about genetics:

skullfucked did you help anyone precontest in the San Diego championships at Pacific beach middle school 2 weeks ago? Seeing Jay Cutler guest pose reiterated to myself the following points. Heres a guy hard as a rock at 287lbs at 5'8 with striations. The arena was packed with bodybuilders and alot of large ones at that. There is no way in my mind I will believe that Jay Cutler although dwarfing any other bodybuilder in that arena, uses more than anyone else in that arena because of that fact. I would estimate that 25-50 or so bodybuilders in that arena were using as much if not much more so than cutler yet still arent even remotely close to his level. Case in point (im using Jay because he grew up 20 minutes from me in Massachusetts) Paul Demayo and Mike Mattarrazzo also grew up down the road from me--these two ran around with groups of buddies all the time (especially Demayo)--alot of these guys were using the exact same drugs, doing the same exact things. Not one of their freinds gained close to the same muscle or even got close to winning anything major. (some even looked like they didnt even lift--just bloated and about 210lbs). It just reiterated to me how much genetics plays a major all consuming part in all of this. You cant take 5 grams of test and 8 anadrol a day and make woody allen into dorian yates. I really believe some of these pro's nowadays that are so above and beyond the normal level (dillett, coleman, now cutler) might even have a mutation of the myostatin gene already. I did read a study (muscular development?) where Flex Wheelers myostatin levels were skewered--much different from a normal person (ill have to look it up)....I feel sorry for any person who wants to be a pro bodybuilder nowadays. It is at a level now that if people arent asking you if your a bodybuilder before you even start lifting your not going to have the genetics to make it.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yes, genetics don't matter. Here is a post by Doggcrap about genetics:

skullfucked did you help anyone precontest in the San Diego championships at Pacific beach middle school 2 weeks ago? Seeing Jay Cutler guest pose reiterated to myself the following points. Heres a guy hard as a rock at 287lbs at 5'8 with striations. The arena was packed with bodybuilders and alot of large ones at that. There is no way in my mind I will believe that Jay Cutler although dwarfing any other bodybuilder in that arena, uses more than anyone else in that arena because of that fact. I would estimate that 25-50 or so bodybuilders in that arena were using as much if not much more so than cutler yet still arent even remotely close to his level. Case in point (im using Jay because he grew up 20 minutes from me in Massachusetts) Paul Demayo and Mike Mattarrazzo also grew up down the road from me--these two ran around with groups of buddies all the time (especially Demayo)--alot of these guys were using the exact same drugs, doing the same exact things. Not one of their freinds gained close to the same muscle or even got close to winning anything major. (some even looked like they didnt even lift--just bloated and about 210lbs). It just reiterated to me how much genetics plays a major all consuming part in all of this. You cant take 5 grams of test and 8 anadrol a day and make woody allen into dorian yates. I really believe some of these pro's nowadays that are so above and beyond the normal level (dillett, coleman, now cutler) might even have a mutation of the myostatin gene already. I did read a study (muscular development?) where Flex Wheelers myostatin levels were skewered--much different from a normal person (ill have to look it up)....I feel sorry for any person who wants to be a pro bodybuilder nowadays. It is at a level now that if people arent asking you if your a bodybuilder before you even start lifting your not going to have the genetics to make it.

So when did Doggcrapp become a geneticist? Last time we had a debate he was saying you could cruise with 400mg of test per week and still recover using Clomid and NOlvadex while you were on.


Do you guys just sit around and make this **** up?

 

[iron addict]

One hardly needs to be a geneticist to look at real world results of what occurs in the gyms. Oh yeah, I forgot, no study, no validity. If you really think you have more experience than Dogg....well....damn.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

One hardly needs to be a geneticist to look at real world results of what occurs in the gyms. Oh yeah, I forgot, no study, no validity. If you really think you have more experience than Dogg....well....damn.

Iron Addict

Oh yeah I forgot, they teach a lot about genetics in your local gym.

And who said I had more experience than DC? You really like putting words into peoples mouths don't you IA. Where did I say that? Show me....

I said his recommendation about using Clomid and Nolvadex during a cycle to recover shows his complete lack of understanding about mechanisms of action of the various feedback loops of the HTPA. So sorry if I don't beleive his opinion on genetics....

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Its like you saying taking 75g of Whey is better for digestion than whole foods. Its a complete joke....

 

[iron addict]

What do his cruise protocols have to do with what he has witnessed on countless occasions with his own eyes about the role genetics play in bodybuilding.

Most of the time a point is made that contrdicts your view you try swithcing to another topic.

Here is a man that has spent a good part of his life around BB's at all levels, with I would bet way more experience than anyone on this board. And when a post is made contridicting your views, you ask when he became a geneticist, and start blathering about his cruise protocols.

It is what he, I, and MOST all people have seen that have actual had real world experience with a large cross-segment of BB's have witnessed. And it's invalid because we are not geneticists--LMFAO.

And no, me and Dogg don't sit around and "make all this **** up", It's what we have seen. Some of us didn't learn it all from a bunch of abstracts.

Iron Addict
Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Most of the time a point is made that contrdicts your view you try swithcing to another topic.



Iron Addict
Iron Addict

Are you kidding me?!?!?


You put so many words in peoples mouths its so damn funny.

I say genetics are not as important and used as an excuse by many people.


IA's response - "Bobo says genetics don't matter at all"


I say squats and deadlifts won't make your arms bigger:

IA's repsonse - "Bobo says squats and deadlifts are worthless"


THis is what you do all the time! You've done it for 5 pages! When asked for proof, you say "abstracts don't mean anything" but when someone confronts you on your use of "magical" you say its a metabolic shift in protein synthesis. Where is the proof?!?!?! You criticize science and abstracts yet give us a SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION!!! THen your reason is "I've been in this for 20 years!". I didn't know after 20 years you could tell that an increase in protein synthesis was occuring and squats changed your metabolism by just LOOKING at someone in the gym. WOW!!


You consistenty dodge any issue you can't prove, yet when someone posts a shred of evidence you give us "abstracts mean nothing" bullshit.


You constantly butcher basic facts that 18 year old kids learn their freshman year in Nutrition 101 yet sit there and trry to lecture all us about genetics. Its a farce....


I think Big Cat and Nandi summed up these tpyes of converstiaons quite nicely:


"I think a lot of this could be resolved if people who have no insight in physiology stopped commenting on these things as if they knew it all ..."

"I agree completely. I think this is what irritates me as well about some of the advice given on anabolic boards. This guy is dispensing this information as if it were sound, substantiated medical advice rather than simply his pet theory about the use of clomid during a cycle. And what's even more ludicrous, he is defending his "theory" to the death without a shred of evidence to support it! Unfortunately there are a lot of readers who buy into this kind of stuff without realizing that it's only speculation."


Any that goes for more than just Clomid. Like I said before, if people are willing to believe the myths, there will always be someone trying to sell them.

 

[iron addict]

And you are right back to Doggs clomid advice instead of commenting on Doggs experience with the role genetics play in BB.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Umm, I never commented on DC's experience. I commentd on his theories. Theories without any shred of evidence is...


myth.


So sorry if I don't beleive him when he talks about genetics.

 

[iron addict]

So because his methods don't have studies done to prove their validity, they don't work?

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Do you believe you can run 400mg of test per week and still recover while using Clomid and Nolvadex while your still on? DO you actually tihnk the testes will respond to LH pulses?

 

[iron addict]

No, I don't. That in no way makes his observations about the role of genetics invalid, or the rest of his training system invalid. I have seen the results people have acheived using him as a trainer and using his system on their own.

But I am sure all those success stories are "myths" because a controlled study wasn't conducted on the trainees and an abstract published.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No, I don't. That in no way makes his observations about the role of genetics invalid, or the rest of his training system invalid. I have seen the results people have acheived using him as a trainer and using his system on their own.

But I am sure all those success stories are "myths" because a controlled study wasn't conducted on the trainees and an abstract published.

Iron Addict

Nobody said his "training" system was invalid. Nobody said people don't receive results from him but in your classic IA style you put words into my mouth again. I guess it because you have your foot in yours.

I said his theory on Clomid was ridiculous so thererore I don't beleive his opinion on genetics which is much more complicated than endocrinology. If one doesn't understand the feedback loop of the HTPA I find it hard to believe he knows much about the role of genetics.

 

[Doggcrapp]

For the one millionth time Bobo--(TALK ABOUT PUTTING WORDS IN PEOPLES MOUTH) I was talking about superheavyweights and pros who were on year round--if you think that these guys are getting off when they are showing up at the Arnold, USA, Night of Champions, Nationals, Olympia, and the GNC jacked to the hilt ---all in spread out months thruout the year ---are getting off, you are blind to the truth! Whats a better option for people? 4-8 weeks on and 2-3 weeks cruising with ancilliaries and hcg. Do the pros and superheavys do that and get off during cruising--NO THEY DO NOT!!!!! Some might but most dont. So the viable choice is do the lowest amount of exog test that their ego will allow during "off" periods. Your buddy posted a study showing people with normal endo test levels who took clomid and the result was their endo test levels were even greater with clomid use. Hmm even higher with normal test levels showing. Well if your on low dose HRT (which is basically cruising in loose terms in my context of things) wouldnt it make sense that --that could still hold true to some degree? With the 300-900 normal range of test levels--and clomid still working, your going to tell me that with a low dose HRT (which yes will be higher spikes and amounts) clomid will do nothing???!!! Prove it to me. I cant prove or disprove it by Medline I have to go by theory on that. You cant prove or disprove either because there are no studies using those protocols. ILL SAY THIS IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE YOU SEEM TO GET LOST IN WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY--Whats the best way to get your HPTA back on par? Go on ancilliaries and then get the hell off!!!! How in that high and mighty egotistical view of supernatural intelligence you hold of yourself, can you not get my drift here where Im talking about personal choices and top competitors. Even the most ignoramus of individuals get what Im talking about yet somehow you draw a blanket statement that IM talking about everyone from the newbie to Ron Coleman. Your intelligent so dont play dumb here and generalize what Im saying. Pros arent getting off much. Amateurs do and dont. Did you ever look up what that original cruising post was about? It was my answer to people who were commenting that they were on year round, high doses and i suggested a more viable way. I have some theories and they are just my theories, I cant prove them. There are no studies concerning HPTA feedback loop, clom, nolv, arim and the use of low dose test.....but i do know this. Eighty percent of my trainees are natural but Ive trained alot of guys now who have been enhanced (in Mexico and Europe) and I have had the greatest amount of feedback from them including labwork, etc.....Ill stick with my notions on this.....Id appreciate if you would refrain from putting your own spin on my theories when you know damn well the context it was taken out of (pros, superheavies who bombed themselves year round)

 

[iron addict]

What is so complicated about being around BB's of all levels for most of your life. And witnessing with your own eyes people training/dieting/using gear at the same levels and watching some of them excel and others do poorly. The only people I hear play down the role of genetics are:

Young guys that have no experience in the sport, but want to beleive anyone can be great.

Old/older guys that have little direct experience outside theirselves and a small group of BB's that provides a very small cross-section of genetic sampling.

Dogg has logged more hours in the gyms with the big-boys (and small) than you have spent reading your abstracts and if you really think one needs to have a degree in genetic engineering to draw conclusions about the role genetics play in BB and sports in general...then...damn again.

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

For the one millionth time Bobo--(TALK ABOUT PUTTING WORDS IN PEOPLES MOUTH) I was talking about superheavyweights and pros who were on year round--if you think that these guys are getting off when they are showing up at the Arnold, USA, Night of Champions, Nationals, Olympia, and the GNC jacked to the hilt ---all in spread out months thruout the year ---are getting off, you are blind to the truth! Whats a better option for people? 4-8 weeks on and 2-3 weeks cruising with ancilliaries and hcg. Do the pros and superheavys do that and get off during cruising--NO THEY DO NOT!!!!! Some might but most dont. So the viable choice is do the lowest amount of exog test that their ego will allow during "off" periods. Your buddy posted a study showing people with normal endo test levels who took clomid and the result was their endo test levels were even greater with clomid use. Hmm even higher with normal test levels showing. Well if your on low dose HRT (which is basically cruising in loose terms in my context of things) wouldnt it make sense that --that could still hold true to some degree? With the 300-900 normal range of test levels--and clomid still working, your going to tell me that with a low dose HRT (which yes will be higher spikes and amounts) clomid will do nothing???!!! Prove it to me. I cant prove or disprove it by Medline I have to go by theory on that. You cant prove or disprove either because there are no studies using those protocols. ILL SAY THIS IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE YOU SEEM TO GET LOST IN WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY--Whats the best way to get your HPTA back on par? Go on ancilliaries and then get the hell off!!!! How in that high and mighty egotistical view of supernatural intelligence you hold of yourself, can you not get my drift here where Im talking about personal choices and top competitors. Even the most ignoramus of individuals get what Im talking about yet somehow you draw a blanket statement that IM talking about everyone from the newbie to Ron Coleman. Your intelligent so dont play dumb here and generalize what Im saying. Pros arent getting off much. Amateurs do and dont. Did you ever look up what that original cruising post was about? It was my answer to people who were commenting that they were on year round, high doses and i suggested a more viable way. I have some theories and they are just my theories, I cant prove them. There are no studies concerning HPTA feedback loop and the use of low dose test.....but i do know this. Eighty percent of my trainees are natural but Ive trained alot of guys now who have been enhanced (in Mexico and Europe) and I have had the greatest amount of feedback from them including labwork, etc.....Ill stick with my notions on this.....Id appreciate if you would refrain from putting your own spin on my theories when you know damn well the context it was taken out of (pros, superheavies who bombed themselves year round)

So many words and so little point.


"There are no studies concerning HPTA feedback loop and the use of low dose test....."

Wrong. I posted them in the other thread but I guess you didn't read those either.


Or you follow IA's theroy of "abstract mean nothing"


And there is your original post the first time we did this. And if was for NORMAL PEOPLE!

DC:
"Sorry bout that, I wrote that post quickly and I should of been a little more responsible with saying-those dosages are what I am seeing superheavies who have been around for a while doing. I am of the opinion that people should use the lowest dosages possible that will keep them gaining. If a newbie bodybuilder starts off with 2 grams of T every week and a high dose of fina etc etc and eventually taps out on that where is he going to go? 4000 a week? I believe one should make their way up 750, to 1000 to 1200 to 1500 and so on slowly thru cycles.I am an advocate of the 4 week on 2 week cruising (then back on) method not because of receptor site saturation but due to 3 very important (to me) factors...1)I lift extremely heavy and I push the limits for 4 weeks and I just need 2 weeks to kind of regroup myself and then go balls to the wall again with poundages for the next 4 weeks
2)Same with food intake-I religiously get in 500 to 600 grams of protein and I have to give myself a little break for those 2 weeks(i only go down to 400grams or so) or I'll go crazy
3) I think its of utmost importance to keep yourself regulated hpta wise. If your endogenous test levels diminish due to constant months of high androgens when you do finally come off those size gains fly out the door...if you can keep your endo test somewhat normal you wont get the huge problems that keep most bodybuilders bouncing up and down in bodyweight like yo yo's..namely getting colds and flu's/injuries/depression/lack of aggresion and appetite (which usually means test to estrogen ratio out of whack)...During the cruising period the 400mg of test will keep you from losing any muscle at all and the clomid and arimidex will get you as close (via 2 different routes) to homeostasis as possible.
As far as GH, I have never used it and I wish I could. But the cost is just too much for me at this time. From what I've witnessed short cycles will not do anything so unless I can run it for at least 6 months I am not going to bother. Opinions down here vary but most follow Milos's lead and do 5 days on 2 days off at 6IU's a day or 6 days on 4 off. "



Doesn't sounds like its for super heavyweights to me.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

and I have had the greatest amount of feedback from them including labwork, etc.....Ill stick with my notions on this.....Id appreciate if you would refrain from putting your own spin on my theories when you know damn well the context it was taken out of (pros, superheavies who bombed themselves year round)

Post your labwork.


ANd IA brought you into this with your view on genetics like it was law.


Hardly.

 

[Doggcrapp]

UMMM AND YOU DID SEE THIS PREPHRASE TO ALL OF THAT CORRECT?

DC:
"Sorry bout that, I wrote that post quickly and I should of been a little more responsible with saying-those dosages are what I am seeing superheavies who have been around for a while doing

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Young guys that have no experience in the sport, but want to beleive anyone can be great.

Old/older guys that have little direct experience outside theirselves and a small group of BB's that provides a very small cross-section of genetic sampling.

My age is posted and so are my pics. I'm not hiding from anything.

And the majority of BB'ers out there listen to Flex for advice so they hardly a reliable source of information. The nutrition and supplement industries wouldn't be where they are today if they didn't sell "myth".

 

[Dwight Schrute]

UMMM AND YOU DID SEE THIS PREPHRASE TO ALL OF THAT CORRECT?

DC:
"Sorry bout that, I wrote that post quickly and I should of been a little more responsible with saying-those dosages are what I am seeing superheavies who have been around for a while doing

UMMMM.....yeah then you went on to discuss newbies.


Either way if they are superheavyweights or newbs or in the middle, the theory is complete fiction.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

SHould I post abstracts on the use of low testosterone or are you going to pull the "abstracts mean nothing" bullshit again.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Instead how about you read this agian:


http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11514&highlight=doggcrapp

 

[iron addict]

ANd IA brought you into this with your view on genetics like it was law.


Hardly.

Like "law" huh? I stated:

Here is a post by Doggcrap about genetics:

And I posted it because I, and many many board members hold Dogg's view in high esteem. He has proven himself as an extremely knowledgeable, extrordanary trainer, and total stand-up guy time and time again.

Iron Addict

I will take Dog

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yeah and squats are "magical".....

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Like "law" huh? I stated:

Here is a post by Doggcrap about genetics:

And I posted it because I, and many many board members hold Dogg's view in high esteem. He has proven himself as an extremely knowledgeable, extrordanary trainer, and total stand-up guy time and time again.

Iron Addict

I will take Dog

Never said he is a bad trainer. Never said he wasn't a stand up guy. Never said he hasn't helped people.


I said his clomid theory is ridiculous and I don't believe him when it comes to genetics.


What about that do you NOT get?

 

[iron addict]

Change the subject whenever confused....

Iron Addict

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Change the subject whenever confused....

Iron Addict

Change the subject? No, just pointing out how clueless you are.

 

[iron addict]

My age is posted and so are my pics. I'm not hiding from anything.

QUOTE]

Except the fact that you are one of the old/older guys that have little direct experience outside theirselves and a small group of BB's that provides a very small cross-section of genetic sampling.

Iron Addict