FORMERON FAQ

[Lhns2]

I think I might buy a bottle or two then.

You won't regret it.

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[steppinRazor]

I think I might buy a bottle or two then.

You won't regret it.

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well he might regret it if he only buys one... buy 2, man!!

 

[brundel]

Yah the only complaints we get is when people run out.

 

[Petrichor]

I have bloodwork confirming a 700% increase in test with 2 pumps per day and a free test increase 60% above the natural range so yes I think it could work well. It would also work well leading into and during PCT.

How much if any of that increase can be attributed to hydroxytest?

Also, is it redundant to try stacking with DAA and/or Divanex? Seems like formeron will already be pushing the boundaries on the same MOA and any effect from daa/divanil will just be washed out.

 

[brundel]

I dont think a blood test will identify hydroxytest as test. so Likely none.

I think adding DAA is a great idea.

 

[Petrichor]

Thanks man. Just placed my order.

 

[BigGame84]

at 5 pumps its not gonna last long. Couple weeks max.
Each pump is approx 1.5ml and there are 120ml so.... about 15 days.
Be gentle with the pump. NIce slow smooth downstroke so you get an even 1.5ml.

5 pumps is alot.

After a few days at 5 pumps, my shoulders started to hurt when lifting weights. Enough to stop my workout short. Obviously this was too much but proof how strong this stuff really is. Been using 1 pump every morning and 2 pumps every night before bed. This seems to be working better for me.

 

[TonyGT]

After a few days at 5 pumps, my shoulders started to hurt when lifting weights. Enough to stop my workout short. Obviously this was too much but proof how strong this stuff really is. Been using 1 pump every morning and 2 pumps every night before bed. This seems to be working better for me.

Damn 5 pumps a day lol! Anything more than 2 pumps a day makes my joints hurt.

 

[BigGame84]

Damn 5 pumps a day lol! Anything more than 2 pumps a day makes my joints hurt.

Yeah, well I was thinking more = better. My shoulders felt like glass was shattering inside them. 3 pumps a day seemed to work better the last few days and at that rate, 26 days/bottle isn't that bad IMO. I've been applying with my wrists and forearms but hard to reach my shoulders doing it that way. Just been applying to upper chest and pecs.

 

[TonyGT]

Yeah, well I was thinking more = better. My shoulders felt like glass was shattering inside them. 3 pumps a day seemed to work better the last few days and at that rate, 26 days/bottle isn't that bad IMO. I've been applying with my wrists and forearms but hard to reach my shoulders doing it that way. Just been applying to upper chest and pecs.

I do upper Chest in the morning and apply to the top of my feet at night.

 

[mw1]

I do upper Chest in the morning and apply to the top of my feet at night.

Tops of feet and inner biceps/forearms are also good application sites

 

[brundel]

After a few days at 5 pumps, my shoulders started to hurt when lifting weights. Enough to stop my workout short. Obviously this was too much but proof how strong this stuff really is. Been using 1 pump every morning and 2 pumps every night before bed. This seems to be working better for me.

Lol yes thats too much
At least you know its working haha.

 

[brundel]

Yeah, well I was thinking more = better. My shoulders felt like glass was shattering inside them. 3 pumps a day seemed to work better the last few days and at that rate, 26 days/bottle isn't that bad IMO. I've been applying with my wrists and forearms but hard to reach my shoulders doing it that way. Just been applying to upper chest and pecs.

Forearms are not the best place. Top of feet is ok as long as you dont plan on wearing shoes any time soon.
Sides of abdomen are good as well ...like the side of your stomach.

 

[Geoforce]

Forearms are not the best place. Top of feet is ok as long as you dont plan on wearing shoes any time soon.
Sides of abdomen are good as well ...like the side of your stomach.

Didn't you have a post earlier saying to rub in with the forearms or inside of arms to not waste product because none of it gets absorbed that hits the hand?

Or do you mean forearms like the front part of your arms and to use inside of arms (hand supinated) to apply?

Or am I imagining all of this?

 

[brundel]

Use wrist or forearm to apply to upper chest, neck, delts.
Not forearm to forearm. The reason to use forearm and not hand is hands are very thick.
Forearms are not the best but they are better than hands.

So you use forearm as an application tool.

 

[JD261985]

Wait so on the bottle it says apply to arms chest and shoulders..are forearms not a part of the arm. I rub forearm to forearm and up and down my arms. Are you telling me I'm not absorbing any. I've read posts where people say forearms are good. Shouldn't this be listed on the bottle then? I also rub my arms down with hand sanitizer after about ten to fifteen minutes of application

 

[Distilled Water]

Always good to rub some on your nippys :-D

formestane in the summer is good for me, helps keep my gyno down and drys me out. Transdermal formestane products have been drying up. Good to see there's still one around

 

[brundel]

Wait so on the bottle it says apply to arms chest and shoulders..are forearms not a part of the arm. I rub forearm to forearm and up and down my arms. Are you telling me I'm not absorbing any. I've read posts where people say forearms are good. Shouldn't this be listed on the bottle then? I also rub my arms down with hand sanitizer after about ten to fifteen minutes of application

It says arms stomach and shoulders.
Im saying use your forearm /wrist to apply to chest neck and delts.
Youll absorb through your forearms. Pretty much any skin will absorb it.
The thinner the skin the better. the Scrotum being the best place.
Bottom of feet the worst. Hands second worst hence the recommendation to use wrists to apply.

Ill change the next batch of labels.

 

[brundel]

Always good to rub some on your nippys :-D

formestane in the summer is good for me, helps keep my gyno down and drys me out. Transdermal formestane products have been drying up. Good to see there's still one around

I love me some formestane.
I went to a storefront supp store and was talking to the owner. I told him Id give him a bottler of Formeron for free. If he liked it email me and we can work something out. He emailed me 3 days later saying hed already lost 6 lbs of water weight and people are commenting on how lean his face looks. He ordered 48 bottles

 

[JD261985]

It says arms stomach and shoulders.
Im saying use your forearm /wrist to apply to chest neck and delts.
Youll absorb through your forearms. Pretty much any skin will absorb it.
The thinner the skin the better. the Scrotum being the best place.
Bottom of feet the worst. Hands second worst hence the recommendation to use wrists to apply.

Ill change the next batch of labels.

Wait..could I actually apply it to my scrotum? Lol and naw man no need to change labels I never put it on my hands I just didn't understand what you were saying before but I got it now. I love using the hand sani to make sure I get that full absorption as well

 

[JD261985]

I love me some formestane.
I went to a storefront supp store and was talking to the owner. I told him Id give him a bottler of Formeron for free. If he liked it email me and we can work something out. He emailed me 3 days later saying hed already lost 6 lbs of water weight and people are commenting on how lean his face looks. He ordered 48 bottles

Really does help with the water weight no doubt love that about it..48? Wow I only have 6..using it with dermacrine ATM

 

[Lhns2]

I love me some formestane.
I went to a storefront supp store and was talking to the owner. I told him Id give him a bottler of Formeron for free. If he liked it email me and we can work something out. He emailed me 3 days later saying hed already lost 6 lbs of water weight and people are commenting on how lean his face looks. He ordered 48 bottles

Do work!!!

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[Petrichor]

Wait..could I actually apply it to my scrotum?

only if you do it with your forearms

 

[brundel]

Really does help with the water weight no doubt love that about it..48? Wow I only have 6..using it with dermacrine ATM

Im pretty sure dermacrine has 7,8 benzoflavone.

THis compound has been show to cause liver cancer. Id drop it stat.

 

[Petrichor]

Any opinions of DHEA here?

I've been refamiliarizing myself with its metabolism. Seems like we could get a decent amount of 5AD with 4AD here, some 7-keto, and of course the inherent effects of DHEA itself.

But would it be beneficial in the grand scheme assuming some kind of negative feedback. I dunno. Just sandboxing it for now.

 

[jackswift]

Brundel,
dang, I don't like hearing that about 7, 8 benzoflavone . I was about to pick up several bottles of Dermacrine when they were back in stock. I was looking forward to stacking it with with Havoc in the near future, but now I'm thinking twice. Are there any good topical Dhea products that don't have that in it that you would recommend? Hhhmmm, maybe you could make something ? Sorry to get off topic!

 

[JD261985]

Im pretty sure dermacrine has 7,8 benzoflavone.

THis compound has been show to cause liver cancer. Id drop it stat.

Everything is linked to cancer in some way doesn't even for a minute mean I'm going to get cancer. Completely irrelevant to even point this out to anyone. Every food imaginable has been studied and is linked to certain cancers. You have to look at the other variables and factors. A number of different factors play into this. A 4 week run with dermacrine is not going to give me liver cancer lol come on now. Plus was this done in one study? Can you link the study? Does the study include a meta analysis?

 

[JD261985]

Ok anyway, I have a question that's important. Can I use formeron in PCT? Like even 1 pump?

 

[Lhns2]

Ok anyway, I have a question that's important. Can I use formeron in PCT? Like even 1 pump?

Yeah and I only used one pump a day. Plus there is no chance of rebound when coming off so that's a plus.

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[steppinRazor]

Everything is linked to cancer in some way doesn't even for a minute mean I'm going to get cancer. Completely irrelevant to even point this out to anyone. Every food imaginable has been studied and is linked to certain cancers. You have to look at the other variables and factors. A number of different factors play into this. A 4 week run with dermacrine is not going to give me liver cancer lol come on now. Plus was this done in one study? Can you link the study? Does the study include a meta analysis?

Better yet another study says while 7,8 may be carcinogenic, it may also prevent cancer lol..so take that for what its worth

 

[brundel]

Everything is linked to cancer in some way doesn't even for a minute mean I'm going to get cancer. Completely irrelevant to even point this out to anyone. Every food imaginable has been studied and is linked to certain cancers. You have to look at the other variables and factors. A number of different factors play into this. A 4 week run with dermacrine is not going to give me liver cancer lol come on now. Plus was this done in one study? Can you link the study? Does the study include a meta analysis?

TO say everything is linked to cancer in some way is wrong period. It my water linked to causing liver cancer? how about ice cream?


Environ Health Perspect. 1990 Aug;88:117-21.
[h=1]Role of metabolic activation in the carcinogenicity of estrogens: studies in an animal liver tumor model.[/h]Metzler M, Blaich G, Tritscher AM.
[h=3]Source[/h]Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Würzburg, Federal Republic of Germany.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Male Syrian golden hamsters chronically exposed to certain synthetic estrogens such as diethylstilbestrol (DES) or 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2) and fed a diet containing 7,8-benzoflavone (BF) develop a high incidence of liver tumors. No such tumors are found in animals treated with estrogen or BF alone. To clarify the role of metabolic activation of the estrogen and BF in the mechanism of hepatocarcinogenesis in this animal model, the effects of pretreatment with DES and EE2 alone and in combination with BF on the metabolism of DES, EE2, and BF in hepatic microsomes, isolated hepatocytes, and hamster bile were studied. Hamsters were pretreated for up to 32 weeks. The results clearly show that DES metabolism was not significantly modified under any pretreatment regimen. EE2 metabolism exhibited a slight increase in 2-hydroxylation after pretreatment with BF and with BF plus EE2. The most pronounced effect was observed in BF metabolism after pretreatment with BF, with BF plus DES, and with BF plus EE2: the metabolic rate was increased and several new metabolites that were not found in untreated or estrogen-pretreated animals were formed. These metabolites were tentatively identified as BF-dihydrodiol and dihydroxy-BFs. The formation of these new BF metabolites was accompanied by a change in the activities of certain cytochrome P-450 isoenzymes in hamster liver microsomes. The results of this study imply that metabolic activation of 7,8 benzoflavone rather than of the estrogens plays an important role in the mechanism of carcinogenesis in this animal liver tumor model.


PMID:2272305 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCIDMC1568013

 

[brundel]

[h=1]Effect of pretreatment of male Syrian golden hamsters with 7,8-benzoflavone and with diethylstilbestrol on P-450 isoenzyme activities and on microsomal diethylstilbestrol metabolism.[/h]Blaich G, Metzler M.
[h=3]Source[/h]Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Würzburg, F.R.G.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Combined treatment of male Syrian golden hamsters with the synthetic estrogen diethylstilbestrol (DES) and 7,8-benzoflavone (7,8-BF) gives rise to a high incidence of hepatocellular carcinomas. To determine whether alterations in DES metabolism may account for the observed hepatocarcinogenicity, we have studied the effect of pretreatment with 7,8-BF alone, DES alone and 7,8-BF plus DES on the levels of hepatic P-450 and cytochrome b5, on the activities of various P-450 isoenzymes and on microsomal DES metabolism. Hepatic P-450 content was significantly increased after pretreatment with 7,8-BF and decreased after DES, while combined pretreatment led to levels similar to those in untreated control animals. Hepatic cytochrome b5 was also elevated in 7,8-BF-treated hamsters; DES pretreatment had no effect, and combined pretreatment led to a slight increase. Four different substrates were used to probe P-450 isoenzyme activity. Aryl hydrocarbon hydroxylase (AHH), 7-ethoxycoumarin-O-deethylase (ECOD), 7-ethoxyresorufin-O-deethylase (EROD) and 7-pentoxyresorufin-O-dealkylase (PROD) were all elevated after 7,8-BF-pretreatment, while DES led to a decrease in these activities with the exception of AHH, where a transient increase which was observed after 8 and 20 weeks of pretreatment was back to control levels after 32 weeks. Combined pretreatment with 7,8-BF and DES led to an intermediate response (slight increase) with AHH, EROD and PROD, but not with ECOD, where a full induction comparable with that observed after 7,8-BF alone was elicited. In spite of the modulation of enzyme levels and activities observed after the various pretreatments, the metabolism of DES in microsomes from pretreated animals was virtually identical with that from controls. Therefore it is concluded that modulation of hepatic DES metabolism is not the reason for the observed hepatotumorigenicity; instead, it is speculated that 7,8-BF is the carcinogenic agent in this tumor model, and DES may act as a promotor.


PMID:3199832 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Lhns2]

Everything is linked to cancer in some way doesn't even for a minute mean I'm going to get cancer. Completely irrelevant to even point this out to anyone. Every food imaginable has been studied and is linked to certain cancers. You have to look at the other variables and factors. A number of different factors play into this. A 4 week run with dermacrine is not going to give me liver cancer lol come on now. Plus was this done in one study? Can you link the study? Does the study include a meta analysis?

If you have a higher probability of liver cancer taking let's say forma s vs formeron... and clearly formeron works extremely well without it. Why not opt for the more superior one without a cancer causing agent? If cancer is possible from everything why not stay with the lowest probability possible?

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[pump3d]

Abstract

Male Syrian golden hamsters chronically exposed to certain synthetic estrogens such as diethylstilbestrol (DES) or 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2) and fed a diet containing 7,8-benzoflavone (BF) develop a high incidence of liver tumors. No such tumors are found in animals treated with estrogen or BF alone. To clarify the role of metabolic activation of the estrogen and BF in the mechanism of hepatocarcinogenesis in this animal model, the effects of pretreatment with DES and EE2 alone and in combination with BF on the metabolism of DES, EE2, and BF in hepatic microsomes, isolated hepatocytes, and hamster bile were studied. Hamsters were pretreated for up to 32 weeks. The results clearly show that DES metabolism was not significantly modified under any pretreatment regimen. EE2 metabolism exhibited a slight increase in 2-hydroxylation after pretreatment with BF and with BF plus EE2. The most pronounced effect was observed in BF metabolism after pretreatment with BF, with BF plus DES, and with BF plus EE2: the metabolic rate was increased and several new metabolites that were not found in untreated or estrogen-pretreated animals were formed. These metabolites were tentatively identified as BF-dihydrodiol and dihydroxy-BFs. The formation of these new BF metabolites was accompanied by a change in the activities of certain cytochrome P-450 isoenzymes in hamster liver microsomes. The results of this study imply that metabolic activation of 7,8 benzoflavone rather than of the estrogens plays an important role in the mechanism of carcinogenesis in this animal liver tumor model.

Not sure why the first study was included, it says bf alone did not cause tumors

It's understandable to be worried, but how much do you know about the amount of BF they were fed, how this correlates to the amount in whatever thing you're discussing and the ability to translate things that happen in Syrian golden hamsters to humans.

Hey it may be super bad for you, but those studies don't really say that

 

[pump3d]

If you have a higher probability of liver cancer taking let's say forma s vs formeron... and clearly formeron works extremely well without it. Why not opt for the more superior one without a cancer causing agent? If cancer is possible from everything why not stay with the lowest probability possible?

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I bet you wear long sleeves and hats if you go outside, that sunlight is a killer

 

[Lhns2]

I bet you wear long sleeves and hats if you go outside, that sunlight is a killer

The longest sleeves, thickest turtleneck sweaters, and just layered sunscreen. Don't forget I wear sombrero hats Sun or rain.

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[pump3d]

The longest sleeves, thickest turtleneck sweaters, and just layered sunscreen. Don't forget I wear sombrero hats Sun or rain.

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Safety first!

 

[BigGame84]

Just finished my 1st bottle, or thought I was finished...

No more would pump out but when I opened the cap, a lot was still at the bottom and sides. So for the past 3 days, I've been just pouring some out without the pump.

 

[Geoforce]

Just finished my 1st bottle, or thought I was finished...

No more would pump out but when I opened the cap, a lot was still at the bottom and sides. So for the past 3 days, I've been just pouring some out without the pump.

How did it go?

 

[BigGame84]

How did it go?

To be honest, I can't really give a fair review because I am on a Phera/Ment cycle. So not sure what is a result of what, if you know what I mean. I will say this; I was using 4/5 pumps a day and my shoulder joints were hurting like crazy. So this tells me the Formeron was doing its thing and is strong. I cut back to 2 pumps/day. I think it has a nice smell and dries within a minute or two. I bought a 2nd bottle that I will use through my PCT when I am done in a week with my cycle. Perhaps that will be a better time for me to give a review.
I've used Erase in the past and liked my results. But I will say that Formeron has now replaced that.

 

[Geoforce]

To be honest, I can't really give a fair review because I am on a Phera/Ment cycle. So not sure what is a result of what, if you know what I mean. I will say this; I was using 4/5 pumps a day and my shoulder joints were hurting like crazy. So this tells me the Formeron was doing its thing and is strong. I cut back to 2 pumps/day. I think it has a nice smell and dries within a minute or two. I bought a 2nd bottle that I will use through my PCT when I am done in a week with my cycle. Perhaps that will be a better time for me to give a review.
I've used Erase in the past and liked my results. But I will say that Formeron has now replaced that.

Sweet. I have two bottles that I have been holding off on running for various reasons and that has been hard as hell on me because by all accounts this is a freaking awesome product. I have a Trop XP log to run and once that is over it's Formeron plus DAA run already planned so I'm looking forward to it.

 

[BigGame84]

Sweet. I have two bottles that I have been holding off on running for various reasons and that has been hard as hell on me because by all accounts this is a freaking awesome product. I have a Trop XP log to run and once that is over it's Formeron plus DAA run already planned so I'm looking forward to it.

2 pumps/day will probably last close to 5 weeks a bottle. Just note what I posted earlier.. When nothing more pumps out, there's still more left in the bottle. Just open the cap and pour some out on your wrists. I'm getting an extra 3-4 days a bottle doing this. The carrier seems top notch as well.

 

[Geoforce]

2 pumps/day will probably last close to 5 weeks a bottle. Just note what I posted earlier.. When nothing more pumps out, there's still more left in the bottle. Just open the cap and pour some out on your wrists. I'm getting an extra 3-4 days a bottle doing this. The carrier seems top notch as well.

Yeah that isn't surprising. I've actually noticed this without almost any topical I've ever ran whether it's pump or spray based doesn't matter. You got some stuff at the bottom that simply doesn't come out at the end of the bottle, but it's still good just pour it on instead of spray/pump!

 

[Petrichor]

Just got my bottle today. Like others have said, it does smell pretty nice. However, there's a bunch of undissolved crystals (what I'm guessing is the 4-OHA) in the gel which seem to just hang around on the skin surface. Is this normal? Has the 4-OHA fallen out of solution?

 

[steppinRazor]

Just got my bottle today. Like others have said, it does smell pretty nice. However, there's a bunch of undissolved crystals (what I'm guessing is the 4-OHA) in the gel which seem to just hang around on the skin surface. Is this normal? Has the 4-OHA fallen out of solution?

Confirmed that this is normal... Its been suggested you could use some hand sanitizer to further devolve the remaining formestane...i never did this but still got great results

 

[brundel]

Its normal.
Only a small% gets through the skin.

Androgel has an expected top end absorption rate of 10%. which is actually pretty good.
Formeron is about the same.
the crystals will brush off or try some alcohol based hand sanitizer on the application site about 15 min after application.

 

[Petrichor]

So at 10%, we're getting about 5mg of 4-oha per ml?

 

[jack_black]

Can I use this stuff to JO with?

 

[Lhns2]

Can I use this stuff to JO with?

Sand paper is cheaper

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[jack_black]

No kidding I just ordered some sand paper to apply my formeron with I think it will absorb better that way