Fat loss insan1ty with Sup3r-11 and Ignit3

Rand0m

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I used to be exactly like that too, all or nothing. When you have a lot of weight to lose it's dreadful thinking about how long it could take. I know this from a long personal journey from being around 25% down to single digits. It's extreme but I do know PSMF works. But the rebound from it was real for me. Especially the mental aspect. I definitely didn't prepare myself at the time which was probably more important than the diet itself. I switched to a flexible diet afterwards and have been a slow and steady guy ever since. For me, the habitual part was the most important factor in maintaining leanness. Keep at it bud.
 
HIT4ME

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Good morning all!

Morning weigh in:

Bodyweigh: 189.5
Bodyfat %: 28%
Waist: 41.25"

Gotta get going to work, so that's all I have right now...
 

ma70

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But the gaining back of the weight wasn't a rebound effect of my body. It was a rebound effect of my habits
Arguably, it was probably a rebound effect of your body and habits. You know the whole "set point" theory, right?
 
HIT4ME

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Arguably, it was probably a rebound effect of your body and habits. You know the whole "set point" theory, right?
I'm aware of this, but I believe the laws of thermodynamics over rule a theory such as this, given only anecdotal evidence. Worst case, I test the theory and prove you right :) It's totally possible, and there's substantial anecdotal evidence for it - so I'm not saying it's wrong. Just worth questioning.
 

ma70

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I'm aware of this, but I believe the laws of thermodynamics over rule a theory such as this, given only anecdotal evidence. Worst case, I test the theory and prove you right :) It's totally possible, and there's substantial anecdotal evidence for it - so I'm not saying it's wrong. Just worth questioning.
I mean, it doesn't really matter if I'm right. I'm just saying, I hope you can maintain your weight afterwards because of how hard you're working now. I couldn't last past 10 days on a PSMF.
 
HIT4ME

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I mean, it doesn't really matter if I'm right. I'm just saying, I hope you can maintain your weight afterwards because of how hard you're working now. I couldn't last past 10 days on a PSMF.
I hope so too!!! I am with you. I'm aware of the theories on dieting like this. I like to push limits and test things, so in the name of science, I'm gonna crash and burn :)

My plan is to do about 6-8 weeks at a less aggressive deficit/maint. level after this run. My hope is I can get down to about 165-170 in the next 6 weeks (!!!) and then spend 4 weeks getting from there down to 160 at a less aggressive pace, and then spend time at maint. The issue is falling off the diet when it is not planned. The last time, I was on it for 4 months, took a 2 week break and then never got back on it...it just kind of fell apart, so I didn't follow the plan for the phase directly after the PSMF.

I think the issue is that people think there is a magic way that your body can spend fewer calories to accomplish the same tasks when there is a caloric deficit. i.e. - if you're eating enough your body will just burn extra calories, and if you aren't eating enough you will adjust and burn fewer calories. This doesn't make sense at all.

What does make sense for metabolic slow down is that if you weigh 300 pounds, you are going to burn many more calories walking around than you are going to burn at 200 pounds. I think part of the issue is that people start a diet, figure out they are burning 2800 calories/day, lose a ton of weight, and then when they go off the diet they go back to 2800 calories thinking that's "maintenance" and then when they gain weight they say, "rebound" or "starvation mode" and that's really not the case, it's just that at the lower weight, their new calorie expenditure is more like 2400-2500 calories/day.

As far as this being difficult, honestly, this is actually easier on me in some ways than a 500 calorie deficit would be. Mentally, if I have an extra 100 or even 200 calories, I know it won't make a big difference and I just get back to the diet. If I did that in a 500 calorie deficit, I'd blow my diet for the day. It's kind of less strict in a weird way. It leaves more room for error.

And other than last week, this hasn't been sooo bad. Obviously you have the mental issues of wanting to lose it faster, or wondering why it isn't coming off faster, etc. and I've been a little foggy and light headed and extremely tired. What is strange is that last week was really the first week that I felt like, "Wow, this just got hard". I've been sleeping a ton the entire time I've been on this and it's been hard to wake up in the morning. I DO think this is a combination of low cortisol from the Sup3r-11 and the caloric deficit (of course). I've been foggy and disconnected, which is solely the caloric deficit.

Today, I woke up earlier than normal, didn't have to force myself out of bed, and I actually feel pretty good. Maybe last week was just the dark before the dawn? I don't know. I hope so, haha.

As far as the Sup3r-11, this stuff should decrease cortisol. I believe it does and I think that the fact that I've been sleeping so much, so deeply, etc. is a sign of lower cortisol, which is a sign that it is working. I'm also a little less stressed out feeling. I also believe the lower cortisol MAY be the reason my stim tolerance has fallen dramatically, but I'm not sure of this. In other words, everything I thought was because of the T3, I now attribute to the Sup3r-11 because I think the T3 was junk. None of this is negative as far as I'm concerned, in my eyes it actually shows the 11 is doing what it is supposed to, maybe better than expected.

Also, I typically lose about 0.5 pounds per day as an average over time. I'm at about 23 pounds over 42 days now - which means that over 6 weeks I've lost 2 pounds that I wouldn't have lost normally. It may seem small, but it's almost a 10% increase. PLUS, I just had a week with 3 cheat meals and so on. Another way to look at that is that if I was on a 500 cal/day deficit - that would be just 6 pounds over those 6 weeks that I lost, and at that point an additional 2 pounds from the 11 would be extremely significant!
 

Rand0m

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I'm aware of this, but I believe the laws of thermodynamics over rule a theory such as this, given only anecdotal evidence. Worst case, I test the theory and prove you right :) It's totally possible, and there's substantial anecdotal evidence for it - so I'm not saying it's wrong. Just worth questioning.
What explains plateaus then?
 
HIT4ME

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What explains plateaus then?
Well, I think it's kind of a non-linear thing that we expect to be linear. Weight isn't exactly a perfect measurement either. For instance, Lyle Mcdonald has the theory to explain why you may stick at a weight for a week and then all of a sudden lose 3 pounds or more in 1 day. His theory is that as the fat burns from fat cells, the cells fill the empty space with water to stabilize, and then as time goes on the cells release the water and suddenly you've lost 3 pounds. Look at my log and you can see this kind of happens - I'll touch a low weight, gain a couple pounds, stick there for a while, and then lose 3-4 pounds suddenly and start all over.

I think a lot of times people are in the process of losing weight, and they think they're at a plateau because they haven't lost anything in a little while and they worry too quickly. If they just keep doing what they're doing, it will start up again.

And there are some scientific studies suggesting metabolic slowdown so I'm not completely saying it's wrong - but Lyle Mcdonald states that at MOST it will account for a 30% reduction in calories, and this is typically more pronounced the leaner you get. So someone like me who is over 20% bodyfat really shouldn't be worried too much about metabolic slowdown.

Also, keep in mind the example I used above - someone may have a TDE of 2800 calories/day when they weigh 300 pounds and they base their math on that, drop to 275 or 250 pounds on 2300 calories/day and then the progress stops. This isn't because their body functions have changed, it's because the functions are supporting a lower activity level now - it burns less calories to walk around at 250 than at 300. If they continue to eat 2300 calories, it may not be a 500 calorie deficit anymore. It may be a 200 calorie deficit or none at all. They need to recalculate.

The idea that your body will just randomly burn extra calories because you eat more (which is really the logic behind starvation mode) is really, really lovely sounding. I wish it were true. I wouldn't have become so fat eating so much.
 

Rand0m

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I agree. I've read everything Lyle has written over the years. I think fat loss being non linear is an understatement at lower body fat. But then again, I don't think the majority of modern man was meant to be in single digit bodyfat for a variety of reasons.
 
motiv8er

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Great thread and drive bro!
 
HIT4ME

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I agree. I've read everything Lyle has written over the years. I think fat loss being non linear is an understatement at lower body fat. But then again, I don't think the majority of modern man was meant to be in single digit bodyfat for a variety of reasons.
Yeah, Lyle really reduces things to simple strategies and tries to stick to the science. He spends a good portion of his PSMF book talking about how to come off, planning for things, etc. I think he spends 10 pages actually laying out the diet.

Great thread and drive bro!
Thanks man! I appreciate the support, and I appreciate the people who question things, because that's really what I'm doing too - questioning things and experimenting. I am glad if anyone finds it interesting and even more glad if anyone finds it useful.
 

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What explains plateaus then?
You have to keep in mind reduced testosterone production, reduced thyroid production, reduced leptin secretion, etc. This is why refeeds are successful in plateau busting, a momentary increase in test, thyroid and leptin allows you to keep making progress. Linear deficits allow your body to adjust, and overtime they become less and less effective. I'm a fan of calculated TDEE's, eating 500 cal below, and then when plateaus appear, increasing cardio, dropping calories by 50-100cal, introducing timed carb ups or refeeds (from clean sources), recalculating TDEE's after a period of time due to new body compositions. It's beyond me why people refeed with 'cheat meals' because you cannot accurately gauge the calories you're ingesting. You CAN out-eat an entire weeks deficit if you are careless. I've seen people online out-eat T3 and DNP.
 
HIT4ME

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Tonight's back workout:

Deadlift:
1 x 8 x 225 warm up

Drop set:
1 x 405
1 x 375
2 x 345
4 x 315

Pull-Ups:
1 x 6 x B.W.

Bent-Over Rows:
1 x 4 x 175

Under-Handed Pull-Downs:
Drop Set:
7 x 135
2 x 120
1 x 105 (I probably had a second rep, but I gave into the pain mentally so we will never know for sure).

Got the 405 off the ground. I wasn't going to get a second rep, but I may have been able to do 410 for 1 rep as 405 wasn't quite all out.

This is puts me back almost to where I was 2-3 weeks ago.

I had a small package of beef jerky and a convenience store protein shake this afternoon for 260 calories and 34 grams of protein, and a 50 cal cheese stick with 7 grams of protein when I got home. Endur3 intra workout. 1 scoop of Isomorph for another 130 cals and 28 grams protein and that's it so far.

Tonight I am having some mahi mahi for 200 calories, a bag of broccoli for 120 calories, and another scoop of protein powder for 130 cals. This should leave me just under 900 calories and about 145 grams of protein.
 
Bult

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What is magic magic? Sounds Magical
 
HIT4ME

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hairygrandpa

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Impressive lifting considering your cal deficit!
 

Rand0m

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You have to keep in mind reduced testosterone production, reduced thyroid production, reduced leptin secretion, etc. This is why refeeds are successful in plateau busting, a momentary increase in test, thyroid and leptin allows you to keep making progress. Linear deficits allow your body to adjust, and overtime they become less and less effective. I'm a fan of calculated TDEE's, eating 500 cal below, and then when plateaus appear, increasing cardio, dropping calories by 50-100cal, introducing timed carb ups or refeeds (from clean sources), recalculating TDEE's after a period of time due to new body compositions. It's beyond me why people refeed with 'cheat meals' because you cannot accurately gauge the calories you're ingesting. You CAN out-eat an entire weeks deficit if you are careless. I've seen people online out-eat T3 and DNP.
Agreed. I track all my refeeds (which are more like carb up days). I've eaten a week's deficit in one meal before hah. Living right by one of the best AYCE Korean BBQ spots around doesn't help.
 
HIT4ME

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Impressive lifting considering your cal deficit!
Thank you sir! Welcome back! I felt much better than last week. Just gotta keep pushing.
 
HIT4ME

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Agreed. I track all my refeeds (which are more like carb up days). I've eaten a week's deficit in one meal before hah. Living right by one of the best AYCE Korean BBQ spots around doesn't help.
Lol, I have done this too! Like every other week. Haha.
 

Hastur

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Agreed. I track all my refeeds (which are more like carb up days). I've eaten a week's deficit in one meal before hah. Living right by one of the best AYCE Korean BBQ spots around doesn't help.
Lol, I have done this too! Like every other week. Haha.
...we've all done it... ;)

Things happen, haha. Then you get back on the wagon and keep going. :p
 
HIT4ME

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Most my friends are Korean and hanging out with them is an endless night of drinking and eating.
Lol, I don't need the help of friends to pig out!! :)

Today's weigh in:

Bodyweigh: 189.0
Tanita Bodyfat %: 27%
Waist: 41"
 
hairygrandpa

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Lol, I don't need the help of friends to pig out!! :)

Today's weigh in:

Bodyweigh: 189.0
Tanita Bodyfat %: 27%
Waist: 41"
Numbers looking good!
 
HIT4ME

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Numbers looking good!
Yes, going in the right direction. That's all I can ask. Just over 6 weeks ago I was 212.5 ...hard to believe now. My clothes are all fitting better and my smaller sized pants are getting loose. My belts are all loose on their smallest hole. When I look in the mirror, I still have the spare tire and it is hard to see a difference, but I can feel that my stomach is so much smaller and my arms are getting harder feeling.

I did something to my shoulder today, so I am going to do my shoulder and tri workout tomorrow.

So far today I have eaten a small package of beef jerky and a muscle milk for 260 calls and 39 grams of protein, and a cheese stick (50 cals/7 g pro) and for dinner I had Tilapia (160 calls, 34 g pro) and a bag of broccoli. I am splurging later on a scoop of Select mixed with half a package of pudding and water. (170 calls and 24 g pro). Totals will be about 770 calories and about 110 g protein. A little light on the protein today.
 
HIT4ME

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Also, I don't know what was going on last week, but I am feeling much better lately and my energy levels seem to be coming back up.
 
hairygrandpa

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Yes, going in the right direction. That's all I can ask. Just over 6 weeks ago I was 212.5 ...hard to believe now. My clothes are all fitting better and my smaller sized pants are getting loose. My belts are all loose on their smallest hole. When I look in the mirror, I still have the spare tire and it is hard to see a difference, but I can feel that my stomach is so much smaller and my arms are getting harder feeling.

I did something to my shoulder today, so I am going to do my shoulder and tri workout tomorrow.

So far today I have eaten a small package of beef jerky and a muscle milk for 260 calls and 39 grams of protein, and a cheese stick (50 cals/7 g pro) and for dinner I had Tilapia (160 calls, 34 g pro) and a bag of broccoli. I am splurging later on a scoop of Select mixed with half a package of pudding and water. (170 calls and 24 g pro). Totals will be about 770 calories and about 110 g protein. A little light on the protein today.
Spare tire and fat on the chest will go last, IMHO. Just stay the course!
I'm down 6lbs in 3 days (water for sure), slowly augmenting cardio while going full keto for 10 days, then carb back loading.
It's my third attempt on cutting to see my abs more clearly, this time I will succeed.
Cash bets are accepted, lol.
 
HIT4ME

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Spare tire and fat on the chest will go last, IMHO. Just stay the course!
I'm down 6lbs in 3 days (water for sure), slowly augmenting cardio while going full keto for 10 days, then carb back loading.
It's my third attempt on cutting to see my abs more clearly, this time I will succeed.
Cash bets are accepted, lol.
You only fail when you give up! I want to see some results man. I've been following your log, you've got quite the following.

And I only bet when I am sure I am gonna win. I don't think I want to bet against you!
 
Bult

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You'll have to shave them first!
 
HIT4ME

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You'll have to shave them first!
Shave? Sounds like we should be talking about pruning shears.

I am the same way though...I am hairy like an ape.
 
hairygrandpa

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You only fail when you give up! I want to see some results man. I've been following your log, you've got quite the following.

And I only bet when I am sure I am gonna win. I don't think I want to bet against you!
It's a marathon, not a sprint. I'm backing you 100% on your journey, we are pretty like-minded.
Look at my pictures, first post of my log, it took me 1 year and 8 month to where I am now -and I'm still far from my goal.
All that: "Get ripped in only 60 days" supplement propaganda is crap, it does not work for someone with 30%+ BF and 10+ years of inactivity.

What depressed me most was the fact that the fat melted on the wrong places first. The second blow was the lose skin around my belly afterwards.
I figured, if I build enough muscles, the lose skin will tighten up, I was right, but this means I have to get- and stay huge to keep the skin tight.

As you see, we are sitting in the same boat, LOL!
 
HIT4ME

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It's a marathon, not a sprint. I'm backing you 100% on your journey, we are pretty like-minded.
Look at my pictures, first post of my log, it took me 1 year and 8 month to where I am now -and I'm still far from my goal.
All that: "Get ripped in only 60 days" supplement propaganda is crap, it does not work for someone with 30%+ BF and 10+ years of inactivity.

What depressed me most was the fact that the fat melted on the wrong places first. The second blow was the lose skin around my belly afterwards.
I figured, if I build enough muscles, the lose skin will tighten up, I was right, but this means I have to get- and stay huge to keep the skin tight.

As you see, we are sitting in the same boat, LOL!
I hear that. You carry way more muscle than me though. For now!
 
hairygrandpa

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I hear that. You carry way more muscle than me though. For now!
Hehehe! That's the spirit! LOL
Can it be that you are my lost twin brother? I can hear me talking, LOL!
Too funny!
 
HIT4ME

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Hehehe! That's the spirit! LOL
Can it be that you are my lost twin brother? I can hear me talking, LOL!
Too funny!
LOL, you know what they say about great minds....

Today's weigh in:

Bodyweight: 188.5 pounds
Bodyfat %: 27%
Waist: 41%

Whatever I did to my shoulder, it's pretty bad....woke up and it hurts just to lift my arm. I hope this doesn't take too long to heal. It hurts in my shoulder and at my elbow where my bicep attaches...probably pulled a bicep or something.
 
HIT4ME

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That's bad news, bro. Whatever you do, DON'T force it!
Maybe it's time for some abs- and cardio sessions.
Look at this thread:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/injury-rehab/282556-lifteds-guide-super.html
Thanks man! It actually is feeling much better this afternoon. I'm going to give it a couple days. I was tossing a ball around a couple days ago and I wonder if that did it, or maybe that and the deadlifts, who knows. It just randomly started hurting.

As long as I keep the rotation to a minimum it's pretty good right now. It's weird, if I raise my arm out like I'm doing a front dumbbell raise, it goes up fine, but as I lower it, it hurts a little - and gets worse when it's pointing straight to the front. It's not too bad now though - I may be back at it tomorrow. If not, I'm going to do legs on Sat. and skip the shoulder workout. It sucks because my shoulders need the most work I think...

Thanks for the link!
 

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Thanks man! It actually is feeling much better this afternoon. I'm going to give it a couple days. I was tossing a ball around a couple days ago and I wonder if that did it, or maybe that and the deadlifts, who knows. It just randomly started hurting.

As long as I keep the rotation to a minimum it's pretty good right now. It's weird, if I raise my arm out like I'm doing a front dumbbell raise, it goes up fine, but as I lower it, it hurts a little - and gets worse when it's pointing straight to the front. It's not too bad now though - I may be back at it tomorrow. If not, I'm going to do legs on Sat. and skip the shoulder workout. It sucks because my shoulders need the most work I think...

Thanks for the link!
Don't push it, man. Don't be like me! I've done a lot of stupid things while I hurt/was injured because I didn't want to skip a workout or go light. In hindsight, I wish I'd taken it easy. Chances are, if the pain is random, then it's nothing serious. Typically injuries have pretty clear causes we can go back to in our minds. I get random pains that I attribute to sleeping oddly.
 
HIT4ME

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Don't push it, man. Don't be like me! I've done a lot of stupid things while I hurt/was injured because I didn't want to skip a workout or go light. In hindsight, I wish I'd taken it easy. Chances are, if the pain is random, then it's nothing serious. Typically injuries have pretty clear causes we can go back to in our minds. I get random pains that I attribute to sleeping oddly.
Me? Push it? Noooo
 
raul87

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I had to stop benching heavy for 3 months and completely stop shoulder pressing any weight up until yesterday don't push shoulder issues. I'm finally benching what I was before it was a big set back for me as I'm looking to join the 400lb bench club don't push your luck.
 
HIT4ME

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I had to stop benching heavy for 3 months and completely stop shoulder pressing any weight up until yesterday don't push shoulder issues. I'm finally benching what I was before it was a big set back for me as I'm looking to join the 400lb bench club don't push your luck.
Yeah, I won't. I think this is really minor. Just pulled something while throwing a ball too hard I bet. It is feeling better already and I will take tomorrow off. If it doesn't hurt tomorrow and Saturday, I will give my shoulder workout a shot. If it hurts at all in either day, I will do legs on Saturday and then see how it feels.
 
HIT4ME

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Ok, woke up an my arm still hurts a bit - so I'm probably going to have to hold off for a little while on any pressing workouts. I'll try to do legs tomorrow.

Morning weigh in:

Bodyweight: 187.5
Tanita Bodyfat %: 26%
Waist: 41"

Glad to see the bodyfat % going down as the weight drops. I know it's not totally accurate, but it seems to be pretty close to my estimates too, and if it's correct it has me at 10% at 155 pounds. I was planning on 10% @ 160 - I'm sure it'll be somewhere in there...
 

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You shouldn't go heavy anymore imo, it seems like the calorie deficiency you're in isn't allowing your muscles to recover, including your quad. You probably pulled your bicep while deadlifting, definitely see a physical therapist before trying to use it. You want it to heal ASAP. Glad your bf% is going down!
 
HIT4ME

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You shouldn't go heavy anymore imo, it seems like the calorie deficiency you're in isn't allowing your muscles to recover, including your quad. You probably pulled your bicep while deadlifting, definitely see a physical therapist before trying to use it. You want it to heal ASAP. Glad your bf% is going down!
Yeah, I think that's what I did maybe. I was throwing a ball around with a friend and threw it up in the air. I could have done it then and then the dead upset it. It definitely feels like a muscle issue not a joint issue. Just some days of rest will heal it.

It's just unfortunate that I've had two minor issues while doing a log. My quads are much better now. I think the squats every other day while in such a deficit was just too much.
 
HIT4ME

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Today's weigh in:

Bodyweight: 188
Tanita Bodyfat %: 25%
Waist: 41"

My shoulder actually hurt worse yesterday than it did on Thursday, but this morning it feels a lot better. Like 95% right now. We will see if it comes back, but it usually gets better during the day, even though yesterday I was having trouble even moving my arm to use a computer mouse.

I'm thinking I may take today off too and hit legs tomorrow night. That way I will have tomorrow and Monday to be sure it is healed before doing any chest or bicep work.
 
hairygrandpa

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Looking good despite the shoulder issue, go-go-go!
 
HIT4ME

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It's been 2 more weeks already! Unfortunately I had a pretty big cheat meal last night - my gf wanted Chinese and I just did it. I try to cheat 1X per week and that put me at 6 days, so I'll be back on the schedule I like. I probably should have skipped it and gone for 2 weeks, but I'm not trying to torture myself. Unfortunately, the meal had an impact on this morning's weigh in, but it will come off quick. I'm actually feeling bloated, which is unusual. There was a ton of sodium in the meal, so I'm sure I'm holding water and I drank almost a 3/4 of gallon of water after the meal.

The morning weigh in was:

Bodyweight: 190
Tanita Bodyfat %: 26%
Waist: 41.25"

Chest 42" (-1")
Legs: 25.5" (0.0")
Biceps: 15" (-0.25")

Bodyfat Caliper Measurements:
Chest: 6 mm (-2)
Waist: 25 mm (-1)
Thigh: 15 mm (0)


And progress photos are as follows:

Week 6 vs.resized.jpg


week 6.resized.jpg


I didn't do my leg workout last night. I will do it tonight - I've just got a lot to get done this weekend and finding time has been difficult. But this is good for my shoulder, which is feeling 100% better right now. It killed me on Friday, was OK yesterday, and is fine again this morning. Not hitting it until tomorrow with anything is probably for the best.
 

Hastur

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That side profile is the most telling. You can definitely see a leaning out. Keep at it, man! You'll see more upper abdominal visibility and that will push you to keep going!
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

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That side profile is the most telling. You can definitely see a leaning out. Keep at it, man! You'll see more upper abdominal visibility and that will push you to keep going!
Thanks man, I still have a long way to go, but I think having this log and everyone on here pushing me, I will just keep pushing until it happens. My pants and shirts are much much looser now, and I'm starting to feel a difference. I can see in the side profile that my Dunlop disease is starting to go away, which is a good sign, haha.
 

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