Fasted training
- Thread starter 0071982WC
- Start date
ssbackwards
Well-known member
probably not, take in some BCAAs, i like just leucine during workout. i usually do 10g.
kingjameskjf
Well-known member
I have tried it for months on the LG diet. I noticed that my strength was about the same BUT I fatigued much faster and didn't have the same energy level. IMO, this slightly limited the total intensity I could get out of my training and thereby was a limiting factor in the maximum rate of my possible progression.
redrobe
New member
I like to workout in a fasted state. I just feel lighter and my body isn't devoting any energy to digestion. And then it sure is fun to eat like a lion after the post-workout shower.
But like anything, it has it's pros and cons. I do notice an increase in energy when I workout later in the day and have consumed some calories but for some reason I tend to stick with the fasted workouts.
But like anything, it has it's pros and cons. I do notice an increase in energy when I workout later in the day and have consumed some calories but for some reason I tend to stick with the fasted workouts.
redrobe
New member
I haven't. I've read plenty of recommendations on taking BCAA's before a fasted workout but I just don't have the cash to try it out. I've cut myself off from buying supplements for awhile. I follow a lazy "lean gains" protocol. I eat between 12-8pm or 1-9pm, keep the protein up and don't worry much about my carbs but overall get in the right number of calories for the day/week, and just train hard.
I'm happy with the results. I've dropped 18 lbs in the last 7-8 months and have held onto my muscle. I'm 5'10 160lb so I'm not big but in good shape.
You're lookin' good in your icon pic. Keep it up and don't be afraid to try out fasted training for awhile. Check out leangains.com that guy has way more info than me.
I'm happy with the results. I've dropped 18 lbs in the last 7-8 months and have held onto my muscle. I'm 5'10 160lb so I'm not big but in good shape.
You're lookin' good in your icon pic. Keep it up and don't be afraid to try out fasted training for awhile. Check out leangains.com that guy has way more info than me.
tubbednova
Member
I have a tough time doing my light recovery routines fasted if i overdo it just alittle or even not eat the right fruit/protein afterwards(fast digested/higher glucose)i have fatigue for hours afterwards now.
This is with a h/r of only around 130bpm at the highest didn't use to have this "problem"so fasted training(lifting,running,ect)is a no no for me.
Plus a to friggin hungry when i wake up to train with any more intensity!My morning coffee only takes the hunger away long enough to either do a 45-60min recovery w/o and make breakfast
This is with a h/r of only around 130bpm at the highest didn't use to have this "problem"so fasted training(lifting,running,ect)is a no no for me.
Plus a to friggin hungry when i wake up to train with any more intensity!My morning coffee only takes the hunger away long enough to either do a 45-60min recovery w/o and make breakfast
Skyline310
New member
It really depends on how your own body
Responds to it .
Remember we are all different
Some can train fasted and others can't
Me myself cannot train fasted
Responds to it .
Remember we are all different
Some can train fasted and others can't
Me myself cannot train fasted
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I would say at the very least some EAA/added leucine would be a nice addition, then just have your PWO shake, or meal.
I trained fasted for a LONG time.
I trained fasted for a LONG time.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
IMO, no but I will echo the other comments suggesting to get some aminos in. My favorite fasted training method is using the AP protocol
ssbackwards
Well-known member
i like 10g leucine during my workout!!!
best thing ive ever done.
best thing ive ever done.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
Why only leucine?
AustrianOakJr
Member
I would say that it is probably not optimal to train fasted. Im not sure there are any conclusive studies to point to one way of the other, but logic tells me that if you are low on energy then intensity may suffer. When your overall calorie intake is at or above maintenance, then catabolism isnt as big of a worry because glycogen stores are going to be topped off so glucose will be your main fuel source When in a caloric deficit you need to be a bit more careful as you get depleted, your body is much more likely to chew on muscle during the especially catabolic time of training. Definitely get some BCAA's in, and it would probably be wise to have a small shot of carbs as well.
ssbackwards
Well-known member
not really
ketones preserve muscle. and if your eating carbs glycogen is full. muscle glycogen cant be used to sustain blood glucose. so if your training anaerobically its not going to matter if you lift. glycogen is full.
ketones preserve muscle. and if your eating carbs glycogen is full. muscle glycogen cant be used to sustain blood glucose. so if your training anaerobically its not going to matter if you lift. glycogen is full.
AustrianOakJr
Member
Im not sure I understand your post. But I am assuming the OP is not using a ketogenic based diet (as he never stated he was). If you are training anaerobically, then muscle glycogen is going to be the main fuel source that your target muscle is using to lift the weight.
As you get further and further into a diet, even when dieting on relatively high carbohydrates, muscle glycogen is topped off less and less as dietary carbohydrates are used to fuel normal daily activity. As you become more depleted (but not switched over to ketones because carbs are not below that ketogenic threshold) it is much more likely that broken down muscle tissue (aminos acids) are used as fuel while in the gym. This is muscle catabolism and this is what we are trying to mitigate as much as possible as we train. By ingesting a small dose of carbs in a depleted state, we spare those amino acids to be redistributed to muscle repair when we are back in an anabolic state at some point following the training session.
0071982WC
Member
I feel great in the early am! No problems with energy issues or anything. Still gradually making strength gains. I stick around 7% bf at 160lbs. My goal is to be around 175 at the same bf. I'm in no hurry, just wanted to know if I'm spinning my wheels by training fasted. I recentl started taking 5g of unflavored bcaa preworkout. Is this enough to ward of catabolism. I'm not big on sups, just like to stick with creapure and quality natural whey. Like I said having a great journey on this bodybuilding adventure, so all input is appreciated. Are my goals unrealistic while trying to stay so lean.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
No your not. It really just boils down to a preference
AustrianOakJr
Member
In this case where your energy levels are great and you are not in a calorie deficit, I would agree with JudoJosh. No, you are probably not limiting gains. You said yourself that you are making strength gains....so you kind of answered your own question. If its working, keep it up!!
If you start to diet (in a deficit), you might want to rethink your strategy because the game changes a bit as you lean out further.ssbackwards
Well-known member
all im saying is glycogen is still available, and recycled through lactate as well.
50g is more then enough IMO to serve through a workout.
It has been claimed that carbohydrates serve as a primer for fat catabolism ("fats burn in a carbohydrate flame"). However, as pointed out by Robergs and Roberts [Invalid Link Removed], this is an incorrect contention. In skeletal muscle, fat certainly does not burn in a carbohydrate flame, as skeletal muscle does not have sufficient quantities of the enzymes to convert glycolytic intermediates into molecules that can be transported into the mitochondria to supplement citric acid cycle intermediates. Further, the production of acetoacyl CoA, a substrate of ketone body formation, can occur only in the liver and thus does not apply to skeletal muscle metabolism. Human skeletal muscle can oxidize at least seven amino acids: leucine, isoleucine, valine, glutamate, asparagine, aspartate and alanine. Of these amino acids, however, oxidation of only the branched chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine) appears to be increased during catabolic states such as exercise.
When muscle glycogen and blood glucose concentrations are low, the incorporation of the carbon skeletons from amino acids into the citric acid cycle is important for maintaining the concentrations of the intermediates, and therefore a high rate of mitochondrial respiration. Thus, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame. As discussed by Robergs and Roberts [Invalid Link Removed], amino acid catabolism during exercise is important for three reasons: 1) for free energy during exercise to fuel muscle contraction; 2) to increase concentrations of citric acid cycle intermediates and therefore support carbohydrate and lipid catabolism; and 3) to serve as gluconeogenic precursors. It has also been claimed that carbohydrate provides the only macronutrient substrate whose stored energy generates ATP non-aerobically. This is not the case, however, since several studies have shown that amino acid catabolism also provides a source of anaerobic energy production [Invalid Link Removed], Aspartate, for example, can be fermented to succinate or propionate [Invalid Link Removed]. Interestingly, Ivy et al. [Invalid Link Removed] and Saunders et al. [Invalid Link Removed], reported that the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement enhanced endurance performance above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone.
hence the need for BCAAs
50g is more then enough IMO to serve through a workout.
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- Fats Burn in a Carbohydrate Flame,Invalid Link Removed Right?
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It has been claimed that carbohydrates serve as a primer for fat catabolism ("fats burn in a carbohydrate flame"). However, as pointed out by Robergs and Roberts [Invalid Link Removed], this is an incorrect contention. In skeletal muscle, fat certainly does not burn in a carbohydrate flame, as skeletal muscle does not have sufficient quantities of the enzymes to convert glycolytic intermediates into molecules that can be transported into the mitochondria to supplement citric acid cycle intermediates. Further, the production of acetoacyl CoA, a substrate of ketone body formation, can occur only in the liver and thus does not apply to skeletal muscle metabolism. Human skeletal muscle can oxidize at least seven amino acids: leucine, isoleucine, valine, glutamate, asparagine, aspartate and alanine. Of these amino acids, however, oxidation of only the branched chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine) appears to be increased during catabolic states such as exercise.
When muscle glycogen and blood glucose concentrations are low, the incorporation of the carbon skeletons from amino acids into the citric acid cycle is important for maintaining the concentrations of the intermediates, and therefore a high rate of mitochondrial respiration. Thus, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame. As discussed by Robergs and Roberts [Invalid Link Removed], amino acid catabolism during exercise is important for three reasons: 1) for free energy during exercise to fuel muscle contraction; 2) to increase concentrations of citric acid cycle intermediates and therefore support carbohydrate and lipid catabolism; and 3) to serve as gluconeogenic precursors. It has also been claimed that carbohydrate provides the only macronutrient substrate whose stored energy generates ATP non-aerobically. This is not the case, however, since several studies have shown that amino acid catabolism also provides a source of anaerobic energy production [Invalid Link Removed], Aspartate, for example, can be fermented to succinate or propionate [Invalid Link Removed]. Interestingly, Ivy et al. [Invalid Link Removed] and Saunders et al. [Invalid Link Removed], reported that the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement enhanced endurance performance above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone.
hence the need for BCAAs
ssbackwards
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
AustrianOakJr
Member
Definitely not arguing the advantage of ingesting BCAA's pre-intra workout. Pre-form BCAA's are one of my staples. I was simply asserting that carbs (along with the protein) ingested pre workout spare excessive aminos (broken down skeletal muscle) from being burned. But, yes a certain amount of amino acid metabolism is going to occur during training.....hence the reason for supplementation.
CJ_Xfit89
Board Sponsor
jump on the LeanGains wagon man
MuscleGauge1
Board Sponsor
As long as your getting the proper amount of rest. The time you train doesn't really matter much. It is suggested to train earlier due to the natural levels of your hormones peaking at that time, but a good pre-workout supp would help you a lot.
Jag
Active member
Assuming that your training is not the only thing you have going on in your life, just train whenever is the most convenient time for you.
I'm definitley stronger in the mid afternoon, after work, but it's just not convenient for me because of family commitments etc. So i train fasted in the a.m. before work. I'm actually used to it now and it's like my own private home gym. There's not many who can train intensely at that hour!!!
I use BCAA's pre w/o and coffee, of course, and Citrulline Malate / Beta Alanine in water during the workout. Two supps i'm experimenting, not recommending, with now are Acetyl-l-Carnitine and Choline Bitarate. The focus and alertness i get is just what i need at that hour.
I don't think this is a poll for "The Best Time To Train" so if YOU feel good training at that hour then it's then it's the right time and as long as your nutrition is up to scratch then you WILL NOT be limiting your gains.
Great topic for discussion though.
I'm definitley stronger in the mid afternoon, after work, but it's just not convenient for me because of family commitments etc. So i train fasted in the a.m. before work. I'm actually used to it now and it's like my own private home gym. There's not many who can train intensely at that hour!!!
I use BCAA's pre w/o and coffee, of course, and Citrulline Malate / Beta Alanine in water during the workout. Two supps i'm experimenting, not recommending, with now are Acetyl-l-Carnitine and Choline Bitarate. The focus and alertness i get is just what i need at that hour.
I don't think this is a poll for "The Best Time To Train" so if YOU feel good training at that hour then it's then it's the right time and as long as your nutrition is up to scratch then you WILL NOT be limiting your gains.
Great topic for discussion though.
Jag
Active member
No specific reason really. I used to have all the powders pre workout which was a lot all at once and i did get a little queazy sometimes being first thing in the morning and empty stomach and all. So i just added it to 400-500ml of water and sipped it during the workout like a drip feed.
It didn't lose any effectiveness so i kept doing it. I try and finish it by the halfway point of the workout though so if you try it just add it to the amount of water you would drink to that point.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
You've reiterated the "Am I limiting gains?" question multiple times throughout this thread. NO, you are NOT limiting your gains by training fasted on an empty stomach - KEY POINT: So long as your nutrition throughout the day post-training is OPTIMAL for GAINS!
I have trained fasted and unfasted (more when I was cycling and if circumstances prevent first thing training), and are definitely one of those individuals for whom fasted training is a preference (not for progress purposes, but because of how I feel). Honestly, there is NO difference in my training performance re strength, power, endurance, etc. training fasted than unfasted, and training fasted has NEVER prevented me from making gains if I want them.
In the end, it comes down to personal preference, and making sure that your NUTRITION AND TRAINING are set up for gains (if that is what you want).
~Rosie~
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Happy New Year!
MuscleGauge1
Board Sponsor
I agree man, BCAAs in your situation would probably be the way to go. No limit to gains there bro. Just supplement your way through it
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
Me personally, I hate waking up early.
I tend to lift around 9pm, give or take a few hours because I usually have food in me and when I get done I can rest/sleep.
It wouldn't be good for me to wake up, lift then go to work and then finally come home to sleep...
Just my 02 cents...
I tend to lift around 9pm, give or take a few hours because I usually have food in me and when I get done I can rest/sleep.
It wouldn't be good for me to wake up, lift then go to work and then finally come home to sleep...
Just my 02 cents...
th3futur3
Active member
I work night shift and train about the same time when you get back. The thing that I love about training fasted is whatever I ingest...it hits me double time. I love 10 grams scivation xtend/1 scoop maximize v2/2 scoops Hemavol about 30 minutes before the workout and 10 grams of bcaas during. Crazy pumps, great clean INTENSE energy. If you had a witness watching you fly through the workout they would have never guessed you were fasted during that session lol!!!!
mattrag
Legend
runner_79 said:
Craze that good eh? I bought a bottle. Gonna give it a test run soon. Fasted is better you say? Have you tried it after a meal?
On topic: I have tried both fasted and non fasted training. I feel lighter and more focused on lifting fasted. Though if the workout is like late afternoon fasting that long is horrible for me. A happy medium from rising and then lifting and long fasts is about 2-3 hours after I wake up I train. Wake up, down bcaas, mentally prep for lifting. Then about an hour before lifting start sipping my pre workout. Hit the gym the. Lift.
Works the best for me. Tried eating first and it just makes me feel bloated.