Ecdysterone? Anyone heard of this?

[Mixelflick]

The most effective bulks rotate in 2 weeks of dieting. Nothing severe of course, just enough to potentiate the over-feeding that'll follow. Plus, bulks are generally carried on too long IMO.

At some point the enzymes that store fat begin to dominate and at that point, you can't over-eat a inch on your arms. You can eat another inch on your waist tho. Unfortunately, I made that mistake in years past. This was when "weight gainers" were in fashion. The late 80's/early 90's... ;-)

 

[megadeth]

Thanks so much brother,

MPS can be used on a bulk for the enhanced recovery, but it really shines on a cut/re-comp.

I'm gonna do a cut/recomp w/ Myosynergy/MPS/ARA/BRITE and the soon to be released BMP whenever I can get off the road. Can't wait!

 

[ma70]

The most effective bulks rotate in 2 weeks of dieting. Nothing severe of course, just enough to potentiate the over-feeding that'll follow. Plus, bulks are generally carried on too long IMO.

At some point the enzymes that store fat begin to dominate and at that point, you can't over-eat a inch on your arms. You can eat another inch on your waist tho. Unfortunately, I made that mistake in years past. This was when "weight gainers" were in fashion. The late 80's/early 90's... ;-)

Yeah my bulks usually last 4-8 weeks....but I'm thinking of limiting to a month's tops so my insulin sensitivity doesn't tank too.

 

[ELROCK]

I'm gonna do a cut/recomp w/ Myosynergy/MPS/ARA/BRITE and the soon to be released BMP whenever I can get off the road. Can't wait!

Thats going to be one hell of a ride!

 

[koi1214]

What is BMP?

 

[ELROCK]

What is BMP?

Check the thread on the Evomuse company sub section. It sounds like it will stack nice w/ Myosynergy or ecdy.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

What is BMP?

Bone Morphogenetic Protein pretty cool stuff involving satellite cells directly responsible for muscle growth. Not an actual protein supplement but most likely an inhibitor

 

[koi1214]

Bone Morphogenetic Protein pretty cool stuff involving satellite cells directly responsible for muscle growth. Not an actual protein supplement but most likely an inhibitor

Thanks man and I saw it on their sub forum. Definitely an interesting product.

 

[braskibra]

I'm gonna do a cut/recomp w/ Myosynergy/MPS/ARA/BRITE and the soon to be released BMP whenever I can get off the road. Can't wait!

link me to it

Hey mixel how much is a bottle of MPS, I looked on your site but kept having to click on cart or something

 

[ma70]

link me to it

Hey mixel how much is a bottle of MPS, I looked on your site but kept having to click on cart or something

~73 bucks

 

[patrick25]

~73 bucks

What is the website?

 

[koi1214]

What is the website?

Google Mass Pro Synthagen

 

[braskibra]

~73 bucks

hmm, 1month supply?

 

[megadeth]

hmm, 1month supply?

Once dialed in, yes it very well can be. Keep in mind though, MPS can replace many of the supps that you might already taking.

 

[ma70]

I have nothing to do with MPS/Mixelflick, but I might as well try to post up some of the research and stuff I've done. Here's what you get for the ~73 bucks from MPS:

Betaine
Beta Alanine
Orotic Acid
Taurine
Ecdy
EAA's
PeakATP
Magnesium Asparate

All in a proprietary blend, assuming everything is dosed adequately. It has 270 caps in it, and initially, you are supposed to do a 5/5/5 split around workout (pre, intra, post) or 15 caps total, but dial it down to 4/4/4 (12 caps) and then 3/3/3 (9 caps) if you're lucky, and do 3/3/3 (9 caps) on off-days. So how long it will last is completely up to you and your workout schedule. If you workout every single day, dosing at maximum, a bottle will last 18 days. You don't have to dose maximum though (and it seems like it's encouraged to try to find the best minimum dose for you by dialing it down) and I'm highly sure no one trains 7 days a week.

 

[IFNutrition]

I think ecdysterone is a very interesting natural compound. There is room for a huge increase in effect with proper use. I think this compound will be making a comeback. I have personally used a few times in my life and everytime I used it in high doses and had great results.

 

[Mixelflick]

~73 bucks

The twin pack is the much better deal. You'll get it at a discount and with free shipping in the continental US. You can also load the first bottle (everyday use), and 2nd bottle dose on training days only. Either way, I look forward to feedback from those using Synthagen, IForce Ecdy etc.

Helps all of us that are interested, learn more.

 

[Mixelflick]

I think ecdysterone is a very interesting natural compound. There is room for a huge increase in effect with proper use. I think this compound will be making a comeback. I have personally used a few times in my life and everytime I used it in high doses and had great results.

Terrific.

May I ask what product you were using, dose and effects you noticed?

WITH RESPECT TO MPS DOSING: Most people find a bottle lasts a month. I don't encourage people to train every day (weights anyway), as the body needs rest to supercompensate and grow larger/stronger.

It's not the notes that make the music, but the spaces in between..

 

[Jiigzz]

Now that we've established Tryptophan isn't just necessary, but may play a rate limiting role in protein synthesis - question for all the guys using them:

Does your product contain all 9?

histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine.

Ill let mr.cooper69 defend the exclusion of l-tryptophan in the Amino IV formula.

Protein synthesis is mediated by mTOR however all amino acids are required to build a protein; the purpose of an EAA blend is not to be a replacement for protein

 

[ttortman78]

Terrific. May I ask what product you were using, dose and effects you noticed? WITH RESPECT TO MPS DOSING: Most people find a bottle lasts a month. I don't encourage people to train every day (weights anyway), as the body needs rest to supercompensate and grow larger/stronger. It's not the notes that make the music, but the spaces in between..

Man. Love your posts. So full of knowledge and helpful. "It's not the notes that make the music, but the spaces in between". Without a doubt. A wise man can explain the multitude of physical manifestations endlessly through metaphor because he understands the underlying energetic currents that pulse through them. Keep doing your thing man.

 

[ma70]

Just ordered a twin pack of Mass Pro Synthagen. This guy seems legit and does hard work. I'll be logging it in December.

 

[ELROCK]

Just ordered a twin pack of Mass Pro Synthagen. This guy seems legit and does hard work. I'll be logging it in December.

Keep us posted in this thread if you could bro.

 

[ma70]

Keep us posted in this thread if you could bro.

I plan on it. Keep in mind...December is a long ways to go. I may start earlier if I decide that I want to skip the winter bulking completely.

 

[ELROCK]

I plan on it. Keep in mind...December is a long ways to go. I may start earlier if I decide that I want to skip the winter bulking completely.

Cool, I guess I missed that December part.

I will be starting iforce ecdy pretty soon so I will keep you posted on results.

 

[ma70]

Cool, I guess I missed that December part.

I will be starting iforce ecdy pretty soon so I will keep you posted on results.

Nice. Are you gonna follow Mixelflick's protocol? (50mg pre 50 mg post with EAA's Pre and Whey Post)

 

[ELROCK]

Nice. Are you gonna follow Mixelflick's protocol? (50mg pre 50 mg post with EAA's Pre and Whey Post)

Yes sir!

 

[IFNutrition]

Last time I ran Ecdy I ran it at 500mgs 2-3 times a day. At this dose I had great results. Unfortunately I am not sure of the purity of the product I ran at the time and it has been years. The product is not longer manufactured and the company is no longer around to my knowledge. It was a Sci-Fit product.

 

[IFNutrition]

That was it! ^ So it was 300mg 3-5 times a day

 

[AndroRage]

Thanks man. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, I enjoy helping members out - regardless of who's product they use.

Hi mike, do you mind if I fire a few questions for your regarding supplementation?

Many thanks

 

[Mixelflick]

Hi mike, do you mind if I fire a few questions for your regarding supplementation?

Many thanks

Sure man, I'll PM you my contact information..

 

[Mixelflick]

Whenever you see 300+mgs of Ecdy, pretty safe bet they're using an inferior source genus for starting material.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

sci-fit, really? lol
where oh where have they gone?

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm281017.htm

 

[Mixelflick]

sci-fit, really? lol
where oh where have they gone?

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm281017.htm

Oh my...

I guess they had this coming. I dunno about their other products, but their herbal extracts let a LOT to be desired. This Ecdy product soured a lot (too many) people on it, looks like karma finally caught up with them...

 

[NewAgeMayan]

is anyone currently taking iforce ecdy?

 

[kissdadookie]

is anyone currently taking iforce ecdy?

I took the Humanabol product form iForce for like 3-4 months straight or something, I bought and used it mainly for the Humanofort but it's basically Humanofort + iForce ecdy. Can't say I've noticed much if anything from the ecdy but I like good ole Humanofort, gave me really good sleep, every day I was quite refreshed and good energy levels along with mood (probably due to the great sleep I had using it).

 

[braskibra]

Pardon my ignorance but why does which herbal component they extract from make a difference, isn't the end product the same beta ecdysterone, what makes the extraction from rhap superior to other sources aside from "purity"

 

[Grayson]

Out of curiosity, for a 50:1 RCE, what would a good dosage be?

 

[ELROCK]

I took the Humanabol product form iForce for like 3-4 months straight or something, I bought and used it mainly for the Humanofort but it's basically Humanofort + iForce ecdy. Can't say I've noticed much if anything from the ecdy but I like good ole Humanofort, gave me really good sleep, every day I was quite refreshed and good energy levels along with mood (probably due to the great sleep I had using it).

I havent heard of Humanobol until this. I just looked it up. It looks like a solid product dosed if dosed at 3 caps per day, but that only leaves a 20 day supply. Still not terrible for the price.

 

[badsnatch]

For what it's worth Klokov has said Ecdysten was always in high demand at the russian training camps.

 

[kissdadookie]

I'm

I havent heard of Humanobol until this. I just looked it up. It looks like a solid product dosed if dosed at 3 caps per day, but that only leaves a 20 day supply. Still not terrible for the price.

I did 2 caps in the morning and then 1 cap + Animal PM at night. That gets me to around 400 mg's of Humanofort per day.

 

[ELROCK]

I'm

I did 2 caps in the morning and then 1 cap + Animal PM at night. That gets me to around 400 mg's of Humanofort per day.

That sounds good. The reason I mentioned it should be dosed at least 3 caps per day is to hit at least 75 mg of ecdy and at least 300 mg of Humanofort. The only problem I see is ecdy needs to be taken pre & post workout and Humanofort should be dosed in the morning and pre bed.

 

[megadeth]

Synthagen is a few years old. It's a very solid recovery supplement. The formulator, Rob, is a great guy.

This^^^^^^

Glad to see Rob getting some respect here. He is the real deal and more than deserves it.

 

[Mixelflick]

I appreciate those of you willing to give Synthagen a shot, and really look forward to your feedback. Whether it's Iforce Ecdy, Synthagen or another product containing such, I'll be here to help. Have used, benefited and believed in this compound for 20 years. It's just a damn shame the bad name it got early on, by companies using inferior extracts and/or marketing it like a drug..

Also, if anyone's using German Loading Pattern #1 (I know I gave more than a few away), please post your results here.

Many thanks..

 

[alvin1]

He mixelflic,
what do you think about alri pro anabol edycsterone product?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I have recently become interested in ecdy supplements after reading about them on examine.com. I discussed it with a few people on another forum, and I was informed that you are the expert in regards to this subject. I did some research on my own, and it seems to confirm what you've said. I contacted a few bulk suppliers of rhaponticum Carthamoides extract, and it's very expenisve for a high quality extract; the minimum order price was 4 figures. I noticed that a lot of research was done using 5mg/kg in rats. I also noticed that you mentioned a study finding that a 200lb person would need a minimum of 73mg. I have not been able to find the text for that study, but I did learn that a general rule of thumb for converting a dose for rats to a dose for humans is to multiply by 0.16, which would give 0.8mg/kg for a person, or 73mg (rounded to the nearest whole number) for a 200lb person, which matches what you said to the number. Is that where this number is coming from, or is there an actual human study that used this dose. I just ordered a bottle of iForce ECDY, and I plan on dosing it the way you said to; 50mg pre and 50mg post with whey. Now, my question is if it's necessary to take the pre-workout dose with EAAs, or could it just be taken with a complete source of protein, or does the pre-workout serving need to be taken immediately before training?

Are there any other suggestions you would have to maximize the results I can get from ecdy supplementation? Of course, a high protein intake is needed it seems, and I'm getting a minimum of 1.5g/lb bodyweight per day now, would it be recommended to increase this or is it not necessary?

 

[ma70]

Mixelflick

What would you suggest for a twice a day training protocol? Meaning in the morning/AM, heavy compound lifts and then 6-8 hours later, isolation/volume work. I tried PMing you, but your PM box is full.

 

[Mixelflick]

He mixelflic,
what do you think about alri pro anabol edycsterone product?

Commented about it in another thread. Please do a search on my username, I'm sure you'll find it .

I'd link you but getting ready to hop the train to Gainsville (the gym) )

 

[Mixelflick]

Mixelflick

What would you suggest for a twice a day training protocol? Meaning in the morning/AM, heavy compound lifts and then 6-8 hours later, isolation/volume work. I tried PMing you, but your PM box is full.

Thanks man, will clear it.

First, I envy you and your recovery ability. I like the heavy compound lifts in the morning, but would suggest keeping this session to 45min, no more. You'll also want to vary your reps every 2-3 weeks, as of all the variables involved it's reps the body adapts to the quickest.

The PM session I want you to STRONGLY consider body weight training, and in particular Convict Conditioning. The is NOT high rep jumping jacks, LOL. Hardcore stuff. This is just me, but I consider (with few exceptions) isolation exercises to be a waste. So why BW work at night?

- Will develop the tendons, ligaments, bursa, fascia etc as well as the muscles
- Does so with minimal CNS stimulation. With weights (even in isolation exercises, it can be problematic prior to sleep
- These sessions are fast, hit hard and deliver RESULTS like you can only imagine. Inside a year, I was doing 1arm pushups - holding a 50lb DB behind my back
- Can be done anyway, no trip to the gym necessary

Finally, there has never been a training system more in harmony with the principles of independence and economy, than bodyweight training. Got gots and gravity?

You're in business....

PS - I can expand more in PM's.

 

[Mixelflick]

He mixelflic,
what do you think about alri pro anabol edycsterone product?

Tough call in a multi-ingredient product, but here are my thoughts on the Ecdy component.

It's true rubrosterone lacks the classic "tail", associated with the 476 Ecdy's thus identified (1) Please see Rubrosterone vs. Turkesterone chemical graphic below. Rather stark when you see it for the first time. Rubrosterone is nothing new though, first being identified in 1968(2). Japanese researchers have studied it, and found 7-keto DHEA 60% as anabolic.(3) I'm a bit confused as to the focus on the androgen receptor, as previous studies (done both in the West and Russia) have found no AR binding. A study (4) performed just this year validated its anabolic properties, called for it being put on the banned list but the study headline was what grabbed all the attention..

Estrogen receptor beta is involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy induced by the phytoecdysteroid ecdysterone

1. Ecdybase does not support Netscape 4
2. Ecdybase does not support Netscape 4
3. Chem. Pharm. Bull, 1968 Vol. 16, pp 2426-2429
4. Estrogen receptor beta is involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy induced by the phytoecdysteroid ecdysterone - Parr - 2014 - Molecular Nutrition & Food Research - Wiley Online Library

For the record, I think its interaction with the estrogen receptor doesn't explain its pro-hypertrophic effects. Rather, a combination of mechanisms is responsible. Given the broad range of benefits Ecdy conveys in mammals, there must be at least 1 cascade mechanism in play. When I wrote The Blueprint in 2009, I theorized that Ecdysterone worked via the PI3K/AKT pathway. Subsequent research carried out at Rutgers has confirmed this (5).

Abstract

"Phytoecdysteroids, structurally similar to insect molting hormones, produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis. In this study we show that in a mouse skeletal muscle cell line, C(2)C(12), 20-hydroxyecdysone (20HE), a common phytoecdysteroid.... elicited a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis. The effect was inhibited by a G-protein coupled receptor (GPCR) inhibitor, a phospholipase C (PLC) inhibitor, and a phosphoinositide kinase-3 (PI3K) inhibitor."

(5) Steroids. 2010 Oct;75(10):632-7. Epub 2010 Apr 2.Ecdysteroids elicit a rapid Ca2+ flux leading to Akt activation and increased protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.Gorelick-Feldman J, Cohick W, Raskin I. Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901, USA.

DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion, and I have NOT used the product yet. I don't speak definitively, to things I haven't used. So I'll keep an open mind, as to ALRI's product...

 

[Mixelflick]

I have recently become interested in ecdy supplements after reading about them on examine.com. I discussed it with a few people on another forum, and I was informed that you are the expert in regards to this subject. I did some research on my own, and it seems to confirm what you've said. I contacted a few bulk suppliers of rhaponticum Carthamoides extract, and it's very expenisve for a high quality extract; the minimum order price was 4 figures. I noticed that a lot of research was done using 5mg/kg in rats. I also noticed that you mentioned a study finding that a 200lb person would need a minimum of 73mg. I have not been able to find the text for that study, but I did learn that a general rule of thumb for converting a dose for rats to a dose for humans is to multiply by 0.16, which would give 0.8mg/kg for a person, or 73mg (rounded to the nearest whole number) for a 200lb person, which matches what you said to the number. Is that where this number is coming from, or is there an actual human study that used this dose. I just ordered a bottle of iForce ECDY, and I plan on dosing it the way you said to; 50mg pre and 50mg post with whey. Now, my question is if it's necessary to take the pre-workout dose with EAAs, or could it just be taken with a complete source of protein, or does the pre-workout serving need to be taken immediately before training?

Are there any other suggestions you would have to maximize the results I can get from ecdy supplementation? Of course, a high protein intake is needed it seems, and I'm getting a minimum of 1.5g/lb bodyweight per day now, would it be recommended to increase this or is it not necessary?

Have to run but here are my short answers (for once):

1.) There are no human studies I'm aware of, using the cited 5mg/kd. Still, that formula is a well established rat to human conversion. Works in the real world too IF you get a quality extract.

2.I think taking Ecdy with EAA's is an absolute must, for reasons I'll get into later. Complete protein won't work because although considered a fast protein, it takes the body 60-90 minutes to break whey down into its constituent amino acids.

3.It's ideal to co-ingest both shortly before the workout (say 10-15 min) IMO

I have LOTS more to say on maximizing Ecdy. Nutrient wise, if you study Synthagen's lable there are clues. The upping your protein thing, I'm not convinced you need to, timing for example is more important. How much more do I have to say about it?

Wrote 4 books on it (The Blueprint). 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and The BP Meteoric. Sorry I didn't have more time to respond hear. Feel free to PM me, as I just cleared my in-box...



2.)