Markusrulezzz
Banned
I know carbs make you fat especially the simple cars but I also know it's good to take carbs after workout, but does it matter which carbs to take without getting fat ? and how many grams ?
Complex carbs supps vs simple carbs after workout ?
- Thread starter Markusrulezzz
- Start date
Markusrulezzz
Banned
someone told me to take gatorade after workout, isnt that all sugar and crap ?
ambulldog
Well-known member
as a blanket statement you are incorrect stating carbs make you fat. look at rosie is she fat? no way. and ive seen her talk about how much she eats.
as for your other question many will answer differently. i personally have a mix of carbs post wo like oatmeal, banana, h20, and whey all blended. i know a guy from my gym and hid post wo is 16oz milk with a couple spoons of honey
as for your other question many will answer differently. i personally have a mix of carbs post wo like oatmeal, banana, h20, and whey all blended. i know a guy from my gym and hid post wo is 16oz milk with a couple spoons of honey
MidwestBeast
Legend
This is SO incredibly wrong, as ambulldog already pointed out.
Carbs, just like any excess calories, can lead to fat gain (though arguably carbs may be able to do it a bit easier; particularly excess sugars). That's a whole other Nutrition 101 lesson that I don't want to get into here.
As far as what you take post-workout, as with virtually every other thing: it all depends on YOUR current goals.
If you're looking to cut, opt for whey isolate post-workout and an hour and a half later or so, take in some healthy complex carbs and protein from whole food. This will keep natural GH from being blunted and allow for for fat-loss.
If you're looking to gain, add in some carbs with your post-shake. I like to grind oats and use those in there. You can also add in some fruit for healthy simple sugars.
All in all, there are WAY too many variables to give ONE answer to this question. It depends on your body, how it acts/responds, and what your goals are.
*There will never be ONE right answer to this question, no matter how many different times it is asked. I've asked it myself when I was starting out and I've learned this.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Wow - someone needs to be EDUCATED! Carbohydrates do NOT make you fat! I get so sick of people spouting nonsense about carbohydrates being the cause of their fat and inability to lose it. Overeating and not exercising makes you fat - don't put the blame onto something else if one cannot be disciplined and take responsibility for their own body!
Whether you use carbohydrates post-workout is going to differ depending on the individual. There are several trains of thought, including no carbohydrates post-training, to maximize Growth Hormone impulses. However, I have always said (and this comes from being an athlete and actually caring about athletic performance) is to have ~50g of carbohydrates post-training. Simple carbohydrates are the best because they get into the bloodstream faster, but I actually prefer a mix of simple and complex carbohydrates. If you're going to use only simple carbohydrates immediately post-training, then have a decent meal ~30 minutes after that containing complex carbohydrates.
In the end, what you do should be specific for YOU, and the best option for YOU!
You can use Gatorade if you want. If you want to use sugar, just use straight dextrose.
~Rosie~
Markusrulezzz
Banned
Ok thank yall !
rms80
Board Sponsor
I usually take in 30 grams of whey protein and 50 grams of simple sugars (grape juice) directly after my workout, and then have a protein/complex carb meal (30 grams protein/100 grams complex carbs) about 1-1.5 hrs. afterward. You don't have to worry about fat accumulation in the post-wo anabolic window, because your body uses this period of time to re-synthesize glycogen and replenish amino acid stores in skeletal muscle.......
Wheyfocused
Member
Seems that the fast carb after workouts (edit) info is based off older knowledge. It is my understanding that the recent info based on studies out by Aragon is suggesting that complex carbs are still superior nutrition regardless on whether they are directly postworkout or not.
Sure simple sugars can be incorporated if they fit your macros, but the speed with which they are assimilated seems to be irrelevant, so using that as a reason to use simple sugars is outdated.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Like I said, I prefer a mix of simple and complex carbohydrates post-training.
Re sports, you'll find the simple post-training very much still practiced.
Also like I said, you have to find what works right for YOU as an individual - never mind what is conventional or supposed to be the best.
~Rosie~
Wheyfocused
Member
I agree you will find it still practiced. But there is enough broscience going around to practice many things that may not be the most beneficial (such as fasted cardio).
I think following the trend of legit scientific studies should be the basis for any nutrition and supplementation protocol
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
There is always going to be broscience and anecdotal evidence.
That, but also personal experience, finding what works best for the specific individual in question. Individual differences must always be taken into account and what may be "beneficial" for one individual is not always going to be beneficial for another, regardless even of the "scientific evidence" for it. There are always going to be the anomalies to everything as well - trust me when I say I know that from experience!
Fasted cardio for fat loss is not better than non-fasted, I know, but some people prefer to train fasted - I know I do (I don't like having food in my stomach when training, even though when I was cycling I would chuck back several thousand calories and then go out training immediately afterwards), and I personally don't notice a difference in performance re fasted or non-fasted training.
~Rosie~
Wheyfocused
Member
I fully support your right to do what you feel works best for you. But you stated earlier that simple carbs are the best for postworkout, I do not want those coming into the thread to take that as a hard truth.
The most recent scientific evidence suggests it is not the best. I also feel that when asked a question people should be given the full scope of information. And I am relating such to the poster who asked the question in the first place.
Markusrulezzz
Banned
Now im confused, somone says complex carbs, someone else says simple, the rosie girl says whatever that works for you, o really ? loool
IS THERE Anyyyyyyyy research that gives only ONE ANSWER ?
IS THERE Anyyyyyyyy research that gives only ONE ANSWER ?
Wheyfocused
Member
If you are looking to add postworkout carbs use oats instead of fast carbs.
Fast sugars are ok if they fit into your macros but are not optimal according to the most current scientific studies
Markusrulezzz
Banned
Thank YOU SIR ! That's what Im looking for, scientific researches
SweetLou321
Well-known member
It doesnt matter, hit your macros and get over pre/post blah blah blah bs. If you wanna get super anal go with complex per aragons research as stated earlier
MidwestBeast
Legend
Wheyfocused
Member
NP, pm me if you have any other questions
murk01
Well-known member
rms80 said:
first markusrules ask a great question. its something I was always unsure about.
-i always go complex all day. and try to stay away from sugars and starchs.
but heres the thing as quoted above. does that shot of sugar after a,work out really help?? I do mix honey or bp into my shakes from time to time. but should this be part of the post rutine? u do hear ppl talking about the insuline boost.
basicly, I have the same question..
th3futur3
Active member
Favorite post workout meal...
80 grams oatmeal
2 scoops Vanilla Cupcake Batter Protean
microwave it into a pie...
THEN spread two tablespoons natty pb on top with 3 splendas...mmmmmm so good. Body heats up CRAZY too! Digests so nicely with Hemavol running through my veins!
80 grams oatmeal
2 scoops Vanilla Cupcake Batter Protean
microwave it into a pie...
THEN spread two tablespoons natty pb on top with 3 splendas...mmmmmm so good. Body heats up CRAZY too! Digests so nicely with Hemavol running through my veins!
hvactech
Legend
this topic has been covered a zillion times, heres my 2 pennies....low gi vs high gi makes zero difference, carbs and protein or protein alone makes zero difference...i personally drink bcaa's/eaa's after my workout and then eat roughly 4 hours later, been doing this for awhile and still make gains....i do sometimes have a high calorie shake with carbs and pro if im hungry after my workout but not because of the "pwo anabolic window"
hvactech
Legend
this ^^^^^^^^ end thread.....
asooneyeonig
Well-known member
you may want to update with research that has been done over the last 150 years. a simple way to find thousands of peer reviewed research journals proving you wrong is look at the books by gary taubes: good calories, bad calories & why we get fat.
here is a video link on that subject:
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this is how the body metabolizes food. you eat food, some of that food gets converted to blood sugar. an increase in blood sugar to high causes a release of insulin. insulin converts that excessive blood sugar to an increase in adipose tissue.
and the food that increases blood sugar the fastest is carbs. especially refined carbs. therefore, carbs make you fat.
and the common argument that protein and lipid intake can make you fat, they both are used for other things besides blood sugar in the body. and even when they are used as such they take many times longer to digest therefore the effect on the increase in blood sugar is minimized making them less likely to make you fat.
if you have other proof please provide such. i would love to actually find out more information on this. so far the science i find shows that lipid intake does little to increase adipose tissue nor does it do little to effect cholesterol or triglyceride levels.
Craigmatthew
Well-known member
Some what agree with the above and I have change my thinking since years ago when I began. I try rely on complex carbs no matter what time of the day even pre and post training.
Go Away
Member
Sweet Frog fat free frozen yogurt to chase my whey/creatine/glutamine shake post workout.
Pure sugar to spike insulin and make muscles spongy - soak up that goodness. An hour later, low fat champions meal of chicken, veggie and a complex carb.
Don't get it twisted, there's a ton of healthy fats throughout the day as well. I'm losing weight but not with a low carb diet.
Pure sugar to spike insulin and make muscles spongy - soak up that goodness. An hour later, low fat champions meal of chicken, veggie and a complex carb.
Don't get it twisted, there's a ton of healthy fats throughout the day as well. I'm losing weight but not with a low carb diet.
mr.cooper69
Legend
There are so many laughable posts in this thread. Anyone with a nutrition degree or a shred of unbiased, scientific data willing to post?
You will get fat if you eat too much in the postworkout window. You are likely not glycogen depleted and glycogen resynthesis is not a "primary" concern.
There is nothing inherently wrong with carbs for body composition. They are nonessential, yes, but they have plenty of benefits (and a few downsides as far as longevity is concerned).
A balanced diet has been the key since the beginning of humanity and it will continue to be. Moderation is everything. Stop jumping on the latest dieting fad without doing your own research.
You will get fat if you eat too much in the postworkout window. You are likely not glycogen depleted and glycogen resynthesis is not a "primary" concern.
There is nothing inherently wrong with carbs for body composition. They are nonessential, yes, but they have plenty of benefits (and a few downsides as far as longevity is concerned).
A balanced diet has been the key since the beginning of humanity and it will continue to be. Moderation is everything. Stop jumping on the latest dieting fad without doing your own research.
asooneyeonig
Well-known member
my only concern with this is what is balanced. people always seem to go right to balance but when i have asked what is balanced i will get 15 different answers from 10 different people. and yes that was not a typo. i said 15 from 10.
when i was a certified nutritionist i was taught to believe that 60C/20F/20P was balanced. for years i wondered why some diets worked for others and not for some. how some people could seemingly eat less and others not. it was like if you just looked at individual foods or just what was passed off as science for one diet it all seemed to make sense. but if you tried to combine it all it just fell apart. in that the science contradicted other supposed science. what was good in one diet was bad in another. then you add in that one person tried one and it worked yet failed another diet. then another person failed on the previous first one and got results on the second. i would then hear the common, well we are all different.
i strongly believe that we are not different. we all have the same anatomy, therefore the physiology, or mechanisms, are the same. if we are different then why is there only 1 anatomy and 1 physiology that people study and learn from. it just didnt connect. it reminds me of the issues with physics. we have all these theories on parts of physics, but no grand unified theory to connect them all. it just falls apart on that scale.
it was well over a decade when someone pointed me to gary taubes book, good calories bad calories. for the first time it seemed i found something that connected everything. and if people want science, the bibliography for that book is bigger then many diet books i have read. and the research goes back for 150 years. way longer then i ever thought it would. it really made me think how one could miss something this big. now i had read atkins books and read up on the inuit diet but things still didnt quite click with me yet. not till that book came along.
after that i spent a few years trying to find more information and research on diet. i focused on fat being bad and carbs being bad. i found that the fat being bad was a lot of bad science if the research tried to say it was bad. it was rather biased, incorrect patterning, or seemingly just left out information. but i did have a hard time finding info that carbs were bad as well. i would find articles by some doctors, but not much research.
so i broke it down a different way. i looked at the mechanisms of metabolism and digestion. i did not pay attention to a line of thinking of diet foods but the mechanisms in the body. i found that what mr taubes wrote about made even more sense. i do credit him mainly due to him being the first person that wrote it in a way that made sense, not that he did any of the studies himself.
i began to look at the macronutrients this way:
-protein - used to build/repair the body
-lipids/fats - used for fatty acids and building blocks of the nervous system and other parts, as well as long term energy needs
-carbs - good for immediate short term energy needs. and i mean like less then an hour need.
by looking at it that way i found that if i were to need 60% of my calories from carbs, and at an average intake of 3,500 a day i would need 2,100 calories for immediate energy needs. now if i sleep 7 hours a night that leaves me with 17 hours of immediate energy needs that may be best fueled by carbs. that would mean i could be burning 123 calories an hour for 17 hours straight to burn off those calories.
now this link:
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show approximate calorie expenditures for an hour. if i took in 123 calories an hour and i worked my job for 8 hours, IT or sitting at a desk, i would burn about 400 calories. in 8 hours i would take in 664 calories. well crap! i may gain a pound of fat a week at work.
i would have to burn 196 calories an hour for the next 9 hours to not get fat that day. according to that link i could do moderate calisthenics for 9 hours to burn off the extra calories. but call me selfish i like to spend time with my girlfriend, with my daughter, eating, showering, watching movies, etc. according to the traditional line of thinking, and especially following the flawed mathematical solutions it seems that balanced means im going to get fat. not cool to me.
and to further expand on the math issue, it may work if i figure in digestion times. and what i mean by that is, if i eat a 1,000 calorie meal that is mostly carbs i am likely to digest that in say 2 hours. but i may only burn 100-200 calories in that time. leaving 800 calories as excessive.
now for more math. i know that on average the body likes to maintain a blood sugar level of 72 mg/dL. and i know that 1 litre of water, used as an example weighs 2.2lbs. blood makes up about 8% of the bodys weight. so my blood may weigh around 15lbs at 195lbs of body weight. 15 lbs converts to about 70 decilitres of fluid. which translates to an average blood sugar level of 5,105 milligrams of blood sugar, or 5 grams. w
in the above example i have 800 calories to deal with. lets say they are all carbs. that makes 200grams of carbs to deal with. that much blood sugar would probably kill me. so in that time frame i had to pack away 800 calories in adipose tissue for later use. say i eat like that 2 more times in that day with another meal being half that, my 3,500 total i would be packing away 2,800 calories a day. thats a lot of fat.
and yes i know that lots of that is wrong. first i mentioned before that 60% carbs is balanced. so lets take 60% of 2,800 = 1,680. lets go with the assumption that protein and fat are not used at all for fuel. thats still 1,680 calories i need to burn off somehow. by using the previous link i could exercise to burn off that 1,680 calories. depending on the exercise chosen i could spend 2-8 hours exercising to burn those calories. that would need to be done everyday as well. that sucks ass IMO, lol. i work out about 90 minutes 3 days a week. so according to the common balance diet that i was taught to believe i would guaranteed to get fat.
here is the thing, i eat 3,500 calories or more everyday and i am shedding weight and getting stronger. so how does that make sense? according to the math above it doesnt. to make matters worse i am eating 2-3 meals a day not every hour. so i should be getting fat. but i am not. in the past this would not have made sense. now it does. i limit my carbs to less then 20% of daily calories. some days its 10%. i dont raise my blod sugar super high every meal so i dont store must as body fat. i also am not that hungry that used to be on low calorie high carb diets as i am not crashing my blood sugar after every meal. i am much more energetic with my slowly digested food.
now i know this is the science that someone has requested. when i get home i will dig up the books i have on food and diet and reference some peer reviewed research.
SinisterNix
New member
So much conjecture... Even "science" can be proven "wrong". In the end nutrition, like exercise, is highly individual and it changes often, like the seasons. Metabolic Flexibility ala Mike T. Nelson FTW. If you really want to go crazy you can get a blood test that will tell you exactly what foods you are sensitive to in terms of inflammatory response and base your diet around that. If you are in tune with your body and good at keeping track of things (daily food log), you can figure out what is good for your body. For example: if I eat steak and eggs for breakfast and then go destroy the gym, that is probably a good food choice. If I opt for the Froot Loops and am ready to plant my face in the bowl halfway through, prolly not the best choice.
hvactech
Legend
are you saying that eating beyond glycogen replenishment post workout will directly lead to fat?
DJBeanPole
Well-known member
Immediately post workout: shake.
1hr later : tasty tuna sandwich. OM NOM NOM!
1hr later : tasty tuna sandwich. OM NOM NOM!
Geoforce
Well-known member
Great post. Slowly, but surely people are starting to realize that the magic window where you have to have all these things (i.e. supplements, and the window was created by supplement companies) or else you will never have muscle is starting to go out. Do people think our ancestors had zero muscle? That they had no energy? That they didn't have an ounce of strength because after they lifted (read: did work) they didn't have access to simple carbs and whey immediately post-workout.
Thanks for bringing some science into the thread!
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
Reading this damn thread will make your head spin...
I'm not expert, every 1 is different to a certain extent... Watch the people that are making success with what they are doing. I don't think carbs make you fat, I think the wrong type of carbs processed stuff makes u fat... Garbage people saying you eat too much brown rice and yams you're going be obese... :laughing: I don't think so on that one, maybe if you eat too many fries and chips yeah.
Generally people want to keep blood sugar stable through out the day and possible spike it post work out, but honestly unless you're diabetic or eating crap the GI index of carbs don't matter (from what I was told).
Some people eat em before bed some say in the AM, eat then when ever you want, personally I if I didn't work out at night I can't honestly say if I would cut carbs early... I'll have to try that one for my self, but research and a "calorie is a calorie" seems to state that "it doesn't matter"....
What every1 should do is experiment with their own bodies for a few months and see what works if you really want to figure it out that bad.
1 thing I will tell u is complex carbs such as brown rice and yams hold more nutrition value over simple carbs as well as a longe energy chain, but either way I don't think it makes a phuckin difference weather u eat a white potato or a sweet one.
-Aaron (That's just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong.)
I'm not expert, every 1 is different to a certain extent... Watch the people that are making success with what they are doing. I don't think carbs make you fat, I think the wrong type of carbs processed stuff makes u fat... Garbage people saying you eat too much brown rice and yams you're going be obese... :laughing: I don't think so on that one, maybe if you eat too many fries and chips yeah.
Generally people want to keep blood sugar stable through out the day and possible spike it post work out, but honestly unless you're diabetic or eating crap the GI index of carbs don't matter (from what I was told).
Some people eat em before bed some say in the AM, eat then when ever you want, personally I if I didn't work out at night I can't honestly say if I would cut carbs early... I'll have to try that one for my self, but research and a "calorie is a calorie" seems to state that "it doesn't matter"....
What every1 should do is experiment with their own bodies for a few months and see what works if you really want to figure it out that bad.
1 thing I will tell u is complex carbs such as brown rice and yams hold more nutrition value over simple carbs as well as a longe energy chain, but either way I don't think it makes a phuckin difference weather u eat a white potato or a sweet one.
-Aaron (That's just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong.)
Vengeance187
Member
Okay, that's all how it relates to glycogen, now how about the research on cortisol? A higher insulin spike will blunt cortisol to a greater degree, and blunting cortisol has a corresponding decrease in muscle breakdown...
Vengeance187
Member
Still no comment?
So yes, I, Rosie, the general consensus, and the research are correct; and you are wrong...again.
Simply looking at glycogen replenishment is extremely short sighted.
Vengeance187
Member
Very poor argument. Look how skinny Native Americans were. Look how skinny current indigenous tribes are, both in South America and Africa. Our ancestors looked nothing like bodybuilders...
roblasane
Well-known member
That's precisely what I do . It's a great time for creatine also.