Clomid during cycle

Chados

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Chados

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https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/526405-those-who-need-further-proof-nolvadexs-effectiveness-hpta-recovery.html

It's my job to disprove? So whenever you claim something and I say that isn't true its your job to prove me wrong?..

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/526405-those-who-need-further-proof-nolvadexs-effectiveness-hpta-recovery.html

I think this is the study that was linked earlier BTW..

This site is weird double posts all the time
 
rtmilburn

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Never said it's your job to disprove, you said it was are to disprove you though. No what I said if you are going to make a claim with numbers, and state them like facts, it's on you to prove it with links to studies.
 
rtmilburn

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https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/526405-those-who-need-further-proof-nolvadexs-effectiveness-hpta-recovery.html

It's my job to disprove? So whenever you claim something and I say that isn't true its your job to prove me wrong?..

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/526405-those-who-need-further-proof-nolvadexs-effectiveness-hpta-recovery.html

I think this is the study that was linked earlier BTW..

This site is weird double posts all the time
And again that's not studies. That's and article, thats barely even based on studies. Did you even read it?
 
Chados

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Never said it's your job to disprove, you said it was are to disprove you though. No what I said if you are going to make a claim with numbers, and state them like facts, it's on you to prove it with links to studies.
Well forgive me then for asking how you can come and tell me I'm wrong while you leave saying you don't have time? I have yet to see a study that disprove what I'm saying and while I don't care wether people agree or not I can talk about it. People here seem to think that if we group up together we can win the argument and maybe they can but they can't change the actual fact. Now where the actual study that shows clomid being more effective for hpta?

Why do I have to post studies when all in this thread is theories? Am I not allowed to post my theories against yours?

People too busy to Google? I told you 99% of everything you'll read will say nolva - > clomid
 
Chados

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And again that's not studies. That's and article, thats barely even based on studies. Did you even read it?
That was a study posted earlier.. Seriously I don't have time for this. It doesn't really matter. You can Google clomid nolva study hpta and if you find anything to debunk what I say I'm all ears, you won't find it.
 
rtmilburn

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That was a study posted earlier.. Seriously I don't have time for this. It doesn't really matter. You can Google clomid nolva study hpta and if you find anything to debunk what I say I'm all ears, you won't find it.
Haha sure I'll put in the work. You make claims based on nothing. Even provide statistically numbers. Then run away when we ask for proof.
 
rtmilburn

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Well forgive me then for asking how you can come and tell me I'm wrong while you leave saying you don't have time? I have yet to see a study that disprove what I'm saying and while I don't care wether people agree or not I can talk about it. People here seem to think that if we group up together we can win the argument and maybe they can but they can't change the actual fact. Now where the actual study that shows clomid being more effective for hpta?

Why do I have to post studies when all in this thread is theories? Am I not allowed to post my theories against yours?

People too busy to Google? I told you 99% of everything you'll read will say nolva - > clomid
The things is you have yet to provide a study proving yourself either. 99% of all forum Bros agree clomid is stonger for htpa, hell everyone e in this thread has said that. You are the only one disagreeing. You need to back it up not us.
 
Chados

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The things is you have yet to provide a study proving yourself either. 99% of all forum Bros agree clomid is stonger for htpa, hell everyone e in this thread has said that. You are the only one disagreeing. You need to back it up not us.
Yes so now when the boys are back you are back..



I disagree and I told you earlier why and yet you didn't find it interesting to check it out yourself because I didn't convince you?

I just don't really care wether people agree or not and I certainly don't care wether people have my back on the internet.

I sometimes Google because I can forget wether I've misread or maybe my memory is wrong and then I post my answer.. I don't base it on theories from others cause i always double check..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/640052
 
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I probably should have worded my statement better. What I was getting at was from what I remember effective dose vs effective dose clomid is stronger than nolva at HTPA function. And I think it was spurfy who said torem was only 15% behind clomid. Which made the numbers that chados posted seem a little off.
Ok, that makes more sense, I just thought it was weird that a thread about Clomid is mostly about ppl saying how bad Clomid is and that everything else is better, more or less.

It feels like I’m the only one here that truly like Clomid...
 
Chados

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Ok, that makes more sense, I just thought it was weird that a thread about Clomid is mostly about ppl saying how bad Clomid is and that everything else is better, more or less.

It feels like I’m the only one here that truly like Clomid...
I use clomid gladly I just believe there are better options. I have had sides one time only from clomid and never from nolva. And studies show more sides on clomid so if I can I go for nolva..
 
rtmilburn

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Yes so now when the boys are back you are back..



I disagree and I told you earlier why and yet you didn't find it interesting to check it out yourself because I didn't convince you?

I just don't really care wether people agree or not and I certainly don't care wether people have my back on the internet.

I sometimes Google because I can forget wether I've misread or maybe my memory is wrong and then I post my answer.. I don't base it on theories from others cause i always double check..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/640052
There you go decent studies that proves your point and gives your credibility. Was that so hard.
 
Chados

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There you go decent studies that proves your point and gives your credibility. Was that so hard.
people come and question me instead of questioning a thread with 100 pages. I mean its extremely annoying reading ncbi. I would much rather see people think twice and say maybe I should look this up. This forum has become a little less informative and more let's listen to one guy and follow the hypetrain.

I'm not pissed I just don't get this show some studies when we have no studies to prove the whole point of this thread. Lastly I want to add that just because one is right doesn't mean the other is wrong so it is possible to meet in the middle even if one person is a minority.
 
THOR 70

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Ok, that makes more sense, I just thought it was weird that a thread about Clomid is mostly about ppl saying how bad Clomid is and that everything else is better, more or less.

It feels like I’m the only one here that truly like Clomid...
Clomid is great. I have labs to prove it . I just get very slight anxiety/depression/mood sides after a few weeks. So I’m gonna give torem a go. I’ll let you guys know. I may cycle them both
 
THOR 70

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I also added some stinging nettle and 10mg boron to see if I can lower shbg a touch. Just experimenting
 
SpicedCider

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RickyBlobby

Guys, here's a pretty good thread where a guy details his experiences taking Clomid during a TBol-only cycle:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/9kzeo2/6_week_cycle_of_tbol_clomid_no_test_base_with/

As you can see, his test level took a hit, LH stayed strong, and FSH took something of a hit. What do you guys think? Does the fact that his LH and FSH (for the most part) stayed up matter more than the fact that his test got knocked down?

I'm currently looking at running a TBol-only cycle starting in late Oct/early Nov alongside torem. Curious to see how it will treat me...
 
Hyde

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rickyBlobbdy

Guys, here's a pretty good thread where a guy details his experiences taking Clomid during a TBol-only cycle:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/9kzeo2/6_week_cycle_of_tbol_clomid_no_test_base_with/

As you can see, his test level took a hit, LH stayed strong, and FSH took something of a hit. What do you guys think? Does the fact that his LH and FSH (for the most part) stayed up matter more than the fact that his test got knocked down?

I'm currently looking at running a TBol-only cycle starting in late Oct/early Nov alongside torem. Curious to see how it will treat me...
Yes - it means recovery will be much faster upon cessation of the anabolics. That’s exactly what I experienced on my cycle btw. Low test but my LH & FSH we’re only lowered, NOT tanked. PCT was easier than ever before.
 
SpicedCider

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Yes - it means recovery will be much faster upon cessation of the anabolics. That’s exactly what I experienced on my cycle btw. Low test but my LH & FSH we’re only lowered, NOT tanked. PCT was easier than ever before.
That's what I was hoping to hear. Do you think torem would be strong enough to provide the same protections against LH and FSH plummeting as clomid?
 
Hyde

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That's what I was hoping to hear. Do you think torem would be strong enough to provide the same protections against LH and FSH plummeting as clomid?
60mg Torem did the trick for me over a 10 week cycle of various transdermals, orals and SARMs.
 
SpicedCider

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60mg Torem did the trick for me over a 10 week cycle of various transdermals, orals and SARMs.
Glad to hear that. I'm really looking forward to starting my TBol-Torem (has a nice ring to it) cycle here in a few weeks. Looking at running the TBol at 50 mg per day for 8 wks, and wondering if it's too liver toxic to increase the dosage to 60 mg/day for the last 2 weeks.
 
Hyde

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Glad to hear that. I'm really looking forward to starting my TBol-Torem (has a nice ring to it) cycle here in a few weeks. Looking at running the TBol at 50 mg per day for 8 wks, and wondering if it's too liver toxic to increase the dosage to 60 mg/day for the last 2 weeks.
As long as you stay very hydrated, that will be very safe (barring no pre-existing conditions). I recommend pre and post bloods so you can get a baseline for what your numbers are and to make sure you’re healthy, plus see what the cycle does to you.

PrivateMDLabs has a Female Hormone Panel (which includes a CMP) +Lipids for like $100 or something reasonable.
 
SpicedCider

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As long as you stay very hydrated, that will be very safe (barring no pre-existing conditions). I recommend pre and post bloods so you can get a baseline for what your numbers are and to make sure you’re healthy, plus see what the cycle does to you.

PrivateMDLabs has a Female Hormone Panel (which includes a CMP) +Lipids for like $100 or something reasonable.
Thanks for the tip on the hormone test, I'll look into buying it. BTW, how does the concept of PCT work in light of the SERM-on-cycle protocol? Would I just keep taking torem for another few weeks following the end of my TBol cycle? Or would I need to start taking something stronger like tamoxifen?
 
Jinsun

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Interesting to see high LH and low TT with Tbol. Kinda the same what I experienced with Ostarine withouth a serm on cycle. My TT was zero not slightly elevated though. So it appears that a serm on cycle might not keep TT and E2 in range but it sure as hel* helps with pct.

In the redit thread his TT and E2 were very low, I personally don't think that I would be happy or feel good with such low E2... In this regard it migh be prudent to add a small amount of an aromatising compound to the mix. For example 10mg dbol in the morning.

My cycle would thus consist of 30mg-40mg tbol, 10mg dbol and 20mg tamox for 6 to 8 weeks (depending on sides and liver values). And I would start tamox 1 week before aas.
 
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Chados the problem you're running into is that 2+2=4 and everyone knows it. If you think 2+2=5, then the burden of proof does indeed lie with you.
 
Chados

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Chados the problem you're running into is that 2+2=4 and everyone knows it. If you think 2+2=5, then the burden of proof does indeed lie with you.
I assume youre talking about me saying one doesn't have to have the full truth and another one can have a point to the story?

I don't think anyone has to prove anything to anyone on this site. I think that people should find the truth themselves and Google studies. If anyone wants me to (believe) something else then they should hand in the proof.

My intentions was never to make people take my side but for them to actually go and discover the truth themselves cause that's what they haven't done now.

This is not me putting my own theory down but it would be a little ignorant to say no 50 guys are wrong and I'm right so believe me because I have this to say. Anyone is welcome to have a discussion with me but to disprove me by saying everyone else says so which means you're wrong isn't to take me seriously and clearly shows that I have no way of convincing you which means I will step aside and let you do whatever you want.

Well I do have a way, I can Google studies and while maybe making others look stupid and ignorant I myself will look stupid to obey orders from someone who doesn't have the energy to Google himself and who doesn't take me seriously enough to Google himself.

Anyone who believes the only truth are in the studies should read the actual studies before making a statement saying I'm wrong.
 
RickyBlobby

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RickyBlobby

Guys, here's a pretty good thread where a guy details his experiences taking Clomid during a TBol-only cycle:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/9kzeo2/6_week_cycle_of_tbol_clomid_no_test_base_with/

As you can see, his test level took a hit, LH stayed strong, and FSH took something of a hit. What do you guys think? Does the fact that his LH and FSH (for the most part) stayed up matter more than the fact that his test got knocked down?

I'm currently looking at running a TBol-only cycle starting in late Oct/early Nov alongside torem. Curious to see how it will treat me...
I can't access that link on my work computer. Ho much clomid was he taking and how low was his test?
 
Jinsun

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I can't access that link on my work computer. Ho much clomid was he taking and how low was his test?
Protocol:

5 days a week with 2 days off (I train PPLPP):

- 1hr preWO = Tbol 30mg with NAC

- postWO/preBed = Clomid 12.5mg

I also take MK677 25mg, Cialis 10mg, vitamin D3+K2 on Fridays which means the missus is happy no matter what.

TT went from 400 to 100. LH stayed the same at 4 and FSH dropped from 3.9 to 2.7.
 
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I assume youre talking about me saying one doesn't have to have the full truth and another one can have a point to the story?

I don't think anyone has to prove anything to anyone on this site. I think that people should find the truth themselves and Google studies. If anyone wants me to (believe) something else then they should hand in the proof.

My intentions was never to make people take my side but for them to actually go and discover the truth themselves cause that's what they haven't done now.

This is not me putting my own theory down but it would be a little ignorant to say no 50 guys are wrong and I'm right so believe me because I have this to say. Anyone is welcome to have a discussion with me but to disprove me by saying everyone else says so which means you're wrong isn't to take me seriously and clearly shows that I have no way of convincing you which means I will step aside and let you do whatever you want.

Well I do have a way, I can Google studies and while maybe making others look stupid and ignorant I myself will look stupid to obey orders from someone who doesn't have the energy to Google himself and who doesn't take me seriously enough to Google himself.

Anyone who believes the only truth are in the studies should read the actual studies before making a statement saying I'm wrong.
Im talking about how you keep asking for proof to refute your claim.

Your stance is pretty contradictory to itself. You say no one has to prove anything but then if someone says you're wrong they need to prove it. I don't think it's too much to ask when it comes to both sides of an argument providing evidence, but of course your argument will be challenged if it does not conform to the norm.
 
Chados

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Im talking about how you keep asking for proof to refute your claim.

Your stance is pretty contradictory to itself. You say no one has to prove anything but then if someone says you're wrong they need to prove it. I don't think it's too much to ask when it comes to both sides of an argument providing evidence, but of course your argument will be challenged if it does not conform to the norm.
I made a statement and when people questioned it I said go Google it yourself. I questioned why I have to show evidence when theres no evidence in this thread to begin with. I questioned people who went by hearsaying instead of looking it up themself. Never did I start by saying guys you have to challenge me on this.

Its like me saying to you dbol is not dangerous at all at any dose and I get 50 followers.. I just think people should look or up before going 100% on board, after all its steroids and serms were talking about, not water and vitamins
 
Hyde

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Thanks for the tip on the hormone test, I'll look into buying it. BTW, how does the concept of PCT work in light of the SERM-on-cycle protocol? Would I just keep taking torem for another few weeks following the end of my TBol cycle? Or would I need to start taking something stronger like tamoxifen?
You would indeed just keep on the Torem for a few weeks after, or switch to Nolva or Clomid if you preferred for some reason, but same duration would apply. They will all work.
 
Jinsun

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You would indeed just keep on the Torem for a few weeks after, or switch to Nolva or Clomid if you preferred for some reason, but same duration would apply. They will all work.
TBH if LH and fsh are basically unaffected a normal pct doesn't really make sense. It's the gonads that need to start producing test again, the pituitary is already up and running. So I would suggest a mini pct of two weeks or something in those lines.
 
Hyde

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TBH if LH and fsh are basically unaffected a normal pct doesn't really make sense. It's the gonads that need to start producing test again, the pituitary is already up and running. So I would suggest a mini pct of two weeks or something in those lines.
Agreed. I took Clomid for about 37.5mg for a couple weeks, a week at 25, and another at 25 eod. Honestly it was overkill.
 
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Excited to try this with clomid + msten for 6 weeks + 4 weeks PCT.
 
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I'm not sure where they're getting these numbers from. From what i remember, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 60mg Torem produced similar results. I'd take Nolva over Clomid despite the cancer scare. Nolva doesnt de-sensitize pituitary to GnRH and also helps manage cholesterol. Torem has all the qualities of Nolva basically with better Cholesterol managing qualities. I haven't tried Torem but will within the next couple of days.
clomid 25 mg/day>nolva 20 mg/day>tore 60 mg/day>ralox 60 mg/day

clomid only causes desensitization issues at doses of 150 mg/day.

clomid promotes liver health whereas nolva (and to a lesser extent, Tore) cause liver issues.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html





.
 
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Take it how you want, i honestly don't care either way lol. I'm just trying to isolate variables as to why you can't get your nuts back online with a SERM on cycle.
So, I need to apologize. going through a divorce, and you had a fair question....



anyway, going off memory here, so I'll give the basics.


-on Clomid, off and on for 1 ½ years trying to avoid TRT. didn't work.... while on clomid (25 mg/day), my T typically went from 300 to 800, but went back down.

-clomid right before TRT. TRT is test cyp 200 mg, HCG 200 IU, arimidex 1 mg every week (I split it all into 2 doses, btw).

-gyno flared up, started ralox (60 mg). No change. Switched to nolva (20 mg), worked in about a week…

-stopped HCG when Nolva ran out for about 2 months. gyno stayed gone, but testicular atrophy kicked in.

-Started HCG back up, and gyno flared again… started Nolva again. Lowered test dose for physical (150 mg/wk) at this time as well….. got bloodwork at this time, and LH and FSH were .5 or something. LH/FSH prior to TRT was usually around 5-7 or so....

-so for the whole time I've been on TRT, I've used Nolva about 4 months, and Ralox about 2 months. TRT was also immediately preceded by clomid for about a month or so. So for half the time I've been on TRT, I've been on a SERM.... and my TRT is not at all applicable to a real cycle in dosage, either. also, testicular atrophy occurred while I was on Nolva….. but immediately reversed when taking 100 IU of HGC twice a week.
 
SpicedCider

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Random question -- why is Toremifene preferred as the on-cycle SERM of choice for users who prefer to cycle with one? Milder side effects than Nolva and Clomid, primarily?
 
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Random question -- why is Toremifene preferred as the on-cycle SERM of choice for users who prefer to cycle with one? Milder side effects than Nolva and Clomid, primarily?
Perfect balance of the two without the toxicity of Nolva and side effects of Clomid. Also protective of the prostrate and possibly lipids.
 
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To bring the excitement back up in this thread, I have a Dr appointment tomorrow where I will get my blood work back, I’m excited about that :)
 
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So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
 
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So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
This post TRT or Post cycle information?
 
Hyde

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So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
What was your LH & FSH levels? Do you have bloods from some time pre cycle to compare? Keep taking the SERM for now, most definitely.
 
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thaifoon90

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So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
You were taking 25mg clomid with 75-100 var right?
 
RickyBlobby

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So... I’m ****ed up =( Testosterone is 43 (low as ****), cholesterol 236 (high) and liver was slightly high... Estrogen was 20 so that’s pretty normal I guess.

I have been feeling bloated and “lose” the last week but I still been fairly strong, I done some PR’s after the blood test, weird...

I didn’t see my regular Dr today and the bitch I saw wanted to put me on HCG, I said no but she tried to argue with me that studies shows that it raise testosterone, I still said no. I going to look for another Dr.

The funny part is that I feel good, except from the bloat, I feel strong and workouts have been going good, libido is good.

Idk, maybe my stuff wasn’t as good as it was supposed to be or Clomid on cycle is not working...

Any advice of what I should do is welcome.
Wow I am shocked your total T was that low with (somewhat) normal estrogen. That is crazy. I was in a much stronger cycle than you at 25 mg clomid and I was in the mid 400’s total T.

Baffled
 
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Wow I am shocked your total T was that low with (somewhat) normal estrogen. That is crazy. I was in a much stronger cycle than you at 25 mg clomid and I was in the mid 400’s total T.

Baffled
Yeah I’m depressed about this... =(
 
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What was your LH & FSH levels? Do you have bloods from some time pre cycle to compare? Keep taking the SERM for now, most definitely.
For some reason I can’t find it, but the Dr said everything else was in normal range, but this Dr is **** and I going to see another Dr on Friday.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Yeah I’m depressed about this... =(
Its really not surprising that your T is that low on that dose of VAR. Would have been nice to see LH/FSH but I wager your total T will come up very quickly after stopping the VAR
 
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Its really not surprising that your T is that low on that dose of VAR. Would have been nice to see LH/FSH but I wager your total T will come up very quickly after stopping the VAR
I hope so, I was about to stop Clomid but I’ll get some more and run 50mg ed for 2 weeks and then do 25mg for another 2 weeks and retest after that.
 
RickyBlobby

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Where did you source your clomid. Hard to believe 25 mg a day could not keep t levels normal
 
NoAddedHmones

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I hope so, I was about to stop Clomid but I’ll get some more and run 50mg ed for 2 weeks and then do 25mg for another 2 weeks and retest after that.
Without knowing ur LH/FSH its shooting blind but I dont think you need to up to Clomid dose, just stop the VAR. Get some Enclom if you do this experiment again. the cis isomer is an estrogenic (agonist) and it hangs around in the system much longer (disrupts HPTA homeostasis) than the trans isomer which is the work horse for boosting test.

Remember the Testis have androgen receptors, estrogen receptors etc, that dose of VAR activity (as demonstrated by your bloods) on the AR outweighs the stimulation of the LH/FSH.
 

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