Christian Friends - End Time Prophecies?

Sup AE: Similarly, Aetheists have faith in the theory there is no God since science has yet to prove the the same tangible proof for the non-existence of God as you stated. 2-way street :)

The burden of proof in the context you presented is a man-made mindset and becomes irelevant when discussing God to a Christian ;)

OT: I believe we will see a WWIII soon, it seems inevitable. To what degree will the world be destroyed from it remains to be seen.
 
Whacked said:
Sup AE: Similarly, Aetheists have faith in the theory there is no God since science has yet to prove the the same tangible proof for the non-existence of God as you stated. 2-way street :)

The burden of proof in the context you presented is a man-made mindset and becomes irelevant when discussing God to a Christian ;)

OT: I believe we will see a WWIII soon, it seems inevitable. To what degree will the world be destroyed from it remains to be seen.
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What ?? In science something becomes fact because it has been proven to be true. The exact opposite of religion/faith.And believing something with no burden of proof .. magic ,fairytales , religion is also a man-made mind set. To explain things that he cannot explain.
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vidapreta said:
What ?? In science something becomes fact because it has been proven to be true. The exact opposite of religion/faith.And believing something with no burden of proof .. magic ,fairytales , religion is also a man-made mind set. To explain things that he cannot explain.
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There are no "facts" or "proven" things in science. Its all theory
 
Wrong, what are you talking about.Once a theory becomes proven It's a fact.

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Whacked said:
Sup AE: Similarly, Aetheists have faith in the theory there is no God since science has yet to prove the the same tangible proof for the non-existence of God as you stated. 2-way street :)

The burden of proof in the context you presented is a man-made mindset and becomes irelevant when discussing God to a Christian ;)

OT: I believe we will see a WWIII soon, it seems inevitable. To what degree will the world be destroyed from it remains to be seen.
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No offense, but this is a large copout, which I think you know. The burden of proof is always on the theist, however, I will leave that point as it is for now.

When you mention man-made concept, is it not plausible that the god you mention is just that as well? Just a question out of curiosity.

OT: You never responded to my comments about revelations and Nero. Since Nero was in fact from the time after Jesus, it is very realistic to believe that he is the antichrist mentioned. As evidence:
Christians were terrified of him, as shown in their hidden catacombs. Take a look at the depictions of Jesus in the catacombs. He looks nothing at all like the later version. In fact....he looks like a Roman. The early Christians, out of fear, were trying to mix in with the Romans.

Point 2 for Nero....the Domus Aurea (Nero's Golden Palace) Do you know how Nero lit that long passage way into his palace? He had Christians lit on fire and put on wooden steaks along the way. I would assume that the early Christians would have considered him the antichrist.
 
Again there are no facts in science. Yes, even something such as what is the freezing point, will continue to get challenged and tested. It is all theory, there all no facts. Ask any scientist or science major or professor or whoever in the industry and they will say the same. The notion that something can be proven to be absolute in science is laughable. This is the beauty of science really and why it continues to grow and evolve, it is because nothing is accepted as fact and is always constantly being tested. Example: it was long considered a law that all living organisms must be comprised of the same biological chemical building blocks (oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, sulphur and phosphorus) and this was considered fact for many many years, that is up until recently where a bacterium was found in some arsenic filled waters and had just about overturned our entire understanding of the biochemistry of living organisms. This bacteria was able to use arsenic instead of phosphorus which prior to this discovery was unheard of and considered impossible. Point is, there are no "facts" in science. Just theory.
This is really the basis of all science. You have an idea (a hypothesis) and then you have to try and somewhat prove or disprove your hypothesis and then you have the beginning of theory. In science a theory is something that's somewhat considered to be proven but nothing is really accepted as a fact, because scientists are always ready to revise or throw out a theory when better evidence comes along. Again this is the beauty of science. There are no definitive answers. Hell look at pluto. Just until a couple years ago many would say it is a "fact" that our solar system contained 9 planets and then one day some scientist realizes that pluto is not a planet but just another kuiper belt object. So much for that "fact" huh? Point is, it is all theory in science and nothing is definitively known.
 
BTW, I am not looking to get involved in the religious debate here, as from my experience it is just about always a waste of time trying to convince or debate with someone on their irrational beliefs (I am agnostic BTW)
 
JudoJosh said:
Again there are no facts in science. Yes, even something such as what is the freezing point, will continue to get challenged and tested. It is all theory, there all no facts. Ask any scientist or science major or professor or whoever in the industry and they will say the same. The notion that something can be proven to be absolute in science is laughable. This is the beauty of science really and why it continues to grow and evolve, it is because nothing is accepted as fact and is always constantly being tested. Example: it was long considered a law that all living organisms must be comprised of the same biological chemical building blocks (oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, sulphur and phosphorus) and this was considered fact for many many years, that is up until recently where a bacterium was found in some arsenic filled waters and had just about overturned our entire understanding of the biochemistry of living organisms. This bacteria was able to use arsenic instead of phosphorus which prior to this discovery was unheard of and considered impossible. Point is, there are no "facts" in science. Just theory.
This is really the basis of all science. You have an idea (a hypothesis) and then you have to try and somewhat prove or disprove your hypothesis and then you have the beginning of theory. In science a theory is something that's somewhat considered to be proven but nothing is really accepted as a fact, because scientists are always ready to revise or throw out a theory when better evidence comes along. Again this is the beauty of science. There are no definitive answers. Hell look at pluto. Just until a couple years ago many would say it is a "fact" that our solar system contained 9 planets and then one day some scientist realizes that pluto is not a planet but just another kuiper belt object. So much for that "fact" huh? Point is, it is all theory in science and nothing is definitively known.
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This is true, science is no based on proving. It is based on disproving through experiments, observation and critical thinking.

A scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.[1]
A scientific theory is a type of inductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory.[2]
 
i wanna really go back to the subject..... This is just turning into a piss match, with manners lol. I appreciate everyone being so considerate and love the fact that we can talk so nicely to eachother on such a sticky and touchy subject. But PLease PLEASE! PLEASE go back to the subject and disregard any other comment that was posted or commented on previous post...... Back to the subject cause it was a lot more interesting..... I can reread conversation on other threads about religion vs athiests.....

STOP!
 
madds87 said:
Please back to the subject, again!!!!!
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Like I stated before. Even if God were proven, this would not mean the assembled collection of books that is known as the bible are from the omnipotent. The biblical books have both good and evil in them and many contradictions and inaccuracies. This would indicate the books are man made and and not based on any empirical evidence. There are many different creationist and holy books. Which do MOST choose? ANSWER: the one they were born into and the the one that is geographically influential.

I am a skeptical person by nature. Just because someone wrote a book 2000 years ago is not convincing for me an many. I find comfort in the thought of a higher power only because we are accustomed to finite thought and can't comprehend infinite.
 
I give up

LOL :p

Let me know when everyone wants to discuss possible END TIME EVENTS
 
Whacked said:
I give up

LOL :p

Let me know when everyone wants to discuss possible END TIME EVENTS
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Check my most recent post. I did address something that you didn't respond to originally. :)
 
Sorry brother, I missed it due to the extra-curriculars ! :p

Let me take a peak.

AE14 said:
Check my most recent post. I did address something that you didn't respond to originally. :)
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Points #1 + #2:
I have heard that theory as well. I think it was on either the Discovery, History or Nat'l Geo Channel. I think I saw where they decoded his name numerically somehow to arrive at 666.

While Nero was pure evil terror for the Jews (and Christians), based on Bible Prophesy timelines, NERO cannot be the AntiChrist.

There’s a group of scholars who believe that the Book of Revelation is all history and does not speak of the end times. They’re called Preterists. Many of them don’t believe in a Rapture, Great Tribulation, or 2nd Coming, but that only the judgment of mankind remains for future fulfillment.

The problem is that many other End Times prophecies were not fulfilled in the times of Nero, nor have they been since. Preterists twist the Scriptures to either deny those prophecies exist, or they find substitute fulfillment.

For example, instead of having the anti-Christ stand in the Temple proclaiming he’s God for the Abomination of Desolation as in 2 Thes 2:4 and Daniel 9:27, they claim that when Rome affixed a large model of the Roman Eagle to the wall just outside the main gate of the Temple this prophecy was fulfilled. Some Preterists also claim that the 2nd Coming prophecies were fulfilled on the Mount of Transfiguration when Jesus in His glorified form to Peter, James, and John (Matt. 17:1-8).

Again, the Antichrist is clearly someone who sits in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2.4) and therein exalts himself against God, meaning he opposes Christ from within the Church. Nero never professed to be a Christian. Antichrist speaks of apostasy: an unbeliever is not an apostate.

There’s no doubt that Nero was a model for the future ant-Christ, as were Antiochus Epiphanes before him and Hitler after him. But to make the claim that the prophecies of Revelation were all fulfilled during Nero’s reign requires a gross departure from the literal, historical, grammatical interpretation of Scripture to which Futurists (those who believe the Revelation is about our future) adhere.

AE14 said:
You never responded to my comments about revelations and Nero. Since Nero was in fact from the time after Jesus, it is very realistic to believe that he is the antichrist mentioned. As evidence:
Christians were terrified of him, as shown in their hidden catacombs. Take a look at the depictions of Jesus in the catacombs. He looks nothing at all like the later version. In fact....he looks like a Roman. The early Christians, out of fear, were trying to mix in with the Romans.

Point 2 for Nero....the Domus Aurea (Nero's Golden Palace) Do you know how Nero lit that long passage way into his palace? He had Christians lit on fire and put on wooden steaks along the way. I would assume that the early Christians would have considered him the antichrist.
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luclyluciano said:
Like I stated before. Even if God were proven, this would not mean the assembled collection of books that is known as the bible are from the omnipotent. The biblical books have both good and evil in them and many contradictions and inaccuracies. This would indicate the books are man made and and not based on any empirical evidence. There are many different creationist and holy books. Which do MOST choose? ANSWER: the one they were born into and the the one that is geographically influential.

I am a skeptical person by nature. Just because someone wrote a book 2000 years ago is not convincing for me an many. I find comfort in the thought of a higher power only because we are accustomed to finite thought and can't comprehend infinite.
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Shut up lol
 
Whacked said:
Points #1 + #2:
I have heard that theory as well. I think it was on either the Discovery, History or Nat'l Geo Channel. I think I saw where they decoded his name numerically somehow to arrive at 666.

While Nero was pure evil terror for the Jews (and Christians), based on Bible Prophesy timelines, NERO cannot be the AntiChrist.

There’s a group of scholars who believe that the Book of Revelation is all history and does not speak of the end times. They’re called Preterists. Many of them don’t believe in a Rapture, Great Tribulation, or 2nd Coming, but that only the judgment of mankind remains for future fulfillment.

The problem is that many other End Times prophecies were not fulfilled in the times of Nero, nor have they been since. Preterists twist the Scriptures to either deny those prophecies exist, or they find substitute fulfillment.

For example, instead of having the anti-Christ stand in the Temple proclaiming he’s God for the Abomination of Desolation as in 2 Thes 2:4 and Daniel 9:27, they claim that when Rome affixed a large model of the Roman Eagle to the wall just outside the main gate of the Temple this prophecy was fulfilled. Some Preterists also claim that the 2nd Coming prophecies were fulfilled on the Mount of Transfiguration when Jesus in His glorified form to Peter, James, and John (Matt. 17:1-8).

Again, the Antichrist is clearly someone who sits in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2.4) and therein exalts himself against God, meaning he opposes Christ from within the Church. Nero never professed to be a Christian. Antichrist speaks of apostasy: an unbeliever is not an apostate.

There’s no doubt that Nero was a model for the future ant-Christ, as were Antiochus Epiphanes before him and Hitler after him. But to make the claim that the prophecies of Revelation were all fulfilled during Nero’s reign requires a gross departure from the literal, historical, grammatical interpretation of Scripture to which Futurists (those who believe the Revelation is about our future) adhere.
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There were many Roman emperors who could qualify based on these depictions. Titus would be a great example
 
Agreed. I think this supports the mindset that there are and have been many antiChrists while most Christians ultimately believe that there will be ONE MAIN AntiChrist and shall be revealed in the Abomination of Desolation which I believe has yet to occur. My timeline states that this will; occur 3.5 years into the Tribulation, ushering in the Great Tribulation and final 3/5 yerars berfore Christ's second coming.


AE14 said:
There were many Roman emperors who could qualify based on these depictions. Titus would be a great example
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Whacked said:
Agreed. I think this supports the mindset that there are and have been many antiChrists while most Christians ultimately believe that there will be ONE MAIN AntiChrist and shall be revealed in the Abomination of Desolation which I believe has yet to occur. My timeline states that this will; occur 3.5 years into the Tribulation, ushering in the Great Tribulation and final 3/5 yerars berfore Christ's second coming.
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Second coming? Based on OT Messiah prophecy?

You do realize that there is a reason that the Jews of the time did not believe he was the Messiah, he did not fit the criteria or biblical requirements.
 
T-AD said:
That being said, I'm sorry that I can't agree with anything here. I am an atheist. It was not an easy decision, but ultimately, I made this choice. I am educated, even in verse, and don't have trouble convincing most that I am a staunch christian believer if they care to debate me on things. I believe the term "devil's advocate" might be appropriate here, though I don't believe in that concept either. HOWEVER... I am not closed-minded. I just lack faith of any sort beyond what my senses tell me. I'm open to be converted, but it won't be by any words, no matter who has spoken or written them. I keep my faith cup empty. (Don't feel sorry for me... that seems to be a typical reaction.) I study much, I observe much, and I take everything into consideration. When it comes to "religion", if I had to pick, I like Taoism. It's peaceful.

To me, the end times may come soon, later, or never at all. I don't know, nor do I care to know. If it occurs in my life time, I will bear witness. I will accept my fate knowing that I have lived the life I chose. If I am to be judged, it will not be on false pretenses. I am true to myself, and if that is a "sin", then I am a "sinner". Until that day comes, if ever, I live what many might consider to be a "christian life" without the influence of christ, faith, or any of it. Faith isn't a bad thing. It's the factions/fractions we call religion where things fall apart...







It's this notion of blind faith and devotion that I don't get. I question. I question questions. I refuse to put blinders on and follow the shepherd when I can opt to atleast view the countryside. To understand the teachings of the Bible, one should question their meanings and discover for oneself how they can apply to one's own life. Let us not forget that the current versions of the book are interpretations of translations of stories told by fallible men. Not one of us could write the perfect guide on how to live, and since the actual book of 'christ' is missing, it's up to the interpretations of men. One may question the word of man, but it is my understanding that christians need not question the word of god.



Much could be said about Christianity, my friend. Remember the Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Trials? Nazi Germany? Bombing of abortion clinics? All of these are said to be done in the name of god, NOT allah. The death toll for Christianity is far higher than that of the Muslim world. If they have a score to settle, they have a LONG way to go...
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Welcome! Unfortunately I run into atheists who know more about the bible than the "christian" preachers who teach about it! Their issue is exactly the same as you have found. They just lack faith. I respect your honesty. Unfortunately though, All too often atheists see the hypocrisy being taught in religion today and dismiss the bible altogether.

I question blind faith too. If God wanted us to understand something he wouldn't make it so complicated. Man has made it complicated. The bible in fact tells not to believe every word you hear. People often read a passage and don't read what's around it. They will take one line to make a point when the passage is talking about something completely different. A educated bible reader understands when this happens and cannot be fooled. The more educated one becomes in the bible he realizes the bible interpretes itself.
 
vidapreta said:
Once a theory becomes proven It's a fact.

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Until that "fact" becomes replaced with a new theory.
 
Clickster said:
John 10:30-33 -- "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 1:1-- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
-----------John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 20:28 -- "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Col. 2:9 -- "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

These are just a few of many verses that make me believe Jesus is God.
"Yes, You just have to have faith son" was a very poor response from the preacher. Especially when so much scripture can answer the question.

Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship.

--I agree with most of the discussion of the anti-christ. It is found all over the place.
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And these are often the scriptures used to support the trinity myth.

The son and the father are one in the sense that they are in Union. There's no mention that they are the same being.

I've touched on this before. James 1:1 Teaches in the beginning was the word (Jesus) well the scriptures teach us that God had no beginning. Jesus was the first born of all creation. So he could not be God because he had a beginning. This translation is most likely off or misunderstood by many. You can argue again that it's not talking about the physical being of God but in image.

Above all your just buying into the lie they taught you. Twisting scriptures to support their "doctrine".

On the trinity.

“The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

".......It is difficult in the second half of the 20th century to offer a clear, objective and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and theological elaboration of the Mystery of the trinity. Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, present a somewhat unsteady silhouette. Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma 'One God in three Persons' became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought ... it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development" (emphasis added).

"The New Catholic Encyclopedia," Volume XIV, p. 295



The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.


Do your research kids, It is a man made doctrine.

Mark 12:29 KJV "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"
 
Flaw said:
And these are often the scriptures used to support the trinity myth.

The son and the father are one in the sense that they are in Union. There's no mention that they are the same being.

I've touched on this before. James 1:1 Teaches in the beginning was the word (Jesus) well the scriptures teach us that God had no beginning. Jesus was the first born of all creation. So he could not be God because he had a beginning. This translation is most likely off or misunderstood by many. You can argue again that it's not talking about the physical being of God but in image.

Above all your just buying into the lie they taught you. Twisting scriptures to support their "doctrine".

On the trinity.

“The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

".......It is difficult in the second half of the 20th century to offer a clear, objective and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and theological elaboration of the Mystery of the trinity. Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, present a somewhat unsteady silhouette. Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma 'One God in three Persons' became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought ... it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development" (emphasis added).

"The New Catholic Encyclopedia," Volume XIV, p. 295

The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

Do your research kids, It is a man made doctrine.

Mark 12:29 KJV "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"
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The very opening of the bible is the word. The word was God and the word was with God? I'm not a hardcore bible reader do correct me if I'm wrong, but that would mean they are the same.

Also, don't the Jews not except Jesus because they were looking for more of a warrior type messiah?
 
I'm very glad I stumbled across this thread. It certainly started out with some very interesting debate and a lot of useful scripture. The past I-don't-know-how-many pages horribly detracted from it, unfortunately (excluding a few posts). I'm glad Flaw brought things back at the start of this page; hopefully it can stay there.

As it's been stated, faith, in general, is something that thousands of threads couldn't even contain. I'd really like to see this thread stay on topic with the end of days conversation. As for bringing other religions into it, the relevance should be scripture-based only, if at all. What I will say is I know plenty of "Christians" who are evil and plenty of non-believers, Muslims, etc. who are very good men and women. As is true with anything in life, there are exceptions. There are also people who claim to be a member or something when they really aren't. It's been years since I've read through scriptures for Buddhism, Islam and Daoism, so I won't even begin to recall what is written in their books of belief. What I do recall, though, is that they were all very kind religions. Like I said, though, that's a debate that doesn't even belong in here.

I'm very saddened to see a Muslim member on here who had to sift through some of the posts that he did. It's very easy for any of us to include emotion and subtext along with whatever factual text we're writing about, but I think we need to be cautious of this. Posting passages from scripture (whether it's factual or perhaps mistakenly not factual) should not be accompanied with commentary that just reflects poorly on all of us.

Anyway, I've seen a lot of good, and unfortunately some bad, in this thread. I'd very much like to see it get back and stay on track with the thread's intent. Some of the scripture has definitely made me take deeper reflection on my own life and where my actions have stood. I have not been a great example of a Christian, lately, and it breaks my heart to finally be able to step back and see that. I will be doing a lot in an attempt to correct this.
 
BACK ON TOPIC: End Times:

Here is my attempt at the chronology of events to come:

Please feel free to jump in as I do NOT claim to be an authority on this matter.

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The Rapture (God takes up His church/His people) - Born Again Christians escape this horrible period of the Tribulation

In his letter to the church at Thessalonica, Paul writes, "The Lord himself will descend from heaven... and the dead in Christ will rise first.” But he adds that “we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."[1 Th. 4:16-17] The rising of those who are still alive to join the resurrected dead is known as the Rapture.

Tribulation - 7 years
A time of terrible tribulation such as this has never been known, a time of natural and man-made disasters on a horrific scale. Jesus said that at the time of his coming, "There will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."[Mt 24:21-22]

During this 7 year period:
One World Government/Governance - lead by the AntiChrist
One World Religion - lead by the False Prophet

First 3.5 years - bad news - The AntiChrist forms a 7 year peace treaty with Israel

Final 3.5 years - aka the Great Tribulation - the AntiChrist sits in the temple and declares himself to be GOD (know as the Abomination of Desolation) and turns on Israel/breaks the treaty and gets the entire world to seize on Israel. No one will be able to buy/eat/trade/sell food/goods w/o accepting the mark of the beast (666) on forehead or hand (which will ensure one's soul goes to Hell as you are pledging allegiance to the AntiChrist).

The Final Day of the Tribulation time period - Jesus returns as a warrior this time (known as The "2nd coming" of Christ) with his Angels and Raptured Believers and crushes the Anti-Christ and rescues Israel just prior to it being blown off the map. "The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed him on white horses."[Rev 19:14] Revelation continues: "I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse and against his army."[Rev 19:19] Isaiah also speaks of such a battle: "The Lord will come with fire and with his chariots, like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword the Lord will judge all flesh, and the slain of the Lord will be many."[Is. 66:15-16]

Jesus throws the AntiChrist and False Prophet into the lake of fire.
"I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.[Rev 20:1-3]"

The final Judgement of ALL mankind takes place (people go to Heaven or Hell based upon IF they accepted Jesus as their Savior (and are written in the "Book of Life")

Jesus establishes His thrown, His Kingdom and His rule on Earth for 1,000 years. There is total peace on earth. "the lion lay down with the lamb". The wolf will dwell with the lamb; the leopard will lie down with the young goat; the calf, and the young lion, and the yearling together, and a little child will lead them. The cow and the bear will graze; their young ones will lie down together; and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The nursing child will play by the cobra's hole; and the weaned child will put his hand in the viper's den. They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. [Is 11:5-9]Just as the physical bodies of people are changed into spiritual bodies in the resurrection (see above), so Isaiah implies that animals will undergo a transformation which enables them to live in peace with human beings and with each other. There is no more killing, either in the human or the animal kingdoms. God reverses the covenant made with Noah in which he said, "The fear and the dread of you will be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that moves on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea."[Gen 9:2]

After this 1,000 years: Satan and all his devils/demons are released but the revolt is squashed quickly and God throws all of them and into the Lake of Fire forever and "infinity" begins .

"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."[Rev 20:10] Satan will join the Antichrist and the Invalid Link Removed, who were condemned to the lake of fire at the beginning of the Millennium.
 
NuclearLaunch said:
The very opening of the bible is the word. The word was God and the word was with God? I'm not a hardcore bible reader do correct me if I'm wrong, but that would mean they are the same.

Also, don't the Jews not except Jesus because they were looking for more of a warrior type messiah?
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What do you mean by the very opening of the bible is the word? Do you mean God's written word?

Despite the overwhelming evidence that Jesus was the messiah the Jews simply didn't accept him because he didn't fit their ideas of what the messiah would be. They wanted a political Messiah, one who would end roman oppression and restore Israel to the days of Solomon. They couldn't accept that he was a humble carpenter who showed no interest in politics or riches.
 
Flaw said:
What do you mean by the very opening of the bible is the word? Do you mean God's written word?

Despite the overwhelming evidence that Jesus was the messiah the Jews simply didn't accept him because he didn't fit their ideas of what the messiah would be. They wanted a political Messiah, one who would end roman oppression and restore Israel to the days of Solomon. They couldn't accept that he was a humble carpenter who showed no interest in politics or riches.
Click to expand...

It was much more than that. OT prophecy was very specific in the criteria, and Jesus did not fit. It really is that simple.
 
AE14 said:
It was much more than that. OT prophecy was very specific in the criteria, and Jesus did not fit. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

Show the criteria, sir. I won't believe it simply because in all of my reading the OT I have never seen a scripture not describing Jesus. In fact, most stories in the OT are imagery of what was to come (Jesus). There is also scripture in the OT that talks about the very people that God would come to save (Jews) would not believe in Him and not trusting in the Messiah. Quite honestly, I dont see how one could not observe the connection b/w Christ and the OT. In fact, you can tell that Christ is the Messiah because He totally man-handles the Pharisee's in the NT. They didn't stand a chance and eventually resorted to killing Him in order to cover up His message of hope.

There is a theme about the Jews throughout the OT - they were very temporal beings that constantly let the immediate circumstances overcome their faith in God. Nothing changed about this aspect of the Jews during the NT. They again focused on having physical, worldy needs met rather than understanding their eternal needs.
 
fueledpassion said:
Show the criteria, sir. I won't believe it simply because in all of my reading the OT I have never seen a scripture not describing Jesus. In fact, most stories in the OT are imagery of what was to come (Jesus). There is also scripture in the OT that talks about the very people that God would come to save (Jews) would not believe in Him and not trusting in the Messiah. Quite honestly, I dont see how one could not observe the connection b/w Christ and the OT. In fact, you can tell that Christ is the Messiah because He totally man-handles the Pharisee's in the NT. They didn't stand a chance and eventually resorted to killing Him in order to cover up His message of hope.

There is a theme about the Jews throughout the OT - they were very temporal beings that constantly let the immediate circumstances overcome their faith in God. Nothing changed about this aspect of the Jews during the NT. They again focused on having physical, worldy needs met rather than understanding their eternal needs.
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Agreed. That and What they thought was blasphemy. With Jesus saying that "Your sins are forgiven". OT mentions that Only God can forgive sins. With this miss understanding on the Jews part. Still saying he is not the Christ. This is just a small example.
 
AE14 said:
It was much more than that. OT prophecy was very specific in the criteria, and Jesus did not fit. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

This is the very Jewish Ideal that has been passed down through generations but very few Jewish people question it. Your gonna make me work on this one, That's ok ;) Just some of the many reasons why Jesus was the messiah as prophesized in the OT. Feel free to open up your bible and follow along.

Prophecy and Fullfillment from the OT to the NT.

Born of the Tribe of Judah Gen 49:10 Luke 3:23-33
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matt 1:18-25
Descended from King David Isaiah 9:7 Matt 1:1, 6-17
Declared by God (Jehovah) to be his son Psalm 2:7 Matt 3:17
He would not be believed in Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37-38
Would enter Jerusalem riding a ass Zechariah 9:9 Matt 21:1-9
Betrayed by a close friend Psalm 41:9 John 13: 18, 21-30
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12 Matt 26:14-16
He remained silent when accused Isaiah 53:7 Matt 27: 11-14
Lots cast for his garments Psalm 22:18 Matt 27:35
Reviled while on the stake Psalm 22: 7,8 Matt 27: 39-43
None of his bones would be broken Psalm 34:20 John 19: 33,36
Buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matt 27: 57-60
Raised before corruption Psalm 16:10 Act 2: 24,27
Exalted to God's right hand Psalm 110:1 Act 7:56
Would be born in Jerusalem Micah 5:2 Matt 2:1
He would be called out of Egypt Hosea 11:1 Matt 2:15


The Jews were so "fixed" on their Ideal Messiah that they didn't even realize they were part of prophecy. The same goes for today. All the signs point to "end of days" yet few are listening.
 
Flaw said:
. All the signs point to "end of days" yet few are listening.
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Good post.

Few are listening. Few will stand for Israel. Most in this country are apathetic...
 
Flaw said:
This is the very Jewish Ideal that has been passed down through generations but very few Jewish people question it. Your gonna make me work on this one, That's ok ;) Just some of the many reasons why Jesus was the messiah as prophesized in the OT. Feel free to open up your bible and follow along.

Prophecy and Fullfillment from the OT to the NT.

Born of the Tribe of Judah Gen 49:10 Luke 3:23-33
Born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matt 1:18-25
Descended from King David Isaiah 9:7 Matt 1:1, 6-17
Declared by God (Jehovah) to be his son Psalm 2:7 Matt 3:17
He would not be believed in Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37-38
Would enter Jerusalem riding a ass Zechariah 9:9 Matt 21:1-9
Betrayed by a close friend Psalm 41:9 John 13: 18, 21-30
Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12 Matt 26:14-16
He remained silent when accused Isaiah 53:7 Matt 27: 11-14
Lots cast for his garments Psalm 22:18 Matt 27:35
Reviled while on the stake Psalm 22: 7,8 Matt 27: 39-43
None of his bones would be broken Psalm 34:20 John 19: 33,36
Buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matt 27: 57-60
Raised before corruption Psalm 16:10 Act 2: 24,27
Exalted to God's right hand Psalm 110:1 Act 7:56
Would be born in Jerusalem Micah 5:2 Matt 2:1
He would be called out of Egypt Hosea 11:1 Matt 2:15


The Jews were so "fixed" on their Ideal Messiah that they didn't even realize they were part of prophecy. The same goes for today. All the signs point to "end of days" yet few are listening.
Click to expand...

^^^ Str8 owned, lol. I'm following along! I'm enjoying the victory in Truth!

Flaw ur my new best friend on AM
 
Anyone?

lol

Whacked said:
BACK ON TOPIC: End Times:

Here is my attempt at the chronology of events to come:

Please feel free to jump in as I do NOT claim to be an authority on this matter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Rapture (God takes up His church/His people) - Born Again Christians escape this horrible period of the Tribulation

In his letter to the church at Thessalonica, Paul writes, "The Lord himself will descend from heaven... and the dead in Christ will rise first.” But he adds that “we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."[1 Th. 4:16-17] The rising of those who are still alive to join the resurrected dead is known as the Rapture.

Tribulation - 7 years
A time of terrible tribulation such as this has never been known, a time of natural and man-made disasters on a horrific scale. Jesus said that at the time of his coming, "There will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."[Mt 24:21-22]

During this 7 year period:
One World Government/Governance - lead by the AntiChrist
One World Religion - lead by the False Prophet

First 3.5 years - bad news - The AntiChrist forms a 7 year peace treaty with Israel

Final 3.5 years - aka the Great Tribulation - the AntiChrist sits in the temple and declares himself to be GOD (know as the Abomination of Desolation) and turns on Israel/breaks the treaty and gets the entire world to seize on Israel. No one will be able to buy/eat/trade/sell food/goods w/o accepting the mark of the beast (666) on forehead or hand (which will ensure one's soul goes to Hell as you are pledging allegiance to the AntiChrist).

The Final Day of the Tribulation time period - Jesus returns as a warrior this time (known as The "2nd coming" of Christ) with his Angels and Raptured Believers and crushes the Anti-Christ and rescues Israel just prior to it being blown off the map. "The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed him on white horses."[Rev 19:14] Revelation continues: "I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse and against his army."[Rev 19:19] Isaiah also speaks of such a battle: "The Lord will come with fire and with his chariots, like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword the Lord will judge all flesh, and the slain of the Lord will be many."[Is. 66:15-16]

Jesus throws the AntiChrist and False Prophet into the lake of fire.
"I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.[Rev 20:1-3]"

The final Judgement of ALL mankind takes place (people go to Heaven or Hell based upon IF they accepted Jesus as their Savior (and are written in the "Book of Life")

Jesus establishes His thrown, His Kingdom and His rule on Earth for 1,000 years. There is total peace on earth. "the lion lay down with the lamb". The wolf will dwell with the lamb; the leopard will lie down with the young goat; the calf, and the young lion, and the yearling together, and a little child will lead them. The cow and the bear will graze; their young ones will lie down together; and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The nursing child will play by the cobra's hole; and the weaned child will put his hand in the viper's den. They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. [Is 11:5-9]Just as the physical bodies of people are changed into spiritual bodies in the resurrection (see above), so Isaiah implies that animals will undergo a transformation which enables them to live in peace with human beings and with each other. There is no more killing, either in the human or the animal kingdoms. God reverses the covenant made with Noah in which he said, "The fear and the dread of you will be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that moves on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea."[Gen 9:2]

After this 1,000 years: Satan and all his devils/demons are released but the revolt is squashed quickly and God throws all of them and into the Lake of Fire forever and "infinity" begins .

"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."[Rev 20:10] Satan will join the Antichrist and the Invalid Link Removed, who were condemned to the lake of fire at the beginning of the Millennium.
Click to expand...
 
Wow I just read this whole thread. Alot of good some bad. All of us should be very careful of debunking another religion. As far as what is truth and what isn't wouldn't the oldest (first) religion be the (right) one? Just food for thought. I do believe it's going to be a one anti christ and the mark of the beast. I don't believe it's gonna be 666 I believe it's gonna be some kind of computer chip that takes the place of your wallet essentially. I'm sure I'm leaving alot of stuff I wanted to say it'll comeback to me tho lol
 
The timeline above is what I have been taught and learned about. One thing that is spoken about in theendtimes is that all nations coming against Israel. If you haven't been paying attention, the number of allies to Israel is quickly diminishing.

Another item yet to be fulfilledis the rebuilding of the temple. I haven't been able to determine the timelime for that though. There is a real estate conflict right now, with a mosque sitting where the temple is supposed to go. I am curious how the land will be cleared and when. Will it be during the attacks on Israel? Will God see to it that the mosque is destroyed? It would have to be before the rapture if the tribulation begins after the rapture. The anti christ is supposed to claim to be Christ in the temple, so just how far away from that are we?

Invalid Link Removed

I have read a book by Joel Rosenberg called Epicenter. He ties end times prophecies to current events. It is a pretty interesting read. He is a leading authority in Israeli history. He has worked for several prime mi.ushers. just look at the moves of other nations coming against Israel in the past few years, and how he ties it to some scriptures. Granted his interpretations of those scriptures are potentially as fallible as my interpretations, or any other bible scholars for that matter, so don't sling too much mud.
 
rsnake21 said:
Wow I just read this whole thread. Alot of good some bad. All of us should be very careful of debunking another religion. As far as what is truth and what isn't wouldn't the oldest (first) religion be the (right) one? Just food for thought. I do believe it's going to be a one anti christ and the mark of the beast. I don't believe it's gonna be 666 I believe it's gonna be some kind of computer chip that takes the place of your wallet essentially. I'm sure I'm leaving alot of stuff I wanted to say it'll comeback to me tho lol
Click to expand...

Two words for you. GOOGLE WALLET
 
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