Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

[Sheriff Morri]

Man I’m sorry but I’m finding it really difficult to follow the results you are showing. I think it’s amazing the effort you’re putting in. However my head can’t work round all these figures.

 

[Sheriff Morri]

Are you’re finding showing that mk677 is on the same level as injecting HGH?

 

[jdk35]

tregar, here are some updates from my recent bloodwork:
11/2019 age 35 baseline never having used peps before and having done some random amount of exo GH 7 years ago: 180
02/02/20 after 2 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 2 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day: 406
03/05/20 after 3 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 5 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day + 4 weeks CJC-1295 DAC 5mg/week: 293
03/13/20 after 3 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 6 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day + 5 weeks CJC-1295 DAC 5mg/week: 240

Interesting points:
1. IGF of 406 was achieved before I even added CJC-1295. I thought CJC-1295 would add a lot.
2. March 10th I switched to Narrows Labs MK liquid. I definitely don't recommend it. The powder took time to reconstitute because I had to weigh 25mg and then let it soak in water for 20 minutes. Smelled rough, but clean and strong. The liquid version from Narrows smelled like mold and didn't taste as strong with a supposed dose of 25mg.
3. Why did I retest on 03/13/20? Notice I hadn't really changed any dosages aside from moving to the liquid MK, which I didn't think would be changing anything. I retested because the 293 from 03/05/20 seemed low and I hadn't workout that day. I was having a hunch that a workout morning (I always work out in the morning) might spike IGF that afternoon. With the result of 240 on 03/13/20, I guess not.
4. These results are still pretty good and this is a lot cheaper than running 3-4iu per day of HGH which I think is what would be needed to average this range.
5. I do have a hunch the fresh MK powder was very potent when new, and that is what got me to the 406 just two weeks after adding it. So I'll see how I feel after I switch back to the powder for a couple weeks and I may do bloods again.
6. On 03/05/20 I also did a full liver, kidney CBC etc. workup and everything was in range. So 3 months on GHRP-6 and almost 2 months on MK have no negative impact on those.
7. Very important one: On 02/10/20 I started 300Deca and 500primobolan per week (see total T in the 03/13 result below). I think there is a chance the deca primarily and possibly also the primo are reducing the pit function. Leads me to a thought that possibly exo HGH may be good to stack with AAS, but AAS maybe shouldn't be stacked with peps/ghrh (i.e. endo HGH) because the AAS starts to 'shut you down' rendering the endo HGH production reduced. Not sure if test would be the same thing since I use a TRT dose of test already. That's why I surmise Deca could be the culprit (don't ask me for the science behind that, I just know deca can shut down some serious stuff - ask me about the lethargy from Deca without taking any cabaser...).

 

[ValiantThor08]

tregar, here are some updates from my recent bloodwork:
11/2019 age 35 baseline never having used peps before and having done some random amount of exo GH 7 years ago: 180
02/02/20 after 2 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 2 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day: 406
03/05/20 after 3 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 5 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day + 4 weeks CJC-1295 DAC 5mg/week: 293
03/13/20 after 3 mos GHRP-6 100mcg 3x/day + 6 weeks of MK-677 25mg/day + 5 weeks CJC-1295 DAC 5mg/week: 240

Interesting points:
1. IGF of 406 was achieved before I even added CJC-1295. I thought CJC-1295 would add a lot.
2. March 10th I switched to Narrows Labs MK liquid. I definitely don't recommend it. The powder took time to reconstitute because I had to weigh 25mg and then let it soak in water for 20 minutes. Smelled rough, but clean and strong. The liquid version from Narrows smelled like mold and didn't taste as strong with a supposed dose of 25mg.
3. Why did I retest on 03/13/20? Notice I hadn't really changed any dosages aside from moving to the liquid MK, which I didn't think would be changing anything. I retested because the 293 from 03/05/20 seemed low and I hadn't workout that day. I was having a hunch that a workout morning (I always work out in the morning) might spike IGF that afternoon. With the result of 240 on 03/13/20, I guess not.
4. These results are still pretty good and this is a lot cheaper than running 3-4iu per day of HGH which I think is what would be needed to average this range.
5. I do have a hunch the fresh MK powder was very potent when new, and that is what got me to the 406 just two weeks after adding it. So I'll see how I feel after I switch back to the powder for a couple weeks and I may do bloods again.
6. On 03/05/20 I also did a full liver, kidney CBC etc. workup and everything was in range. So 3 months on GHRP-6 and almost 2 months on MK have no negative impact on those.
7. Very important one: On 02/10/20 I started 300Deca and 500primobolan per week (see total T in the 03/13 result below). I think there is a chance the deca primarily and possibly also the primo are reducing the pit function. Leads me to a thought that possibly exo HGH may be good to stack with AAS, but AAS maybe shouldn't be stacked with peps/ghrh (i.e. endo HGH) because the AAS starts to 'shut you down' rendering the endo HGH production reduced. Not sure if test would be the same thing since I use a TRT dose of test already. That's why I surmise Deca could be the culprit (don't ask me for the science behind that, I just know deca can shut down some serious stuff - ask me about the lethargy from Deca without taking any cabaser...).


View attachment 192169
View attachment 192170

Wonder if the liquid is underdosed.

 

[jdk35]

Wonder if the liquid is underdosed.

seems like it based on the weaker taste, but also it had a different smell that reminded me of mold. The powder smelled bad, but not like mold.

 

[ValiantThor08]

seems like it based on the weaker taste, but also it had a different smell that reminded me of mold. The powder smelled bad, but not like mold.

So you were stacking GHRP and MK?

 

[jdk35]

So you were stacking GHRP and MK?

Yes. They're both GHRP's so I realize they may not have any synergy. With the 406 result I got on Feb 2nd (pre any CJC), I have to think they at least paired well.
I still am stacking GHRP-6, MK, and now also with CJC-1295 2500mg 2x/week. Took weekend off restarted today. Although my damn gym is shut down starting today due to Covid. FML

 

[ValiantThor08]

Yes. They're both GHRP's so I realize they may not have any synergy. With the 406 result I got on Feb 2nd (pre any CJC), I have to think they at least paired well.
I still am stacking GHRP-6, MK, and now also with CJC-1295 2500mg 2x/week. Took weekend off restarted today. Although my damn gym is shut down starting today due to Covid. FML

I would say they paired very well. I'm on MK677, about 2 weeks in only have 247 igf 1 levels.

 

[ValiantThor08]

My results. I don't have before. This is 10 days on Behemothlabz MK677. Should I be disappointed. Turning 30 in April.

 

[jdk35]

My results. I don't have before. This is 10 days on Behemothlabz MK677. Should I be disappointed. Turning 30 in April. View attachment 192191

Really hard to say without seeing a baseline. I think things like diet (e.g. complex carbs or simple carbs?), amount of cardio, etc. can have a big difference on baseline, even at 30. Are you doing 25mg per day? powder, or liquid? does it taste like turpentine? It should.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Really hard to say without seeing a baseline. I think things like diet (e.g. complex carbs or simple carbs?), amount of cardio, etc. can have a big difference on baseline, even at 30. Are you doing 25mg per day? powder, or liquid? does it taste like turpentine? It should.

Liquid. Not sure what terpemtine tastes like. As of late I have done less running, more liss walking. More simple carbs than complex.

 

[jdk35]

Liquid. Not sure what terpemtine tastes like. As of late I have done less running, more liss walking. More simple carbs than complex.

Daily dosage in milligrams?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Daily dosage in milligrams?

Between 15 and 18mg in the evening

 

[jdk35]

Seems worth it to try 25mg. Most can handle that, depending on body weight. I’ve done up to 30mg in the morning empty stomach and just felt a little flushed / woozy but barely. I weigh 190 roughly 12 percent fat.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Seems worth it to try 25mg. Most can handle that, depending on body weight. I’ve done up to 30mg in the morning empty stomach and just felt a little flushed / woozy but barely. I weigh 190 roughly 12 percent fat.

I figured the dose of 15 would yield the same as 25 in regards to IGF.

 

[tregar]

2020 mk677 update:

2020 mk677 update - AnabolicMinds.com

Update 6/4/2020 been on mk677 for 3rd year (7 months only spring/summer every year), started in March, now is June (4 months later) doing great! will take an igf-1 test again soon and post after being on it for 5 months in July. This is not a typo, using keto diet, mk677, trt, CLA & betaine...

anabolicminds.com

hxxps://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/2020-mk677-update.317275/

 

[torrylanes]

Hello everyone, guys, I’m also studying bloodwork and will take an exam soon, now I’m studying materials together with https://writix.co.uk/write-my-dissertation-for-me this platform. She helps me get excellent grades without spending all my time studying.

 

[CroLifter]

This last run of mk ( 15 mg a day split into 2 doses) i am also on a low dose of test (less than 200mg a week) and i find that i dont need as much sleep. 6.5-7 hours is all i need now whereas normally i need 8-8.5.

I just dont feel like going to sleep. And i feel completely fine during the day.

 

[CroLifter]

Btw does anyone know what causes awesome pumps and fullness from mk677? Increased glycogen?

I mean i used to have way better pumps when i trained as a teen, nowadays naturally i cant even remotely get those pumps, but mk677 brings back those pumps or even surpasess them by a little bit.

I guess higher test and igf levels as a teen contributed to those big pumps i used to get that i cant get naturally anymore.

 

[txoc]

Is there a specific protocol to consistently test IGF-1? My limited research turned up that IGF-1 levels don't vary much throughout the day. That said, keto diets seem to impact IGF-1? I'm running keto myself and want to limit confounding as much as possible.

The plan to is test a 2 months on, 1 month off MK-677 (into perpetuity) plan, with a total of 5 tests- baseline, month 1 on, month 2 on, baseline after a month off, month 1 on.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Btw does anyone know what causes awesome pumps and fullness from mk677? Increased glycogen?

I mean i used to have way better pumps when i trained as a teen, nowadays naturally i cant even remotely get those pumps, but mk677 brings back those pumps or even surpasess them by a little bit.

I guess higher test and igf levels as a teen contributed to those big pumps i used to get that i cant get naturally anymore.

Increased IGF, nitrogen retention, and probably more glycogen retention.

 

[tregar]

For the time being, I no longer order bulk from China.

These coupons will save you guys lots of money:

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[CroLifter]

Increased IGF, nitrogen retention, and probably more glycogen retention.

Interesting, then all of that had to be substantially higher in my teens than now.

Because the pumps i used to get at 16, 18 years old were insane, on par with pumps i get while on mk now, no way i can recreate those pumps naturally now, they are just a mere shadow of what they were in the past.
No matter how many carbs i eat, how many sets i do, they are meh.

Its funny when i was a teen i thought it was a cliche when people used to say how when you are a teen its like you are on a light cycle.

Now having used "low doses" i can certainly say that is true.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Interesting, then all of that had to be substantially higher in my teens than now.

Because the pumps i used to get at 16, 18 years old were insane, on par with pumps i get while on mk now, no way i can recreate those pumps naturally now, they are just a mere shadow of what they were in the past.
No matter how many carbs i eat, how many sets i do, they are meh.

Its funny when i was a teen i thought it was a cliche when people used to say how when you are a teen its like you are on a light cycle.

Now having used "low doses" i can certainly say that is true.

IGF levels of a teen can be astronomically higher than say someone in their 30s and above. I know what you mean when you say the pumps were different at that age. I remember skin splitting painful pumps. Probably due to very high IGF.

 

[CroLifter]

IGF levels of a teen can be astronomically higher than say someone in their 30s and above. I know what you mean when you say the pumps were different at that age. I remember skin splitting painful pumps. Probably due to very high IGF.

Thank goodness for the modern science and PED's.

We can bring back those feelings even though our natural biology would like to prevent us from doing so

 

[txoc]

Just got blood done today, so should have my 1 month results to compare against baseline in the next few days. My libido is tanked on 25mg (I had gyno as a kid, so I may be more prolactin sensitive in general), so I'm going to take a month off, then restart it with along with b6 (for the prolactin) and cardarine.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Just got blood done today, so should have my 1 month results to compare against baseline in the next few days. My libido is tanked on 25mg (I had gyno as a kid, so I may be more prolactin sensitive in general), so I'm going to take a month off, then restart it with along with b6 (for the prolactin) and cardarine.

Use P5P rather than B6. It is the active form of B6, without the neuropathy side effects.

 

[txoc]

Results.

• I used MA labs MK-677.
• I started at 12.5mg at night for the first week and then moved up to 25mg at night, 7 days a week.
• I had prolactin issues by the end of it, but I may be especially sensitive to it.
• Weight start: 191.6 at 5 AM after peeing
• Weight 3 days after final dose: 192.6 at 5 AM after peeing

July 14: 188
August 12: 271

 

[ValiantThor08]

Results.

• I used MA labs MK-677.
• I started at 12.5mg at night for the first week and then moved up to 25mg at night, 7 days a week.
• I had prolactin issues by the end of it, but I may be especially sensitive to it.
• Weight start: 191.6 at 5 AM after peeing
• Weight 3 days after final dose: 192.6 at 5 AM after peeing

July 14: 188
August 12: 271View attachment 196739View attachment 196737

Man... My IGF on MK is lame. I must be broken lol. 144 on 25mg...

 

[txoc]

Man... My IGF on MK is lame. I must be broken lol. 144 on 25mg...

Bunk MK? Maybe your IGF-1 reeeeeally sucked at first?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Bunk MK? Maybe your IGF-1 reeeeeally sucked at first?

I used MA Research and another brand. Hunger went up, recovery better, and tingly extremities. I am guessing my IGF may of naturally sucked.

 

[Jinsun]

I used MA Research and another brand. Hunger went up, recovery better, and tingly extremities. I am guessing my IGF may of naturally sucked.

My igf baseline is 160 - 170. On 25mg Mk it rose to 245.

In the studies 25mg of Mk raised igf1 by 45% or something like that. That is exactly in line with my results.

 

[Jinsun]

mk wont raise ylur igf1 more then 50%. No way. So if your igf is at 400 after 25mg mk, that means your baseline is very high (ie. you are young).

 

[ValiantThor08]

mk wont raise ylur igf1 more then 50%. No way. So if your igf is at 400 after 25mg mk, that means your baseline is very high (ie. you are young).

So my baseline must be pretty low.

 

[Jinsun]

So my baseline must be pretty low.

How old are you?

 

[ValiantThor08]

How old are you?

30. So not too old.

 

[Jinsun]

144 sounds like baseline IGF1. Didn't you report 247 igf1 with 18mg's Mk?

 

[ValiantThor08]

144 sounds like baseline IGF1. Didn't you report 247 igf1 with 18mg's Mk?

No, 144 was 10 days on 25mg of MK677. I took 2 IGF tests while on MK, the other was around 130. I never took a baseline test.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Genetics wise, I got dealt a not so good hand. 18 years old I was between 110 and 115 pounds at 5'11"

 

[Jinsun]

ok. Looks like it's rGH for you. 2 iu's ed should multiply your igf1 by 3x - 4x times.

 

[tregar]

I just came off 6 months of mk677 at 25mg a day, (I've used it now for 3 years at only 6 months per year) and I'm beginning to display a preference for the normal state, I seem to be sleeping later into the morning with fewer sleep disruptions, and I feel "calmer" and not so hyperactive any more. I'm not so sure about this stuff anymore. I seem to prefer this tranquil state of mind. I do definately like the longer sleep, perhaps the mk677 was disturbing my sleep somehow. I know all of you are probably taken aback by what I just said.

 

[StarScream66]

These are the kinds of threads I miss from this forum. We used to get a lot more technical with our anabolics, similar to how people in this thread are testing their IGF/GH levels and so forth.

I was just reading the first page, and I noticed that the OP's link for the article he posted was broken, so I dug it back up from the wayback machine

The Beauty Of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677)

Here is another fascinating new study on the use of arginine/ornithine from 2010 by Zajac, Adam that shows greatly increased GH and igf-1 levels when taking both amino acids (you can find them combined together from many places like NOW or puritan's pride) right before a workout and at other times of the day:

https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2010/04000/Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx
hxxps://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2010/04000/Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx

Figure 1 from the study: there was a 200 point increase in igf-1 from 400 to 600 ng/ml during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout at 3 weeks

Figure 2 from the study: there was a 1.5 fold increase in growth hormone during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout at 3 weeks.

I was particularly interested in this study as arginine has always sort of been touted as a GH booster, but this study seems to confirm it - somewhat. Because of the names of the scientists who performed this study all look like they're Polish or somewhere in Eastern Europe I'm a bit reluctant to trust this study.

The supplemented group received 3000 mg of arginine and 2200 mg of ornithine twice daily for 3 weeks.

. I'm surprised that amount of arginine can be taken without a serious upset stomach and possibly having diarrhea.

I did a little searching around and couldn't find a study like this that replicated the results, and in fact found one study that refutes it.

Although one study showed that arginine infusion can heighten the GH response to exercise, no studies found that pre-exercise oral amino acid supplementation augments GH release. Further, no appropriately conducted scientific studies found that oral supplementation with amino acids, which are capable of inducing GH release, before strength training increases muscle mass and strength to a greater extent than strength training alone. The use of specific amino acids to stimulate GH release by athletes is not recommended.

Use of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes - PubMed

Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally. Many individuals consume amino acids before strength training workouts, believing this practice accentuates the exercise-induced GH release...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But if you can tolerate that amount, I would love to see blood work from just taking the arginine/ornithine combo and see what the results would be.

I downloaded the full study and skimmed it and here's what I found. Also, just a note for you guys pulling studies, I have a thread detailing how you can get the full text of studies where you can only find the abstract.

Helpful Guide: How to Download Full Unrestricted Journal Articles for Free - AnabolicMinds.com

In the name of science and free access to scientific articles we need to use, I've got a list of two free tools to help you download the full and free versions of full scientific articles. Method 1: Unpaywall - Unpaywall is a free browser extension that will check to see if it can find a free...

anabolicminds.com

Here's some quotes from the study which appear to debunk the arginine/ornithine thing.

Various factors including training status, sex, diet, time since last meal, and age appear to modify the GH response to amino acid and protein administration. The GH response to amino acid ingestion may be reduced in exercise-trained individuals. Consumption of a total of 2.4 g of arginine and lysine or 1.85 g of ornithine and tyrosine did not induce a statistically significant increase in serum GH concentrations over a 3-h period in young, male bodybuilders after an overnight fast.11 GH concentrations increased in five of the seven subjects, and a large intersubject variability in GH concentrations was noted. For the 3-h period after arginine and lysine administration, there was a 26-fold difference in integrated GH concentrations between subjects with the lowest and highest GH concentrations. This may be explained in part by the pulsatile release pattern of GH.

Here's a link to the full study if you want to give it a read:
https://mega.nz/file/Woc3QQpR#8JI_NLQnnSczcHV7QIOG22CSXrxdxK6KMjyngDB2qVw [PDF]

Great question scoooter.

Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/

Those on 3 grams of HMB daily gained several pounds of extra muscle (and gained much more strength) compared to placebo, great stuff, bulk supplements has it cheap, check out the 700 reviews at Amazon on it. Also, when taken before workouts, notice the very large increase in GH and igf-1 while working out:

1g HMB raises bodybuilders' growth hormone and IGF-1 levels:
http://www.ergo-log.com/1g-hmb-raises-bodybuilders-growth-hormone-and-IGF-1-levels.html

I've always been fascinated by HMB. The problem is that it's inventor, Steve Nissen, is a very sketchy character. He does everything in his power to try and promote HMB as a wonder compound that's like creatine, but the problem is that because he owns the patent, he charges exorbitant fees to anyone who wants to use it, and that's why it never took off. You need around 3-5g of HMB to see any effects, but the average dose in most supplements was around 1g because it was so expensive, no one could afford to put that amount in their products. I believe he even got astronauts to take HMB to try and prevent muscle breakdown aboard space shuttle missions, although I'll have to look that up to verify it.

If you've ever noticed the product Ensure, which is a drink for old people to try and prevent muscle breakdown, it has like 500mg of HMB and they tout in their commercials that as if it's some miracle that's going to pack pounds on them.

I remember when 1fast400 tried to get past the HMB patent by selling HMB bound to calcium called ca-HMB, but Nissen shut they down very fast.

If you really want to read the dirt on HMB, check out Anthony Robert's old article HMB - Time To Take Out The Trash.

There's also this old 20 year old study I came across basically saying HMB was bunk. β-Hydroxy-β-methylbutyrate (HMB) Supplementation and the promotion of muscle growth and strength

Having said all that, MuscleTech came out with an affordable HMB product called Clear Muscle which has a patented ingredient called "BetaTOR" which is Free acid beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate. I tried it as a free sample they sent me and felt great on it. My lifts were up, I don't remember all the details (this was years ago) but I thought it was a great product.

It was my opinion that HMB works, it's just not an affordable supplement that most people can take due to patent and licensing issues from Steve Nissen. But, like I said, he's a very sketchy character, so I wouldn't completely trust the single study showing 1g of HMB increased IGF/GH.

Anyway, just wanted to add my 2¢ to this very fascinating thread. Keep up the good work guys, and I hope to see more of this kind of stuff in the future.

 

[Jinsun]

I just came off 6 months of mk677 at 25mg a day, (I've used it now for 3 years at only 6 months per year) and I'm beginning to display a preference for the normal state, I seem to be sleeping later into the morning with fewer sleep disruptions, and I feel "calmer" and not so hyperactive any more. I'm not so sure about this stuff anymore. I seem to prefer this tranquil state of mind. I do definately like the longer sleep, perhaps the mk677 was disturbing my sleep somehow. I know all of you are probably taken aback by what I just said.

No, not at all. I felt the same on it and many others do to. It all depends on how sensitive you are to what's going on in your head. Ghrelin is a stress hormone no doubt. It's the same with ghrp2 or 6. Your in stress all the time. Not sure how anybody can really handle that.

 

[CroLifter]

I just came off 6 months of mk677 at 25mg a day, (I've used it now for 3 years at only 6 months per year) and I'm beginning to display a preference for the normal state, I seem to be sleeping later into the morning with fewer sleep disruptions, and I feel "calmer" and not so hyperactive any more. I'm not so sure about this stuff anymore. I seem to prefer this tranquil state of mind. I do definately like the longer sleep, perhaps the mk677 was disturbing my sleep somehow. I know all of you are probably taken aback by what I just said.

Not at all. Its a great supplement, but it is what it is. A staple anti aging prescription is still going to be injectable gh, natural to the human body,

I love mk for the pumps, fullness, synergy with aas and additional growth, fat loss, even sleep.

But it kills my libido completely and makes my thing down there feel like a dead piece of meat all day. And i mean, zeeero sensitivity, none.

Also makes me have hypoglycemic episodes thrpughput the day and i reckon it raises my blood sugar.

So i treat it like any other ped. I cycle it.

 

[Jinsun]

But it kills my libido completely and makes my thing down there feel like a dead piece of meat all day. And i mean, zeeero sensitivity, none.

Sounds like a prolactin issue.

 

[Carnivorecon]

Genetics wise, I got dealt a not so good hand. 18 years old I was between 110 and 115 pounds at 5'11"

You've played that hand very well, from looking at avatar!

 

[CroLifter]

Sounds like a prolactin issue.

Idk. I thought it was returning after I stopped it but no. Also taking inhibit p but no effect.

Perhaps sth got damaged permanently since the 1st cycle and mk is exacerbating it.

Even before I touched gear I had no libido but sensitivity seems to have vanished after starting to dabble.

I think I may have heard sth about high doses of androgen doing sth to the nerve endings... Maybe not but I feel like I heard sth like that.

Or it could just be the obscene levels of prolactin.

 

[Jinsun]

Idk. I thought it was returning after I stopped it but no. Also taking inhibit p but no effect.

Perhaps sth got damaged permanently since the 1st cycle and mk is exacerbating it.

Even before I touched gear I had no libido but sensitivity seems to have vanished after starting to dabble.

I think I may have heard sth about high doses of androgen doing sth to the nerve endings... Maybe not but I feel like I heard sth like that.

Or it could just be the obscene levels of prolactin.

Mk really raises prolactin. Take caber or something.

Sensitivity is usually down to a bad estrogen/dht ration. I remember having no sensitivity in june, when I was experimenting with tamox and tbol with dbol. It was like it wasnt even my dick. Dick tissue has (obviously) dht receptors and e2 receptors, but it's the dht that determines flacid penis size and sensitivity. Maybe also e2, idk.

Also, again, prolactin is the libido killer.

Low e2 also negatively impacts sexual desire.

There is nothing permanently damaged. Your okay.

 

[ValiantThor08]

You've played that hand very well, from looking at avatar!

it took getting picked on to take lifting seriously. Getting made fun of ended up being a good thing for me xD

 

[ValiantThor08]

Mk really raises prolactin. Take caber or something.

Sensitivity is usually down to a bad estrogen/dht ration. I remember having no sensitivity in june, when I was experimenting with tamox and tbol with dbol. It was like it wasnt even my dick. Dick tissue has (obviously) dht receptors and e2 receptors, but it's the dht that determines flacid penis size and sensitivity. Maybe also e2, idk.

Also, again, prolactin is the libido killer.

Low e2 also negatively impacts sexual desire.

There is nothing permanently damaged. Your okay.

Telling you P5P is great on MK. I have a great libido when I take P5P and MK.