ssbackwards
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To Whacked
Sup SS
1) "Uptake into liver and muscle are first priority" That was way oversimplified IMHO. This this deprends on a wide array of other related variables such as current fed/fasted state, exercised/unexercised state, glycogen storage capacity, genetic predisposition/programming for fat accumulation, k/cal intake, other supplements/drugs being used along with a whole host of other factors.
Yes this depends on a variety of issues. If liver and muscle glycogen are full storage in adipocytes occur. This is dependant on malonyl coa levels in the liver, along with ACC. These are factors that are needed to blunt lipolysis and aid in storage. If in a depleted state, liver and muscle get glucose first. liver to support blood glucose levels, muscle to aid in contraction and usage. below shows difference in overfeeding in obese vs non obese
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/1/78.full.pdf
2) "Storage is temporary. Hyperplasia is permanent." Storage IS temporary (just as it is in the muscles and liver), however, if/when this "energy" is not needed, it will be stored permanently (fat tissue = FAT!); hence the argument
This point is true, but this is why these products on a lower carb diet induces greater fat loss, and makes bulking easier by not inducing adipogenesis, note the question below
3) "These products reduce fat cell droplet size, and reduce adipogenesis" Please provide pubmed or other respectable cites to validate this claim as again, it is not so straight forward; especially IF other complicating criteria as mentioned above are present.
below talks about intra cellular triglycerides.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf062912b
4) "When uptake into fat cells happen one of 2 things occur storage or adipogenesis". Couldn't have said it better myself; hence my point of all of this.
the issue is also that the storage isnt in the form of glucose, its converted to triglycerides. Now carbohydrates contribute very little to de novo lipogenesis under normal circumstances... note below
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN87_02/S0007114502000454a.pdf&code=cf240bd9836aba8183c2e95bce65491e
5) "There is increased burning due to AMPk activation". This is NOT a direct activity of these substances but INDIRECT - it is only true downstream "if" the GDA's were even able to succesfully shuttle the glucose into the myocytes (which will only occur in the proper environment as described above). Then, does such a secondary reaction take place unless you are referring to non-GDA specific substances that are added to some of these blends (which would necessitate a whole new discussion as these are unrelated to this particular topic).
in the below study, this ingredient lowers insulin induced rise in AKT which is needed to increase adipogenesis. It speaks of MAPK pathway, and also speaks of ALA in high doses with the activation. Granted indirect, if it were a direct effect it would be labeled as a drug in most cases.
http://endo.endojournals.org/content/149/1/358.full.pdf
Again, please also include ingredient-specific reseach/studies because there is a myriad of different substances/agents used in these GDA blends.
Sup SS
1) "Uptake into liver and muscle are first priority" That was way oversimplified IMHO. This this deprends on a wide array of other related variables such as current fed/fasted state, exercised/unexercised state, glycogen storage capacity, genetic predisposition/programming for fat accumulation, k/cal intake, other supplements/drugs being used along with a whole host of other factors.
Yes this depends on a variety of issues. If liver and muscle glycogen are full storage in adipocytes occur. This is dependant on malonyl coa levels in the liver, along with ACC. These are factors that are needed to blunt lipolysis and aid in storage. If in a depleted state, liver and muscle get glucose first. liver to support blood glucose levels, muscle to aid in contraction and usage. below shows difference in overfeeding in obese vs non obese
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/1/78.full.pdf
2) "Storage is temporary. Hyperplasia is permanent." Storage IS temporary (just as it is in the muscles and liver), however, if/when this "energy" is not needed, it will be stored permanently (fat tissue = FAT!); hence the argument
This point is true, but this is why these products on a lower carb diet induces greater fat loss, and makes bulking easier by not inducing adipogenesis, note the question below
3) "These products reduce fat cell droplet size, and reduce adipogenesis" Please provide pubmed or other respectable cites to validate this claim as again, it is not so straight forward; especially IF other complicating criteria as mentioned above are present.
below talks about intra cellular triglycerides.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf062912b
4) "When uptake into fat cells happen one of 2 things occur storage or adipogenesis". Couldn't have said it better myself; hence my point of all of this.
the issue is also that the storage isnt in the form of glucose, its converted to triglycerides. Now carbohydrates contribute very little to de novo lipogenesis under normal circumstances... note below
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN87_02/S0007114502000454a.pdf&code=cf240bd9836aba8183c2e95bce65491e
5) "There is increased burning due to AMPk activation". This is NOT a direct activity of these substances but INDIRECT - it is only true downstream "if" the GDA's were even able to succesfully shuttle the glucose into the myocytes (which will only occur in the proper environment as described above). Then, does such a secondary reaction take place unless you are referring to non-GDA specific substances that are added to some of these blends (which would necessitate a whole new discussion as these are unrelated to this particular topic).
in the below study, this ingredient lowers insulin induced rise in AKT which is needed to increase adipogenesis. It speaks of MAPK pathway, and also speaks of ALA in high doses with the activation. Granted indirect, if it were a direct effect it would be labeled as a drug in most cases.
http://endo.endojournals.org/content/149/1/358.full.pdf
Again, please also include ingredient-specific reseach/studies because there is a myriad of different substances/agents used in these GDA blends.
