BCAA's a must or hype?

[LovingtoLift]

30-35 bucks on BCAA's a month is a smart investment. Many great flavors too. I am going to go sip on some Purple Wraath now.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I believe in them, otherwise I wouldn't be using my EAA/intracarb drink.

I believed in them before, but mostly just for recovery until I started doing a lot of digging over the last year. Thats what formed by opinion that
these things (BCAAs) are not protein'ish, they are more like a supplement. I'm doing an entire website on BCAA research because some people
cannon interpret research properly...there is also trials that say BCAAs can increase ammonia production at high doses, so you have to be able to
dig and figure out why the negative studies produced no results also. I use to want to add BCAAs just because I didn't want to give my body more
food/protein to digest.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

30-35 bucks on BCAA's a month is a smart investment. Many great flavors too. I am going to go sip on some Purple Wraath now.

Think about how many BS extracts of blablabla come out with one rat study in Siberia and the product is like $50 for 30 day supply, and everyone is all over it. Its like you can spend all that "dice roll" money on increasing your BCAA intake. I think people just can't wrap their head around something that is in everything they eat helping them with "gainz." I rem a long time ago, I took HMB at like 6g a day, that worked well for me. It didn't give me pumps or recovery, but it made my muscle look more "diesel." Like how those pros walk around looking like they workout and eat every 20 min.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I don't think this is 100 percent correct. I think there's something to a quick spike of bcaas post. There's more to bcaas than as a bolus while fasted. Scivations recent study is interesting.

Is that the one where they also co-injested Citrulline and Glutamine along with the BCAAs, and *didn't* use a regular 'ole cheap Whey shake as a control?

 

[Jiigzz]

Its says consuming essential aminos (not protein) is more anaboliv if it contains a higher ratio of leucine. So how is eating more protein going to increase the ratio of leucine to essential aminos?? It also states in there that there is an anabolic difference between consuming essential and non-essential aminos vesus just essential ones. What I am saying is this is why people should look at BCAAs as a supplement. Not something that you swap out in terms of daily required protein intake per kg.

This study found a ratio of like 2:1 for EAA to leucine is best. Protein is what?? 10-15% leucine at the most and thats EAA and non-essential. Not only did it find it best it says less that that ratio (< ~ 48% leucine) isnt anabolic in older ppl.

That study only emphasizes the importance of leucine.

Here's a good one: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1970.short

Essential amino acids (EAA) stimulate skeletal muscle protein synthesis (MPS) in humans. Leucine may have a greater stimulatory effect on MPS than other EAA and/or decrease muscle protein breakdown (MPB). To determine the effect of 2 different leucine concentrations on muscle protein turnover and associated signaling, young men (n = 6) and women (n = 8) ingested 10 g EAA in 1 of 2 groups: composition typical of high quality proteins (CTRL; 1.8 g leucine) or increased leucine concentration (LEU; 3.5 g leucine). Participants were studied for 180 min postingestion. Fractional synthetic rate and leg phenylalanine and leucine kinetics were assessed on muscle biopsies using stable isotopic techniques. Signaling was determined by immunoblotting. Arterial leucine concentration and delivery to the leg increased in both groups and was significantly higher in LEU than in CTRL; however, transport into the muscle and intracellular availability did not differ between groups. MPS increased similarly in both groups 60 min postingestion. MPB decreased at 60 min only in LEU, but net muscle protein balance improved similarly. Components of mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling were improved in LEU, but no changes were observed in ubiquitin-proteasome system signaling. Changes in light chain 3 and mTOR association with Unc-51-like kinase 1 indicate autophagy decreased more in LEU. We conclude that in 10 g of EAA, the leucine content typical of high quality proteins (~1.8 g) is sufficient to induce a maximal skeletal muscle protein anabolic response in young adults, but leucine may play a role in autophagy regulation.

And from within the paper:

Increases in MPS following mixed EAA or leucine ingestion are associated with enhanced translation initiation via activation of mTORC1 and downstream targets ribosomal S6 kinase 1 (S6K1) and eukaryotic initiation factor 4E binding protein 1 (4E-BP1) (7,13,14). Upstream of mTOR, Akt/protein kinase B can directly activate mTOR through phosphorylation (15) or indirectly by phosphorylating (and inhibiting) tuberous sclerosis
complex 2 (16,17), while further downstream, S6K1 signals to eukaryotic elongation factor 2 (eEF2) to enhance translation
elongation (18). The mTORC1 pathway is a major contributor to the anabolic response following EAA or leucine ingestion,
although multiple pathways are involved.

And more:

differing amounts of EAA (6.7 vs. 15 g) and leucine content (1.72 vs. 2.79 g) indicate the higher amount of EAA, and thus higher leucine, does improve protein synthesis and overall net protein balance compared with a lower dose

These findings are pretty consistent, but one thing they do not say is that BCAA alone is enough to BUILD muscle once MPS has been triggered. It is just activating the processes required for that component to occur. So the studies you are citing are evidence that adding the required amount of Leucine to protein would be enough to trigger MPS.

More from another study found here: http://jap.physiology.org/content/107/3/987

Several studies examining the consumption of whole proteins have found that the type of protein, and not simply its amino acid composition, can differentially modulate the anabolic response

The rise in EAA (Fig. 3A), BCAA (data not shown), and leucine (Fig. 3B) was of greater amplitude and considerably more rapid following whey consumption compared with soy. These differences in the rate of EAA appearance in the circulation may be especially important to the differential stimulation of MPS we observed after whey or soy ingestion at rest and following resistance exercise. Recent work has demonstrated that supplementing soy protein with BCAA (leucine, isoleucine, and valine) is required to rescue its anabolic effect in elderly and clinical populations

In the above study, they compared whey to casein to soy for MPS and found that whey out performed soy (amongst other things) but that adding Leucine to Soy increased its anabolic potential, why? Because whey is naturally high in leucine vs soy.

So the arguments are there for more leucine = greater MPS (up to threshold) but not that more BCAAs enhance muscle when not fed enough protein.

 

[Jiigzz]

I believed in them before, but mostly just for recovery until I started doing a lot of digging over the last year. Thats what formed by opinion that
these things (BCAAs) are not protein'ish, they are more like a supplement. I'm doing an entire website on BCAA research because some people
cannon interpret research properly...there is also trials that say BCAAs can increase ammonia production at high doses, so you have to be able to
dig and figure out why the negative studies produced no results also. I use to want to add BCAAs just because I didn't want to give my body more
food/protein to digest.

If the comment of not being able to read research properly is aimed at me, you have no idea how long I have studied nutrition for LOL. Some of what you are saying goes against basic nutrition, so I'm not sure how much you truly understand of what you are reading, or if you are interpreting the right results from the cited papers.

Usually its the latter, because even authors draw incorrect conclusions from their findings - case and point is fat in the diet in relation to obesity. For years that research constantly pointed as fat being the cause for obesity, only now are we beginning to understand the importance of total calorie intake in relation to needs in terms of weight management.

 

[smith_69]

end of the day, if you are on a certain diet and exercising taking BCAA will assist with replenishing, but will aid in recovery. We can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Failure to obtain enough of even 1 of the 10 essential amino acids, those that we cannot make, results in degradation of the body's proteins.

The 20 amino acids that are found within proteins convey a vast array of chemical versatility. The folding process of an amino acid, Now that is the real question and doesn't really pertain to some of this, but had to add it ;o)

 

[Jiigzz]

In short, BCAAs serve a purpose, but that purpose should not be to replace total protein. That's pretty much the point of what I'm saying.

Edit: Should also add that adding Leucine to a leucine poor meal will increase MPS, so if your goal is to maximise protein synthesis, only leucine is needed when used in conjunction with another protein source.

 

[smith_69]

In short, BCAAs serve a purpose, but that purpose should not be to replace total protein. That's pretty much the point of what I'm saying.

absolutely and I agree. believe all have some valid points here

 

[Ameyer9]

But are they oligopeptide BCAA's?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

That study only emphasizes the importance of leucine.

Here's a good one: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1970.short



And from within the paper:

Increases in MPS following mixed EAA or leucine ingestion are associated with enhanced translation initiation via activation of mTORC1 and downstream targets ribosomal S6 kinase 1 (S6K1) and eukaryotic initiation factor 4E binding protein 1 (4E-BP1) (7,13,14). Upstream of mTOR, Akt/protein kinase B can directly activate mTOR through phosphorylation (15) or indirectly by phosphorylating (and inhibiting) tuberous sclerosis
complex 2 (16,17), while further downstream, S6K1 signals to eukaryotic elongation factor 2 (eEF2) to enhance translation
elongation (18). The mTORC1 pathway is a major contributor to the anabolic response following EAA or leucine ingestion,
although multiple pathways are involved.

And more:



These findings are pretty consistent, but one thing they do not say is that BCAA alone is enough to BUILD muscle once MPS has been triggered. It is just activating the processes required for that component to occur. So the studies you are citing are evidence that adding the required amount of Leucine to protein would be enough to trigger MPS.

More from another study found here: http://jap.physiology.org/content/107/3/987





In the above study, they compared whey to casein to soy for MPS and found that whey out performed soy (amongst other things) but that adding Leucine to Soy increased its anabolic potential, why? Because whey is naturally high in leucine vs soy.

So the arguments are there for more leucine = greater MPS (up to threshold) but not that more BCAAs enhance muscle when not fed enough protein.

No it emphasis the importance of leucine in ratio to total essential aminos ingested per dose. It also studied EAA versus EAAs and non-EEAs mixed.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

In short, BCAAs serve a purpose, but that purpose should not be to replace total protein. That's pretty much the point of what I'm saying.

Exactly what I said basically.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

If the comment of not being able to read research properly is aimed at me, you have no idea how long I have studied nutrition for LOL. Some of what you are saying goes against basic nutrition, so I'm not sure how much you truly understand of what you are reading, or if you are interpreting the right results from the cited papers.

Usually its the latter, because even authors draw incorrect conclusions from their findings - case and point is fat in the diet in relation to obesity. For years that research constantly pointed as fat being the cause for obesity, only now are we beginning to understand the importance of total calorie intake in relation to needs in terms of weight management.

I didnt say your name. I would have said your name. I dont pay attention to who post what. I just reply. Who would assume only fat intake is responsible for obesity? Anyway another story

 

[Chuck Diesel]

My point was BCAAs should be looked at as a supplement that serves a purpose. The world seems to view BCAAs as a proposed protein alternative.

 

[Jiigzz]

I didnt say your name. I would have said your name. I dont pay attention to who post what. I just reply. Who would assume only fat intake is responsible for obesity? Anyway another story

Just thought I would ask considering its been me mostly who has been bugging you

A lot of research pointed the finger at that in the early 1990's.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Just thought I would ask considering its been me mostly who has been bugging you

A lot of research pointed the finger at that in the early 1990's.

Nah unless you were the one like "holy bleep tha bleep ur wrong..just eat more protein"

 

[LovingtoLift]

Is Whey Protein necessary if you use BCAA's during a workout? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Is Whey Protein necessary if you use BCAA's during a workout? What are your thoughts on this?

Total protein intake is necessary at about or above .8g/kg of bodyweight dnt cout free aminos in there. So for instance Ive never probably have taken over 20 scoops of whey in my life. I do take 1/2 scoop of pea protein with an apple at 10am eveyday. So you gotta get your protein from somewhere. Id like to see how much whey actually makes it to aminos which is only measured by nitrogen after ingestion. I swear I might crap out 30% or more of the whey I drink. I think 2 cups of milk does more for me

 

[JudoJosh]

I'm doing an entire website on BCAA research because some people
cannon interpret research properly...

:/ ..

 

[smith_69]

Total protein intake is necessary at about or above .8g/kg of bodyweight dnt cout free aminos in there. So for instance Ive never probably have taken over 20 scoops of whey in my life. I do take 1/2 scoop of pea protein with an apple at 10am eveyday. So you gotta get your protein from somewhere. Id like to see how much whey actually makes it to aminos which is only measured by nitrogen after ingestion. I swear I might crap out 30% or more of the whey I drink. I think 2 cups of milk does more for me

its an interesting topic- but this will open another avenue here. first consuming anymore than 20-25 grams of whey; which we all know or should know is not the fasts digestive protein, is overkill.
secondly, depending on how the whey is derived; milk or cheese. This can then lead to question is the person lactose intolerant? head scratching lol

btw- your site is down, cant get on it

 

[thebigt]

geez, reading this thread has given me a headache...i'm going to be trying GET DIESEL DIESELADE [BCAA] SOON, I will get back to you!!!

 

[smith_69]

geez, reading this thread has given me a headache...i'm going to be trying GET DIESEL DIESELADE [BCAA] SOON, I will get back to you!!!

I cant get on the site- lol been trying and was going to do the samething

 

[thebigt]

I cant get on the site- lol been trying and was going to do the samething

pm Chuck Diesel...

 

[smith_69]

just looked on the company promotion- theres another link- brought me right to it-

http://www.fefifo.com/DIESELADE-by-GET-DIESEL--Naturally-flavored-BCAA_p_178661.html

 

[thebigt]

just looked on the company promotion- theres another link- brought me right to it-

http://www.fefifo.com/DIESELADE-by-GET-DIESEL--Naturally-flavored-BCAA_p_178661.html

he has a 10% code..look into his DIESELADE thread...I think it is AM10

 

[smith_69]

yes- just placed

appreciate it bro

 

[thebigt]

yes- just placed

appreciate it bro

yup..im a fan of diesel products!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

That study only emphasizes the importance of leucine.

Here's a good one: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1970.short



And from within the paper:



No it emphasis the importance of leucine in ratio to total essential aminos ingested per dose. It also studied EAA versus EAAs and non-EEAs mixed.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/6/1103.short

These studies demonstrate that peak activation but not duration of MPS is proportional to the Leu content of a meal.

Also important: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.2012.228833/full

Adding leucine or a mixture of EAAs without leucine to a suboptimal dose of whey is as effective as 25 g whey at stimulating fed rates of MPS; however, 25 g of whey is better suited to increase resistance exercise-induced muscle anabolism.

This above paper deserves a good read through a few times.

 

[squirtguns89]

No. And thats the point of what I'm saying. If an strength traine requires more than a runner who requires more than a sedentary person, how would stopping at the recommendation of stopping at the level required for sedentary be beneficial?

You cant build muscle without substrate, so you can spike MPS all you like. Think of MPS like motivating a builder. If you have enough wood (protein) then motivating a builder will get him building something, if you dont, well you've motivated him but theres nothing for him to build.

If lower works for you then go crazy, its about collectives rather than individuals. But MPS and BCAAs alone are not enough to build muscle

my post was a bit drawn out so let me clarify. by me saying "in our demographic", I meant for those of us that eat a lot of protein, not minimum amounts. so the argument wasnt intended to be about protein amount vs protein amount. more so why would high protein amount make free form bcaas redundant (not implying that is/isnt your opinion). as i said, we all know bolus amounts of free form aminos have higher effects in various ways. so with that being said, if we already have complete protein chains to pull aminos from (in regards to a high protein diet), bcaas are free to maximize whatever pathways they are designed to do.

i personally consider bcaas use to be for maximizing optimal scenarios vs something i consider near essential to use. but for the the time i spend in the gym, maximizing is the name of the game for something not overly expensive. and has evidence regarding mps and other scenarios that are pretty well studied on top of that, idk how theyd be a waste for that point alone (again not implying thats your stance obviously). maybe not the best bang for your buck? idk..we are talking about supplements so lets all keep that in context here.

 

[thebigt]

as far as I can tell no 'STUDY' has said they are harmful...my advice---try them for yourself, if you get something from them then BOOM BABY...if not move on to the next thing!!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

my post was a bit drawn out so let me clarify. by me saying "in our demographic", I meant for those of us that eat a lot of protein, not minimum amounts. so the argument wasnt intended to be about protein amount vs protein amount. more so why would high protein amount make free form bcaas redundant (not implying that is/isnt your opinion). as i said, we all know bolus amounts of free form aminos have higher effects in various ways. so with that being said, if we already have complete protein chains to pull aminos from (in regards to a high protein diet), bcaas are free to maximize whatever pathways they are designed to do.

i personally consider bcaas use to be for maximizing optimal scenarios vs something i consider near essential to use. but for the the time i spend in the gym, maximizing is the name of the game for something not overly expensive. and has evidence regarding mps and other scenarios that are pretty well studied on top of that, idk how theyd be a waste for that point alone (again not implying thats your stance obviously). maybe not the best bang for your buck? idk..we are talking about supplements so lets all keep that in context here.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I personally think there is carry over for people who have higher protein intakes in terms of circulating free form aminos - Brad Schoenfeld and Alan Aragons study touches on this subject (titled Nutrient timing revisited), however I would say this applies to people as a group, not individually. Generally speaking, the gold nugget in terms of mTOR activation is leucine, and this has been demonstrated time and again with varying amounts of the Leucine in combination with other aminos of equal or similar amounts - so we know that when mTOR activation is mentioned, the dose of Leucine is the focus of that research/ paper rather than the other aminos (generally speaking).

So if we take the study I posted above, (i am more than happy to send the paper to those interested if access is restricted), they found these points:

• We report that a suboptimal dose of whey protein (6.25 g) supplemented with either leucine or a mixture of EAAs without leucine stimulates MPS similar to 25 g of whey protein under resting conditions; however, only 25 g of whey sustains exercise-induced rates of MPS.
• Adding leucine or a mixture of EAAs without leucine to a suboptimal dose of whey is as effective as 25 g whey at stimulating fed rates of MPS; however, 25 g of whey is better suited to increase resistance exercise-induced muscle anabolism.

And more here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16777941

This effect was due only to increased leucine availability because only plasma free leucine concentration significantly differed between the control and leucine-supplemented groups. We conclude that leucine supplementation during feeding improves muscle protein synthesis in the elderly independently of an overall increase of other amino acids. Whether increasing leucine intake in old people may limit muscle protein loss during ageing remains to be determined.

Bear in mind I am only quoting abstracts, the real answers lie within the papers themselves as the results and discussion are worthwhile critiquing.

I do think that BCAAs hold value in the market, and I am excited to see Scivations study on the topic. The answer is not black and white as discussed before and all things have a time and place -

enhanced recovery
stimulating MPS
fuel substrate
decreased muscle breakdown
etc.

Everything has a context and place.

 

[Jiigzz]

as far as I can tell no 'STUDY' has said they are harmful...my advice---try them for yourself, if you get something from them then BOOM BABY...if not move on to the next thing!!!!

You cant argue with this! Exactly.

Use them if you like them, don't if you don't.

 

[smith_69]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I personally think there is carry over for people who have higher protein intakes in terms of circulating free form aminos - Brad Schoenfeld and Alan Aragons study touches on this subject (titled Nutrient timing revisited), however I would say this applies to people as a group, not individually. Generally speaking, the gold nugget in terms of mTOR activation is leucine, and this has been demonstrated time and again with varying amounts of the Leucine in combination with other aminos of equal or similar amounts - so we know that when mTOR activation is mentioned, the dose of Leucine is the focus of that research/ paper rather than the other aminos (generally speaking).

So if we take the study I posted above, (i am more than happy to send the paper to those interested if access is restricted), they found these points:

• We report that a suboptimal dose of whey protein (6.25 g) supplemented with either leucine or a mixture of EAAs without leucine stimulates MPS similar to 25 g of whey protein under resting conditions; however, only 25 g of whey sustains exercise-induced rates of MPS.
• Adding leucine or a mixture of EAAs without leucine to a suboptimal dose of whey is as effective as 25 g whey at stimulating fed rates of MPS; however, 25 g of whey is better suited to increase resistance exercise-induced muscle anabolism.

And more here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16777941



Bear in mind I am only quoting abstracts, the real answers lie within the papers themselves as the results and discussion are worthwhile critiquing.

I do think that BCAAs hold value in the market, and I am excited to see Scivations study on the topic. The answer is not black and white as discussed before and all things have a time and place -

enhanced recovery
stimulating MPS
fuel substrate
decreased muscle breakdown
etc.

Everything has a context and place.

nice read bro- and this is one that will be going on for awhile. studies to prove positives and neg use of bcaa's. as i mentioned above, the more interesting note to consider is the folding process. well interesting to some.

in my use, i dont believe this was a placebo, as i did notice an increase in endurance. as far as the doms, i cant remember how much it helped. i remember the endurance because i was doing more back routines for width and strength. cant say that for 30 days in a row it was a placebo.

i have some of the new DIESELADE coming and as i am not a sponsor and no ties to diesel at all, I am going to log it.

in any event, i have to say, this has been a good back n forth with everyone who was involved. as i said before when i joined, i have yet to get this type of debate on any other forum.

good stuff fellas

smitty

 

[thebigt]

nice read bro- and this is one that will be going on for awhile. studies to prove positives and neg use of bcaa's. as i mentioned above, the more interesting note to consider is the folding process. well interesting to some.

in my use, i dont believe this was a placebo, as i did notice an increase in endurance. as far as the doms, i cant remember how much it helped. i remember the endurance because i was doing more back routines for width and strength. cant say that for 30 days in a row it was a placebo.

i have some of the new DIESELADE coming and as i am not a sponsor and no ties to diesel at all, I am going to log it.

in any event, i have to say, this has been a good back n forth with everyone who was involved. as i said before when i joined, i have yet to get this type of debate on any other forum.

good stuff fellas

smitty

nice post...hope you enjoy dieselade!!!

btw-AM Is a cut above the other forums, glad to have you here!!!

 

[1Fast400]

Should I join the conversation lol

 

[Chuck Diesel]

in any event, i have to say, this has been a good back n forth with everyone who was involved. as i said before when i joined, i have yet to get this type of debate on any other forum.

good stuff fellas

smitty

Its def a cut throat environment but a learning environment. Only the strong survive on AM

 

[Jiigzz]

Should I join the conversation lol

Definitely. You'll have some unique insights I'd like to hear about

 

[thebigt]

Definitely. You'll have some unique insights I'd like to hear about

I think he will be pro use of bcaa's,:thumbsup:

 

[Rocket3015]

nice read bro- and this is one that will be going on for awhile. studies to prove positives and neg use of bcaa's. as i mentioned above, the more interesting note to consider is the folding process. well interesting to some.

in my use, i dont believe this was a placebo, as i did notice an increase in endurance. as far as the doms, i cant remember how much it helped. i remember the endurance because i was doing more back routines for width and strength. cant say that for 30 days in a row it was a placebo.

i have some of the new DIESELADE coming and as i am not a sponsor and no ties to diesel at all, I am going to log it.

in any event, i have to say, this has been a good back n forth with everyone who was involved. as i said before when i joined, i have yet to get this type of debate on any other forum.

good stuff fellas

smitty

I will be Following your DIESELADE log for sure, I am anxious to hear what you think !

 

[squirtguns89]

Should I join the conversation lol

thoughts and/or opinions on bcaa use/benefits while on a caloric maintenance/surplus in conjunction with a relatively high protein diet?

 

[1Fast400]

The only study looking at that nobody wants to believe. I can't get it published because "JYM" was lead author on it. Good luck on him wanting to get that paper to publication, it was only presented. Showed considerable muscle gain over 8 weeks compared to carbs or protein. Did a follow up study, same protocol, but highly restrictive calories. Xtend group was to build 1lb of muscle in a big calorie deficit. We do lots of medical data. People don't know that Scivation has turned more into medical company vs a supplement company. We've found lots of uses for BCAA's in all types of disease cases. To me there is no doubt there is value. Often times products are under dosed, so consumers don't see value when taking them. That's why I like Xtend Perform that releases in another 2 weeks. You could be on the fence about BCAA's, but Peak 02 is enough reason to buy

 

[The_Old_Guy]

RE: Dudgeon, WD; Page Kelly, E; Scheett TP. "In a single-blind, matched group design: branched-chain amino acid supplementation and resistance training maintains lean body mass during a caloric restricted diet." Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition (2016) 13:1.

Xtend also has Citrulline -

Ventura, G., et al. "Effect of Citrulline on muscle functions during moderate dietary restriction in healthy adult rats." Amino acids 45.5 (2013): 1123-1131.

A better study would put "just" Leucine/Iso-Leucine/Valine up against Whey. Or, if they want to use Xtend, add Citrulline to the Whey.

 

[JudoJosh]

And here comes the McCandles bullsh!t train

 

[1Fast400]

And here comes the McCandles bullsh!t train

What?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

And here comes the McCandles bullsh!t train

Hes saying probably how you dont seem to have anything to say about any BCAA except Xtend. Have you used other brands. Specifically the ones you sell at Nutraplanet? I asked do you have a financial interest in Xtend/Scivation previously in this thread because you promote Xtend pretty passive aggressively.

Also Scivation is a big enough company to just re-do the study w same parameters if Stompani doesnt want his name on a paper showing another product is effective bc of his Jym line. Its really the same thing as you not discussing any Bcaa but Xtend.

Also why does your signature not say you are an owner of NP? You dont like signitures in general?

 

[Rushie]

I agree but I'm not sure thats what he's saying. I can easily find studies that show BCAA's do nothing. In fact, I used to post them along with the glutamine studies. I have no problem with anyone believing that. I have found that for me, when I was 32 they did absolutely nothing. At 42, they help with recovery and DOMS and if you told me at 32 that would happen, I would say you're full of ****

Thank you for being so reasonable and not paralyzed by over-analysis. I would rep you but I can't find a study that would confirm that repping someone does any good to that person.

 

[1Fast400]

Hes saying probably how you dont seem to have anything to say about any BCAA except Xtend. Have you used other brands. Specifically the ones you sell at Nutraplanet? I asked do you have a financial interest in Xtend/Scivation previously in this thread because you promote Xtend pretty passive aggressively.

I own Scivation.

Also Scivation is a big enough company to just re-do the study w same parameters if Stompani doesnt want his name on a paper showing another product is effective bc of his Jym line. Its really the same thing as you not discussing any Bcaa but Xtend.

I'm running around 5-6 studies this year, including a human cancer trial and Angelman's syndrome. There are no plans to run another xtend study in the next 18 months.

Also why does your signature not say you are an owner of NP? You dont like signitures in general?

I have a financial interest in NP but do nothing operationally with the company. People contacting me would get little value in regards to that. I'm not promoting NP nor am I answering anything along those lines. I'll list whatever the mods want me to list. I'm not here to service NP stuff as I have nothing to do with it. It was brought up before that NP sponsors here but not Scivation, so there could be issues with me having it in my sig

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Theres a crap load of published leucine and BCAA studies. Whats the deal with constantly talking about the unpublished Scivation study.

If ppl dont know its one where thry compared like 80g proetein supplement a day to 40g bcaas supplement a day. Not bcaas. Sorry Xtend supplying 40g bcaas a day. Anyway Xtend group loss bodyfat and gain muscle at higher rate than the group that supplemented w protein. The amounts might not be specific but the ratio between the two groups is abt correct.

Good study....but its like constanty saying only Aquafina was shown to reduce thirst

 

[1Fast400]

Theres a crap load of published leucine and BCAA studies. Whats the deal with constantly talking about the unpublished Scivation study.

If ppl dont know its one where thry compared like 80g proetein supplement a day to 40g bcaas supplement a day. Not bcaas. Sorry Xtend supplying 40g bcaas a day. Anyway Xtend group loss bodyfat and gain muscle at higher rate than the group that supplemented w protein. The amounts might not be specific but the ratio between the two groups is abt correct.

Good study....but its like constanty saying only Aquafina was shown to reduce thirst

Xtend is more than a BCAA. If you would like to fund a study, then by all means, go ahead. When you're going to cite particulars of the study, at least attempt to get them right. I'm not interested into some E fight over this. You've obviously become very passionate about this as you've recently released your bcaa. Not sure what the mod rules are here and not interested in a ban for going off. Interesting that I'm the one being jumped on and I'm the only one here who has spent a dime in actual research on the topic lol. Chuck, it's too early for drama. Go do some yoga and relax.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I own Scivation.



I'm running around 5-6 studies this year, including a human cancer trial and Angelman's syndrome. There are no plans to run another xtend study in the next 18 months.



I have a financial interest in NP but do nothing operationally with the company. People contacting me would get little value in regards to that. I'm not promoting NP nor am I answering anything along those lines. I'll list whatever the mods want me to list. I'm not here to service NP stuff as I have nothing to do with it. It was brought up before that NP sponsors here but not Scivation, so there could be issues with me having it in my sig

Oh ok. Makes sense. Im that new product release thread, currently you talk about Xtend for pages. You never once say "when we or I release Xtend xyz" you say "they." That also explains why when I posted in the new product release thread about my BCAA product you immediately tried to discredit the product.

Its a post in there where you say "new xtend will b our #1 selling product in 24 months" i thought u were talking abt at Nutraplanet bc I would never think someone would be in the new product release thread pimping a product that the readers cannont figure out is made by your company....that dont even sponsor the board. Why not get a Scivation section back? That way you can openly know in your sig you own Scivation. So when you post stuff like "the new Xtend is the best endurance product Ive ever used" consumers will know thats coming frm the owner of Scivation