An OUTSTANDING Log: The Anabolic Chronicles...

[mich29]

this reminds me of the good ole days over at the other site in regards to this discussion.I've personally never been a fan of using either for pct due to not seeing enough evidence to ensure it would be a safe idea and I'd rather not guess and see what is the sweet spot for myself.

here are a few quotes by patrick for food for thought on bromo 6

actually you are right

checking the numbers again i noticed alpha units were in nanograms while beta was micrograms. thousand fold difference between the two

so in that case i revise my opinion and state that 6-bromo seems like a bad choice all around. if the weakly androgenic beta was the stronger i would say there was hope but as you pointed out, its not



i assume hyperdrol contains 6-bromo

well at least you seem to understand what i am talking about

6-bromo appears to be more suitable for use as a prohormone and probably requires PCT afterwards

probably not really strong PCT but PCT regardless

6-bromo is synthetic


my contention has never been that it suppresses. instead i am saying it's probably like formestane, which appears to have a neutral effect on HPTA (or a very weak positive one).

such anecdotal reports as these are so muddied with confounding factors that it has hard to gain much insight into anything. you need some people with normal HPTA function taking the 6-Br as a standalone for a period of time - just like was done in the 6-oxo studies



read more closely and you will see that in that sentence i also said "HPTA stimulating action acheived via its aromatase inhibitory potential"

so yes, i am saying there is suppression going on. but then i am also saying there is stimulation going on. the first is androgen receptor mediated and the second is estrogen receptor mediated

i think their is a counterbalance of effects going on there. But the pro-gonadotropic effect of the AI potential probably weighs more heavy

localized estrogen production in the brain is vital to libido. if you shut down aromatase in the brain then you will affect libido. the literature is abundant with examples of this

still people would be better off with a pure AI in my opinion, as these should be stronger

net effect is probably zero.



this is a mild prohormone with anti-aromatase activities. very similar to formestane. with formestane you can get slight anabolic effects with minimal suppression because the anti-aromatase activity will act to keep the HPTA up to par during cycle - at least to some extent.

It is inarguable that formestane is everything i just said it is, the science is indisputable on that. It is also inarguable that formestane is not nearly as good at stimulating the HPTA as a "clean" anti-aromatase, and therefore a poor choice for PCT. Furthermore, standalone cycles of formestane DO result in "decent gains with little sides" - just like you are saying is seen with 6-bromo

BTW, i dunno why you throw superdrol in there as a point of comparison. It is completely on the other end of the steroid hormone spectrum





let me break this down

nobody knows if this product has substantial sex hormone activity for sure. Not myself, not ######

So the best we can do is look at closely related data and make assumptions. I did that and I presented a strong case that this stuff is more likely than not androgenic and possibly suppressive

You must also assume that #####has decided that it is not suppressive, since they are selling it as PCT.

#####presents no logic for it being not suppressive. no science.

they sell the product not i. they obviously are basing their belief in the product on indirect assumptions also (they have to be!). where is there logic and scientific support?

here are quotes from sldge

The compound is a steroid as is 6-OXO, ATD,4-OHA and both 6b/6a-bromo. They are all steroidal aromatase inhibitors. The question is if 6-bromo has anabolic metabolites that would bind to the androgen receptor causing negative feedback on the HPTA.

 

[JudoJosh]

good find mich! I know where you got that from.. I would have posted the link but its not allowed here

Dr D did do some posting in some threads defending its use as well as DS but I think the end result was it is all speculation and there is no real evidence other than acendentoal accounts of people

Like I said as for PCT I would be hesitant.. as a stand alone I might give it a try like for a recomp or cut.. maybe stacked with DAA and 7KE and then something like PCT revolution afterwards just to be safe BUT for PCT I wouldnt risk it using 6-bromo IMO

Actually I just may try that.. I think PHF is bringing 6-bromo back out.. if the price is good I may try it as a recomp stacked with DA-HCG and 7-KE and throw in some mucuna just for fun

 

[mich29]

good find mich! I know where you got that from.. I would have posted the link but its not allowed here

Dr D did do some posting in some threads defending its use as well as DS but I think the end result was it is all speculation and there is no real evidence other than acendentoal accounts of people

Like I said as for PCT I would be hesitant.. as a stand alone I might give it a try like for a recomp or cut.. maybe stacked with DAA and 7KE and then something like PCT revolution afterwards just to be safe BUT for PCT I wouldnt risk it using 6-bromo IMO

Actually I just may try that.. I think PHF is bringing 6-bromo back out.. if the price is good I may try it as a recomp stacked with DA-HCG and 7-KE and throw in some mucuna just for fun

yea it sucks we can't link it.it was a hell of a thread. I agree solo I believe they would be great for a recomp or a cut.

 

[JudoJosh]

yea it sucks we can't link it.it was a hell of a thread. I agree solo I believe they would be great for a recomp or a cut.

There are a couple.. the one you quoted is the one where Patrick Arnold questioned it and there is another one where some other guy questions it and Dr. D comes in strong and I get lost in all the chemistry talk :ntome:

In both threads the original poster has interest in a product that is competitive with 6-bromo (other AIs) so I wouldnt take there word at face value since there may be ulterior motives but they do bring up some good interesting points that I would consider valid but like I said I didn't read too much into because at the end of the day it is all speculation and extrapolation based upon indirect studies.

So in conclusion Outstanding I wouldnt recommended using 6-bromo as part of a PCT, I view PCT as a critical time for people. And again to add check out Redefine Nutritions PCT Black, same active as Erase but way better value IMO

 

[Outstanding]

So in conclusion Outstanding I wouldnt recommended using 6-bromo as part of a PCT, I view PCT as a critical time for people. And again to add check out Redefine Nutritions PCT Black, same active as Erase but way better value IMO

I really, really, REALLY appreciate your excellent help and directing me to those quoted thread Judo! Awesome information friend.

However.............. I'm not on PCT, or even contemplating it, I still have months until any sort of PCT takes place.

I was wondering what the best method of counteracting and controlling estrogen and prolactin levels were while ON CYCLE?

I don't suspect ONE product can come shining through in both regards, so I was curious if a combination of Erase/PCT Black, 6-Bromo, ATD, Formestane, and/or a research SERM/AI along with P-5-P and L-Dopa with a high extract yield would be advantageous? (My original post is below)

Can someone help me out... here is a post from the thread: Invalid Link Removed

This has been a great thread, and Mike, EXCELLENT advice on comparing the two.

I just have a few questions, as I am on cycle, and will be ending in September (I always run optimal length cycles). I am not looking to use either compound as a standalone or for PCT (yet), but rather, asking about them as possible adjunct candidates for replacing Letrozole once estrogen and prolactin has been mitigated to acceptable levels (along with Formestane).

First of all - what would you suggest for combating Estrogen activity and circulation on cycle to replace Letrozole (OR... would something like Erase/Formestane be completely superior to both)?

I was going to get AX Advanced PCT with 25mg/serving 90 capsules for $27 before doing more searching, then I found Transform Forged Bromo for $28 @ 35mg/serving plus a host of na-r-ala and other goodies. Basically the Forged Bromo was $28 for 2,100mg of total Bromo content, just over a gram. THEN finally I just came across a brand new product on pre-sale by PHF right now for $20 offering 60 caps @ 50mg, so 3,000mg (3g) total Bromo. Should I just go for the cheapest standalone Bromo, or do the small amount of 325mg synergists in Forged Bromo make a difference?

(*I ALREADY HAVE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF ATD!)

I'm just really in need of keeping sides at bay, and Letrozole is only temporary until lumps and bloating dissipate, then after tapering off I'll be running P-5-P along with high extract L-Dopa and ATD/Bromo/Formestane/(ERASE?)-Topical for the entire duration of cycle (all three... only one... two of the three)? JUST NEED TO CRUSH AND CONTROL Estrogen and Prolactin.

PS: Does the version of Bromo matter, I looked around on other forums, and saw this was being asked and was claimed as being 'critical'

 

[Milas]

I've used 6-bromo and ATD on cycle and in-between cycles. I much prefer 6-bromo to ATD. I dried out more, had better strength increases, and overall felt better (higher libido). I didn't care too much for ATD, didn't work well for me, but others have had much more favorable results. I do, however, think I dosed the ATD too high. Vaughn pointed out Reversitol-1 was just 37.5mg a day at 3 caps, I was doing over double that.

I'd say they both could work for your purpose. I'd expect the 6-bromo to be more anabolic. You can probably use the ATD more sparingly and get a similar estrogen-crushing result.

Just my thoughts Big-O .

 

[Outstanding]

I've used 6-bromo and ATD on cycle and in-between cycles. I much prefer 6-bromo to ATD. I dried out more, had better strength increases, and overall felt better (higher libido). I didn't care too much for ATD, didn't work well for me, but others have had much more favorable results. I do, however, think I dosed the ATD too high. Vaughn pointed out Reversitol-1 was just 37.5mg a day at 3 caps, I was doing over double that.

I'd say they both could work for your purpose. I'd expect the 6-bromo to be more anabolic. You can probably use the ATD more sparingly and get a similar estrogen-crushing result.

Just my thoughts Big-O .

Thank you so much! But... since I'm already on-cycle, and don't care about the anabolic result (being that I'm on a lot of Test and Tren + EQ injections EOD), which would be better to mitigate estrogen (but not totally eradicate it as that's bad too)? The thing is, I also have a LOT of ATD capsules @ 25mg, well over 1,000 I'd say.

-ATD (I think I have rules out 6-Bromo? Looks like it isn't the best choice for ON CYCLE)
-Forma Stanzolol (Topical Formestane)
-and/or the Erase clone known as PCT Black from Redefine Nutrition?

Edit: I found PCT Revolution, the Erase clone, for $24.99 WITH FREE SHIPPING online... unreal, now that's a great price. But... is it ideal for ON CYCLE estrogen management? I DO NOT WANT TO CREATE a competition at the androgen receptor, as this would wreak havoc on the anabolic potential of my injections.

 

[Wheyfocused]

Just as a general safety point...and Im not sure if this has been covered already in this thread.

For those of you taking Nitrates. Make sure to take a dose of Vit C (~200mg) with your nitrates to combat any possible carcinogen formation in the gut

 

[StackedCop]

Just as a general safety point...and Im not sure if this has been covered already in this thread.

For those of you taking Nitrates. Make sure to take a dose of Vit C (~200mg) with your nitrates to combat any possible carcinogen formation in the gut

Nothing wrong with a friendly reminder

 

[ssbackwards]

6 bromo in PCT was nice for me at an every other day dosage, but not more then 60mg is what i used. It was excellent.

i used it with clomid.

ATD is so so, but anti androgens increase LH which similarly AIs increase LH, so you want a little of both in PCT. Necessary evil. Same goes with SERMs technically SHBG is risen by serm use, but usually we dont want that.

i recommend an AI after 2 weeks on the serm for about 10-14 days, then finish the serm therapy to prevent rebound.

6b bromo is the metabolite you want in your PCT, but 6a bromo is more potent and works a lil better keep those doses under 75 mg and keep it at everyother day. it should/will not hinder any type of recovery.

The problem with Cissusdrol is infact the CISSUS acting as a COX1 inhibitior and can hinder muscle gains. period

 

[Outstanding]

6 bromo in PCT was nice for me at an every other day dosage, but not more then 60mg is what i used. It was excellent.

i used it with clomid.

ATD is so so, but anti androgens increase LH which similarly AIs increase LH, so you want a little of both in PCT. Necessary evil. Same goes with SERMs technically SHBG is risen by serm use, but usually we dont want that.

i recommend an AI after 2 weeks on the serm for about 10-14 days, then finish the serm therapy to prevent rebound.

6b bromo is the metabolite you want in your PCT, but 6a bromo is more potent and works a lil better keep those doses under 75 mg and keep it at everyother day. it should/will not hinder any type of recovery.

The problem with Cissusdrol is infact the CISSUS acting as a COX1 inhibitior and can hinder muscle gains. period

Thank you so much! But... since I'm already on-cycle, and don't care about the anabolic result (being that I'm on a lot of Test and Tren + EQ injections EOD), which would be better to mitigate estrogen (but not totally eradicate it as that's bad too)? The thing is, I also have a LOT of ATD capsules @ 25mg, well over 1,000 I'd say.

-ATD (I think I have rules out 6-Bromo? Looks like it isn't the best choice for ON CYCLE)
-Forma Stanzolol (Topical Formestane)
-and/or the Erase clone known as PCT Black from Redefine Nutrition?

Edit: I found PCT Revolution, the Erase clone, for $24.99 WITH FREE SHIPPING online... unreal, now that's a great price. But... is it ideal for ON CYCLE estrogen management? I DO NOT WANT TO CREATE a competition at the androgen receptor, as this would wreak havoc on the anabolic potential of my injections.

I'm on cycle, and will be for some time to come (see post directly above). I just want to get my estrogen and prolactin under control, my Tren is super potent, but my cycle will continue through contest prep ending in September so I want to control estrogen and prolactin and was wondering what the best method would be out of the supplied suggestions above, since Letro shouldn't be used permanently on cycle. Thanks though! PCT is a long way off, and I will be cruise/blasting anyway from now on

 

[Milas]

I think you got it O, ATD plus GABA or L-Dopa should be good for on cycle. What do you think you'll dose them at?

 

[JudoJosh]

I really, really, REALLY appreciate your excellent help and directing me to those quoted thread Judo! Awesome information friend.

However.............. I'm not on PCT, or even contemplating it, I still have months until any sort of PCT takes place.

I was wondering what the best method of counteracting and controlling estrogen and prolactin levels were while ON CYCLE?

I don't suspect ONE product can come shining through in both regards, so I was curious if a combination of Erase/PCT Black, 6-Bromo, ATD, Formestane, and/or a research SERM/AI along with P-5-P and L-Dopa with a high extract yield would be advantageous? (My original post is below)

Sorry O I guess it is my fault for not thoroughly reading the post completely I guess

I will limit my opinions on steroid use as I am not too familiar with it and dont really feel too comfortable giving advice on it BUT I can add some things I think in regards to your questions just please know I have never taken steroids and my reading is very limited on the subject.

Okay with that being said..

I would say to add in a DHT component and DHEA component to the cycle. The DHT will help keep estrogen in check and DHEA to help with lethargy, mental well-being, and libido. Basically, DHT along with DHEA keeps everything in a positive balance while you are on cycle...estrogen is regulated, not destroyed, cortisol is regulated as well, which will allow your test levels to sore. I KNOW this logic applies to PH use but not sure if it would transfer over to AAS use.

I dont think a higher extract of l-dopa would be more advantagous. I like Mucuna at 15% L-dopa personally. The mucuna extract stabilizes the L-DOPA plus with synthetic L-Dopa it transfers enzymatically quicker into dopamine and then norepi. Also might want to start taking some EGCG (if you dont already) as it may help minimize peripheral decarboxylase which is gonna happen with any dopamine or serotonin precurser.

As for this question "Does the version of Bromo matter, I looked around on other forums, and saw this was being asked and was claimed as being 'critical'" Again I am not too familiar with 6-bromo but if your interested I can send you the link to the thread. There is tons of info and studies referenced, I just dont have the time to go through it all but yes there are 2 kinds of 6-brmo. Yes I believe 6-bromo is an effective AI, but like I said it appeared to have some grey area that was being debated in respect to usage in PCT, not sure if the same concerns would be relevant during a cycle :dunno:

I would say DHT, DHEA, Mucuna, and EGCG and you should be able to keep estrogen and prolactin in check and ensure a smooth happy cycle

 

[Outstanding]

I think you got it O, ATD plus GABA or L-Dopa should be good for on cycle. What do you think you'll dose them at?

Well, since I'm not concerned with Libido really, only getting huge - I think 50mg/day of ATD (if I decide to go with it), which won't be so low as not to offer any huge benefit in the face of such powerful androgens, yet won't be so much that side effects and estrogen crippling are too over-the-top.

I used a huge 4g serving of GABA before bed (bought huge amounts of the raw powder) along with double dosages of L-Dopa for nearly 2 months, and Prolactin still rose up against me like a spiteful step child. I don't get it, I'm not doing anything truly insane, just 4-600mg MAX per week of Tren Acetate, surely nothing out of the ordinary for countless modern cycles.

Right now being on Letrozole at such high dosages, I can tell my Estrogen is coming down, but the lumps will be the last things to go beneath my nipples, and then I believe I'll phase in the OTC interventions like P-5-P, and of course the long-debated ATD, or the Erase clone, or 6-Bromo, and/or Forma Stanzolol (topical Formestane). Supposedly, the Forma Stanzolol controls BOTH E and Prolactin, so we'll see.

As long as my joints are healthy, I'm taking a myriad of cholesterol and support supplements, and I could care less temporarily about libido, why shouldn't I totally obliterate estrogen for the time being while continuing my cycle and then start 'from scratch?' DON'T WANT TO RISK this developing into anything more than tissue nodules beneath my nipples, that's for sure.

 

[Outstanding]

Just got a bottle of Forma Stanozol in the mail, very interested in trying it out and putting it to good use combating this estrogen party my body is throwing from the Tren and Test extravaganza!

I really don't want to purchase 6-Bromo or the Erase clone PCT Revolution Black from Redefine Nutrition - since I have SO MUCH ATD caps, unless someone can specifically spell out some advantages one/both of those compounds has over ATD?

Prolactin......... Forma Stanzolol + P-5-P and perhaps something else, should keep that at bay, as the ATD should @ 50mg (2 caps) per day should keep Estrogen in check... THOUGHTS? As I said, I DO NOT want to totally eliminate Estrogen, OR somehow compete with Test/Tren/EQ injections at the androgen receptor with anything that might reduce the anabolic effect of my cycle.

 

[ssbackwards]

I'm on cycle, and will be for some time to come (see post directly above). I just want to get my estrogen and prolactin under control, my Tren is super potent, but my cycle will continue through contest prep ending in September so I want to control estrogen and prolactin and was wondering what the best method would be out of the supplied suggestions above, since Letro shouldn't be used permanently on cycle. Thanks though! PCT is a long way off, and I will be cruise/blasting anyway from now on

prolactin shows its face in HIGH estrogen environment. control that and control prolactin. to be safe use 500mcg 1x a week of caber (think thats the dose i use every so often.

or 250mg L dopa works prolactin.

i would go 6 bromo honestly. **** ATD

 

[mich29]

Just got a bottle of Forma Stanozol in the mail, very interested in trying it out and putting it to good use combating this estrogen party my body is throwing from the Tren and Test extravaganza!

I really don't want to purchase 6-Bromo or the Erase clone PCT Revolution Black from Redefine Nutrition - since I have SO MUCH ATD caps, unless someone can specifically spell out some advantages one/both of those compounds has over ATD?

Prolactin......... Forma Stanzolol + P-5-P and perhaps something else, should keep that at bay, as the ATD should @ 50mg (2 caps) per day should keep Estrogen in check... THOUGHTS? As I said, I DO NOT want to totally eliminate Estrogen, OR somehow compete with Test/Tren/EQ injections at the androgen receptor with anything that might reduce the anabolic effect of my cycle.

sounds right to me though the atd dose I am not sure its been quite awhile since I've seen it used for this method.I know for me the forma had a decent anabolic event for me though I dosed it pretty high.

 

[Outstanding]

prolactin shows its face in HIGH estrogen environment. control that and control prolactin. to be safe use 500mcg 1x a week of caber (think thats the dose i use every so often.

or 250mg L dopa works prolactin.

i would go 6 bromo honestly. **** ATD

You're 101% right about controlling Estrogen = controlling Prolactin. I have been on 5mg Letrozole for over two weeks now, and the newly formed tissues masses just beneath the nipple are still persistent, BUT, my bloating and complete/utter loss of appetite and libido crash have been alleviated - so I'm confused as I'm not sure if this is Letro or something else (don't think it's bunk, but Letro should have already zapped my slight gyno).

Anyway, I DO NOT want to go the Caber route, because it is costly, and Vitex is $4 a bottle and can handily mitigate Prolactin from the good old Tren Acetate. I have a chemist I purchase directly from for my research chems, but some items such as Letro are off the list, so I have to go elsewhere, and have simply never been satisfied doing so over all these years.

PS: Why ---- ATD?

sounds right to me though the atd dose I am not sure its been quite awhile since I've seen it used for this method.I know for me the forma had a decent anabolic event for me though I dosed it pretty high.

I will be doing 10 pumps 2x a day, to gauge the effectiveness, since A) I am a classic example of a true non-responder to 'normal' dosages of anything, and B) My AAS cycle is very high dosed, so I want to make sure I will reap benefits from the topical Formestane.

 

[Outstanding]

Just got 500g of Sigma Tau GPLC, going to cap it this afternoon. It was gratis. Haha!

GPLC, Creatine Nitrate, Agmatine Sulfate, Norvaline, Taurine, EcdyMorph, and Need 2 Slin. My muscles are going to EXPLODE.

 

[StackedCop]

Just got 500g of Sigma Tau GPLC, going to cap it this afternoon. It was gratis. Haha!

GPLC, Creatine Nitrate, Agmatine Sulfate, Norvaline, Taurine, EcdyMorph, and Need 2 Slin. My muscles are going to EXPLODE.

I didn't think the pumps for creatine nitrate, ecdymorph and Agmatine Sulfate could get any better. However, I had my first arm workout after 2 days on PES anabeta, OMG.......

 

[Outstanding]

I didn't think the pumps for creatine nitrate, ecdymorph and Agmatine Sulfate could get any better. However, I had my first arm workout after 2 days on PES anabeta, OMG.......

This is their new mystery product, right? Does it act on hormones at all? Please explain to me what you know about it, and what has been disclosed, thanks!

 

[StackedCop]

Not much is known... Here is the link to my log maybe if you ask in there one of the PES reps will be able to answer you without disclosing what it is.


Invalid Link Removed

I think it's an insulin mimicker with test boosting properties but I don't know.

 

[Outstanding]

Not much is known... Here is the link to my log maybe if you ask in there one of the PES reps will be able to answer you without disclosing what it is.


Invalid Link Removed

I think it's an insulin mimicker with test boosting properties but I don't know.

Do they suggest taking it with carbohydrates, or at certain times of the day? There are always little nuances that can be deduced from leading to a more developed theory. The reason why I ask about hormonal modulation, is because I wouldn't think a company would put something out for members to log that would suppress their testosterone production or elevate estrogen, without disclosing to them what it is, especially with the need for PCT and many other factors and health risks.

 

[StackedCop]

Do they suggest taking it with carbohydrates, or at certain times of the day? There are always little nuances that can be deduced from leading to a more developed theory. The reason why I ask about hormonal modulation, is because I wouldn't think a company would put something out for members to log that would suppress their testosterone production or elevate estrogen, without disclosing to them what it is, especially with the need for PCT and many other factors and health risks.

I was told no PCT will be needed and natty knows about my natural status so I'm assuming this is non hormonal... Hope I'm right HAHA!

 

[MrBigPR]

why is your letro dose so high?

 

[mich29]

very interesting discussion here

 

[StackedCop]

Big O, where you at brother?

 

[Outstanding]

why is your letro dose so high?

Because it was under-dosed, plain and simple

I just ordered, and already have on the way, the absolute best possible products now, just had to survive a short absence of my usual source from over all these years, and assumed perhaps I could find greener pastures. I was wrong.

very interesting discussion here

Thanks Mich, it stimulates me... and I'm all about stimulating myself

Big O, where you at brother?

Been on vacation! Today is my first day back - both yay, and boo! Haha. Yay, because I can get back on the forums and get my nutrition and cycle in check here by brainstorming before contest prep begins, but boo for obvious reasons.

Check out the post below for my initial thoughts regarding my planned cycle leading up to the contest this year!

 

[Powercage]

Im on vacation too. Dont miss me too much

 

[Outstanding]

Brainstorm Think-Post: Competition Prep 2011

Cycle Duration: 16 Weeks
Cycle Construct Premise: Pre-Contest
Strategy: Using a 1/1 ratio hybrid of Long & Short esters to blast and sustain hormone levels in the body, transitioning to T-Propionate as the contest grows closer. Also, beginning with heavily androgenic compounds from the outset, and morphing into hardening adjuncts such as Masteron and Anavar to become stage-ready with zero estrogenic activity imparting unwanted fluid retention paired with low-dosed Arimidex to negate Estradiol proliferation.
Phase Count: Four, 4 weeks each (Androgenic Kick-Start Explosion, Hybrid Period (Bulk/Cut compound combination), Transition Period, Hardening/Lipolytic Fury!)

Anabolic Additives & Protocol

IM Preparations
- Sustanon 250 @ 1g/week (when injected solo before bringing in Prop)
- Testosterone Propionate @ 600mg/week after lowering Sust Phase 3-4)
- Trenbolone Acetate @ 600mg/week throughout entire duration
- Masteron @ 600mg/week (Phase 2-4; which would be weeks 4-16)
- Primobolan Acetate (or) Enanthate (oral, inj. respectively) 400mg/week minimum (Phase 2-4; which would be weeks 4-16)

Orally Active Adjuncts
- Anadrol 50 @ 150mg/day Phase 1, 100mg/day Phase 2, then cessation
- Winstrol @ 100mg/day Phase 3-4 (weeks 8-16)
- Anavar @ 80mg/day Phase 3-4 (weeks 8-16)

Lipolytic/Adipose Antagonist Regimen
- T3 @ 50mcg/day throughout entire duration
- Clenbuterol @ varying pyramid dosages throughout Phases 1, and 4
- Ketotifen @ 3mg/day throughout Phases 1, and 4

Research Chemical Counterparts
- IGF-1-LR3 @ 40mcg bilaterally on all training days (Phase 2 & Phase 4)
- MGF as a synergist to IFG-1-LR3 (Unsure, looking for input from Russian etc)
- GHRP-2 (Unsure at this point, ran a cycle of this before and was very impressed, but has to really do high dosages)
- Hexarelin (or) Mod GF 1-29 (CJC 1295) (Unsure once again, looking for input)

Estrogen & Prolactin Intra-Cycle Mitigation
- Arimidex @ 1mg EOD when side-effects surface, then .5mg EOD once under control
- Cabergoline (Dostinex) (Have 1 bottles on hand as needed moving closer to the show and also to negate puffy nipples)


Notes: This only enumerates my planned AAS/Chemical implementation during contest prep this year, but does not include the barrage of support/health aids I will certainly be taking high advantage of such as Need 2 Guard, and an entire litany of hair-line protectors and common staples such as Need 2 Slin and other mimetics, along with creatine nitrate, BCAAs, and my carbohydrate of choice, Karbolyn among other considerations.

Also, another 'no duh' point of discussion, is that although it may appear 'drug reliant,' it is NOT. As ALWAYS over all the years I have been stepping on stage, nutrition will be FLAWLESS for months on end, and cardio will be more intense, perhaps, than ever!

Thanks for any feedback, and I will say right here and now - I am more excited about this year's contest prep than I have EVER BEEN

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Wow...I am speechless looking at that protocol big man! Can't wait to see the results.

 

[Outstanding]

Brainstorm Think-Post: Competition Prep 2011

Cycle Duration: 16 Weeks
Cycle Construct Premise: Pre-Contest
Strategy: Using a 1/1 ratio hybrid of Long & Short esters to blast and sustain hormone levels in the body, transitioning to T-Propionate as the contest grows closer. Also, beginning with heavily androgenic compounds from the outset, and morphing into hardening adjuncts such as Masteron and Anavar to become stage-ready with zero estrogenic activity imparting unwanted fluid retention paired with low-dosed Arimidex to negate Estradiol proliferation.
Phase Count: Four, 4 weeks each (Androgenic Kick-Start Explosion, Hybrid Period (Bulk/Cut compound combination), Transition Period, Hardening/Lipolytic Fury!)

Anabolic Additives & Protocol

IM Preparations
- Sustanon 250 @ 1g/week (when injected solo before bringing in Prop)
- Testosterone Propionate @ 600mg/week after lowering Sust Phase 3-4)
- Trenbolone Acetate @ 600mg/week throughout entire duration
- Masteron @ 600mg/week (Phase 2-4; which would be weeks 4-16)
- Primobolan Acetate (or) Enanthate (oral, inj. respectively) 400mg/week minimum (Phase 2-4; which would be weeks 4-16)

Orally Active Adjuncts
- Anadrol 50 @ 150mg/day Phase 1, 100mg/day Phase 2, then cessation
- Winstrol @ 100mg/day Phase 3-4 (weeks 8-16)
- Anavar @ 80mg/day Phase 3-4 (weeks 8-16)

Lipolytic/Adipose Antagonist Regimen
- T3 @ 50mcg/day throughout entire duration
- Clenbuterol @ varying pyramid dosages throughout Phases 1, and 4
- Ketotifen @ 3mg/day throughout Phases 1, and 4

Research Chemical Counterparts
- IGF-1-LR3 @ 40mcg bilaterally on all training days (Phase 2 & Phase 4)
- MGF as a synergist to IFG-1-LR3 (Unsure, looking for input from Russian etc)
- GHRP-2 (Unsure at this point, ran a cycle of this before and was very impressed, but has to really do high dosages)
- Hexarelin (or) Mod GF 1-29 (CJC 1295) (Unsure once again, looking for input)

Estrogen & Prolactin Intra-Cycle Mitigation
- Arimidex @ 1mg EOD when side-effects surface, then .5mg EOD once under control
- Cabergoline (Dostinex) (Have 1 bottles on hand as needed moving closer to the show and also to negate puffy nipples)


Notes: This only enumerates my planned AAS/Chemical implementation during contest prep this year, but does not include the barrage of support/health aids I will certainly be taking high advantage of such as Need 2 Guard, and an entire litany of hair-line protectors and common staples such as Need 2 Slin and other mimetics, along with creatine nitrate, BCAAs, and my carbohydrate of choice, Karbolyn among other considerations.

Also, another 'no duh' point of discussion, is that although it may appear 'drug reliant,' it is NOT. As ALWAYS over all the years I have been stepping on stage, nutrition will be FLAWLESS for months on end, and cardio will be more intense, perhaps, than ever!

Thanks for any feedback, and I will say right here and now - I am more excited about this year's contest prep than I have EVER BEEN

Wow...I am speechless looking at that protocol big man! Can't wait to see the results.

THANKS, I am pumped as well! I copied the original post from the last page in case anyone missed it or is curious.

 

[ssbackwards]

That's an insane cycle. I'd suggest honestly a lot less complication altho I understabd wha your doing.

Tren dose is high bro. But PERFECT witht the test dose.

Only thing I would do is hold off on clen and t3 till 8 weeks out so when you hit that plataeu you kill it while getting a little stronger.

T3 should be started a little lower of a dose and dosed up once your body tem ect starts to gravitate from nromal.

IF you use dostinex I would only use it 1x per week mid week. With your adex. That helped me a lot. I'm excited for this man.
You can grow into your competition using this protocol

 

[Outstanding]

That's an insane cycle. I'd suggest honestly a lot less complication altho I understabd wha your doing.

Tren dose is high bro. But PERFECT witht the test dose.

Only thing I would do is hold off on clen and t3 till 8 weeks out so when you hit that plataeu you kill it while getting a little stronger.

T3 should be started a little lower of a dose and dosed up once your body tem ect starts to gravitate from nromal.

IF you use dostinex I would only use it 1x per week mid week. With your adex. That helped me a lot. I'm excited for this man.
You can grow into your competition using this protocol

Thanks a lot for taking the time to check this out and offer your opinions.

I don't disagree with a thing you've said... although bodybuilding and chemical enhancement is very scientific, it's not a perfect science. Ohhhh, I should trademark that

As far as the Tren, I have the absolute most mind blowing Tren you can imagine, super high dosed and still stable, I make it all from start to finish. I wake up with sweat still fresh and soaked THROUGH my shirt like water, and I keep the temperature at 61 all night with the AC! This, along with the Test Propionate I also make dosed @ 200mg/ml is VERY POTENT and allows me to keep my body temperature high and my fat gain VERY minimal in the off-season, even WITHOUT Clen or T3, so I can't even imagine what sweating away on the treadmill and restricting all cheat foods will do as I come into the stage this year!

I also understand your theory where Cytomel is concerned, with the dosages and the specific activity and timing of use; but what about the other side of your contention that argues staying on T3 throughout the prep duration will allow me to assimilate protein/carbs better from the start, and cruise along the yellow brick road being able to predict the results as they come in stead of waiting to use it in perhaps a 'too late' effort of stripping off the final amount of adipose tissue?

As far as the 'complexity' of it all, there are a few reasons behind that. First of all, I've never used Primo, and have access to it finally, and want to add it to my protocol. Secondly, if I really have to cut something out for some unknown reason to reduce injections and make it more streamlined, I would simply eliminate the IGF-1-LR3 or perhaps the GHRPs. Thirdly, I have a career and a lifestyle and support system in place that truly allows me ample time to devote all my attention to detail, punctuality, and planning/execution. Lastly, of course I am also simply curious to see what these drugs can do in synergy WITH my already well planned and unwavering nutrition and insane training (I am N-O-T depending on or 'relying' on these compounds to work any 'magic,' only implementing some profound anabolics to propel my previous bests to new levels).

 

[ssbackwards]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to check this out and offer your opinions.

I don't disagree with a thing you've said... although bodybuilding and chemical enhancement is very scientific, it's not a perfect science. Ohhhh, I should trademark that

As far as the Tren, I have the absolute most mind blowing Tren you can imagine, super high dosed and still stable, I make it all from start to finish. I wake up with sweat still fresh and soaked THROUGH my shirt like water, and I keep the temperature at 61 all night with the AC! This, along with the Test Propionate I also make dosed @ 200mg/ml is VERY POTENT and allows me to keep my body temperature high and my fat gain VERY minimal in the off-season, even WITHOUT Clen or T3, so I can't even imagine what sweating away on the treadmill and restricting all cheat foods will do as I come into the stage this year!

I also understand your theory where Cytomel is concerned, with the dosages and the specific activity and timing of use; but what about the other side of your contention that argues staying on T3 throughout the prep duration will allow me to assimilate protein/carbs better from the start, and cruise along the yellow brick road being able to predict the results as they come in stead of waiting to use it in perhaps a 'too late' effort of stripping off the final amount of adipose tissue?

As far as the 'complexity' of it all, there are a few reasons behind that. First of all, I've never used Primo, and have access to it finally, and want to add it to my protocol. Secondly, if I really have to cut something out for some unknown reason to reduce injections and make it more streamlined, I would simply eliminate the IGF-1-LR3 or perhaps the GHRPs. Thirdly, I have a career and a lifestyle and support system in place that truly allows me ample time to devote all my attention to detail, punctuality, and planning/execution. Lastly, of course I am also simply curious to see what these drugs can do in synergy WITH my already well planned and unwavering nutrition and insane training (I am N-O-T depending on or 'relying' on these compounds to work any 'magic,' only implementing some profound anabolics to propel my previous bests to new levels).

oh yea i know i dont doubt your gear at all. I can only imagine how awesome it is, i mean my mouth waters thinking about it.

interms of protein turn over, cant really be that much more then when on test and tren ect, and how much protein will you consume to meet those needs yanno what im saying.

Id rather see it towards the end incase your behind (which i know you wont be) but for safe keeping and if you decide you want to like i said grow into competition by getting super lean and then increasing caloires ever so gradually and eliminating carbs then slowly adding them come show time to grow and be super hard.

 

[Outstanding]

oh yea i know i dont doubt your gear at all. I can only imagine how awesome it is, i mean my mouth waters thinking about it.

interms of protein turn over, cant really be that much more then when on test and tren ect, and how much protein will you consume to meet those needs yanno what im saying.

Id rather see it towards the end incase your behind (which i know you wont be) but for safe keeping and if you decide you want to like i said grow into competition by getting super lean and then increasing caloires ever so gradually and eliminating carbs then slowly adding them come show time to grow and be super hard.

All good ideas and feedback, thank you! I have actually gotten bigger and stronger during every single contest prep, but one, over the years (natural or not). I remember the first-ever show I did, I thought I was going to end up depleted like so many other wayward bodybuilders come show time, but I was round and totally transformed.

Your points regarding Cytomel are very thought provoking, what if I just did a very light continuous daily dosage scheme leading up until half way through the prep at around 8 weeks out, and then evaluated my situation then? I've already been taking T3 for the past two months straight, and just ran out last week, and have another two days until the new batch arrives at my doorstep - so with THAT in mind, I should probably at least low dose so I don't crash hard and store fat as my TSH levels are normalizing.

 

[ssbackwards]

All good ideas and feedback, thank you! I have actually gotten bigger and stronger during every single contest prep, but one, over the years (natural or not). I remember the first-ever show I did, I thought I was going to end up depleted like so many other wayward bodybuilders come show time, but I was round and totally transformed.

Your points regarding Cytomel are very thought provoking, what if I just did a very light continuous daily dosage scheme leading up until half way through the prep at around 8 weeks out, and then evaluated my situation then? I've already been taking T3 for the past two months straight, and just ran out last week, and have another two days until the new batch arrives at my doorstep - so with THAT in mind, I should probably at least low dose so I don't crash hard and store fat as my TSH levels are normalizing.

definetly even if its 25mcg per day then you bump up. after that. or EOD (halflife is like 2 days or something)

I was also thinking.

IGF1 LR3 doesnt have to be done bi laterally, i never noticed a difference.

 

[Outstanding]

definetly even if its 25mcg per day then you bump up. after that. or EOD (halflife is like 2 days or something)

I was also thinking.

IGF1 LR3 doesnt have to be done bi laterally, i never noticed a difference.

So, something as low as 25mcg per day of T3 would still surpass natural production, leading to enhanced lipolysis?

Also, regarding the IGF-1-LR3... ironically, I was JUST thinking more on this yesterday, and remember an article I read that strongly argued the localized growth effect is absolute smoke and mirrors, NOTHING more. Being a water based injection, there is simply no way possible for the drug to remain localized long enough to impart a stimulus for those specific fibers to grow and expand, and in fact the article mentioned it would even be injected like GH under the skin. Your thoughts?

 

[ssbackwards]

So, something as low as 25mcg per day of T3 would still surpass natural production, leading to enhanced lipolysis?

Also, regarding the IGF-1-LR3... ironically, I was JUST thinking more on this yesterday, and remember an article I read that strongly argued the localized growth effect is absolute smoke and mirrors, NOTHING more. Being a water based injection, there is simply no way possible for the drug to remain localized long enough to impart a stimulus for those specific fibers to grow and expand, and in fact the article mentioned it would even be injected like GH under the skin. Your thoughts?

i do it IM why, because its easier for me. id rather IM i do every shot in my right tri bc it feel cool every so often my lats, that also feels cool.

all SQ shots for me is right next to my knee lol (i know akward but its got great eleasticisty you should try it)

25mcg would surpass it i believe.

and even if it doesnt it prevents metabolic slow down (like you would see on a diet with no t3 at all), and when your ready to bump up just bump up.

 

[MrBigPR]

12.5mcg even shows effects.

 

[Outstanding]

12.5mcg even shows effects.

So..... you're telling me to do 150mcg per day then?



WONKA, WONKA, WONKA!

Actually, in my overzealous always-ready-to-experiment (hey NOT that way!) nature, I did do 100 and even 150mcg daily of T3 for a short stint to gauge it's effects. The verdict was I flattened out like never before, was completely unable to attain any type of muscle pump, and had a body temperature that could heat a small room! Eventually, I did see muscle catabolism as well, but even at those insane dosages it wasn't instant, it took two weeks to become noticeable.

 

[ssbackwards]

So..... you're telling me to do 150mcg per day then?



WONKA, WONKA, WONKA!

Actually, in my overzealous always-ready-to-experiment (hey NOT that way!) nature, I did do 100 and even 150mcg daily of T3 for a short stint to gauge it's effects. The verdict was I flattened out like never before, was completely unable to attain any type of muscle pump, and had a body temperature that could heat a small room! Eventually, I did see muscle catabolism as well, but even at those insane dosages it wasn't instant, it took two weeks to become noticeable.

im at 50mcg ED until may 20th, then ill be at 25mcg for 2 days and onto thyroid recovery stack (home made) for about 2 weeks (while bulking). hopefully ill drop to 178 and more ripped then i am now at 183

 

[mich29]

I love this thread!!!!!!!

 

[Outstanding]

im at 50mcg ED until may 20th, then ill be at 25mcg for 2 days and onto thyroid recovery stack (home made) for about 2 weeks (while bulking). hopefully ill drop to 178 and more ripped then i am now at 183

Just wondering why you're eliminating T3 when starting to bulk, wouldn't that lead to a hugely increased chance for adipogenesis regarding the extra food intake?

PS: How long is your tapering down schedule, and what's in your TSH recovery stack, and how long will you run that until you believe your thyroid is normalized? I believe all the reading I have done show thyroid recovery is pretty quick, only 2-6 weeks for healthy adults after synthetic intervention, right?

I love this thread!!!!!!!

Back at ya!

 

[ssbackwards]

Just wondering why you're eliminating T3 when starting to bulk, wouldn't that lead to a hugely increased chance for adipogenesis regarding the extra food intake?

PS: How long is your tapering down schedule, and what's in your TSH recovery stack, and how long will you run that until you believe your thyroid is normalized? I believe all the reading I have done show thyroid recovery is pretty quick, only 2-6 weeks for healthy adults after synthetic intervention, right?



Back at ya!

im going to dose down starting then for about a week and as i am do my thyroidal recovery stack.... 2-3 weeks and ill be golden.,

still be on 6g garcinia 50% and recompadrol every day so im not to worried plus the test tren eq and cardio will keep me going in the right directions.

 

[Outstanding]

Hey friends,

Remember when I used to write in this journal all the time? Oh, how the memories come flooding back. Those were the golden days of old.

Anyway, I am getting ready to re-up my OTC supplement arsenal, and was wondering if my usual batch of absorption enhancers was even worth it or not? I usually purchase DHB, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Triphala (Emblica), and Bioperine capsules. Any thoughts?

I also just ordered a BUNCH of Recompadrol, and I'm even trying out a couple bottles of Natty-V from the same company, I've used Recompadrol for a long time now, paired with Need 2 Slin, and it has worked some small miracles during that time. I call it the pizza pump product!

Something else exciting has been developing as of late, but I just can't discuss those naughty details here on the forum, because it recounts the villainous tales of an anabolic user, OH MY!

PS: Getting a kilo of LCLT as well as a bulk purchase of 500 Krill Oil caps as well. But, I'm trying to keep my OTC purchases to a minimum, since the good old SUPER CYCLE I have planned for Pre-Contest (see above) will take care of all things hypertrophically speaking, haha!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

I have these wild visions in my head of your supplement stash!:32:

 

[Outstanding]

I have these wild visions in my head of your supplement stash!:32:

The sad, or happy (?) thing is... however wild your visions might be (unless they are of a warehouse), they are probably pretty accurate! Now, if my OTC stash is that amazing, just imagine, hypothetically I have boxes of vials and endless seas of anavar and winstrol strewn about, haha!

Any thoughts on whether the oral absorption enhancers are of any use or worth the money!? (See above)

 

[AZMIDLYF]

The sad, or happy (?) thing is... however wild your visions might be (unless they are of a warehouse), they are probably pretty accurate! Now, if my OTC stash is that amazing, just imagine, hypothetically I have boxes of vials and endless seas of anavar and winstrol strewn about, haha!

Any thoughts on whether the oral absorption enhancers are of any use or worth the money!? (See above)

That is an area I have not really dabbled in at all and I think it would benefit me greatly at my age. I am slowly learning the ropes with them.

 

[Outstanding]

That is an area I have not really dabbled in at all and I think it would benefit me greatly at my age. I am slowly learning the ropes with them.

That backwards-s fella might disagree, I gathered some of his thoughts earlier, and he said they are overprices and basically lack established credible scientific data. Blocking the enzyme responsible for deactivation of the drug clearing process is great, but he contended a shot of vodka would rival any otc drug enhancement intervention, or, grapefruit juice (since the fruits are out of season).