an analysis of chemical nomenclature of jungle warfare

[Chemist2234]

nevermind you answered me PA

 

[Chemist2234]

my undergrad advisor would have your head for using the word machine. analytical testing equipment are INSTRUMENTS, not machines. a car is a machine


we extract the cap contents with an organic solvent like THF

then we will use GC/MS

the GC seperates the components and the Mass Spec helps to identify the components

does your library have the compound your looking for?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Do you want to know the truth ? And I am not fibbing here at all. Every time a thread is started in a negative manner about JW the sales go through the roof and we have to increase production. It doesnt hurt sales, it increases them. DOnt ask me why it happens this way but it does.

worse that can happen is you find out that you are selling a good prosteroid instead of an anti-aromatase

just gotta change the marketing

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Sh*t, Im about 5 pages behind, can someone do a quick summary of this thread threw page 6.

i chastise ALRI for mislabeling and for sloppy chemical nomenclature

then i figure out what is in the stuff (what i think is). i notice its methylated

then i look up the compound in Vida and find its 20:60 androgenic/anabolic versus methyltest orally

then people go nuts when they see that their PCT therapy was actually an anabolic/androgenic agent

i get sent bottles and people await confirmation by GC/MS testing

 

[Patrick Arnold]

While I agree a patent is the correct way of going about protecting your product from competators, putting together a goofy name is a lot less time-consuming, and can serve other purposes as well.

yeah but its illegal and it is also a disservice to customers

there are certain circumstances where you can claim a propietary formula, but you still must list the components of the formula (just not the relative quantities of each component). look at the ingredient listing of any shampoo bottle or energy drink.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

does your library have the compound your looking for?

it might, as this compound is a precursor to some other more well known compounds i believe (bolasterone is one of them)

 

[FitnFirm]

Way back BK made a comment to me about using JW and I found the post ( it is below ) Now I looked up the 6-dehydro-boldenone but couldnt get a match for the whole name.

Whoops! Did I just read that you, a peri-menopausal female, is/was using Jungle Warfare? You realize that has an AI in it, correct? Did ALR tell you it was OK to take something, as a woman, that has an AI in it? Does ALR even know (or do you) what an AI potentially can do to a woman? On a PERMANENT basis, I might add?

This (you using JW) explains a lot of things and the situation is becoming a lot clearer and sensical to me now, Kathy.

You probably ought to get a second opinion (and maybe a third or a fourth) before putting your trust, body and health into the care of ALR.

I'm not going to give you my opinion because you'll just come back with some ad hominem attack claiming I insulted you but there are a number of people here who have more than sufficient knowledge regarding this aspect of endocrinology to discuss the situation with you. You might even consider taking it off the board to EM/PM because it is a personal issue and I know how "touchy" you get when people discuss your personal "stuff".

But I am gonna put a bug in your ear...

...another name for "ADED" is "6-dehydro-boldenone" and I bet you did not know that. Then again, I am pretty sure ALR did not know that either so don't feel too bad.

If you should have any sudden urges to run around a race track or eat sugar cubes and apple slices, please be kind enough to let us all know though, 'mkay?

As always, I do wish you the best of luck and I hope that when someone explains to you how an AI works in a woman/what an AI can do to a woman that you can make an educated choice on whether or not you would consider continuing to use this product.

In the mean time, you can go here

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/exemest_ad.htm

And see what a somewhat similar, Rx aromatase inhibitor can do to you as well as here

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/423511_2

Be well, Kathy. I like your new Avatar, by the way.

BK

 

[thesinner]

yeah but its illegal and it is also a disservice to customers

there are certain circumstances where you can claim a propietary formula, but you still must list the components of the formula (just not the relative quantities of each component). look at the ingredient listing of any shampoo bottle or energy drink.

I was not aware of the legality of giving the compound a screwed-up name. I just wanted to change the attitude this thread was developing with 'just getting a patent' because patents aren't all that easy to get. They take a lot of extra time and money just for exclusive sales rights in one particular country. And this is only if by the time it finally gets reviewed, the patent is granted.

I know it's the policy of my employer to not attempt patents unless it's a sure thing. There's actually been several occasions where competators have patented parts which we had produced first.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

i chastise ALRI for mislabeling and for sloppy chemical nomenclature

then i figure out what is in the stuff (what i think is). i notice its methylated

then i look up the compound in Vida and find its 20:60 androgenic/anabolic versus methyltest orally

then people go nuts when they see that their post cycle therapy therapy was actually an anabolic/androgenic agent

i get sent bottles and people await confirmation by GC/MS testing

Thanks.

This is AM, so I bet most people reading this are happy if it indeed contains an anabolic/androgenic agent. They are going to stock up.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I was not aware of the legality of giving the compound a screwed-up name. I just wanted to change the attitude this thread was developing with 'just getting a patent' because patents aren't all that easy to get. They take a lot of extra time and money just for exclusive sales rights in one particular country. And this is only if by the time it finally gets reviewed, the patent is granted.

Patents are issued to new inventions. You have to "invent" something to patent it (or be the first to find a new use for something already invented) All that "patent pending" you see with proprietary blends is just marketing. There is no reason to fill out a patent application for a proprietary blend. You will see CEE, A-AKG, and Taurine, and see “CEE Matrix-patent pending.” That’s all BS.

If a company actually brings something new to their market or find a new use or do some study to prove something can be used for something its not used for now then that would be a "legit" patent.

I use to write patent application before I started GET DIESEL and you wouldn’t believe some of the stuff the USPTO issues patents on, esp. with supplements.

 

[superdrollover]

Thanks.

This is AM, so I bet most people reading this are happy if it indeed contains an anabolic/androgenic agent. They are going to stock up.

WORD! :food:

 

[Chuck Diesel]

you do understand that i am a competitor of ALRI. And if i post testing results critical of one of his products then i am subject to a lawsuit (irregardless of the accuracy of my testing and reporting)

therefore the best i can do is test the stuff and inform fitnfirm. then its in the hands of ALRI

So go to a cyber café at U of I, create a new username or ask some kid there to create a user name, and post the results.


Maybe I should have PM'ed u that.

So (this is just a "what if") if fitfirm doesnt post the results or says something like, "I fw PA's message to ALR" then we know its what PA said it was, if fitfirm says, "its blablabla, which is not a blablabla" then the results must have been in the favor of ALRI (per se).

 

[thesinner]

Patents are issued to new inventions. You have to "invent" something to patent it (or be the first to find a new use for something already invented) All that "patent pending" you see with proprietary blends is just marketing. There is no reason to fill out a patent application for a proprietary blend. You will see CEE, A-AKG, and Taurine, and see “CEE Matrix-patent pending.” That’s all BS.

If a company actually brings something new to their market or find a new use or do some study to prove something can be used for something its not used for now then that would be a "legit" patent.

I use to write patent application before I started GET DIESEL and you wouldn’t believe some of the stuff the USPTO issues patents on, esp. with supplements.

There is a patent for a chordless jumprope: it's essentially a pair of handles. Nuff said about stupid things getting patented. You can also make an 'improvement' on an already existing invention (e.g. a jumprope).

We also don't know how many attempts were taken before the chordless jumprope received it's patent. Something has to be prepared to make your 'invention' seem innovative and new. And this brings the R&D group down to the deciding question: Which is going to be more beneficial? Taking the time to prepare a really good patent presentation and hopefully get the patent, or use that time to start working on future products?

 

[Viperspit]

So (this is just a "what if") if fitfirm doesnt post the results or says something like, "I fw PA's message to ALR" then we know its what PA said it was, if fitfirm says, "its blablabla, which is not a blablabla" then the results must have been in the favor of ALRI (per se).

I can answer this one right now. The results of the Test period will go thru Author prior to any posting from either Fit or myself. I will also say that Author did not tell me this or even say anything about the test procedure or pending results, this is out of respect to the Owner of ALR Industries period.

 

[whitedevil74]

I can answer this one right now. The results of the Test period will go thru Author prior to any posting from either Fit or myself. I will also say that Author did not tell me this or even say anything about the test procedure or pending results, this is out of respect to the Owner of ALR Industries period.

You and Fit really have been put in an untenable situation and I for one appreciate the professionalism that both of you have demonstrated in this thread. ALR is lucky to have people so loyal working for him.

 

[jmh80]

for gasoline?

Yes.

 

[thesinner]

Yes.

The octane rating on the gasoline (i.e. 87, 89,93) is for that particular octane isomer, correct?

 

[jmh80]

my undergrad advisor would have your head for using the word machine. analytical testing equipment are INSTRUMENTS, not machines. a car is a machine


we extract the cap contents with an organic solvent like THF

then we will use GC/MS

the GC seperates the components and the Mass Spec helps to identify the components

Pat,
I make petrochemical products. The "machines" in the lab merely get in my way with rogue data erroneously pointing to off-spec petrochemicals (that - using thermodynamics amongst other things - turn out to be wrong).
Grrrrr at "the lab"

Chemists are merely a thorn in the side of Jmh80's hot round azz. :thumbsup:

 

[thesinner]

Pat,
I make petrochemical products. The "machines" in the lab merely get in my way with rogue data erroneously pointing to off-spec petrochemicals (that - using thermodynamics amongst other things - turn out to be wrong).
Grrrrr at "the lab"

Chemists are merely a thorn in the side of Jmh80's hot round azz. :thumbsup:

Are you talking about chemists, or lab techs? Because there's a pretty big difference between the two.

 

[quigs]

Way back BK made a comment to me about using JW and I found the post ( it is below ) Now I looked up the 6-dehydro-boldenone but couldnt get a match for the whole name.

I find this post to be interesting because if I remember correctly, there was a time when ALR and BK worked together (right around the time JW came out).

 

[jmh80]

The octane rating on the gasoline (i.e. 87, 89,93) is for that particular octane isomer, correct?

Here's how it works:
the octane value is analyzed by 2 different methods - research (R) and motor (M).

The value you see on the pump is R+M/2

Octane is measured in engines at certain RPM's (all this is defined for every refiner by the government) as basically the amount of knocking produced by the gas.
The Octane value is amount of compression that occurs before the gas is ignited (vs ignition by the spark plug). Ignition by compression is what causes knocking that you hear if you use too low of an octane number in your car.

Alkylation does 2 main things - it takes a set of molecules that you CAN NOT blend to the motor gasoline pool in the summer (C4 olefins) that you'd have to get rid of (which costs money) and also increases the Octane value of your motor gasoline pool.

Since the reaction isn't 100% - the prime alkylate product (off the bottom of the last distillation column) isn't quite 100 Octane value.




Sinner - just the lab in general. Pain my arse.

 

[thesinner]

Sinner - just the lab in general. Pain my arse.

Co-op responsibility #29: Babysitting Lab Supervisors and Technicians.


Thanks again for clarifying the octane rating for me. I had asked my Dad a while back (I think he might oversee a BU that supports you guys, I'll have to double check), and he gave me a strange answer that didn't make much sense to me at the time.

 

[FitnFirm]

I find this post to be interesting because if I remember correctly, there was a time when ALR and BK worked together (right around the time JW came out).

Yes you are correct, before he went to Gaspari I believe.

 

[Erik2003]

Pat,
I make petrochemical products. The "machines" in the lab merely get in my way with rogue data erroneously pointing to off-spec petrochemicals (that - using thermodynamics amongst other things - turn out to be wrong).
Grrrrr at "the lab"

Chemists are merely a thorn in the side of Jmh80's hot round azz. :thumbsup:

So you are the one that is responsible for $5.00 per gallon gas prices!:duel: Thanks.

Second, i have never heard of a guy identifying himself as a "hot round azz"... Maybe you need to get out of the lab more often. :lol:

Just kidding around

 

[grila jujitsu]

isnt JW by alri "suppose" to be a AI/test booster?

 

[Viperspit]

Second, i have never heard of a guy identifying himself as a "hot round azz"... Maybe you need to get out of the lab more often. :lol:

Just kidding around

I would classify JMH as a Spinner

 

[jmh80]

So you are the one that is responsible for $5.00 per gallon gas prices!:duel: Thanks.

Second, i have never heard of a guy identifying himself as a "hot round azz"... Maybe you need to get out of the lab more often. :lol:

Just kidding around

True story - 2 chicks that were really into Jmh80 told him their opinion of his azz. (About a month ago.)


Sadly - Opec is responsible for a big part of gas prices.
The government deserves alot of the blame. When Congress gets involved with gasoline - just expect they'll (A) create gas lines at the pumps (ask your parents) or (B) increase prices.

Refineries are having issues right now - production has fallen. The US is relying on quite a bit of imported gasoline from overseas.

Above all - we don't set the price of gas. It's a commodity traded world wide. Certainly the world doesn't revolve around the US, or does it? :think:

 

[skull]

wow! I cant believe this Ive been trying to figure this one out since MATD first came out---So supposedly MATD and ADED is not even an AI?--I dont know if anyone remembers but the reason they came out with MATD was because ATD [a good AI]also blocks test from AR.--------------------------
Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.

Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.

The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.

 

[SCDiesel23]

wow! I cant believe this Ive been trying to figure this one out since MATD first came out---So supposedly MATD and ADED is not even an AI?--I dont know if anyone remembers but the reason they came out with MATD was because ATD [a good AI]also blocks test from AR.--------------------------
Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.

Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.

The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.

I'm having a problem understanding why methylating ATD would make it a steroid. I was under the impression that mATD and, as PA put it, 6-dehydromethyltestosterone were two seperate compounds. I thought mATD was a trien, and 6-dehydromethyltestosterone was a dien.

 

[jmh80]

SC,
I think they are 2 different compounds - from what Pat said.

 

[SCDiesel23]

SC,
I think they are 2 different compounds - from what Pat said.

Thank you, that's what I was thinking also but I just needed someone to confirm.

 

[skull]

Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.Ellinwood WE, Hess DL, Roselli CE, Spies HG, Resko JA.
Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.

PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE----------------------------------------------------------------------------I think they where claiming the red above was MATD

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Way back BK made a comment to me about using JW and I found the post ( it is below ) Now I looked up the 6-dehydro-boldenone but couldnt get a match for the whole name.

that was a pretty stupid post of BK's and purposely deceptive

ATD is a precursor to "6-dehydroboldenone" as he calls it, so he has no right to say a damn thing. he sells ATD through gaspari

and he derives the odd name with boldenone in it to scare

this product is not androgenic. nor is it what is in JW

 

[PumpingIron]

PA, any idea of when you're gonna have a chance to test it?

 

[FitnFirm]

I have the results. Waiting for ALR to get back with me. Thank you for your patience.

 

[kraftkid]

I have the results. Waiting for ALR to get back with me. Thank you for your patience.

Come on the suspense is killing us. Is JW going to make people grow tails or what!!!!??!!??!!?!??!:woohoo:

 

[neoborn]

Come on the suspense is killing us. Is JW going to make people grow tails or what!!!!??!!??!!?!??!:woohoo:

You mean you haven't yet??!!!:fart:

 

[FitnFirm]

Sorry for the wait, ALR is in a meeting right now.

 

[SCDiesel23]

Sorry for the wait, ALR is in a meeting right now.

refresh......refresh.......refresh.......refresh

lol

 

[FitnFirm]

Ok, ALR left to train, Now I have to wait till he gets back. figured this on my own because he does train around this time and I have not heard back yet, so Im assuming he did not check his email before he left. Prolly 1-2 hours wait now.

PS. We cancelled our training to stay here and get ALR's email.

 

[kraftkid]

You mean you haven't yet??!!!:fart:

Holy ****. I am getting this strange itching on my ass.......

 

[kraftkid]

Ok, ALR left to train, Now I have to wait till he gets back. figured this on my own because he does train around this time and I have not heard back yet, so Im assuming he did not check his email before he left. Prolly 1-2 hours wait now.

PS. We cancelled our training to stay here and get ALR's email.

The drama builds. I bet there are muscleheads everywhere popping popcorn (and ph's) in anticipation.

 

[rpen22]

PS. We cancelled our training to stay here and get ALR's email.

Reps for handling this so well, guys. I appreciate your efforts in keeping us informed!:thumbsup:

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

So if it turns out to be what PA thinks it is, does this mean that JW would require PCT?

 

[rockhard_4eva]

Yes, as it means we have a product thats more powerful than 3-AD!

 

[TheXc]

The drama builds. I bet there are muscleheads everywhere popping popcorn (and ph's) in anticipation.

Want to give us a hint Fnf? Either way, I'm impressed like usual with how ALRI handled the situation.

 

[FitnFirm]

Results

Ok dear forum members, Here are the results of the test.

Per ALR :


Test was inconclusive. Yes, the molecular weights matched up with Patrick's standard, BUT other analogs have the same molecular weight as well so this means nothing.
ALR IND. will have it tested at a 3rd party lab with a new standard ( the correct one ) to verify with the COA's on file. Thanks PA. As always we appreciate your knowledge.

ALR

 

[rpen22]

Interesting. I'd be interested to hear what Patrick says about his results.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

So what exactly does this mean to us?

I've been using JW for the past probably 12 weeks or so to maintain lean mass while I am cutting, and I just assumed it was a natural anabolic, tha I could stay on for quite a while and not have to worry about PCT or a liver supp along with it? Should I try and come off it and switch over to something like powerFULL?

 

[TheXc]

Ok dear forum members, Here are the results of the test.

Per ALR :


Test was inconclusive. Yes, the molecular weights matched up with Patrick's standard, BUT other analogs have the same molecular weight as well so this means nothing.
ALR IND. will have it tested at a 3rd party lab with a new standard ( the correct one ) to verify with the COA's on file. Thanks PA. As always we appreciate your knowledge.

ALR

How Anti-Climatic Did the mw match for mATD or the other compound (or do they have the same molecular weight? Ill look into it more when I get off of work)?