Analysis Paralysis

[chunkymunkey]

Hi guys,

I've been on a fat loss and strength building journey for 1-2 years now and I've made significant progress, but the fat on my stomach is proving very difficult to lose. I know diet is my biggest challenge, and I find myself constantly overwhelmed, or overthinking it, and as a result, not being consistent enough to get me through to the next level.

I'm a closing in on 39 years old, 5'10 (70inch?), about 100kg (220lbs) and probably somewhere around 30% body fat. My arms and legs are lean and I'm holding most of the fat around my organs and places you really don't want it. I've been to a nutrionist and didn't find it very helpful after 3 appointments. It was all very broad information and not as specific as I wanted it, and I felt like it was more about getting me back for another $90 appointment the following month than giving me the guidance I needed to succeed. I tend to thrive on routine, and I'm not afraid to eat the same thing every day, at the same time, if I know that's what I need to do to progress. I was hoping they would give me a meal plan and tell me what to eat and when to time certain meals around training and times of the day.

Can anyone help me simplify this in my mind and guide me to basic meals that I can eat day in and day out? Steak and eggs, chicken and sweet potato, proats? I feel like I'm treading water right now and my physique is starting to get me down. I know if I could get this belly fat down I'd be much happier with how I look. Any help and advice is much appreciated, even if it's jsut a few words of encouragement.

 

[chunkymunkey]

Also, I will add that I've improved my sleep considerably the last few years and get a solid 8 hours per night - sometimes more. I limit my alcohol intake to one, sometimes two days a week if we catch up with friends/family on a weekend (down from previously drinking every night). My work is sedentary - I sit at a computer for hours a day, which I know isn't helpful but it's how I earn my income. I also drink a lot of water every day.

I currently take Epi-Plex, creatine, and fish oil daily, with magnesium before bed. I train with a PT and I'm consistently making progress on my reps and weight, and we change my routine every 8 weeks. I was also training in some martial arts twice a week but over the last few months this has been spotty at best due to commitments with my son and the fact we only have one car at the moment. But I try to get out and walk a bit every day. I'm thinking I'll join a local gym to get more cardio and movement into my weekly routine.

I'm also looking at introducing a weekly 24 hour fast as I've heard this has a few health benefits.

 

[match]

I highly recommend Renaissance Periodizations fat loss lecture series (there are two, a short version and a really in-depth one). They're on youtube. They might not plan every meal for you, but they should get you the info you need to make a proper plan and do it yourself. You'll just need to track your macros and your weight.

And don't get discouraged. Your fitness journey should be a lifelong pursuit. You never reach the top of the mountain, but just keep striving for improvement and you'll both reach and exceed your goals.

 

[KvanH]

I highly recommend Renaissance Periodizations fat loss lecture series (there are two, a short version and a really in-depth one). They're on youtube. They might not plan every meal for you, but they should get you the info you need to make a proper plan and do it yourself. You'll just need to track your macros and your weight.

And don't get discouraged. Your fitness journey should be a lifelong pursuit. You never reach the top of the mountain, but just keep striving for improvement and you'll both reach and exceed your goals.

I was about to suggest the same, lol.

Here's the first lecture of the longer 8 lecture series:

Ps. Weird that your (OP's) PT doesn't do a meal plan for you aswell.

 

[ZLB70]

The days you drink, are you drinking calorie dense things? They can add up pretty quick and stall fat loss

 

[KvanH]

The days you drink, are you drinking calorie dense things? They can add up pretty quick and stall fat loss

Yeah, honestly if drinking more, than a couple, doing that once a week would pretty much destroy my cut. Affecting via multiple angles.

 

[ZLB70]

Yeah, honestly if drinking more, than a couple, doing that once a week would pretty much destroy my cut. Affecting via multiple angles.

Same, unless I plan them ahead during the beginning of the week and adjust diet accordingly I’m screwed

 

[Smont]

Hi guys,

I've been on a fat loss and strength building journey for 1-2 years now and I've made significant progress, but the fat on my stomach is proving very difficult to lose. I know diet is my biggest challenge, and I find myself constantly overwhelmed, or overthinking it, and as a result, not being consistent enough to get me through to the next level.

I'm a closing in on 39 years old, 5'10 (70inch?), about 100kg (220lbs) and probably somewhere around 30% body fat. My arms and legs are lean and I'm holding most of the fat around my organs and places you really don't want it. I've been to a nutrionist and didn't find it very helpful after 3 appointments. It was all very broad information and not as specific as I wanted it, and I felt like it was more about getting me back for another $90 appointment the following month than giving me the guidance I needed to succeed. I tend to thrive on routine, and I'm not afraid to eat the same thing every day, at the same time, if I know that's what I need to do to progress. I was hoping they would give me a meal plan and tell me what to eat and when to time certain meals around training and times of the day.

Can anyone help me simplify this in my mind and guide me to basic meals that I can eat day in and day out? Steak and eggs, chicken and sweet potato, proats? I feel like I'm treading water right now and my physique is starting to get me down. I know if I could get this belly fat down I'd be much happier with how I look. Any help and advice is much appreciated, even if it's jsut a few words of encouragement.

I would love to dive into this topic, my thoughts and some ideas. If your interested il get to it after work today

 

[Resolve10]

At this stage you shouldn’t need anything drastic just need something to stick to. If planning it all out isn’t your thing (some people like to others just appreciate being told what to do, neither is necessarily right or wrong) you could check out the RP app. There’s probably other similar apps or options but I’ve had personal success with that and Macrofactor.

Krunkchris has a log going on right now with the app you could check out if you have questions.

Good luck!

 

[match]

Ps. Weird that your (OP's) PT doesn't do a meal plan for you aswell.

Right?

OP: Already starting to get a good amount of advice and suggestions. Keep us updated on what you're doing differently in the next week so we can help you fill in the gaps.

 

[chunkymunkey]

I highly recommend Renaissance Periodizations fat loss lecture series (there are two, a short version and a really in-depth one). They're on youtube. They might not plan every meal for you, but they should get you the info you need to make a proper plan and do it yourself. You'll just need to track your macros and your weight.

And don't get discouraged. Your fitness journey should be a lifelong pursuit. You never reach the top of the mountain, but just keep striving for improvement and you'll both reach and exceed your goals.

Thank you. I'll check that out and see what I can learn from it.

 

[chunkymunkey]

I was about to suggest the same, lol.

Here's the first lecture of the longer 8 lecture series:

Ps. Weird that your (OP's) PT doesn't do a meal plan for you aswell.

My PT is my physiotherapist who is also a qualified PT, but he isn't a qualified nutritionist so he doesn't like giving out that kind of advice from a professional POV. I don't know if it's different here in Australia, but in my experiences, most PT's won't give you detailed meal plans. Maybe I've just been seeing the wrong PT's, who knows?

 

[chunkymunkey]

The days you drink, are you drinking calorie dense things? They can add up pretty quick and stall fat loss

I usually drink whiskey on the rocks. I have a weekly ritual with my brother and mates where we do some online gaming together every Friday night, and that's when I sink a few while we trash talk each other haha. I've stopped drinking for that the last two weeks, so I'm going to stick with that until I get to a better place and can maintain things.

 

[chunkymunkey]

I would love to dive into this topic, my thoughts and some ideas. If your interested il get to it after work today

Thanks mate, I would love that. Appreciate it.

 

[chunkymunkey]

At this stage you shouldn’t need anything drastic just need something to stick to. If planning it all out isn’t your thing (some people like to others just appreciate being told what to do, neither is necessarily right or wrong) you could check out the RP app. There’s probably other similar apps or options but I’ve had personal success with that and Macrofactor.

Krunkchris has a log going on right now with the app you could check out if you have questions.

Good luck!

Awesome, thanks mate. I'll check out that thread and app.

At this stage, I think if I'm honest with myself, I'd much rather just be told what to do to take the overthinking out of it and just push ahead confident I'm doing the right thing.

 

[Smont]

I was about to suggest the same, lol.

Here's the first lecture of the longer 8 lecture series:

Ps. Weird that your (OP's) PT doesn't do a meal plan for you aswell.

The large majority of if not all of the personal trainers I know/know of, do not do meal plans. They might guide ppl on there diet but someone who does legit meal plans is I bit different then a pt, even a lot of the trainers for bodybuilding don't do meal plans, they have someone else they trust do the food.

Jerry ward use to talk about this, he would do the meal plans for other people's clients

 

[Jeremyk1]

The large majority of if not all of the personal trainers I know/know of, do not do meal plans. They might guide ppl on there diet but someone who does legit meal plans is I bit different then a pt, even a lot of the trainers for bodybuilding don't do meal plans, they have someone else they trust do the food.

Jerry ward use to talk about this, he would do the meal plans for other people's clients

Yeah they’re technically separate certifications. If you only have one, you aren’t supposed to do the other.

 

[KvanH]

The large majority of if not all of the personal trainers I know/know of, do not do meal plans. They might guide ppl on there diet but someone who does legit meal plans is I bit different then a pt, even a lot of the trainers for bodybuilding don't do meal plans, they have someone else they trust do the food.

Jerry ward use to talk about this, he would do the meal plans for other people's clients

Yeah they’re technically separate certifications. If you only have one, you aren’t supposed to do the other.

Ok. And I get that. I guess it's just different here. Where I live I've seen the PT's allways offer both training and meal plans. And that's been the case for me aswell. Who have they compiled the meal plans in co-operation with, who knows. And many PT's work in an 'establisment' or in a team, where they have different experts of different fields to work with. Also when you enter to the area of coaching pros or people who intend to compete, I'm sure coaching of the different areas like training and nutrition will be more divided on who does what.

I don't really know what the 'qualified nutritionist' OP mentioned means, but if it's the same thing, that we call "nutritional therapist' (<- Google translation), then at least in here they're mostly focused on healthy eating and nutrition for different intolerances and sicnessess, like IBS and such, and not so much for athletic perfomance, or cutting or bodybuilding. I wouldn't trust their nutritional advices in this area too much. Less than myselfes, to be honest.

I'm also not too big on certificates, when it comes to athletic performance. I mean if someone has experience - preferably both doing stuff yourself and coaching others - and they are also certified, then great. But you can get a PT cert in a school/education, that takes about a year to complete, in many places. If they started their educational learning from nothing or close to nothing before the cert education, then that year is not a whole lot. And I've seen several certified PT's who don't know half of what I know, for example. And it's not like I consider myself a pro or would be comfortable taking money from anyone of my guidance/services in this field.

Little OT, but these thoughts jumped to my mind.

 

[Smont]

Yeah they’re technically separate certifications. If you only have one, you aren’t supposed to do the other.

Yep, that's whe when ppl ask me for diets I tell them il give them a basic outline, even if it's super detailed il tell them this is just a example of XYZ. Don't wanna get sued for impersonating a registered dietitian.

Also, sadly, a licensed physician is allowed to give diet plans even tho 99% of them know nothing about proper diet outside the mid 1990's textbook stuff they learning about briefly on school

 

[natureman4]

Subbing to this thread, I have a lot of questions and ideas but I think the more experienced guys will be able to articulate them better than I do and I'll come back if I think anything major has been missed. I will say that a 24 hour fast every week is absolutely something I'd try-- I do the same every week and find it really helpful for losing belly and visceral fat. One of your main problems at 30% body fat will be insulin resistance, and fasting, either a 24 hour or intermittent fasting or both, will improve that considerably. 1 24hr fast with morning cardio 2 days after my last strength training (to avoid losing strength progress) weekly works well for me. Just make sure you don't break the fast with a high glycemic load meal, choose low glycemic index carbs but enough of them to replenish glycogen for next day's workout. The lecture posted above is excellent and I'm sure there will be more diet specific comments to come.

About desk job: if it's possible to get up every 45-60 minutes and walk around for a couple minutes, do some bodyweight squats, any kind of movement, there is good evidence that frequent short movement periods throughout the day do more to improve insulin sensitivity than just longer periods of working out once a day. Little habits like that can add up in the long term.

And hang in there brother. This is a tough and frustrating journey for anyone and it's understandable why you would feel discouraged, but I guarantee you still have a lot of progress you'll make.

 

[Smont]

Also, I will add that I've improved my sleep considerably the last few years and get a solid 8 hours per night - sometimes more. I limit my alcohol intake to one, sometimes two days a week if we catch up with friends/family on a weekend (down from previously drinking every night). My work is sedentary - I sit at a computer for hours a day, which I know isn't helpful but it's how I earn my income. I also drink a lot of water every day.

I currently take Epi-Plex, creatine, and fish oil daily, with magnesium before bed. I train with a PT and I'm consistently making progress on my reps and weight, and we change my routine every 8 weeks. I was also training in some martial arts twice a week but over the last few months this has been spotty at best due to commitments with my son and the fact we only have one car at the moment. But I try to get out and walk a bit every day. I'm thinking I'll join a local gym to get more cardio and movement into my weekly routine.

I'm also looking at introducing a weekly 24 hour fast as I've heard this has a few health benefits.

Right off the back we can point our finger at diet and lifestyle.

Lifestyle is going to be a tough one because it's your job to sit at a computer. Often I find those are the hardest ppl to get to loose bodyfat because there calorie demand is super low.

So step 1 is finding your maintenance calories, this does not mean plugging numbers into a app, it's not going to be accurate.

But if you have a food journal and write down everything you eat for a week. During that week you cannot try to eat less or omit certain things. We need to figure out what you have been eating that has you sitting at 220lbs with x amount of bodyfat.
.
Once we know your weekly totals we divide it by 7 and that is your maintenance calories.

Now you have 2 options, burn more calories or eat less food. I like to start ppl by burning more calories because let's face it, we don't want to eat less food.

At 30% bf were probably going to want to jump into a 500 calorie deficit. So we either remove 500 calories of food per day or add enough activity to burn a extra 500 calories.

This is going to have you dropping about 2lbs per week for the first few weeks. After about a month you will probably slow down to 1lb or 0.5lb loss and that's about where we would make the next move.

There's a lot more we can do but just this right here should have you dropping about 15lbs of mostly fat in 8-10 weeks.

It's a little agressive but the higher your bodyfat the more agressive you can be.

Now after this initial phase your bodyfat will be in a better place and we might have to be a little more strategic.

But bare bones basic and simple.

Find your maintenance
Reduce 500cal from food or increase output for 500
DON'T CHEAT! that's important and after 8-10 weeks we reassess.

Because your training in 8 week blocks the we could make calorie adjustments every 8 weeks.

The better we build up your metabolism through exercise and cardio then the more food we can keep on your plate.

As far as the fasting, save it for down the road. Baby steps. Fasting is not easy and there's a time and a place for it.

The time is not yet

 

[match]

Right off the back we can point our finger at diet and lifestyle.

Lifestyle is going to be a tough one because it's your job to sit at a computer. Often I find those are the hardest ppl to get to loose bodyfat because there calorie demand is super low.

So step 1 is finding your maintenance calories, this does not mean plugging numbers into a app, it's not going to be accurate.

But if you have a food journal and write down everything you eat for a week. During that week you cannot try to eat less or omit certain things. We need to figure out what you have been eating that has you sitting at 220lbs with x amount of bodyfat.
.
Once we know your weekly totals we divide it by 7 and that is your maintenance calories.

Now you have 2 options, burn more calories or eat less food. I like to start ppl by burning more calories because let's face it, we don't want to eat less food.

At 30% bf were probably going to want to jump into a 500 calorie deficit. So we either remove 500 calories of food per day or add enough activity to burn a extra 500 calories.

This is going to have you dropping about 2lbs per week for the first few weeks. After about a month you will probably slow down to 1lb or 0.5lb loss and that's about where we would make the next move.

There's a lot more we can do but just this right here should have you dropping about 15lbs of mostly fat in 8-10 weeks.

It's a little agressive but the higher your bodyfat the more agressive you can be.

Now after this initial phase your bodyfat will be in a better place and we might have to be a little more strategic.

But bare bones basic and simple.

Find your maintenance
Reduce 500cal from food or increase output for 500
DON'T CHEAT! that's important and after 8-10 weeks we reassess.

Because your training in 8 week blocks the we could make calorie adjustments every 8 weeks.

The better we build up your metabolism through exercise and cardio then the more food we can keep on your plate.

As far as the fasting, save it for down the road. Baby steps. Fasting is not easy and there's a time and a place for it.

The time is not yet

^Do this to win.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Right off the back we can point our finger at diet and lifestyle.

Lifestyle is going to be a tough one because it's your job to sit at a computer. Often I find those are the hardest ppl to get to loose bodyfat because there calorie demand is super low.

So step 1 is finding your maintenance calories, this does not mean plugging numbers into a app, it's not going to be accurate.

But if you have a food journal and write down everything you eat for a week. During that week you cannot try to eat less or omit certain things. We need to figure out what you have been eating that has you sitting at 220lbs with x amount of bodyfat.
.
Once we know your weekly totals we divide it by 7 and that is your maintenance calories.

Now you have 2 options, burn more calories or eat less food. I like to start ppl by burning more calories because let's face it, we don't want to eat less food.

At 30% bf were probably going to want to jump into a 500 calorie deficit. So we either remove 500 calories of food per day or add enough activity to burn a extra 500 calories.

This is going to have you dropping about 2lbs per week for the first few weeks. After about a month you will probably slow down to 1lb or 0.5lb loss and that's about where we would make the next move.

There's a lot more we can do but just this right here should have you dropping about 15lbs of mostly fat in 8-10 weeks.

It's a little agressive but the higher your bodyfat the more agressive you can be.

Now after this initial phase your bodyfat will be in a better place and we might have to be a little more strategic.

But bare bones basic and simple.

Find your maintenance
Reduce 500cal from food or increase output for 500
DON'T CHEAT! that's important and after 8-10 weeks we reassess.

Because your training in 8 week blocks the we could make calorie adjustments every 8 weeks.

The better we build up your metabolism through exercise and cardio then the more food we can keep on your plate.

As far as the fasting, save it for down the road. Baby steps. Fasting is not easy and there's a time and a place for it.

The time is not yet

Yeah okay that’s cool but, like, what’s the secret?

 

[chunkymunkey]

I don't really know what the 'qualified nutritionist' OP mentioned means, but if it's the same thing, that we call "nutritional therapist' (<- Google translation), then at least in here they're mostly focused on healthy eating and nutrition for different intolerances and sicnessess, like IBS and such, and not so much for athletic perfomance, or cutting or bodybuilding. I wouldn't trust their nutritional advices in this area too much. Less than myselfes, to be honest.

I just meant it's a separate qualification here in Australia. Dietician/Nutritionists are not PT's and PT's are not dieticians. Sometimes you get people who have both, but it's not something you see often. You can get dieticians with sports focused qualifications rather than intolerances and sickness etc.

Either way, my PT does not have those additional qualifications and doesn't offer diet and nutrition advice.

 

[chunkymunkey]

About desk job: if it's possible to get up every 45-60 minutes and walk around for a couple minutes, do some bodyweight squats, any kind of movement, there is good evidence that frequent short movement periods throughout the day do more to improve insulin sensitivity than just longer periods of working out once a day. Little habits like that can add up in the long term.

And hang in there brother. This is a tough and frustrating journey for anyone and it's understandable why you would feel discouraged, but I guarantee you still have a lot of progress you'll make.

I'll set an alarm for every hour and make sure I'm getting up and do some squats and things like that. Every little bit counts, I suppose!

And thank you for the encouragement. I appreciate it!

 

[chunkymunkey]

Right off the back we can point our finger at diet and lifestyle.

Lifestyle is going to be a tough one because it's your job to sit at a computer. Often I find those are the hardest ppl to get to loose bodyfat because there calorie demand is super low.

So step 1 is finding your maintenance calories, this does not mean plugging numbers into a app, it's not going to be accurate.

But if you have a food journal and write down everything you eat for a week. During that week you cannot try to eat less or omit certain things. We need to figure out what you have been eating that has you sitting at 220lbs with x amount of bodyfat.
.
Once we know your weekly totals we divide it by 7 and that is your maintenance calories.

Now you have 2 options, burn more calories or eat less food. I like to start ppl by burning more calories because let's face it, we don't want to eat less food.

At 30% bf were probably going to want to jump into a 500 calorie deficit. So we either remove 500 calories of food per day or add enough activity to burn a extra 500 calories.

This is going to have you dropping about 2lbs per week for the first few weeks. After about a month you will probably slow down to 1lb or 0.5lb loss and that's about where we would make the next move.

There's a lot more we can do but just this right here should have you dropping about 15lbs of mostly fat in 8-10 weeks.

It's a little agressive but the higher your bodyfat the more agressive you can be.

Now after this initial phase your bodyfat will be in a better place and we might have to be a little more strategic.

But bare bones basic and simple.

Find your maintenance
Reduce 500cal from food or increase output for 500
DON'T CHEAT! that's important and after 8-10 weeks we reassess.

Because your training in 8 week blocks the we could make calorie adjustments every 8 weeks.

The better we build up your metabolism through exercise and cardio then the more food we can keep on your plate.

As far as the fasting, save it for down the road. Baby steps. Fasting is not easy and there's a time and a place for it.

The time is not yet

This is super helpful. Thank you.

I'll start a food journal this week and write it all down. Do you mind if I shoot you a DM?

 

[chunkymunkey]

^Do this to win.

I do like to win

 

[natureman4]

This is super helpful. Thank you.

I'll start a food journal this week and write it all down. Do you mind if I shoot you a DM?

I'd like to see the food journal too if you don't mind either dming me or posting it here.

 

[Smont]

This is super helpful. Thank you.

I'll start a food journal this week and write it all down. Do you mind if I shoot you a DM?

No I don't mind