Acetyl L-Carnitine (Alcar) and the Anarchy Stack...post in here!

[Scottyo]

No L-carn tartarate is not better....ALCAR is the best form and most readily crossing into the brain and mitochondria. As for the NAC, some people find it advantageous, and if nothing else its a good anti ox and good for the liver. I have no experience with any of the others besides the 5htp...which I found was marginally effective. Some use it for carb cravings, I used it for help with sleeping. It seemed to work a bit, but was not worth the price IMO.

 

[back2thegym]

How does this daily dosage look:

Pre-workout (empty stomach):
TRIB - 1500mg
DHEA - 50mg
Yohimbine HCI - 5mg

Post-Workout:
PW Shake w/5g Creatine, 15g Dextrose
ALCAR - 500mg
R-ALA - 200mg
GREEN TEA CAPS - 800mg
BIOTIN - 5mg
ECA - 20/200
(this is repeated [less shake] approximately 4-6 hours later depending on RHR)

First Fat Meal (2 hrs after PW shake):
CLA - 9g x 1

Bedtime:
TRIB - 1500mg

 

[back2thegym]

Closing in on the end of (enhanced) Anarchy Stack Week 1. Here are the dosages breakdowns:

Dose 1 (Post-workout, 6:00am)
Ephedrine HCL 25mg
Metabolic Thyrolean x 3 caps
Green Tea Extract 800mg
ALCAR 500mg
R-ALA 100mg
CLA 4g
Biotin 5mg

Dose 2 (12pm, with meal)
Ephedring HCI 25mg
Multivitamin
Green Tea Extract 800mg
ALCAR 500mg
R-ALA 100mg
CLA 4g

Dose 3 (6pm, with meal)
Metabolic Thyrolean x 3 caps
Green Tea Extract 800mg
ALCAR 500mg
R-ALA 100mg
CLA 4g
Biotin 5mg

This stack is bookended by a pre-workout (4:30am) dose of Trib, DHEA, and Yohimbe and a bedtime dose of Trib. Diet is CKD.

I have had no ill side effects from this stack. I have definitely felt increased alertness and mental clarity. The thermogenic effects of the Thyrolean (guggulsterone, HCA, and L-Tyrosine) are very noticeable -- much more so than Syntrax. I had dropped the caffeine tab from my ECA in favor of the Green Tea (and a Grande Starbucks red-eye). Lost 1.5 lbs so far on this stack. Not exceptional, but I've been in a stall so this is welcome.

BTW, not sure anyone else does this, but I made a bulk purchase of 1000 small 3x4 ziploc bags (I think it cost 14 bucks). I then spent a couple of hours stuffing about 30 days worth into them. Now I just grab them in the morning and go. Saves me time and my wife doesn't complain about all the bottles of pills on the sink 8)

 

[ItalianBB15]

so this stack will help in a cutting or bulking phase?

 

[khafra]

Windwords7, still using this stack? I'm interested to hear how you feel about it, this far along. Also wondering why the r-ala does that weird vulcanizing thing when you try to mix it into warm water--it'd make an effective, if costly, kitchen sponge. It and the CLA I have to leave out of my green tea/ALCAR drink.

 

[leobag]

I am not sure if this thread is dead, but here are a couple questions...

My schedule allows me to workout (cardio or weights) in the morning. Typically I will have a pre-workout shake immediately when I wake up and lift about an hour or so later. Then, of course have another post-workout shake.

I wanted to know your advice on taking the stack during/before these two meals... The reason I worry is because of effects of the R-ALA. In the morning after not eating for all that time, should I be taking something that goes for the glucose? Isn't that already going to happen? Or would this be a *good* thing (does it help my body get all the right sugars)?

And that's pretty much the same question for the post-workout meal... doesn't the body already beg for the glucose and not really need any assistance with glucose uptake?

For those that take CLA, I remember reading to alternate it with another oil (or be sure not to use both in one day) - does anyone know where I can find more info about this? I think it was something about not taking CLA and something like Flax Seed Oil on the same days. However, I may be mistaken.

Thanks,
LB

 

[leobag]

anyone still here?

 

[Matthew D]

No just us chickens here

 

[Gungalalunga]

1 year, double blind clinical trial of 3.2g CLA/day with 180 subjects just finished

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15159244

What exactly does this mean:
Mean (+/- SD) BFM in the CLA-triacylglycerol and CLA-FFA groups was 8.7 +/- 9.1% and 6.9 +/- 9.1%, respectively, lower than that in the placebo group (P < 0.001).

BFM = lbs of bodyfat?
8.7 +/- 9.1% = 17.8 to -0.4% ??

 

[Flash]

I think thats saying 8.7% fat loss was the mean value, with a variance range of 9.1% from the mean.

 

[donk]

When is the best time for doseing the stack? With meals, before or after. I have been taking 100mg r-ala 500mg alcar 400mg green tea and 1mg biotin 5-6 times a day with meals just because it is convient. Does anyone know what is most effective timeing wise?

 

[Number 5]

my experience with the anarchy stack:

i used it when it first came out on these boards and it's okay, but i never experienced any incredible lbm gains or fat loss from it. i stopped the cla because i've read some stuff about it that suggested it may be unheathy (and counter-productive with r-ala), but i did find it useful for fat loss at 4-6g doses (this was even before i combined it with the other components of the anarchy stack).

i did not recieve any added benefit from super dosing cla at 16-20g. i still use the r-ala (200 mg/day), green tea and alcar, mainly for the healthy/mental benefits they yield, and i've found it easy to stay in lean shape, but i'm not sure how much of it is because of those products and how much is just because of a healthy diet and consistent workouts.

-5

p.s. some related links from another site (sorry if these have been posted before):

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3835
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5222
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3954
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8296

 

[Flash]

When is the best time for doseing the stack? With meals, before or after. I have been taking 100mg r-ala 500mg alcar 400mg green tea and 1mg biotin 5-6 times a day with meals just because it is convient. Does anyone know what is most effective timeing wise?

Take r-ALA 15min before carb meals. dosing should be~100mg per 30g of carbs.

Take CLA during your larger meals. I take 4g with breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Take GT and ALCAR about 1-2hours before or after eating, including having a shake.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried substituting in GLA of EPA/DHA for the CLA? I wonder if the difference would be noticable?

 

[gulacz]

Hey guys its my first post, so i want to introduuce myself first.
I am 20. I want to lose some stubborn fat have about 13% for a while now and want to try if the anarchy stack would help me.
i am from Germany and do 6 days keto and one day reffed.
I have two questions:
1. Has all the anarchy dinosors diesd out?
2. if not I wanted know if I could yuse anarchy with my keto.
I know that this has been asked before but no one posted who did this this wayß
has anyone tried that?? can i use r-ala as well on carbless days? Cla on carbless days ?

thanx

 

[Flash]

You can still use the stack.

CLA will not pose any problems. ALA, on the other hand will.

What you should do is run the GT, CLA, and ALCAR just like it is shown above. CLA has glucose stabilizing efects; it keeps you blood sugar from going too high or too low. ALA should only be taken during your carb up. Take 100mg of r-ALA for every 30g of carbs. If your using regular ALA you wil use 300mg for every 30g of carbs.

The great thing about the stack is you dont need to do a keto diet. Im dropping fat at a pretty good rate and eatine between 200 and 300g of carbs a day.

 

[gulacz]

And your goals till now´?
I will still stay on my diet!
I think that this way my goals will be a bit higher, becouse of the bigger muscle push.
greetz Paul

 

[IHateGymMorons]

Would using ALCAR and an anarchy like stack be of benefit on a clean bulk??? Perhaps keep off some possible fat gain?

 

[FreakMonster]

I'm thinking of getting the ALCar from BAC. Should I get
ACETYL L-CARNITINE HCl. Similar properties to carnitine, and shown by studies to protect vital organs from oxidative damage while increasing brain levels of choline acetyltransferase, improving cognitive function. It has been used with some success with Alzheimer’s patients. There are claims that testosterone production may be increased with a 1-2 gram dose before breakfast, and that it may trigger a GH release with a protocol of 500mg with 30-100mg ornithine HCl at bedtime. Latest research suggests that it may be used with lipoic acid (ALA) to protect mitochondria from damage. 100 grams, $12.50.
or this

ACETYL L-CARNITINE. 500mg capsules, 120 caps. $19.90.

Also will R-ALA and Alcar prevent me from gaining LBM?

 

[Number 5]

I'm thinking of getting the ALCar from BAC. ACETYL L-CARNITINE. 500mg capsules, 120 caps. $19.90.

BSL sells 1 kg for $70. 1fast sells 500 g for $43. i prefer powder over caps.

Also will R-ALA and Alcar prevent me from gaining LBM?

no.

-5

edit: 1fast just dropped his 500g alcar price to $32 today.

 

[FreakMonster]

I just got my ALCAR in caps. One question I have is the powder better then

the gel caps? If so is the taste of the powder nasty to the point of it be unbearable?

 

[intv]

If by better you mean more bioavailable, I don't think there's much of a difference, don't gel caps melt within a couple of minutes anyway? Many people really like the taste of the powder - it's extremely sour and tart, kind of salty. I take a gram or two in a spoon every morning with a full glass of water.

I just got my ALCAR in caps. One question I have is the powder better then

the gel caps? If so is the taste of the powder nasty to the point of it be unbearable?

 

[FreakMonster]

If by better you mean more bioavailable, I don't think there's much of a difference, don't gel caps melt within a couple of minutes anyway? Many people really like the taste of the powder - it's extremely sour and tart, kind of salty. I take a gram or two in a spoon every morning with a full glass of water.

My only reason to go from caps to powder is because it's much cheaper. I wasn't sure if it was nasty tasting or not.

 

[Dan]

I'm thinking of giving the ALCAR and rALA thing a go, but theres one thing that concerns me: it raises metabolic rate. My metabolism is high as hell and I already have to eat a ton of food when I'm bulking. I wanted to use this stack as a bulking aid and because of its alleged cognitive/energy benefits, but I'm afraid it might be detrimental to my bulk simply because it means I'll burn off more precious calories. Are the metabolic effects all that dramatic, or am I worrying about it too much?

 

[LunaHotel]

The calories it burns are all from bodyfat, since this effect is caused by the l-carnitine transporting fats directly from the adipocyte to the mitochondria to be burned off.

 

[Dan]

So basically I can eat more and gain the same amount of muscle but with less fat I'm assuming.

 

[slaveX]

AF store has 240 of the 500mg caps for 29$.

 

[IHateGymMorons]

Do you take each ingredient of this stack all at once, or seperately throughout the day... I'm guessing you take the Green Tea and ALACAR whenever or before training, then take the R-ALA, CLA, Bioton around mealtimes. Am I right?

 

[IHateGymMorons]

nevermind, just saw the answer somewhere in the middle of this giganctic thread...

 

[I'm Trying]

So I assume no one else is using this??

 

[sawastea]

Not at this moment, though, I do use many of the ingredients in normal day life.

 

[djs2000]

could sesathin replace CLA in this stack?

 

[RobInKuwait]

Anybody thought about phasing out the r-ala or cla in favor of k-r-ala.....aka sledge's glucophase? Don't have any experience with this stack, but I'm looking to lean out a little and this stack looks very promising.

Also, has anyone heard of any females trying this stack? My wife seems interested. If she decides to do it, I'll post her results.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. There is a vast amount of good information in it, and its worth reading all TWENTY pages.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Heres my current Anarchy Stack:

2 grams ALCAR
600 mg R-ALA
1600mg Green tea extract
3 doses Sesathin

Ordered K-R-ALA. Gonna switch to that when it comes in.

I like ALCAR for its feelings of well-being and the focus I get on it. Its really an amazing substance and I would recommend it to anybody.

 

[Newb017]

this is my stack, from a thread on bb.com

i mighta hit it on the head today

I took 1 serving of adenergy stack and 3 grams of cex w/ 10 grams dex, at about 5:55, then at about 6:15 I took almost 4 mL of Redline, dumb me forgot to add the alcar and cit. malate, so I figured I'd try and during workout concoction, I filled one of those big ass gatorade jugs, the gallon ones, I filled it to about half of a gallon, added 1 more serving of adenergy stack, 3 grams of alcar, 4 grams of cit. malate, and 2-3 grams of cex

I had a great workout, usually after i do my barbell bench It's downhill from there but I went for a solid hour and a half, after a few heavy warm up sets, i hit 265x2, 285x2, then 300x1 on incline, a PR for me

all in all a great workout, we'll see if I can get the same results with back squats on monday, I am gonna drop the pre workout serving of adenergy and just stick with a serving during workout, and also keep the dosage of 2 grams pre and during of cex, should produce the same results

hopefully today I don't get smacked in the face by the same mac truck that plowed me yesturday, i'd appreciate not crashing like a beehotch again

 

[hogiejoe]

my stack is this:

2 grams alcar
1500 grams ala
1100 grams Phosphatidylserine
fish oil

i should be feeling pretty good

 

[RobInKuwait]

1100 grams Phosphatidylserine

Have you been on Phosphatidylserine before? I just did a search cause I've never heard of it and it sounds interesting for lowering cortisol levels. I'm interested to know what results/effects you get from it.

 

[hogiejoe]

no i have not tried it, i am just waiting for it to arrive in the mail. i am hoping for the ultimate anti catabolic/feel good stack. ill let you know how goes it when i get it but i have heard good stuff about the serine as well. i have been using the r-ala but it tends to make me a little grumpy and groggy so i think i will go with the ala next bottle.

 

[cable626]

Do you guys think that the ALCAR will help concentration? Considering I'm in school I will try it out and see how it goes. I'm going to be doing the following per day:
2g ALCAR
400mg K-R-ALA
500mg l-ornithine before bed
1mg Biotin
1.2g Green tea extract (i am not sure about this one)

I am looking for the absolute feel good/sleep better/do better in school stack lol.

Also, I think I will do a month on, a month off cycles of this since the depletion of BLAH BLAH BLAH can't be too good for you for an extended period of time.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Do you guys think that the ALCAR will help concentration? Considering I'm in school I will try it out and see how it goes. I'm going to be doing the following per day:
2g ALCAR
400mg K-R-ALA
500mg l-ornithine before bed
1mg Biotin
1.2g Green tea extract (i am not sure about this one)

I am looking for the absolute feel good/sleep better/do better in school stack lol.

Also, I think I will do a month on, a month off cycles of this since the depletion of BLAH BLAH BLAH can't be too good for you for an extended period of time.

Yeah, I think it will help you focus in school. I think those amounts will be a good starting point, but you'll probably want to ramp up the dosages after a little while, at least on the ALCAR and green tea. I'm doing about 4.5-6 grams of ALCAR and 4 grams of green tea ED and loving it. Just make sure you divide up the dosages into about 4 separate dosings. Good luck!

 

[cable626]

wow, started the stack today. and YES, I am doing my physics hw which is absolutely impossible, considering i'm going to an engineering school, but I am staying focused when normally I would go nuts and start punching the wall.
I am not getting the right answers, but I am still trying.
Let's hope this has a positive effect on my training as well.

 

[Newb017]

you mean alcar doesn't make you a genius?! doh....

and don't worry, it'll definitely help with your training

 

[bigbody52]

newb here decided i have done enough lurking and finally post--just received my ALCAR from nutraplanet this week and have been on 5-6g/day and the focus and energy is unreal

 

[RobInKuwait]

newb here decided i have done enough lurking and finally post--just received my ALCAR from nutraplanet this week and have been on 5-6g/day and the focus and energy is unreal

Welcome!

I hear you....ALCAR is the ****! The higher I up the dose the better it seems to work. I've ramped up to about 7-9 grams a day this week since I got the powder in the mail. This is definintly my favorite drug ever (beating out all anabolics, ephedra, alcohol, and any of those crazy drugs I tried in high school).

The only thing I'm concerned about is if there are possible repercussions to taking such a large dose for an extended period of time. Anyone had any bad experiences with ALCAR?

 

[bigbody52]

Thanks Rob!

Yeah I also wonder about the long term effects of the high doses and would like some insight as well.

I had gotten so burned out on the ECA/ECY stacks to the point where they were actually making me feel worse and even more tired but since starting the ALCAR along with 2g of L-Tyrosine/day,~2g of Green Tea/day, and ~25g of Glutamine/day I feel awesome!(It does take about 2 days or so to really feel it but once you do its unreal!)

 

[RobInKuwait]

Thanks Rob!

Yeah I also wonder about the long term effects of the high doses and would like some insight as well.

I had gotten so burned out on the ECA/ECY stacks to the point where they were actually making me feel worse and even more tired but since starting the ALCAR along with 2g of L-Tyrosine/day,~2g of Green Tea/day, and ~25g of Glutamine/day I feel awesome!(It does take about 2 days or so to really feel it but once you do its unreal!)

Never tried L-Tyrosine....what effects will that give you?

I hear you on burning out on the ECA. I relied on it for so long to keep me going at work, and it always made me feel jittery, ate up my prostate, and I crashed after a few hours. Now with ALCAR I don't even crave ECA. I've heard its also great for helping smokers quit, so I'm looking forward to recommending it to friends who are trying to quit.

 

[hogiejoe]

this is just a question so don't get pissed guys but...

Do you think that you maybe getting a little addicted to this stuff and are you building a tolerance or does that high of a dose actually feel that much better?

also i am taking 1.5 grams a day right now and i plan on bumbing it up but it irritates my eyes a little bit. has anyone else experienced this?

 

[bioman]

No but my guess is you're not getting enough antioxidants to offset the ALCAR oxidative potential..or maybe your batch is contaminated?

I try to keep the dose at about 2 grams a day for maintenance. It's good to take a break from it as it seems a tolerance does build over time. That first dose after a break feels really good. I would not describe it as an addiction..just a sort of managable habit that also happens to be mostly good for you.

I've never jonesed for it. lol

 

[hogiejoe]

i see. i figured that about the oxidation.

what about you eyes, has it ever irritated your eyes.

 

[RobInKuwait]

this is just a question so don't get pissed guys but...

Do you think that you maybe getting a little addicted to this stuff and are you building a tolerance or does that high of a dose actually feel that much better?

Heh, that doesn't piss me off.....that addiction thing is actually something I've been thinking alot about. I don't know if I'm addicted or not. Is someone who always has coffee to get them going in the morning addicted to coffee? I'm sure I could get by without it, but it makes me feel good, so why would I want to do that. I like Bioman's term "managable habit"....of course I'm sure crackheads consider crack to be a "managable habit" too :lol: . I've only been on this stuff for about a month tho, so I'm not sure that its early enough for me to have built up a tolerance to it. When the effect starts to really slow down I'll probably cycle off it for a couple of weeks and see if that helps.

HogieJoe- Maybe you should pick up some K-R-ALA or Glucophase....those or some of the most powerful antioxidants out there, if anything helps with the oxidation, they will.

 

[hogiejoe]

Heh, that doesn't piss me off.

i didn't think it would but you never know with alcar junkies. :lol: