Acetyl L-Carnitine (Alcar) and the Anarchy Stack...post in here!

LunaHotel

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From what research there is, ALA is simply an antioxydant in a class by itself. Interestingly, ALA just might help get someone in ketosis after the carb-up of a CKD. I know some people use insulin to that effect, which is quite dangerous.

Overall, I think ALA will be quite safe on a ketogenic diet. Its antioxydant properties are second to none.
 

LunaHotel

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Oh, BTW : I took Alcar, ALA and biotin for a month. Felt SOMETHING, but not a huge difference. Now, I've added the green tea for this month and I must say that the difference with only 3 caps a day is simply *HUGE*. MUST take the green tea.

Starting the 500mg L-Ornithine with a 500mg dose of alcar at bedtime tonight. This is supposed to up GH production... I'll keep you all posted how it goes for me.
 

max silver

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For the last 3 weeks I've been taking alcar at 1.5-2 grams per day, 6 green tea capsules per day, mixing ala/r-ala with my carb meals at varying doses (ala usually at 500 gram per large carb meal and r-ala at 200-300 mg per meal), and biotin at 5mg a couple of times daily. I haven't started in on cla just yet, I've been saving it for anti fat accumulation purposes after a ph cycle I just embarked on, and right now use fish oil capsules at approx. 15 grams per day instead. Seeing as how it's been started that cla and efa's don't mix, I'll hold off on the cla for awhile. I take in 3 or 4 tablespoons of flax oil per day as well as it does wonders for my joints, another reason why I've held off on using CLA at this point.

I can't really say that I've noticed that much in the way of body composition effects up until this point that I can direcly attribute to the stack, but it would be difficult to know what the stack has done in that regard as I have gone from a quick two week cut while beginning the stack to bulking on a transdermal in the 3 weeks I've been on the stack. However I can say that I've noticed some nice effects otherwise which make the stack worthwhile.

I seem to need less sleep at night, generally after I've slept for 6.5 hours or so I'm well rested and ready to wake up, whereas before I tended to need 7.5 to 8 hours previously to achieve the same effect. My overall mood seems to have improved, and as the weeks go on I noticed my energy levels seem to be slowly improving as well, I'm not sure if the alcar effects are cumulative in some way, or if the stuff somehow builds up in your system over time, but it does appear that it's effects are growing stronger in myself as the days progress. Overall I'd give the stack a solid thumbs up.
 

cashiertan

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Oh, BTW : I took Alcar, ALA and biotin for a month. Felt SOMETHING, but not a huge difference. Now, I've added the green tea for this month and I must say that the difference with only 3 caps a day is simply *HUGE*. MUST take the green tea.

Starting the 500mg L-Ornithine with a 500mg dose of alcar at bedtime tonight. This is supposed to up GH production... I'll keep you all posted how it goes for me.
well, i heard that some ppl need one mth b4 they start to see the result of the great anarchy stack. btw, green tea is too good and cheap to miss as part of the stack.
 
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cashiertan

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yoz guys,

got a question. i read that the r-ala is heat sensitive thus it need to be kept cool to maintain its potency. therefore my problem arise. i want to order the r-als from legalgear.com but as my order is an international one which will take 4-14 days delivery, will it cause it to become ineffective? also my country is tropical, which means my country is hot, hot and humid. wonder anyone can help?
 

sawastea

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WW7,

You were saying that might be getting some new CLA with high % then the NOW brand. Any word on that?
 
Sanosuke

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i just wanted to mention i bought all my stuff from BAC besides the capsule machine.. and green tea is way too much of a pain to cap.. it doesnt like to spread evenly without sticking to everything .. it stains and makes a big mess.. besides that everything else is easy to cap.. ALCAR seems to like to clump together but breaks apart easy.. so i think from now on ill buy my green tea pre capped hehe.. oh also as its hard to dose things out like for r-ala getting 100mg into a cap is a pain.. whish i had a mini funnel or something.. i tried taking the r-ala in some juice.. nasty stuff heh..
 

intv

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update

So how's everybody doing on alcar/anarchy stack? I've been on 4 weeks and decided to post an update. I've been taking 3-4 gm alcar; 400-600 mg R-ALA; 2-3 gm GT; 3-5 mg biotin ED. I feel better than I have in a LONG time. I've got a pretty constant supply of energy, and my endurance is through the roof. My mood is great too, I just don't seem to get as irritable as I normally would. I've been sleeping like a log*.

I've been cutting and I really haven't changed my diet in since I started the stack. Calories are down by 500/day, and I eat pretty clean, low GI carbs, etc. I'm doing a 3 day split, and cardio 3 times/week. My weight has been stuck around 170 since before I started, so I was a little concerned that I've been stalled. I don't like measuring myself, I usually just go by how I look, but I'll break the tape out every once in a while. The only thing I can see in the mirror is that my chest looks tighter and more defined, which is great. My wife commented that I'm definitely leaner and more muscular looking, so I broke the tape out. Turns out I've dropped an inch off of my waist since starting the stack, even though my weight hasn't changed! My arms are slightly larger, up by 1/4" R, and slightly more L. Chest is the same, but leaner, so hopefully it's less fat/more muscle. The funny thing is that I didn't even notice that I've been using one notch further on my belt - I had been using the 4th, now I'm on the 5th - I just tighten it and go. I checked it after I measured my waist and discovered the 'discrepancy'.

Honestly, even if I didn't see/measure any differences, I'd still be taking the stack. It just makes me feel that good.

*One side note I've got to mention - I've also been taking 500mg L-Ornithine right before bed. I still get good, hard sleep even if I don't take the Ornithine, but when I do, I definitely get sleepy faster and sleep even harder. I wake up refreshed, but I could still sleep longer if I had the time, like when I was younger. I rarely wake up in the middle of the night anymore. I think I'm getting good sleep from the stack, but it's enhanced by the Ornithine.

edit: I just posted this at bb.com too - people need to know how good this stack is!
 
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meg1793

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hey guys...i just started the stack last week, and I gotta say...though, I'm really glad that everyone is doing wonderfully on it, I don't think that I am having the same effects. I am definitely not waking up refreshed and ready to start my day, first of all. I am not feeling much different, except for the occassional really good day. I actually don't have the extra motivation to go to the gym like 6 days a week like I used to. I only made it 4 times last week, and I didn't get all my stuff done. My stack includes: 2.5 g of ALCAR, 12.5 g of ALA, 5 GT tabs, 15 of CLA, 2 Biotin tabs. I eat 6 meals a day, and take 1 ALCAR and 1 GT before my morning workout. Something that I have noticed is that it makes me want to drink a TON of water, like 1 - 1 1/2 gallons a day!! Thats a lot for me. If anyone has any comments that would help, please let me know!!!
 
Sanosuke

Sanosuke

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12.5g of ala? wow thats way to much..  id say go with about 2-4g of ala and up your dosage of alcar to at least 5g a day.. for me it seems the alcar works the best out of these in improving my mood..
 

motleybreu

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doesnt have to be at least 5g a day of ALCAR IMO..i do just fine with 3g..but 12.5g of ALA is too much
 

windwords7

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I do great on two grams of Alcar and yes, thats too much ALA. No reason to go above 8 grams or so.
 

meg1793

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Ok, so maybe I calculated wrong. Let's make it 1.5 - 2 grams of ALA instead <sorry> And, for the ALCAR...I haven't heard it suggested to take 10 pills of ALCAR a day. That would be 2 for 4 meals and then 2 pre morning workout. That's ok?
 

cashiertan

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dudez,

i read through the threads but i find different ppl take the anarchy at different time. some take it before meal but some take it with meals and some after meals.

so which supp to take at wat time is the best and right time?

r-ala wif meals?
alcar b4 meals?
gt b4 meals?
biotin wif meals?
cla b4 meals?


pluz:
7 keto: b4, wif or after meals?
multivitamins: b4, wif or after meals?


thks dudez
 

tatortodd

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Re: Unquenchable Thirst



I just finished my first week at my new dosages.........

Negative:
I felt great the first few days, but Thursday night I started to feel insanely thirsty. I woke up in the middle of the night with my tongue stuck to the roof of my mouth (not normal for me), and despite drinking over 2 gallons of water per day (normally only drink 1-1/2 gallons per day) I felt dehydrated. There were no other changes to my dieting and supplementing. Any thoughts?

Personally, I'm suspecting the green tea so yesterday afternoon I went back to my old dosage, but no difference yet. Although, it's probably too soon to tell.

~Todd
I think it might be the ALCAR...stuff always makes me more thirsty. Others have noticed the same at animal's.
Today, I finally started feeling normal thirst levels again. The only change I've made (I eat a regular, boring diet) is going back to my old dosage of green tea (1 capsule 3 times daily plus a cup or two at work).

~Todd
Scottyo, you were right. It was the ALCAR because the insane thirst levels came back again. However, this time I dropped back to my old ALCAR dosage and have been normal for nearly two weeks now.

~Todd
 

ex_banana-eater

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I see everyone recommending to take ALA and R-ALA with meals yet it is unsubstantiated. Do some research and you'd find out that the glucose disposal effects of ALA only work in the presence of peroxidation (in larger amounts). You do the research from that point on and find out when it's best to take.
 

LunaHotel

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I once took ALA without a meal. If you're not on a ketogenic diet, this will leave you weak as a newborn puppy.

Go ahead, try it. Just don't plan on doing ANYTHING for the next 3 hours or so... And while you're at it, take two caps, just to make sure you get the full effect. Pretty amazing, actually... ;)
 

jweave23

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Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
I see everyone recommending to take ALA and R-ALA with meals yet it is unsubstantiated. Do some research and you'd find out that the glucose disposal effects of ALA only work in the presence of peroxidation (in larger amounts). You do the research from that point on and find out when it's best to take.
Actually EBE, since you brought this up, why don't you enlighten us please??
 

ex_banana-eater

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Alright, if you reply to my PM ;)

ALA's glucose disposal properties only work in the presence of high peroxide levels due to peroxidation through high stress mitochondrial respiration.

Best take it only during high oxidation periods... exactly why it worked for diabetics, since they have high peroxide levels from innefficient mitochondria.
 

jweave23

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Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
Alright, if you reply to my PM ;)

ALA's glucose disposal properties only work in the presence of high peroxide levels due to peroxidation through high stress mitochondrial respiration.

Best take it only during high oxidation periods... exactly why it worked for diabetics, since they have high peroxide levels from innefficient mitochondria.
Ok, humor me then:

1. When or how does one achieve high peroxide levels? What would be considered high oxidation periods, and where can we read about this? Links please
 

ex_banana-eater

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Did you get my PM?

1 High peroxide levels are produced during times of high mitochondrial stress (usually). Weight training and cardio will do this to you. Those are times considered high by me.

You all know that ALA will increase glucose uptake of muscle in insulin resistant rats right? This is mainly due to high oxidative stress produced by their insulin resistance. We see that high lipid peroxidation works to stimulate muscle glucose uptake in the second study. Although the lipid peroxidation comes from insulin resistance, it shouldn't matter which pathway. The only thing I am missing here is how exactly ALA's peroxide scavenging effects act upon the GLUT4. I doubt it's really sure right now. Layne Norton's new article will look into this. BTW he did a case study I want to tell you about:

With a blood glucose monitor Eric did Exercise training (ET) with no (-) ALA and with (+) ALA. Upon comparing his blood glucose levels to (-) ALA + ET, and 900mg's of ALA + ET, he had 40% lower blood glucose. I am unsure, but I believe there was insignificant changes during sedentary periods.

Heres a couple studies to clear up:


Protection against oxidative stress-induced insulin resistance in rat L6 muscle cells by mircomolar concentrations of alpha-lipoic acid.

Maddux BA, See W, Lawrence JC Jr, Goldfine AL, Goldfine ID, Evans JL.

Diabetes Research Laboratory, Mount Zion Hospital, San Francisco, California 94143-1616, USA. [email protected]

In diabetic patients, alpha-lipoic acid (LA) improves skeletal muscle glucose transport, resulting in increased glucose disposal; however, the molecular mechanism of action of LA is presently unknown. We studied the effects of LA on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose transport in cultured rat L6 muscle cells that overexpress GLUT4. When 2-deoxy-D-glucose uptake was measured in these cells, they were more sensitive and responsive to insulin than wild-type L6 cells. LA, at concentrations < or = 1 mmol/l, had only small effects on glucose transport in cells not exposed to oxidative stress. When cells were exposed to glucose oxidase and glucose to generate H2O2 and cause oxidative stress, there was a marked decrease in insulin-stimulated glucose transport. Pretreatment with LA over the concentration range of 10-1,000 pmol/l protected the insulin effect from inhibition by H2O2. Both the R and S isomers of LA were equally effective. In addition, oxidative stress caused a significant decrease (approximately 50%) in reduced glutathione concentration, along with the rapid activation of the stress-sensitive p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase. Pretreatment with LA prevented both of these events, coincident with protecting insulin action. These studies indicate that in muscle, the major site of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal, one important effect of LA on the insulin-signaling cascade is to protect cells from oxidative stress-induced insulin resistance.


In vivo effect of lipoic acid on lipid peroxidation in patients with diabetic neuropathy.

Androne L, Gavan NA, Veresiu IA, Orasan R.

Diabetes Center & Clinic, Cluj Napoca.

BACKGROUND: The diabetic state, in both humans and experimental animals, is associated with oxidative stress. Lipid peroxidation of nerve membranes has been suggested as a mechanism by which peripheral nerve ischemia and hypoxia could cause neuropathy. Lipoic acid (LA) is a powerful inhibitor of iron-dependent lipid peroxidation and reactive oxygen species. The treatment of diabetic peripheral and cardiac autonomic neuropathy with LA is based on good clinical and experimental evidence. MATERIALS AND METHODS: To investigate the magnitude of the oxidative stress, serum ceruloplasmin (Cp) and lipid peroxide (Lp) levels were measured in 10 patients with diabetic neuropathy, before and 70 days after treatment with single dose of 600 mg LA/day. For other 12 healthy age- and sex-matched control subjects the serum Cp and Lp levels were evaluated. RESULTS: Our results show that hyperglycemia is a factor for an increase in serum ceruloplasmin in patients with diabetic neuropathy compared to healthy subjects (p < 0.0001). High serum ceruloplasmin (Cp) level in patients with diabetes may be related to antioxidant defense. The treatment of diabetic neuropathy with LA does not affect significantly the serum Cp activity. The serum Lp levels after LA administration were significantly lower (p < 0.005) than those before treatment. CONCLUSIONS: The antioxidant therapy with LA improves and may prevent diabetic neuropathy. This improvement is associated with a reduction in the indexes of lipid peroxidation. Oxidative stress appears to be primarily due to the processes of nerve ischemia and hyperglycemia autooxidation.



Interesting note:

"Furthermore, all oxidized forms of LA (S-, R-, and racemic LA) stimulated glucose uptake, whereas the reduced form, dihydrolipoic acid, was ineffective."

PS I will ask to get Layne on here to clean this up a little, he could go in depth and probably correct me a few times.
 

LunaHotel

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Hm... ex_banana-eater, I don't want to say that this research is wrong, but... Is my very-much-hypoglycemia-like weakness after taking ALA at rest without carbs simply a placebo effect?

I suggest we all get together and make another study : Everyone here who has ALA take one or 2 caps on empty stomach and report on how they feel in this thread. Post how many caps you took, and "perceived energy level" at 1, 2, 3 and 4 hours post-ALA. Also indicate if you are on a ketogenic diet.

I know, this isn't as good as getting actual glycemia measurements, but it is still pretty good to tell WETHER OR NOT the glucose-disposal properties of ALA are for real. By collaborating on this we can gain important knowledge...
 

ex_banana-eater

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Hm... ex_banana-eater, I don't want to say that this research is wrong, but... Is my very-much-hypoglycemia-like weakness after taking ALA at rest without carbs simply a placebo effect?

I suggest we all get together and make another study : Everyone here who has ALA take one or 2 caps on empty stomach and report on how they feel in this thread. Post how many caps you took, and "perceived energy level" at 1, 2, 3 and 4 hours post-ALA. Also indicate if you are on a ketogenic diet.

I know, this isn't as good as getting actual glycemia measurements, but it is still pretty good to tell WETHER OR NOT the glucose-disposal properties of ALA are for real. By collaborating on this we can gain important knowledge...
Buy or barrow a blood glucose monitor, or else this means nothing. Some electronic ones are like 30$ Canadian.

Why would one take ALA on a ketogenic diet for glucose disposal properties?

Your ALA may lower blood glucose at rest if you have high lipid peroxidation levels anyway, so that may be the effect. Otherwise it may not be working to the best of its ability.
 

intv

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Hm... ex_banana-eater, I don't want to say that this research is wrong, but... Is my very-much-hypoglycemia-like weakness after taking ALA at rest without carbs simply a placebo effect?

I suggest we all get together and make another study : Everyone here who has ALA take one or 2 caps on empty stomach and report on how they feel in this thread. Post how many caps you took, and "perceived energy level" at 1, 2, 3 and 4 hours post-ALA. Also indicate if you are on a ketogenic diet.

I know, this isn't as good as getting actual glycemia measurements, but it is still pretty good to tell WETHER OR NOT the glucose-disposal properties of ALA are for real. By collaborating on this we can gain important knowledge...
Wow -no thanks - when I first got my stack ingredients in, I hadn't yet read about taking AlA w/food. I took 250mg of R-AlA on an empty stomach, and within 45 minutes I was very lightheaded and starting to shake. I'm probably more sensitive than most people though, if I don't watch my diet I can get hypo fairly easily. Even when I do take it before food, if I wait any longer than about 15 minutes, I start feeling hypo and get ravenous!
 

cashiertan

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Wojo, have you bought all your productst at BAC? I have never bought from them. What was your total cost and what did you think of the quality. 1fast has been my only online supplement shop forever.
well, ww7, wat u got say now that u own ur own supp shop?:D
 

groundrocker

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my anarchy stack results and review

Well, it's been 2 wks since I started the anarchy stack and would like to post my results.

First off, let me give you guys a quick background of me. I've been lifting for about a 1 1/2 yrs and bulked up from 135lbs to 175lbs w/15% b/f. About 4 1/2 months ago I got a hernia deadlifting and was forced to stop. Now I had surgery and was finally able to return back to the gym 2 wks ago after those long months. My stats returning to the gym were 162lbs w/20% b/f. Since I still can't lift heavy I decided to give the anarchy stack a try to lower my bodyfat before I started bulking again.

Here's my current supplements:
1. Alcar - 2g a day
2. R-Ala - 600 mg a day
3. Green tea - 6 pills a day
4. ON Protein
5. T-heat

Ok as for my results, I really didn't feel much from the stack. My mind wasn't sharper like most mentioned. I still needed the same amount of sleep. I didn't feel any of the things that most people mentioned. Now the amazing results I did get was that I did lose some bodyfat. In the first week, i went from 20% b/f to 18.6%. Today is now 2 wks and I am at 160lbs w/17% bf. I forgot to mention that during the two weeks i maintained a clean diet and only did cardio twice a wk for 10 minutes.
Overall, I think the anarchy stack is awesome. The results are amazing. I can't wait to use the stack while on my bulking phase.
 

MJC#24

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up the ALCAR to 3 grams. might be another week/2weeks before it kicks in.
isn't anyone using CLA??? i started using Sesamin instead yesterday. will post if i notice anything.
 

motleybreu

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dont forget ALA is an antioxident and that is it's primary purpose. Using it on a ketogenic diet is ok, it's just not doing anything to the carbs, because there are none..boviously
 

dingleberry

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Okay, WTF did you guys do to me. Today I saw this thread and bought Evening Primrose Oil (will go w/Borage next time), ALCAR, r-ALA, ECA, and I'm going to get some biotin tonight. I have taken 2G ALCAR and 2 doses ECA today and I feel like I smoked a kilo of ice. Jeez, I don't feel all cracked out, but my ADD is going 160MPH! I have NEVER had this type of awareness and feeling of wellbeing. I can't wait to see what higher dosages do, but I think I will wait a week, I might not need to go any higher. I feel like a furnace, sweating and hot as Hell! Tomorrow I'm adding in GLA and r-ALA and biotin. I can't wait! I'm thinking vanadyl would be a good addition to this, it goes awesome with r-ALA at about 50mg/day. Do it three weeks on/1 week off to avoid vanadium poisoning (think achey, flu-like feeling)
 

fiddler

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Doses too high?

hey guys,

great stack. i have been taking ala and alcar according to Dr. Ames. I am now adding CLA, green tea, etc.

According to Dr. Ames, the dosages are

500 mg/day Alcar
250 mg/day ALA

I understand that bodybuilders need more but 8 times or greater more? that seems excessive...comments?

fiddler
 

LunaHotel

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Oh, well. I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones.

I used Alcar, ALA, green tea for 2 months and I felt NOTHING except a slight thermogenic effect from when I added the green tea extract. Oh, and a little bit more energy in the gym from the alcar.

For me, this has been a complete waste of money. I cut back on calories and didn't lose more than a couple pounds of BF.

The one thing I do like is taking 500mg l-Ornithine at bedtime with 500mg alcar. This makes me sleep incredibly well. I also believe it does allow for a greater than usual GH release, as my wrinkles seem lesser since I started this.

Overall, I had *MUCH* better results as a cutting stack with ECA combined with choline, inositol and dl-methionine. Next time I do that, I'mma add guggulesterones on top. Anyways, this stack is so MUCH cheaper than the Anarchy - without the CLA that is...

Lucky bastards ;) :(
 

windwords7

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Re: Doses too high?

hey guys,

great stack. i have been taking ala and alcar according to Dr. Ames. I am now adding CLA, green tea, etc.

According to Dr. Ames, the dosages are

500 mg/day Alcar
250 mg/day ALA

I understand that bodybuilders need more but 8 times or greater more? that seems excessive...comments?

fiddler
Those were not solid recs. Just a place to begin. He has not come to that as the "best" dosing. Furthermore he is trying to accomplish different results that BBers are at those low dosages....
 

windwords7

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Great reports. Lets get some more feedback in! Some progress reports fellas!
 

groundrocker

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update!

It is now the 20th day that I've been on the stack and I'm still seeing results. Since last week when I posted some results, I have gone down from 17% bf to 15.4% bf. I didn't make any changes in my diet or the amount of cardio. I wanted to bring my body fat down more but I decided to start bulking this week to see what kind of results I get from the stack while bulking.
 
bioman

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Well guys I gotta give my most sincere thanks to all of you that have researched this stack. Special thanks to Animal et al for their inital research into these supps.

First off, I'm not a body builder per se, just a fitness enthusiast who likes borrowing techniques from a broad range of sports. I'm 31, 5'10 about 170-172, appr 12% bf but guessing. can see most of my 6 pack.

I've been taking the stack for about 2 weeks at;

ALCAR 1 g, 2x per day
ALA 200 mg, 3-4 x per day
biotin 1mg, 2-3 x per day
vinpocetine 10mg, 1-2 x per day
green tea off and on, more on that later.

As far as losing fat on the Anarachy Stack I can't comment too much as I'm not cutting. Anecedotally, I seem to be leaning out without really trying to. This may be due to being off a 4AD/19Nor cycle now for about 4 weeks so I may just be drying out.

Endurance is up. My mountain bike rides have gotten remarkably easier.

Strength is the same or even down. I seem to have lost intesity and have some trouble maintaining the strength I gained while on cycle. I realize this is the norm but after reviewing the thread I noticed a post by EBE that stated green tea lowers serum T and androgen levels. I'm wondering if GT is such a good idea in terms of maintaining T levels so I'm discontinuing GT to see if it makes a differance. What do you guys think?

As for mental clarity..all I can say is its nothing short of a miracle for me. I've suffered with low grade depression for most of my life. I've supplemented with SAMe and fish oil for a while and although it does help a lot the ALCAR/ALA and VIN really are the icing on the cake. I feel better than I have in many years.

Mood is great for the first time in a long time. Focus is extraordinary. Memory and verbal/writing skills have improved greatly. I really wish I had this **** when I was in college!

So fat loss aside, I have to say I'm another lifer for this stack. Thanks again guys..great work!
 

khafra

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I just started a week ago on the very low end of the dosages w/o CLA--1.5g Alcar, 200-400mg ALA per meal, and 1g green tea extract standardized to 40% polyphenols. I also added 10mg Vinpocetine, 6 mg Biotin, 200mg Rhodiola and mixed it together in 1/2 gallon of water with some Xylitol and sucralose for palatability.
Haven't noticed too much so far, and I think I need to use more ALA, since it's racemic.
I just wanted to check in, though, and make sure that nothing in there becomes rapidly ineffective when mixed with water, though, since I make it in the night and drink it throughout the next day.
 

Rome

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so i gotta eat carbs with my ala? im going to order this stack within the next day or two
 

Rome

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i meant to ask.... how many carbs do i need to eat with a meal when i take ala?
 

Scottyo

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0. You do not need carbs with ala, but if you take it without food or without carbs and are taking a large amount you may feel some hypo symptoms. If you dont want to take carbs, just spread your dosage out more often...its half life is very very short.
 

khafra

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Just to restate my question more succinctly, will it diminish the efficacy of the stack to mix all the ingredients together into a green-tea-ish drink?
 

Blindfaith

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Can you switch Q10 for ALA? It would be quite cost affective! And if so what would the dosage of Q10 be?
 

Scottyo

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theres been talks of switching ibedenone for the ALA, but i think in regards to q10 it didnt have all the prerequisites as its cousin ibed did. Sorry i dont have more info.
 

Blindfaith

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i have about 3 months worth of NO2 just sitting here wasting away...i was wondering if it would be ok to add this to the mix along with the anarchy stack for added leaness and fat loss?
 

JWest0926

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Is L-Carnitine Tartarate a better Carnitine than ALC? Anybody know?
 

JWest0926

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Also considering adding these-

CYSTEINE, N-ACETYL- (NAC)
GLYCINE
OKG, Ornithine Alphaketoglutarate
TRYPTOPHAN, 5-HYDROXY, (5-HTP)

anybody have experience w/any of the above?

Thanks.
 

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