take it with a fat containing meal or fishoils or EFA's... basically its lipophilic so will absorb better with anything containing fat.quick question. should ATD on the off nights before bed, be taken on an empty stomach, or with food?
take it with a fat containing meal or fishoils or EFA's... basically its lipophilic so will absorb better with anything containing fat.quick question. should ATD on the off nights before bed, be taken on an empty stomach, or with food?
Yes, it does! If you read Dan's clinical thesis, you'll see that 600mg lowered LH! 300 raised it, but the sweet spot lies between 1-599mg somewhere.... 6-oxo by itself shouldn't be able to cause shutdown from anything i've seen ...
That's too funny P! I can imagine the look on his face, glad you stayed outta trouble though.LOL i was a pizzaholic back then and walked up to the front doors for a carryout order he closed the doors right as i was walking up, he totally saw me, and it was like 20 min before close time... i know for a fact that it only takes 15 min to make a dominos pizza, ive had to wait for em before... any ways he tries telling me they are closed and only taking care of the rest of there deliveries and then started wlking away, i start cussing up a storm and kick the doors right in the middle and they flung open, i think he early shat himself.. after that i just walked away and got in my car caue i figured if i followed him into the store id end the night in jail... lol. wont ever forget the look on his face. :blink: :jaw: :toofunny:
SAM-e and NAC are good supps in general with multiple benefits. They are not specifically designed as liver protectants and have no anti-androgen effect like MT, so at least they have some redeeming value with fewer sides to justify their use. Use them if you like, but take them on the off days only, or at least wait until before bed on w/o days, after you've given the anabolic a chance to work first.I know Dr. D says not to use Milk thistle while pulsing EPI, but does that apply to all liver support supplements such as SAM-e and NAC? Does anyone (Dr. D?) know if SAM-e or NAC would be okay on off days? Also, what is everyone's opinion on Saw Palmetto? I know a lot of people think taking it reduces gains, but what is everyone's opinion here? It has anti DHT properties, but DHT is an important function of strength. Opinions on both of my questions much appreciated. Thanks
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DR.D again.SAM-e and NAC are good supps in general with multiple benefits. They are not specifically designed as liver protectants and have no anti-androgen effect like MT, so at least they have some redeeming value with fewer sides to justify their use. Use them if you like, but take them on the off days only, or at least wait until before bed on w/o days, after you've given the anabolic a chance to work first.
You really don't want or need the liver protection when pulsing. To give you a perspective, docs often give women 250mg or more of Anadrol-50 (5mg/kg) for not less that 6 months at a time, just to treat anemia. 6 months minimum at 250mg or more of Anadrol, to a woman no less!! There is no liver protection administered with that BTW. I think I would rather live with anemia than liver failure, so that tells you right there just how concerned the medical community really is about potent orals, not very. In other words, don't ruin your pulse just to pander to your irrational fears of inevitable liver destruction. Take liver protection if you want, but I'm telling you it's not meant for pulsing guys, it's meant for long, toxic conventional cycles. I don't even start MT on a normal cycle till about wk2.
I don't like Saw Palmeto either. It definitely promotes gyno in me when I suppress DHT, and reduces muscular hardness and vascularity. Theoretically, it reduces RBC's and immunity as well. It also makes me less "manly" in other ways, which I'm not willing to compromise. That said, I have buddies that use high dose reductase inhibitors for hair loss and have no problems at all with them, so you just have to try for yourself to see if it's going to be a problem.
I think using HDX2, or your test booster of choice, as your whole cycle is good (I just updated the original pulsing post to make this point better) so basically 4 caps/day is my favorite system so far. That way, you're really supplementing a daily test booster as your main core of the cycle with a potent oral to act like the octane booster on w/o days. Epi and HDX2 are not a problem together, they actually stack quite well. Epi does not lower estrogen as many think, just the opposite if anything, so don't confuse the SERM effect of Epi with the AI mechanism of HD. That said, 2 HDs on the off nights are probably plenty for most guys if you just want some insurance to keep bouncing, but 4 caps/day if you wanna kick test into high gear to add another dimension of gains to the pulse.... Dr. D, I know you're a big fan of hyperdrol x2, but what is the specific dosage and timing (days) you would take it while pulsing?
Wow, that is pretty cool!but 4 caps/day if you wanna kick test into high gear to add another dimension of gains to the pulse.
You won't need HD wks 9-12. You won't need PCT at all with 4 caps of HD in the mix! But tor/MFX would be more than enough for a smooth, fast pct later if needed. I really doubt you'll need it though.Wow, that is pretty cool!
I might have to give that a try for my second cycle.
But Dr. D, I have a question, say if I use 4 caps of HDX2 for my 8 weeks pulse cycle and then I want to do another 4 weeks post cycle therapy also with HDX2, that would totaled in 12 weeks on HDX2, would that be too long and excessive to be on an AI at that dosage?
And second question how do you dose 4 caps during on-cycle, just take all 4 before bedtime everyday?
That's awesome!You won't need HD wks 9-12. You won't need post cycle therapy at all with 4 caps of HD in the mix! But tor/MFX would be more than enough for a smooth, fast post cycle therapy later if needed. I really doubt you'll need it though.
LOL! You work too hard man.As for dosing, I take 1 cap every six hours (6am, noon, 6pm, midnight - that's right I never sleep! ) or 1 in the morning, 1 afternoon, 2 before bed spaced out/8hrs if I'm on a 3x/day dosing regimen.
LOL i was a pizzaholic back then and walked up to the front doors for a carryout order he closed the doors right as i was walking up, he totally saw me, and it was like 20 min before close time... i know for a fact that it only takes 15 min to make a dominos pizza, ive had to wait for em before... any ways he tries telling me they are closed and only taking care of the rest of there deliveries and then started wlking away, i start cussing up a storm and kick the doors right in the middle and they flung open, i think he early shat himself.. after that i just walked away and got in my car caue i figured if i followed him into the store id end the night in jail... lol. wont ever forget the look on his face. :blink: :jaw: :toofunny:
NP has 1,4 AD in bulk?1,4AD bulk from NP or SuperDuperDrol?
not yet.NP has 1,4 AD in bulk?
Is this the same with 1,4 AD BOLD?
Will do, thanksread the thread in the NP section.
Wow Neo, looks like the Thorazine wore off early this morning! lol:rant: Shiat like that p!sses me the fck off! :rant: I went to workout during one of the last winter storms when everyone was hiding at home and I found a couple of guys that work for the owner sitting in the gym watching ( I saw from the door ) tv. I knocked on the door and they start waving "oh sorry we're closed" and I was like :wtf: I was royally p!ssed off. I mean if I can come all the way there to work out in a storm the least they can do is flip on a few lights :rant:
Another time I went there an hour before closing and because it was quiet they decided to lock up for the day. I knocked on the door and the owner came and I was like "can I come work out?" basically "wtf!" and they replied "sure sure np come on in , we were just closing cause it was quiet!" :blink: Hours of operation anyone?
Stuff like this really gets to me
Another time I went into Canadian Tire ( think Walmart Yankees ) just about ten minutes before closing up for a few quick buys. Anyhow I needed help to find something and they were turning the lights off. This one girl came over ( feel sorry for her now a little ), and asked "is there anything I can help you with?" and I replied " well yes actually I am looking for "x" and she replied "oh well actually we are closing now so please make your way to the front", I just about fckin lost it :rant: I said to her " So what you actually meant was we're closing the store so get out NOT that you wanted to help me find this product? How about you say what you mean and mean what you say, don't say you want to help when really you just want us to get out!" She humbled up and helped me. I told her I wasn't trying to be an ******* but she should say what she means and mean what she says! :rant: Soon as I jumped into my p!ssed off correctioning my wife walked away
Look! don't fckn get me start ....ok! raaaaaaaawwwwwwr
and that's why folks I don't own guns!
Much Love
Neoborn
/hijack
I don't see why not. Zol seems to have about the same pharmokinetics as an average methyl, at least as far as half-life, so treat it like a methyl on your dosing scheme. It's extra androgenic to me though when stacked with Epi. No hair loss or anything, just rough on the skin and sometimes headaches.... Could someone pulse for 4 weeks, then take 4 weeks off, and pulse for another 4 weeks and dodge post cycle therapy entirely? ...
So after 12 weeks I shouldn't need any sort of PCT? Sounds good.I don't see why not. Zol seems to have about the same pharmokinetics as an average methyl, at least as far as half-life, so treat it like a methyl on your dosing scheme. It's extra androgenic to me though when stacked with Epi. No hair loss or anything, just rough on the skin and sometimes headaches.
You shouldn't need pct, if you do the pulse properly! I admit, that means something different for everyone though. Some guys could only dose 12wks of Zol/Epi 3x/wk at 100/30 while others could get away with 4x/wk at 200/60 with no pct. You'll just have to experiment to see.So after 12 weeks I shouldn't need any sort of post cycle therapy? Sounds good.
How long do you think someone could continue this routine until PCT would be necessary?
This is crazy talk Neo! OK, here goes:Just to clarify
1. HDX2 dose 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed
2. Milk Thistle? NAC or SAM-e only on off days???
3. HDX2 Not needed in post cycle therapy but go MFX weeks 9-12
4. Which is safer in relation to sides and / or has better gains 1,4AD bulk from NP or SuperDuperDrol?
Thanks much love
Neoborn
I would pulse something like this:
PRE/POST
1 - 20/10 mg superdrol - 100/200 mg 1AD
2 - 20/10 mg superdrol - 200/200 mg 1AD
3 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/300 mg 1AD
4 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD
5 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD
6 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD
Some of both pre and post, favoring higher dose methyl pre and higher dose non-methyl post (just based on t1/2 and not A/A ratios in this case). I'm not sure I would exceed 40mg on the superdrol. I start getting really "alpha" even just at 40, but maybe you're better at that than I.
neo formastane is a "suicide inhibitor".... its only an AI. not the same action as a SERM.Thanks D! :thumbsup:
Also is formestane any kind of decent SERM / post cycle therapy? What would it be classified as?
Much love,
Neo "This is MADNESS!" Born
heres the answer to your trisob questions..... cept the dosing .. youd want to take it the same time as PP... thats why its together in one pill in 3-AD.Dr. D
I've just been reading about Anabolic Xtreme's new product the Trisorbagen, and it looks very interesting, I'm keen to give this a try for my second pulse cycle.
What is your propose dosing protocol for this supplement if I want to incorporate it into my next pulse cycle?
This is how I layout my next cycle:
On-Cycle (60 Days):
CEL P-Plex (Total Usage = 24 Workout Days):
Day 1-58 = Pulse 30 mg on Workout Days
Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2 (dose 1 cap at 9am, dose 1 cap at 3pm and dose 2 caps at 9pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 4 caps ED
Anabolic Xtreme Retain 2 (dose 1 cap at 6am, and 1 cap at 2pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 2 caps on Off-Days only
Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen = ??? Should I dose this ED, say 3 times a day (6am, 12pm, 6pm) or should I just dose it only on workout days together with my PP?
Does Trisorbagen need to be taken specifically at the same time with the PP to enhance the absorption ability, or it can just be spread evenly throughout the day and still have the exact same effects?
Ok after thinking about it for 5 minutes I've come up with this dosing protocol, maybe something like this would be optimal?
Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen (On OFF-DAYS dose it at the same time with HDX2, 1 cap at 9am, 1 cap at 3pm and 1 cap at 9pm. On Workout-Days dose 1 cap at 9am with HDX2, 1 cap Pre-Workout together with P-Plex, and 1 cap at 9pm with HDX2)
Day 1-60 = 3 caps ED
What is your opinion on this?
Yes and no.so tell me does trisorbagen work with the very first dose and every dose or is it something that has to be taken 3 times a day every day to get a built up effect for it to start working?
my reasoning behind this question mainly is to see if this would be something to help benifit a pulse type cycle where the ph is take usually in the morning (at least all before 6pm) and only taken 3 or 4 times a week. could this help if one single pill is taken with every dose preworkout on the workout days?
would you get all the effects of alma from single doses or do they have to build up in the system as well to show there own effects?
You will achieve an immediate benefit in absorption and effect from even just 1 dose a day, but the DHB has cummulative activity so after a few days it likely peaks. The Bio is time/dose specific so just whenever you need to take it, it works, and the amla is way overdosed in the formula anyway so even taking it once a day is better than nothing. EOD may be pushing it though.
So yeah, it still helps to a high degee no matter how or when you take it, if that makes sense. 3x/day, ED is the most efficient method though, of course.
Well in my most recent cycles I've been able to push zol up to the 300 range. Would this not be advised because of the pulse?You shouldn't need post cycle therapy, if you do the pulse properly! I admit, that means something different for everyone though. Some guys could only dose 12wks of Zol/Epi 3x/wk at 100/30 while others could get away with 4x/wk at 200/60 with no post cycle therapy. You'll just have to experiment to see.
Leggo, Flossy, haroldjg and lots other guys on Neo's pulsing thread seem to have developed very detailed systems that are finely tailored to their idiosyncrasies and schedules. That's the real beauty of this system. There are basic rules and guidelines of course, but it's so flexible to the individual and allows for a lot of mixing, matching and experimentation.
Always have a emergency post cycle therapy regimen on hand though, just in case anything goes wrong. And always have antibiotics stored in the fridge in case of infection! And walk straight home after school too... lol, J/K You get the idea.
Yes sir, good stuff in post cycle therapy! I don't care what you've heard about "androgenic metabolites", it's great in PCT and you can quote me on that. It has the dual gonadotropic action of not only being an AI but a 5a-reductase inhibitor too, which kicks both FSH and LH in gear faster than just one or the other.Thanks D! :thumbsup:
Also is formestane any kind of decent SERM / post cycle therapy? What would it be classified as?
Much love,
Neo "This is MADNESS!" Born
Thanks for the love edvanp! I have no problem at all with DHEA on off days. I'm one of the people that likes DHEA. I even use it in PCT. It will sub for 7-keto just fine and I do think something like this (cort blocker) is helpful on the off days.Dr.D- Lots of good information, thanks from all of us! Question for you if you don't mind. I'm about to start an EPI clone pulse cycle and I'm doing a lot research/reading. I've noticed that quite a few people who have done this have used DHEA on off days. How do you feel about DHEA on off days? Would 7-Keto be a better choice or is neither really needed? I plan an 8 week pulse while cutting. I'd like to add some LBM but get rid of some fat. Thanks.
Yes, take it with your dose if you can, but it covers hours so you have a window after you take it. For example, if you dose it pre-w/o with your anabolic of choice, it will still be in your system so you don't need it again post-w/o, necessarily, of course that would not hurt anything though.... Ok after thinking about it for 5 minutes I've come up with this dosing protocol, maybe something like this would be optimal?
Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen (On OFF-DAYS dose it at the same time with HDX2, 1 cap at 9am, 1 cap at 3pm and 1 cap at 9pm. On Workout-Days dose 1 cap at 9am with HDX2, 1 cap Pre-Workout together with P-Plex, and 1 cap at 9pm with HDX2)
Day 1-60 = 3 caps ED
What is your opinion on this?
Sure, that could work. I like zol at the 225-275 range myself, you got about 15lbs on me though so your dose does not sound that outrageous.Well in my most recent cycles I've been able to push zol up to the 300 range. Would this not be advised because of the pulse?
I was also thinking of working epi up to 50mg. However if I break it into 4 week sessions with 4 week breaks in between, I was going to stick to no more than 40mg.
I weigh in the 235lb range depending on the day...if that means anything.
I warned you that combo was a little androgenic! 60/250 gives pretty good headaches too sometimes, along with the acne.... I took 20 mg EPI and 150 mg ZOL on monday and I am starting to get a little acne, but nothing serious at all. ...
I'll do that. Thanks for the tips D!Yes, take it with your dose if you can, but it covers hours so you have a window after you take it. For example, if you dose it pre-w/o with your anabolic of choice, it will still be in your system so you don't need it again post-w/o, necessarily, of course that would not hurt anything though.
If you're dosing Trisorb with a meal, that's ideal, and you can even take it with meals on off days just for the improved calorie utilization. Take the Trisorb with a big drink of water. Then eat, then take your anabolic after the meal. That way the Trisorb get's a little head start to begin working while you eat and before you take the anabolic.
Thanks Doc.Sure, that could work. I like zol at the 225-275 range myself, you got about 15lbs on me though so your dose does not sound that outrageous.
What specifically, Neo?Thanks D +Rep when I can. So then this is good enough for a pulse semi post cycle therapy?
Much Love,
Neoborn