How to "pulse" orals

adil said:
quick question. should ATD on the off nights before bed, be taken on an empty stomach, or with food?
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take it with a fat containing meal or fishoils or EFA's... basically its lipophilic so will absorb better with anything containing fat.
 
LOL i was a pizzaholic back then and walked up to the front doors for a carryout order he closed the doors right as i was walking up, he totally saw me, and it was like 20 min before close time... i know for a fact that it only takes 15 min to make a dominos pizza, ive had to wait for em before... any ways he tries telling me they are closed and only taking care of the rest of there deliveries and then started wlking away, i start cussing up a storm and kick the doors right in the middle and they flung open, i think he early shat himself.. after that i just walked away and got in my car caue i figured if i followed him into the store id end the night in jail... lol. wont ever forget the look on his face. :blink: :jaw: :toofunny:
 
EasyEJL said:
... 6-oxo by itself shouldn't be able to cause shutdown from anything i've seen ...
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Yes, it does! If you read Dan's clinical thesis, you'll see that 600mg lowered LH! 300 raised it, but the sweet spot lies between 1-599mg somewhere.

You guys forget that suppressing estrogen mostly just elevates FSH. You have to suppress DHT to directly elevate LH efficiently and 6-oxo raise DHT proportional to dose, so more is not better. It's actually counter productive beyond a certain dose, and it's benefits are limited to it's intrinsic activity and that 'perfect' dose whatever it may be. I'm not even sure why people still use this inferior AI, but if you do, be advised how it works best. I'd keep it to 100-200mg/night max.
 
poopypants said:
LOL i was a pizzaholic back then and walked up to the front doors for a carryout order he closed the doors right as i was walking up, he totally saw me, and it was like 20 min before close time... i know for a fact that it only takes 15 min to make a dominos pizza, ive had to wait for em before... any ways he tries telling me they are closed and only taking care of the rest of there deliveries and then started wlking away, i start cussing up a storm and kick the doors right in the middle and they flung open, i think he early shat himself.. after that i just walked away and got in my car caue i figured if i followed him into the store id end the night in jail... lol. wont ever forget the look on his face. :blink: :jaw: :toofunny:
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That's too funny P! :p I can imagine the look on his face, glad you stayed outta trouble though.
 
I know Dr. D says not to use Milk thistle while pulsing EPI, but does that apply to all liver support supplements such as SAM-e and NAC? Does anyone (Dr. D?) know if SAM-e or NAC would be okay on off days? Also, what is everyone's opinion on Saw Palmetto? I know a lot of people think taking it reduces gains, but what is everyone's opinion here? It has anti DHT properties, but DHT is an important function of strength. Opinions on both of my questions much appreciated. Thanks
 
I was wondering the same thing. I wanted to pulse Hemaguno. What support supps should i run along side that? and at what doseage.
 
homesliceyea said:
I know Dr. D says not to use Milk thistle while pulsing EPI, but does that apply to all liver support supplements such as SAM-e and NAC? Does anyone (Dr. D?) know if SAM-e or NAC would be okay on off days? Also, what is everyone's opinion on Saw Palmetto? I know a lot of people think taking it reduces gains, but what is everyone's opinion here? It has anti DHT properties, but DHT is an important function of strength. Opinions on both of my questions much appreciated. Thanks
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SAM-e and NAC are good supps in general with multiple benefits. They are not specifically designed as liver protectants and have no anti-androgen effect like MT, so at least they have some redeeming value with fewer sides to justify their use. Use them if you like, but take them on the off days only, or at least wait until before bed on w/o days, after you've given the anabolic a chance to work first.

You really don't want or need the liver protection when pulsing. To give you a perspective, docs often give women 250mg or more of Anadrol-50 (5mg/kg) for not less that 6 months at a time, just to treat anemia. 6 months minimum at 250mg or more of Anadrol, to a woman no less!! There is no liver protection administered with that BTW. I think I would rather live with anemia than liver failure, so that tells you right there just how concerned the medical community really is about potent orals, not very. In other words, don't ruin your pulse just to pander to your irrational fears of inevitable liver destruction. Take liver protection if you want, but I'm telling you it's not meant for pulsing guys, it's meant for long, toxic conventional cycles. I don't even start MT on a normal cycle till about wk2.

I don't like Saw Palmeto either. It definitely promotes gyno in me when I suppress DHT, and reduces muscular hardness and vascularity. Theoretically, it reduces RBC's and immunity as well. It also makes me less "manly" in other ways, which I'm not willing to compromise. That said, I have buddies that use high dose reductase inhibitors for hair loss and have no problems at all with them, so you just have to try for yourself to see if it's going to be a problem.
 
DR.D said:
SAM-e and NAC are good supps in general with multiple benefits. They are not specifically designed as liver protectants and have no anti-androgen effect like MT, so at least they have some redeeming value with fewer sides to justify their use. Use them if you like, but take them on the off days only, or at least wait until before bed on w/o days, after you've given the anabolic a chance to work first.

You really don't want or need the liver protection when pulsing. To give you a perspective, docs often give women 250mg or more of Anadrol-50 (5mg/kg) for not less that 6 months at a time, just to treat anemia. 6 months minimum at 250mg or more of Anadrol, to a woman no less!! There is no liver protection administered with that BTW. I think I would rather live with anemia than liver failure, so that tells you right there just how concerned the medical community really is about potent orals, not very. In other words, don't ruin your pulse just to pander to your irrational fears of inevitable liver destruction. Take liver protection if you want, but I'm telling you it's not meant for pulsing guys, it's meant for long, toxic conventional cycles. I don't even start MT on a normal cycle till about wk2.

I don't like Saw Palmeto either. It definitely promotes gyno in me when I suppress DHT, and reduces muscular hardness and vascularity. Theoretically, it reduces RBC's and immunity as well. It also makes me less "manly" in other ways, which I'm not willing to compromise. That said, I have buddies that use high dose reductase inhibitors for hair loss and have no problems at all with them, so you just have to try for yourself to see if it's going to be a problem.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DR.D again.

Always a man of sage advice and infinite wisdom! :type:
 
Okay. I think this was a good clear up then. Milk thistle is definitely bad for pulsing, but other liver supps on off days such as SAM-e and NAC are okay. Thanks Dr D.

I also agree with you on the Saw Palmetto btw. Not necessary unless you have prostate problems.

Dr. D, I know you're a big fan of hyperdrol x2, but what is the specific dosage and timing (days) you would take it while pulsing?
 
homesliceyea said:
... Dr. D, I know you're a big fan of hyperdrol x2, but what is the specific dosage and timing (days) you would take it while pulsing?
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I think using HDX2, or your test booster of choice, as your whole cycle is good (I just updated the original pulsing post to make this point better) so basically 4 caps/day is my favorite system so far. That way, you're really supplementing a daily test booster as your main core of the cycle with a potent oral to act like the octane booster on w/o days. Epi and HDX2 are not a problem together, they actually stack quite well. Epi does not lower estrogen as many think, just the opposite if anything, so don't confuse the SERM effect of Epi with the AI mechanism of HD. That said, 2 HDs on the off nights are probably plenty for most guys if you just want some insurance to keep bouncing, but 4 caps/day if you wanna kick test into high gear to add another dimension of gains to the pulse.
 
DR.D said:
but 4 caps/day if you wanna kick test into high gear to add another dimension of gains to the pulse.
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Wow, that is pretty cool! :D

I might have to give that a try for my second cycle. :D

But Dr. D, I have a question, say if I use 4 caps of HDX2 for my 8 weeks pulse cycle and then I want to do another 4 weeks post cycle therapy also with HDX2, that would totaled in 12 weeks on HDX2, would that be too long and excessive to be on an AI at that dosage?

And second question how do you dose 4 caps during on-cycle, just take all 4 before bedtime everyday or spread it out evenly throughout the day?
 
Solitude said:
Wow, that is pretty cool! :D

I might have to give that a try for my second cycle. :D

But Dr. D, I have a question, say if I use 4 caps of HDX2 for my 8 weeks pulse cycle and then I want to do another 4 weeks post cycle therapy also with HDX2, that would totaled in 12 weeks on HDX2, would that be too long and excessive to be on an AI at that dosage?

And second question how do you dose 4 caps during on-cycle, just take all 4 before bedtime everyday?
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You won't need HD wks 9-12. You won't need PCT at all with 4 caps of HD in the mix! But tor/MFX would be more than enough for a smooth, fast pct later if needed. I really doubt you'll need it though.

As for dosing, I take 1 cap every six hours (6am, noon, 6pm, midnight - that's right I never sleep! :)) or 1 in the morning, 1 afternoon, 2 before bed spaced out/8hrs if I'm on a 3x/day dosing regimen.
 
DR.D said:
You won't need HD wks 9-12. You won't need post cycle therapy at all with 4 caps of HD in the mix! But tor/MFX would be more than enough for a smooth, fast post cycle therapy later if needed. I really doubt you'll need it though.
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That's awesome! :D

DR.D said:
As for dosing, I take 1 cap every six hours (6am, noon, 6pm, midnight - that's right I never sleep! :)) or 1 in the morning, 1 afternoon, 2 before bed spaced out/8hrs if I'm on a 3x/day dosing regimen.
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LOL! You work too hard man. :D

Thanks a lot for still having the time to answer all my questions, always much appreciated!
 
:rant: Shiat like that p!sses me the fck off! :rant: I went to workout during one of the last winter storms when everyone was hiding at home and I found a couple of guys that work for the owner sitting in the gym watching ( I saw from the door ) tv. I knocked on the door and they start waving "oh sorry we're closed" and I was like :wtf: I was royally p!ssed off. I mean if I can come all the way there to work out in a storm the least they can do is flip on a few lights :rant:

Another time I went there an hour before closing and because it was quiet they decided to lock up for the day. I knocked on the door and the owner came and I was like "can I come work out?" basically "wtf!" and they replied "sure sure np come on in , we were just closing cause it was quiet!" :blink: Hours of operation anyone?

Stuff like this really gets to me:D

Another time I went into Canadian Tire ( think Walmart Yankees ) just about ten minutes before closing up for a few quick buys. Anyhow I needed help to find something and they were turning the lights off. This one girl came over ( feel sorry for her now a little ), and asked "is there anything I can help you with?" and I replied " well yes actually I am looking for "x" and she replied "oh well actually we are closing now so please make your way to the front", I just about fckin lost it :rant: I said to her " So what you actually meant was we're closing the store so get out NOT that you wanted to help me find this product? How about you say what you mean and mean what you say, don't say you want to help when really you just want us to get out!" She humbled up and helped me. I told her I wasn't trying to be an ******* but she should say what she means and mean what she says! :rant: Soon as I jumped into my p!ssed off correctioning my wife walked away :D

Look! don't fckn get me start ....ok! raaaaaaaawwwwwwr

and that's why folks I don't own guns!

Much Love

Neoborn

/hijack

poopypants said:
LOL i was a pizzaholic back then and walked up to the front doors for a carryout order he closed the doors right as i was walking up, he totally saw me, and it was like 20 min before close time... i know for a fact that it only takes 15 min to make a dominos pizza, ive had to wait for em before... any ways he tries telling me they are closed and only taking care of the rest of there deliveries and then started wlking away, i start cussing up a storm and kick the doors right in the middle and they flung open, i think he early shat himself.. after that i just walked away and got in my car caue i figured if i followed him into the store id end the night in jail... lol. wont ever forget the look on his face. :blink: :jaw: :toofunny:
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Just to clarify

1. HDX2 dose 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed

2. Milk Thistle? NAC or SAM-e only on off days???

3. HDX2 Not needed in PCT but go MFX weeks 9-12

4. Which is safer in relation to sides and / or has better gains 1,4AD bulk from NP or SuperDuperDrol?

Thanks much love

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
:rant: Shiat like that p!sses me the fck off! :rant: I went to workout during one of the last winter storms when everyone was hiding at home and I found a couple of guys that work for the owner sitting in the gym watching ( I saw from the door ) tv. I knocked on the door and they start waving "oh sorry we're closed" and I was like :wtf: I was royally p!ssed off. I mean if I can come all the way there to work out in a storm the least they can do is flip on a few lights :rant:

Another time I went there an hour before closing and because it was quiet they decided to lock up for the day. I knocked on the door and the owner came and I was like "can I come work out?" basically "wtf!" and they replied "sure sure np come on in , we were just closing cause it was quiet!" :blink: Hours of operation anyone?

Stuff like this really gets to me:D

Another time I went into Canadian Tire ( think Walmart Yankees ) just about ten minutes before closing up for a few quick buys. Anyhow I needed help to find something and they were turning the lights off. This one girl came over ( feel sorry for her now a little ), and asked "is there anything I can help you with?" and I replied " well yes actually I am looking for "x" and she replied "oh well actually we are closing now so please make your way to the front", I just about fckin lost it :rant: I said to her " So what you actually meant was we're closing the store so get out NOT that you wanted to help me find this product? How about you say what you mean and mean what you say, don't say you want to help when really you just want us to get out!" She humbled up and helped me. I told her I wasn't trying to be an ******* but she should say what she means and mean what she says! :rant: Soon as I jumped into my p!ssed off correctioning my wife walked away :D

Look! don't fckn get me start ....ok! raaaaaaaawwwwwwr

and that's why folks I don't own guns!

Much Love

Neoborn

/hijack
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Wow Neo, looks like the Thorazine wore off early this morning! lol

I can just imagine the futile resignation your wife must feel with you in public. That's gotta be so much fun! If I lived in Canada, I would definitely have to come harass you from time to time. :)
 
I was thinking of throwing in some zol with my epi pulse.

Could someone pulse for 4 weeks, then take 4 weeks off, and pulse for another 4 weeks and dodge PCT entirely?

I'd be using Epi/Zol 3x weekly, and either X-Lean or HDx2 on off days.
 
deadikated said:
... Could someone pulse for 4 weeks, then take 4 weeks off, and pulse for another 4 weeks and dodge post cycle therapy entirely? ...
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I don't see why not. Zol seems to have about the same pharmokinetics as an average methyl, at least as far as half-life, so treat it like a methyl on your dosing scheme. It's extra androgenic to me though when stacked with Epi. No hair loss or anything, just rough on the skin and sometimes headaches.
 
DR.D said:
I don't see why not. Zol seems to have about the same pharmokinetics as an average methyl, at least as far as half-life, so treat it like a methyl on your dosing scheme. It's extra androgenic to me though when stacked with Epi. No hair loss or anything, just rough on the skin and sometimes headaches.
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So after 12 weeks I shouldn't need any sort of PCT? Sounds good.

How long do you think someone could continue this routine until PCT would be necessary?
 
deadikated said:
So after 12 weeks I shouldn't need any sort of post cycle therapy? Sounds good.

How long do you think someone could continue this routine until PCT would be necessary?
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You shouldn't need pct, if you do the pulse properly! I admit, that means something different for everyone though. Some guys could only dose 12wks of Zol/Epi 3x/wk at 100/30 while others could get away with 4x/wk at 200/60 with no pct. You'll just have to experiment to see.

Leggo, Flossy, haroldjg and lots other guys on Neo's pulsing thread seem to have developed very detailed systems that are finely tailored to their idiosyncrasies and schedules. That's the real beauty of this system. There are basic rules and guidelines of course, but it's so flexible to the individual and allows for a lot of mixing, matching and experimentation.

Always have a emergency pct regimen on hand though, just in case anything goes wrong. And always have antibiotics stored in the fridge in case of infection! And walk straight home after school too... lol, J/K :) You get the idea.
 
neoborn said:
Just to clarify

1. HDX2 dose 4 caps a day - 1 morn, 1 afternoon, 2 pre bed

2. Milk Thistle? NAC or SAM-e only on off days???

3. HDX2 Not needed in post cycle therapy but go MFX weeks 9-12

4. Which is safer in relation to sides and / or has better gains 1,4AD bulk from NP or SuperDuperDrol?

Thanks much love

Neoborn
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This is crazy talk Neo! OK, here goes:

1. Yes, best plan for gains and enhancing bounce simultaneously IMO.

2. No MT if it's me, NAC yes & SAMe yes, preferable off days or post anabolic dose if daily.

3. Yes, for his plan. MFX is a sweet bridge with any plan.

4. SuperDuperDrol? Hmmm, who makes this stuff! 1,4-AD is nice, just takes so much of it to do anything. It's a mild AI though so it's a great pulsing option, like weak formestane in effect basically. I liked the diol version better.
 
Thanks D! :thumbsup:

Also is formestane any kind of decent SERM / PCT? What would it be classified as?

Much love,

Neo "This is MADNESS!" Born
 
Dr.D- Lots of good information, thanks from all of us! Question for you if you don't mind. I'm about to start an EPI clone pulse cycle and I'm doing a lot research/reading. I've noticed that quite a few people who have done this have used DHEA on off days. How do you feel about DHEA on off days? Would 7-Keto be a better choice or is neither really needed? I plan an 8 week pulse while cutting. I'd like to add some LBM but get rid of some fat. Thanks.
 
Thanks for the taking the time Doc - I think I'll try this approach. I'll put a results post in Neo's thread afterwords. Looking forward to it! :cheers:

DR.D said:
I would pulse something like this:

PRE/POST

1 - 20/10 mg superdrol - 100/200 mg 1AD
2 - 20/10 mg superdrol - 200/200 mg 1AD
3 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/300 mg 1AD
4 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD
5 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD
6 - 20/20 mg superdrol - 200/400 mg 1AD

Some of both pre and post, favoring higher dose methyl pre and higher dose non-methyl post (just based on t1/2 and not A/A ratios in this case). I'm not sure I would exceed 40mg on the superdrol. I start getting really "alpha" even just at 40, but maybe you're better at that than I. :)
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Dr. D

I've just been reading about Anabolic Xtreme's new product the Trisorbagen, and it looks very interesting, I'm keen to give this a try for my second pulse cycle.

What is your propose dosing protocol for this supplement if I want to incorporate it into my next pulse cycle?


This is how I layout my next cycle:

On-Cycle (60 Days):

CEL P-Plex (Total Usage = 24 Workout Days):
Day 1-58 = Pulse 30 mg on Workout Days

Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2 (dose 1 cap at 9am, dose 1 cap at 3pm and dose 2 caps at 9pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 4 caps ED

Anabolic Xtreme Retain 2 (dose 1 cap at 6am, and 1 cap at 2pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 2 caps on Off-Days only

Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen = ??? Should I dose this ED, say 3 times a day (6am, 12pm, 6pm) or should I just dose it only on workout days together with my PP?


Does Trisorbagen need to be taken specifically at the same time with the PP to enhance the absorption ability, or it can just be spread evenly throughout the day and still have the exact same effects?






Ok after thinking about it for 5 minutes I've come up with this dosing protocol, maybe something like this would be optimal?

Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen (On OFF-DAYS dose it at the same time with HDX2, 1 cap at 9am, 1 cap at 3pm and 1 cap at 9pm. On Workout-Days dose 1 cap at 9am with HDX2, 1 cap Pre-Workout together with P-Plex, and 1 cap at 9pm with HDX2)
Day 1-60 = 3 caps ED


What is your opinion on this?
 
neoborn said:
Thanks D! :thumbsup:

Also is formestane any kind of decent SERM / post cycle therapy? What would it be classified as?

Much love,

Neo "This is MADNESS!" Born
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neo formastane is a "suicide inhibitor".... its only an AI. not the same action as a SERM.
 
Solitude said:
Dr. D

I've just been reading about Anabolic Xtreme's new product the Trisorbagen, and it looks very interesting, I'm keen to give this a try for my second pulse cycle.

What is your propose dosing protocol for this supplement if I want to incorporate it into my next pulse cycle?


This is how I layout my next cycle:

On-Cycle (60 Days):

CEL P-Plex (Total Usage = 24 Workout Days):
Day 1-58 = Pulse 30 mg on Workout Days

Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2 (dose 1 cap at 9am, dose 1 cap at 3pm and dose 2 caps at 9pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 4 caps ED

Anabolic Xtreme Retain 2 (dose 1 cap at 6am, and 1 cap at 2pm) (Total Usage = 60 Days):
Day 1-60 = 2 caps on Off-Days only

Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen = ??? Should I dose this ED, say 3 times a day (6am, 12pm, 6pm) or should I just dose it only on workout days together with my PP?


Does Trisorbagen need to be taken specifically at the same time with the PP to enhance the absorption ability, or it can just be spread evenly throughout the day and still have the exact same effects?






Ok after thinking about it for 5 minutes I've come up with this dosing protocol, maybe something like this would be optimal?

Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen (On OFF-DAYS dose it at the same time with HDX2, 1 cap at 9am, 1 cap at 3pm and 1 cap at 9pm. On Workout-Days dose 1 cap at 9am with HDX2, 1 cap Pre-Workout together with P-Plex, and 1 cap at 9pm with HDX2)
Day 1-60 = 3 caps ED


What is your opinion on this?
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heres the answer to your trisob questions..... cept the dosing .. youd want to take it the same time as PP... thats why its together in one pill in 3-AD.

Dr.D said:
poopypants said:
so tell me does trisorbagen work with the very first dose and every dose or is it something that has to be taken 3 times a day every day to get a built up effect for it to start working?

my reasoning behind this question mainly is to see if this would be something to help benifit a pulse type cycle where the ph is take usually in the morning (at least all before 6pm) and only taken 3 or 4 times a week. could this help if one single pill is taken with every dose preworkout on the workout days?

would you get all the effects of alma from single doses or do they have to build up in the system as well to show there own effects?
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Yes and no.

You will achieve an immediate benefit in absorption and effect from even just 1 dose a day, but the DHB has cummulative activity so after a few days it likely peaks. The Bio is time/dose specific so just whenever you need to take it, it works, and the amla is way overdosed in the formula anyway so even taking it once a day is better than nothing. EOD may be pushing it though.

So yeah, it still helps to a high degee no matter how or when you take it, if that makes sense. 3x/day, ED is the most efficient method though, of course.
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DR.D said:
You shouldn't need post cycle therapy, if you do the pulse properly! I admit, that means something different for everyone though. Some guys could only dose 12wks of Zol/Epi 3x/wk at 100/30 while others could get away with 4x/wk at 200/60 with no post cycle therapy. You'll just have to experiment to see.

Leggo, Flossy, haroldjg and lots other guys on Neo's pulsing thread seem to have developed very detailed systems that are finely tailored to their idiosyncrasies and schedules. That's the real beauty of this system. There are basic rules and guidelines of course, but it's so flexible to the individual and allows for a lot of mixing, matching and experimentation.

Always have a emergency post cycle therapy regimen on hand though, just in case anything goes wrong. And always have antibiotics stored in the fridge in case of infection! And walk straight home after school too... lol, J/K :) You get the idea.
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Well in my most recent cycles I've been able to push zol up to the 300 range. Would this not be advised because of the pulse?

I was also thinking of working epi up to 50mg. However if I break it into 4 week sessions with 4 week breaks in between, I was going to stick to no more than 40mg.

I weigh in the 235lb range depending on the day...if that means anything.
 
Well f*ck it I know I said I was going to wait until Sept for another SD*/PP pulse, but I just finally got done w/ occ. therapy from a p*ssy a$$ kneeboarding accident in late June. Last wk jumped right into it like a f*cking as$hole- Mon-40SD/45PP, Tue 20SD/15PP, Thurs 40SD/45PP by Friday I was a complete d*ck. So this week I went back to my original formula and will stick with it...30/30-30/30-30/30--40/30-40/30-40/30 for the next 4 weeks. Last time I blew up 16 lbs in the 1st 3.5 wks @ 6,000 cals daily. We'll see how I fair. Strength still up there size not so much
 
Who here has pulsed EPI and winztrol/prostan/orastan-E? If so, what was your max dosage and hold long was the cycle? What was your PCT?

I'm taking my 3rd dose tomorrow and will be taking 30 mg of EPI and 150 mg of ZOL. Is this too much for an 8-10 week pulse? I took 20 mg EPI and 150 mg ZOL on monday and I am starting to get a little acne, but nothing serious at all.

Also, did you take the ZOL pre workout or the EPI pre workout?
 
neoborn said:
Thanks D! :thumbsup:

Also is formestane any kind of decent SERM / post cycle therapy? What would it be classified as?

Much love,

Neo "This is MADNESS!" Born
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Yes sir, good stuff in post cycle therapy! I don't care what you've heard about "androgenic metabolites", it's great in PCT and you can quote me on that. It has the dual gonadotropic action of not only being an AI but a 5a-reductase inhibitor too, which kicks both FSH and LH in gear faster than just one or the other.

It is not a SERM to my knowledge. Just a good, irreversible suicide substrate for aromatase. It's not as rough on libido as you might suspect either, but not as clean as 6-Br in that regard, which is still my fav.

I do like formestane on cycle and at the beginning of PCT. Shutdown is delayed, hCG results are better insured in combination, it attenuates adverse metabolism of "dirty" compounds like test though controlled metabolism, etc..
 
edvanp said:
Dr.D- Lots of good information, thanks from all of us! Question for you if you don't mind. I'm about to start an EPI clone pulse cycle and I'm doing a lot research/reading. I've noticed that quite a few people who have done this have used DHEA on off days. How do you feel about DHEA on off days? Would 7-Keto be a better choice or is neither really needed? I plan an 8 week pulse while cutting. I'd like to add some LBM but get rid of some fat. Thanks.
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Thanks for the love edvanp! I have no problem at all with DHEA on off days. I'm one of the people that likes DHEA. I even use it in PCT. It will sub for 7-keto just fine and I do think something like this (cort blocker) is helpful on the off days.
 
Solitude said:
... Ok after thinking about it for 5 minutes I've come up with this dosing protocol, maybe something like this would be optimal?

Anabolic Xtreme Trisorbagen (On OFF-DAYS dose it at the same time with HDX2, 1 cap at 9am, 1 cap at 3pm and 1 cap at 9pm. On Workout-Days dose 1 cap at 9am with HDX2, 1 cap Pre-Workout together with P-Plex, and 1 cap at 9pm with HDX2)
Day 1-60 = 3 caps ED


What is your opinion on this?
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Yes, take it with your dose if you can, but it covers hours so you have a window after you take it. For example, if you dose it pre-w/o with your anabolic of choice, it will still be in your system so you don't need it again post-w/o, necessarily, of course that would not hurt anything though.

If you're dosing Trisorb with a meal, that's ideal, and you can even take it with meals on off days just for the improved calorie utilization. Take the Trisorb with a big drink of water. Then eat, then take your anabolic after the meal. That way the Trisorb get's a little head start to begin working while you eat and before you take the anabolic.
 
deadikated said:
Well in my most recent cycles I've been able to push zol up to the 300 range. Would this not be advised because of the pulse?

I was also thinking of working epi up to 50mg. However if I break it into 4 week sessions with 4 week breaks in between, I was going to stick to no more than 40mg.

I weigh in the 235lb range depending on the day...if that means anything.
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Sure, that could work. I like zol at the 225-275 range myself, you got about 15lbs on me though so your dose does not sound that outrageous.
 
homesliceyea said:
... I took 20 mg EPI and 150 mg ZOL on monday and I am starting to get a little acne, but nothing serious at all. ...
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I warned you that combo was a little androgenic! 60/250 gives pretty good headaches too sometimes, along with the acne. :)
 
DR.D said:
Yes, take it with your dose if you can, but it covers hours so you have a window after you take it. For example, if you dose it pre-w/o with your anabolic of choice, it will still be in your system so you don't need it again post-w/o, necessarily, of course that would not hurt anything though.

If you're dosing Trisorb with a meal, that's ideal, and you can even take it with meals on off days just for the improved calorie utilization. Take the Trisorb with a big drink of water. Then eat, then take your anabolic after the meal. That way the Trisorb get's a little head start to begin working while you eat and before you take the anabolic.
Click to expand...

I'll do that. Thanks for the tips D!
 
DR.D said:
Sure, that could work. I like zol at the 225-275 range myself, you got about 15lbs on me though so your dose does not sound that outrageous.
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Thanks Doc.

I think I'm going to go with the two four week pulses and just try to dodge PCT all together.
 
1) In addition to my ACT extreme question, does anyone know why DrD is against milk thistle use but not against using NAC, SAMe, Liv52, etc while pulsing? How about Liver Longer by Thermolife? Is it that only MT messes with the androgen receptor? I thought it also has to do with anything increasing liver function causing absorption problems. However, maybe this is a non-issue if you wait until off days...i'm sure all of the drug has been processed by then.

2) Again, anyone know how activate extreme should be incorporated into a pulse, if at all?

Last question:

3) Anyone run EPI and Prostan/orastan-E/ZOL pulse? If so, what dosage and for how long? I am currently doing this and I am up to 30 mg EPI and 150 mg ZOL. I'm thinking of going up to 200 mg ZOL and leaving the EPI at 30 mg and continuing at that for 5-6 weeks, then ramping down and coming off. Probably will need a PCT with toremifene but not sure. I have mass fx and have been dosing HDX2 normally. Probably will not use HDX2 in PCT thought b/c using it a lot now. Will this cause gyno problems if I stop it prior to PCT and just us a serm? Should I ramp it down and if so, when?
 
Does anyone think my pulse idea of epi/superdrol/revolt is over the top? it will be moderately dosed, I think shooting for 20/20/75, maybe end up as high as 30/20/125 depending on where I stand come the 2nd week. hdx2 on off days, 150-300mg adrenosterone taken ED (just for cotrisol control). 9 week total, 4 weeks on with epi/superdrol/revolt, 1 week break from them while still taking the hdx2 + adrenosterone, then 4 more weeks.
 
Mass FX

Oh yeah I forgot to ask something.

D, you mentioned that if I run 4 caps of HDX2 during my pulse I would hardly need PCT, but you recommend to add some MFX, what is your recommended dosage for MFX during that PCT?
 
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