Wife Has COVID-19

[Jiigzz]

You bet? What's next, you 'assume'? Oh right, youre already there. You're also wrong there.

The people I know first hand that had bad experiences, including hospitalization, were ecstatic to get the vax, so again, you miss the mark. No one around me in my line of work is being forced to vax.

I'm sure you're also aware VAERS reports were sky high before the vax was mandated anywhere. Right? Why do you feel the need to minimize any negative aspects of the vax, which are proven to exist?

It's strange that you call me out for making an assumption, yet the majority of the information you post is literally assumption based and erroneous.

Of course there are negative aspects to the vax, hence the side effects.

But it is you who is posting twitter feeds of verifiable false and misleading info in an attempt to fear mongering in a public platform.

Most of the claims I called you out on you haven't even come back to back up. It's almost like you don't care that the info you post is wrong as long as you think someone might fall for it.

If the claims could be back, then it could make for discussion but instead people who attempt to highlight the flaws of using 2 data points and the drawing of erroneous conclusions between them (you can find correlation between any dataset if you try hard enough) are accused of being closed minded or pro-mandate which is not even close to the truth.

People can absolutely be anti mandate but pro vaccination. Those are 2 separate discussion points. I can be pro education but anti mandating everyone go to college. And so on and so forth.

 

[poison]

Oh no, I just haven't gotten to that yet. I'm not ignoring anything.

'majority' and 'most'? Nope. Not even close.

 

[Ricky10]

You see a lot of people in your practice where blood thinners help get over Covid? Kids? I believe I do recall one person mentioning baby aspirin now that I think about it. Although aren’t they now saying that isn’t good for heart stuff?

Hard to remember everything I feel like you need to make this crap your day job to keep all the info in order. Why I typically stick to being anti mandate instead of anything else.

We don’t have a pediatric unit, but I do know we follow typical blood clot protocols for COVID patients just like anyone else who is admitted and at risk for blood clots due to immobility etc. So it’s not a blanket COVID specific “treatment“ for everyone. I’m not up on any of the latest aspirin recommendations regarding anything to be honest

 

[johnsar]

I didn't say either of those things. I just listed the facts as the CDC has presented them, since people who tend to disagree with me on the current situation do tend to trust what the CDC shares. the CDC has essentially deemed C19 to essentially the same risk as the flu. The CDC also has posted that the vax does have heightened risk for minors. the NIH has listed Ivermectin as a treatment for C19. The govt is trying to push a Jan 4th mandate for vax even though we know the vax loses it's efficacy after an average of 211 days. Studies suggest natural immunity could be life long to some degree.

In regards to continuing on a post that includes Puccah's passing, it's difficult but I don't find it to be distasteful or disrespectful. Her suffering and loss is a painful reminder to all of us that regardless of where you stand on this topic, there are real risks at hand, there is a real virus. People should ask themselves if they're seeking to support their personal bias and narrative, or if they're looking for truth. The truth is people have died, we can't argue that. The question at hand I believe, is what is the answer. Is there one? Is it natural immunity and a healthy lifestyle or is it a man made vaccination? Is death a natural part of life?

I have a 12yr old son who is the single most important thing in my life beyond any other family member or friend. I would immediately give up my life for his. When he had C19 at 11 last winter, he was never bothered more than minor sniffles and enjoyed 2 weeks of video games. (although he did his school work daily as well. his work ethic blows my mind)

because of my experience:

A. I know more people who have suffered from vax than c19
B. I watched my son recover and wasn't hurt in the least

I, personally, am not willing to inject my son with an experimental vaccine still under EUA shields.

Its pretty sad that people still haven't figured out there is no "Vaccine" Its a bioweapon with a host of disgusting ingredients including formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, mercury, glutaraldehyde ,ABORTED FETAL CELLS, Fetal bovine serum, e. coli, DNA from a pig , among others...But im sure you've just down by now and stopped reading
To this day Covid has never been isolated.
No Idea why someone would want to inject themselves with something when they have no idea what is in it?
Mind boggling

 

[Jiigzz]

Oh no, I just haven't gotten to that yet. I'm not ignoring anything.

'majority' and 'most'? Nope. Not even close.

It can take 2 seconds to create a statement which takes hours to refute. And that is the danger. Because in that time hundreds, if not thousands of people have interacted with the original claim, regardless of whether it actually has any merit or not.

An example of this is that somehow the statement "on average we eat 8 spiders in our lifetime" has somehow become something many of us from around the world have taken at face value as true. But where did the claim originate? It certainly wasn't researched. In fact, a common understanding of this is that the person made it up to show how fast misinformation can spread on the internet.

But be honest, how many of us have heard this and palmed it off as fact?

Now imagine the same concept but with a topic that actually matters. Same outcome

 

[Jiigzz]

Its pretty sad that people still haven't figured out there is no "Vaccine" Its a bioweapon with a host of disgusting ingredients including formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, mercury, glutaraldehyde ,ABORTED FETAL CELLS, Fetal bovine serum, e. coli, DNA from a pig , among others...But im sure you've just down by now and stopped reading
To this day Covid has never been isolated.
No Idea why someone would want to inject themselves with something when they have no idea what is in it?
Mind boggling

I also heard it contains the DNA of Hitler, the entire Red Army and the cast of cinematic masterpiece "Shawshank Redemption".

Disgusting if you ask me.

 

[poison]

It can take 2 seconds to create a statement which takes hours to refute. And that is the danger. Because in that time hundreds, if not thousands of people have interacted with the original claim, regardless of whether it actually has any merit or not.

An example of this is that somehow the statement "on average we eat 8 spiders in our lifetime" has somehow become something many of us from around the world have taken at face value as true. But where did the claim originate? It certainly wasn't researched. In fact, a common understanding of this is that the person made it up to show how fast misinformation can spread on the internet.

But be honest, how many of us have heard this and palmed it off as fact?

Now imagine the same concept but with a topic that actually matters. Same outcome

Yes, I'm well aware, we've been experiencing this for years now: russian collusion, kavanaugh rape, neil ferguson's '2 MILLION WILL DIE' that kicked this all off, and let's not forget Biden's 'if you're vaxxed you won't get this virus'.

 

[Dustin07]

https://cf5e727d-d02d-4d71-89ff-9fe2d3ad957f.filesusr.com/ugd/adf864_2bd97450072f4364a65e5cf1d7384dd4.pdf?fbclid=IwAR32QBkOohNa86JAANwBwQoBi4Taj1AqvKsRv7F_93vDxEvzxJMHvn5P_Cc

"
In this article, we draw attention to these errors and recalculate the risk of this outcome based on the
cohort that was exposed to the vaccine before 20 weeks’ gestation. Our re-analysis indicates a
cumulative incidence of spontaneous abortion 7 to 8 times higher than the original authors’ results
(p < 0.001) and the typical average for pregnancy loss during this time period. In light of these findings,
key policy decisions have been made using unreliable and questionable data. We conclude that the
claims made using these data on the safety of exposure of women in early pregnancy to mRNA-based
vaccines to prevent COVID-19 are unwarranted and recommend that those policy decisions be "

 

[poison]

'key policy decisions have been made using unreliable and questionable data'

SHUT UP PLEBE AND TAKE YOUR SHOT

 

[poison]

Senior NIH expert pushes back on growing vaccine mandates | TheHill

• An unvaccinated doctor who heads a research team at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Disease is leading a debate within the National Institute of Health over the ethics of COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
• Matthew Memoli reportedly wrote in an email to NAID Director Anthony Fauci in July that he found mandated vaccinations “extraordinarily problematic.”
• “I think the way we are using the vaccines is wrong,” he told Fauci.

An unvaccinated doctor who heads a research team at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID) is leading a debate within the National Institute of Health (NIH) over the ethics of COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
Matthew Memoli, a 16-year veteran at the NIH, will argue against vaccine mandates in a Dec. 1 live-streamed roundtable session over the ethics of mandates, which will be open for viewing within the agency, to patients and to the public, The Wall Street Journal reported.
“There’s a lot of debate within the NIH about whether [a vaccine mandate] is appropriate,” David Wendler, a senior NIH bioethicist in charge of planning the session, told WSJ. “It’s an important, hot topic.”
An appeals court on Saturday temporarily stopped President Biden’s mandate requiring employers to verify employee vaccination or ensure weekly testing.
Memoli reportedly wrote in an email to NIAID Director Anthony Fauci in July that he found mandated vaccinations “extraordinarily problematic.”
“I think the way we are using the vaccines is wrong,” he told Fauci.

Memoli, who has reportedly applied for vaccine exemptions, favors vaccinations in vulnerable populations but argues population level vaccination could hinder the development of a natural, robust immunity gained through infection.
The 48-year-old has said his children have received their childhood vaccinations, and he will support the results of the ethics discussion regardless of the outcome.
“I do vaccine trials. I, in fact, help create vaccines,” he told WSJ. “Part of my career is to share my expert opinions, right or wrong.…I mean, if they all end up saying I’m wrong, that’s fine. I want to have the discussion.”
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published new findings last month that suggest vaccines are the most effective protection against the virus.
The data in the study “demonstrate that vaccination can provide a higher, more robust, and more consistent level of immunity to protect people from hospitalization for COVID-19 than infection alone for at least 6 months.”


Cracks in the wall appear.

 

[Tunaking14]

I like that you doubled down on it.

There are more and more people dying from hunger now than ever before! It is definitely the vaccine!

Can I ask how many of these news articles you've gone through and verified the vaccination status of the people involved? I've only found 1 so far that has, and the rest literally mention nothing. Have you gone through yourself and checked this? Or are you just throwing so much sh*t at the wall you're hoping something sticks?

How do you know the athletes didn't have covid? We know covid affects the vascular system, so why are we dismissing that?

Some of the articles posted are not even linked to the heart- one just says "he got dizzy". Why did that make it onto the list?

Actually, what is dishonest is you posting random fear mongering crap in a thread where someone we all know has died from covid. If you wanted to have an evidence based chat, then cool let's do that, but all you're doing is posting a bunch of random links about athletes dropping due to heart issues and saying "THIS CANNOT BE IGNORED" without any actual evidence.

Sea levels are rising, must be the vaccine

Elon Musk was the first person to hit 300B - must be the vaccine

Global oil deposits are decreasing - must be the vaccine.

If you actually cared about research, you'd read articles like this rather than take a list created by someone else showing people dropping due to heart issues and then just saying "the coincidence is too much to ignore, IT MUST BE THE VACCINE" when these events have literally been studied for years, AND the majority the links do not mention or verify vaccination status, they make the wild assumption they are all vaccinated.

If you're just trying to find more obscure reasons to not vaccinate, all the more power to you. But when you come into a public space and then try use random news stories about 1 particular topic to back your anti vaccination rhetoric, then expect to be called out on it.

Sudden Cardiac Death in Athletes

Sudden cardiac death is a tragedy at any age and under any circumstances but is perhaps most tragic when it claims the life of the athlete, the indivi…

www.sciencedirect.com

Jesus..........you are brain washed big time........... take your vaccine if you want and leave the rest of us alone.......you can't show me one long term study that shows mRNA vaccines are safe.......................people are dying because of the vaccine and you ignore that.........people still get the virus and can still spread it.........

 

[Tunaking14]

I like that you doubled down on it.

There are more and more people dying from hunger now than ever before! It is definitely the vaccine!

Can I ask how many of these news articles you've gone through and verified the vaccination status of the people involved? I've only found 1 so far that has, and the rest literally mention nothing. Have you gone through yourself and checked this? Or are you just throwing so much sh*t at the wall you're hoping something sticks?

How do you know the athletes didn't have covid? We know covid affects the vascular system, so why are we dismissing that?

Some of the articles posted are not even linked to the heart- one just says "he got dizzy". Why did that make it onto the list?

Actually, what is dishonest is you posting random fear mongering crap in a thread where someone we all know has died from covid. If you wanted to have an evidence based chat, then cool let's do that, but all you're doing is posting a bunch of random links about athletes dropping due to heart issues and saying "THIS CANNOT BE IGNORED" without any actual evidence.

Sea levels are rising, must be the vaccine

Elon Musk was the first person to hit 300B - must be the vaccine

Global oil deposits are decreasing - must be the vaccine.

If you actually cared about research, you'd read articles like this rather than take a list created by someone else showing people dropping due to heart issues and then just saying "the coincidence is too much to ignore, IT MUST BE THE VACCINE" when these events have literally been studied for years, AND the majority the links do not mention or verify vaccination status, they make the wild assumption they are all vaccinated.

If you're just trying to find more obscure reasons to not vaccinate, all the more power to you. But when you come into a public space and then try use random news stories about 1 particular topic to back your anti vaccination rhetoric, then expect to be called out on it.

Sudden Cardiac Death in Athletes

Sudden cardiac death is a tragedy at any age and under any circumstances but is perhaps most tragic when it claims the life of the athlete, the indivi…

www.sciencedirect.com

Jesus..........you are brain washed big time........... take your vaccine if you want and leave the rest of us alone.......you can't show me one long term study that shows mRNA vaccines are safe.......................people are dying because of the vaccine and you ignore that.........people still get the virus and can still spread it.........

 

[Jiigzz]

Jesus..........you are brain washed big time........... take your vaccine if you want and leave the rest of us alone.......you can't show me one long term study that shows mRNA vaccines are safe.......................people are dying because of the vaccine and you ignore that.........people still get the virus and can still spread it.........

I have literally no idea who you are......... What do you mean by "leave you alone"........ you literally decided to interject yourself in this conversation. ........

I think the real question is whether you even understand what an mRNA vaccine is.......or whether you are just mad because you read a Facebook post that told you to be afraid......

..

.................... ..... ................ ........... ............ ........................ ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... .................... ..... ................ ........... ............ ........................ ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... .................... ..... ................ ........... ............ ........................ ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... .................... ..... ................ ........... ............ ........................ ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ...................... ..... ..

 

[Jiigzz]

Senior NIH expert pushes back on growing vaccine mandates | TheHill

• An unvaccinated doctor who heads a research team at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Disease is leading a debate within the National Institute of Health over the ethics of COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
• Matthew Memoli reportedly wrote in an email to NAID Director Anthony Fauci in July that he found mandated vaccinations “extraordinarily problematic.”
• “I think the way we are using the vaccines is wrong,” he told Fauci.

An unvaccinated doctor who heads a research team at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID) is leading a debate within the National Institute of Health (NIH) over the ethics of COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
Matthew Memoli, a 16-year veteran at the NIH, will argue against vaccine mandates in a Dec. 1 live-streamed roundtable session over the ethics of mandates, which will be open for viewing within the agency, to patients and to the public, The Wall Street Journal reported.
“There’s a lot of debate within the NIH about whether [a vaccine mandate] is appropriate,” David Wendler, a senior NIH bioethicist in charge of planning the session, told WSJ. “It’s an important, hot topic.”
An appeals court on Saturday temporarily stopped President Biden’s mandate requiring employers to verify employee vaccination or ensure weekly testing.
Memoli reportedly wrote in an email to NIAID Director Anthony Fauci in July that he found mandated vaccinations “extraordinarily problematic.”
“I think the way we are using the vaccines is wrong,” he told Fauci.

Memoli, who has reportedly applied for vaccine exemptions, favors vaccinations in vulnerable populations but argues population level vaccination could hinder the development of a natural, robust immunity gained through infection.
The 48-year-old has said his children have received their childhood vaccinations, and he will support the results of the ethics discussion regardless of the outcome.
“I do vaccine trials. I, in fact, help create vaccines,” he told WSJ. “Part of my career is to share my expert opinions, right or wrong.…I mean, if they all end up saying I’m wrong, that’s fine. I want to have the discussion.”
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published new findings last month that suggest vaccines are the most effective protection against the virus.
The data in the study “demonstrate that vaccination can provide a higher, more robust, and more consistent level of immunity to protect people from hospitalization for COVID-19 than infection alone for at least 6 months.”


Cracks in the wall appear.

His argument is against mandates, first and foremost. That is an entirely separate discussion.

It's entirely reasonable to be anti mandates. If you also don't want to get the vax, then fine. The reason I responded to this thread isn't because those 2 views are not reasonable, it's because you were posting them in an attempt (overt or otherwise) to convince other people the vaxxes are dangerous. That evidence isnt just flawed, in some cases the conclusions being drawn are just wild accusations that hinges on the loosest coincidence. That, in my view, is simply not reasonable and deserves to be called out.

As an added extra, his interview about the flu vaccine is worth a listen or read:

Dr. Matthew Memoli — A Better Shot Against the Flu | NIH Intramural Research Program

irp.nih.gov

 

[rob112]

Yes, I'm well aware, we've been experiencing this for years now: russian collusion, kavanaugh rape, neil ferguson's '2 MILLION WILL DIE' that kicked this all off, and let's not forget Biden's 'if you're vaxxed you won't get this virus'.

I saved his tweet “it’s simple get the vaccine or wear a mask” and post it on occasion…no fact check. I posted a picture of a mean looking girl doll that said “I have a feeling this doll is going to lecture me about climate change” and Facebook took it down no warning.

It’s almost as if there is a bias on what opinions are allowed. Very illiberal society we have become.

 

[rob112]

His argument is against mandates, first and foremost. That is an entirely separate discussion.

Did you also read the last paragraph? And something that was strangely omitted was this: "Part of my career is to share my expert opinions, right or wrong.…I mean, if they all end up saying I’m wrong, that’s fine. I want to have the discussion."

So even he acknowledges that he could be wrong, but that having the discussion matters. What will you do or say if he does end up being wrong?

You still working on the response to all the other stuff you posted earlier? Or are you hoping the 1 bolded sentence from that Dr is a get out of jail free card for the misinformation you posted earlier?

As an added extra, his interview about the flu vaccine is worth a listen or read:

Dr. Matthew Memoli — A Better Shot Against the Flu | NIH Intramural Research Program

irp.nih.gov

That is only reason that is “strangely omitted” is because we live in a weird time where people say things like “the science is settled” or Fauci “you question me you question science.” That statement should be a given, and it used to be. I believe we are regressing in terms of scientific discussion in the public sphere. We seem to be moving closer to Galileo type times but instead of the theological church it’s the state church.

I do appreciate that you separate mandates vs efficacy. Seriously not being sarcastic or anything.

 

[Jiigzz]

That is only reason that is “strangely omitted” is because we live in a weird time where people say things like “the science is settled” or Fauci “you question me you question science.” That statement should be a given, and it used to be. I believe we are regressing in terms of scientific discussion in the public sphere. We seem to be moving closer to Galileo type times but instead of the theological church it’s the state church.

I do appreciate that you separate mandates vs efficacy. Seriously not being sarcastic or anything.

I think a lot of people can agree that mandating things is not the way to go.

 

[poison]

His argument is against mandates, first and foremost. That is an entirely separate discussion.

It's entirely reasonable to be anti mandates. If you also don't want to get the vax, then fine. The reason I responded to this thread isn't because those 2 views are not reasonable, it's because you were posting them in an attempt (overt or otherwise) to convince other people the vaxxes are dangerous. That evidence isnt just flawed, in some cases the conclusions being drawn are just wild accusations that hinges on the loosest coincidence. That, in my view, is simply not reasonable and deserves to be called out.

As an added extra, his interview about the flu vaccine is worth a listen or read:

Dr. Matthew Memoli — A Better Shot Against the Flu | NIH Intramural Research Program

irp.nih.gov

What was omitted now? Read it again. That is smack in the middle of the text I quoted.

 

[Jiigzz]

What was omitted now? Read it again. That is smack in the middle of the text I quoted.

Omitted was the wrong word. But it's an important quote. Being wrong is common in science. It's how it works.

He was one of the first people to say that we need to start working on a vaccine way back in 2020, and wrote a pretty decent article on it.

 

[poison]

Mandates and efficacy can be separated, in some cases, but not in this one. For example, if this were ebola, the vaccine was effective at preventing ebola, and not getting the vax meant not only your face melted off, but 70% of those infected bled from their eyeballs and died, well, a mandate would probably not be required to coerce people into getting the vax, but a mandate could make sense.

In this instance, we have a disease that you generally don't know you have unless you take a test, 99.97xx% of people survive it, the people who die with it have 3-4 severe preexisting conditions on average and are elderly, and the vaccine doesn't prevent much of anything at all. So not only are mandates idiotic, but the idiocy of them hinges on the lack of efficacy, and nothing else.

And that's even before getting into the additional idiocy of mandating a vaccine designed for alpha, when the dominant strain now is delta, and possibly moving into a.30 or mu or whatever the next variant will be called, and without having a fucking clue who has natural immunity and who doesn't, whether the vax interfere with immunity (it likely does), and other pressing questions.

EVERYONE MUST VAX OR FACE CONSEQUENCES! WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING, BUT WE ARE DOING SOMETHING*, AND GOD HELP YOU IF YOU GET IN OUR WAY

*in the name of public health and the good of all, of course

 

[rob112]

Mandates and efficacy can be separated, in some cases, but not in this one. For example, if this were ebola, the vaccine was effective at preventing ebola, and not getting the vax meant not only your face melted off, but 70% of those infected bled from their eyeballs and died, well, a mandate would probably not be required to coerce people into getting the vax, but a mandate could make sense.

In this instance, we have a disease that you generally don't know you have unless you take a test, 99.97xx% of people survive it, the people who die with it have 3-4 severe preexisting conditions on average and are elderly, and the vaccine doesn't prevent much of anything at all. So not only are mandates idiotic, but the idiocy of them hinges on the lack of efficacy, and nothing else.

And that's even before getting into the additional idiocy of mandating a vaccine designed for alpha, when the dominant strain now is delta, and possibly moving into a.30 or mu or whatever the next variant will be called, and without having a fucking clue who has natural immunity and who doesn't, whether the vax interfere with immunity (it likely does), and other pressing questions.

EVERYONE MUST VAX OR FACE CONSEQUENCES! WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING, BUT WE ARE DOING SOMETHING*, AND GOD HELP YOU IF YOU GET IN OUR WAY

*in the name of public health and the good of all, of course

I would argue even if say the vax stopped Covid there would at least be an argument but it doesn’t. I really do not think there is any leg to stand on for the mandate. If something that low of risk with no cure is worth loss of liberty just extrapolate that out to things like driving, fast food, sedentary lifestyle, unprotected sex, etc etc and we could very quickly move into a totalitarian state.

Many genocidal regimes in history committed their atrocities for “the greater good” and they had ideas of building a Utopia…you know what they did to people they thought were in the way of the utopia. It’s just nuts to me knowing history and knowing there is a totalitarian tendency in man that people even risk any steps in that direction. I believe it is ignorance. “It can’t happen here, that only happens in China, Vietnam, North Korea, Iran, Ethiopia, France(revolution and napoleonic wars), germany, Russia, Japan, US(regards to native Americans and African Americans), Cuba, and so on and so on.” Essentially natural or negative rights has not been the norm in all of human history.

Anxiety ridden risk adverse high time preference individuals have way too much sway in the west.

 

[mechka_grizli]

In this instance, we have a disease that you generally don't know you have unless you take a test, 99.97xx% of people survive it, the people who die with it have 3-4 severe preexisting conditions on average and are elderly

......In this very thread, your statement has been proven to be false. People die from this virus. I personally know people who have died. HEALTHY people. 35 year old co worker, who did Triathlons and wouldn't touch anything unhealthy even if it was free. Killed him, yet my severely overweight coworker who can barely walk up a flight of stairs without being winded, said it felt like the common cold. Old people get it and are fine, yet it killed a middle school girl in my state last month. We gotta stop with this "ONLY" kills xyz. I disagree with mandates and all that and I personally have not been vaccinated as I already had covid, but we have to stop downplaying how serious the virus CAN be for others

 

[GreenMachineX]

His argument is against mandates, first and foremost. That is an entirely separate discussion.

It's entirely reasonable to be anti mandates. If you also don't want to get the vax, then fine. The reason I responded to this thread isn't because those 2 views are not reasonable, it's because you were posting them in an attempt (overt or otherwise) to convince other people the vaxxes are dangerous. That evidence isnt just flawed, in some cases the conclusions being drawn are just wild accusations that hinges on the loosest coincidence. That, in my view, is simply not reasonable and deserves to be called out.

As an added extra, his interview about the flu vaccine is worth a listen or read:

Dr. Matthew Memoli — A Better Shot Against the Flu | NIH Intramural Research Program

irp.nih.gov

Are you denying there are serious side effects to the vaccine?

 

[HIT4ME]

His argument is against mandates, first and foremost. That is an entirely separate discussion.

It's entirely reasonable to be anti mandates. If you also don't want to get the vax, then fine. The reason I responded to this thread isn't because those 2 views are not reasonable, it's because you were posting them in an attempt (overt or otherwise) to convince other people the vaxxes are dangerous. That evidence isnt just flawed, in some cases the conclusions being drawn are just wild accusations that hinges on the loosest coincidence. That, in my view, is simply not reasonable and deserves to be called out.

As an added extra, his interview about the flu vaccine is worth a listen or read:

Dr. Matthew Memoli — A Better Shot Against the Flu | NIH Intramural Research Program

irp.nih.gov

I have had to like some of your responses - and that was hard for me haha.

I honestly don't have enough time to spend here right now. You are always challenging, which I appreciate, but I do think there is a strong bias in a lot of your statements.

Having said that, this is a very reasonable post and more in line with my side of things. I think it is foolish and arrogant for one group to be so gung-ho about the vaccines. It's the Dunning-Kreuger effect. We've learned a lot about a virus that we didn't know about 2 years ago - just enough to think we know a lot more than we do.

But I am not "anti-vax" either. I think a lot of the arguments are unfounded.

I have posted evidence of vaccine dangers in this very thread - and I agree that it is easy to blame everything that has happened since the vax came out on the vaccine. Oh, he got the vaccine and died a week later! How? A car crash? There you go, vaccines increase your chances of dying in a car crash. Frankly, this happens A LOT - even in scientific studies. Maybe water is what kills people. Don't believe me? How many people consume water and then die later that very day?

But I think the political backlash has made it difficult to have an honest discussion of the dangers. People with pre-existing conditions, in particular, should be aware of the ability for mRNA to increase cytokine levels. Doctors should be aware of the issues that have come up - whether related or not - to improve their monitoring of patients. Yes, people without diabetes have become diabetic soon after the mRNA shot, people with diabetes have become hyperosmoler hyperglyceamic, there have been auto-immune reactions - all of which are explainable from mRNA vaccines raising cytokine levels.

Is this prevalent? Nah. Does it warrant mass refusal to get a vaccine? No. It warrants precaution.

One possibility is that these issues are just normal in the population, as you are suggesting, and we will find the vax has 0 impact on them.

Another possibility is that we will find there is a small potential for serious consequences in some patients - which requires some caution in administration and monitoring.

But we won't know for certain probably for a few years at least.....and I have a real issue with anyone taking either stance as a hard line.

That's all I got.

 

[rob112]

......In this very thread, your statement has been proven to be false. People die from this virus. I personally know people who have died. HEALTHY people. 35 year old co worker, who did Triathlons and wouldn't touch anything unhealthy even if it was free. Killed him, yet my severely overweight coworker who can barely walk up a flight of stairs without being winded, said it felt like the common cold. Old people get it and are fine, yet it killed a middle school girl in my state last month. We gotta stop with this "ONLY" kills xyz. I disagree with mandates and all that and I personally have not been vaccinated as I already had covid, but we have to stop downplaying how serious the virus CAN be for others

He clearly said “on average.” That’s facts.

Outliers are scary, but there are outliers on tons of things. That doesn’t disprove the average.

I wonder if we will down the road find out a reason for the outlier that we do not yet understand. Hopefully.

 

[poison]

......In this very thread, your statement has been proven to be false. People die from this virus. I personally know people who have died. HEALTHY people. 35 year old co worker, who did Triathlons and wouldn't touch anything unhealthy even if it was free. Killed him, yet my severely overweight coworker who can barely walk up a flight of stairs without being winded, said it felt like the common cold. Old people get it and are fine, yet it killed a middle school girl in my state last month. We gotta stop with this "ONLY" kills xyz. I disagree with mandates and all that and I personally have not been vaccinated as I already had covid, but we have to stop downplaying how serious the virus CAN be for others

OK cool. A coworker of mine got the vax, and within a week ended up in the hospital with chest pain, and more recentkly again has been coughing up blood. They don't know what it is, but they 'know it's not the vax'. Since I am to accept your outlier cases as evidence of the pandemics severity, you will have to accept my outlier case as evidence of the vaccines dangers.

There are always outliers, like albino humans or animals, for example. But that doesn't mean saying 'tigers are orange and black' is stupid or inaccurate. The pandemic has not been downplayed; it's been excessively and incessantly overhyped to the detriment of all else for nearly 2 years now. What you consider me downplaying the pandemic is actually an attempt to bring the rhetoric down to normal levels, and inject some non-panic porn data into the discussion. You CAN say the virus generally kills 'XYZ', because like tigers being orange, there is a general rule. Data:

Worldometer - cases globally: 252,370,436

CDC: 10x as many infections as known
CDC says COVID-19 cases in U.S. may be 10 times higher than reported (nbcnews.com)

252,000,000 x 10 = 2.5BILLION cases

Worldometer deaths - 5,092,420

There is no age breakdown for global death stats by age, but US deaths by age are easy to find. The vast majority are 50-60+ WITH comorbidities.

Yes, CV preferentially kills the old and severely infirm, with the risk to young people being thousands of times lower. For perspective, last time I checked CV was the 8th deadliest thing to youth, with risky things like swimming, riding in a car, fires, firearms, and more, causing exponentially more deaths, but you give those no thought. And this is before we even dig into the falsification and misclassification of CV deaths.

 

[poison]

I would argue even if say the vax stopped Covid there would at least be an argument but it doesn’t. I really do not think there is any leg to stand on for the mandate. If something that low of risk with no cure is worth loss of liberty just extrapolate that out to things like driving, fast food, sedentary lifestyle, unprotected sex, etc etc and we could very quickly move into a totalitarian state.

Many genocidal regimes in history committed their atrocities for “the greater good” and they had ideas of building a Utopia…you know what they did to people they thought were in the way of the utopia. It’s just nuts to me knowing history and knowing there is a totalitarian tendency in man that people even risk any steps in that direction. I believe it is ignorance. “It can’t happen here, that only happens in China, Vietnam, North Korea, Iran, Ethiopia, France(revolution and napoleonic wars), germany, Russia, Japan, US(regards to native Americans and African Americans), Cuba, and so on and so on.” Essentially natural or negative rights has not been the norm in all of human history.

Anxiety ridden risk adverse high time preference individuals have way too much sway in the west.

I agree with everything you say here, I just don't see a need to even go there. The first step in justifying a mandate should be proof of effectiveness, which in this case cannot be proven. If they could show it stopped transmission, then we could move on to weighing the above against the effectiveness of it, and the 'greater good', but because effectiveness cannot be shown, there's simply no need to go further.

 

[thebigt]

i just want to say that my wife and i were infected with and tested positive for covid-19 back at the end of february. since then we have been exposed to several people who later tested positive for the virus, we did our due diligence and have been tested 4 times since our original positive test for the virus, and have got negative results each time....i just wish the government would get off the backs of people like us and accept that NATURAL IMMUNITY after recovering from covid-19 is real.

 

[Dustin07]

......In this very thread, your statement has been proven to be false. People die from this virus. I personally know people who have died. HEALTHY people. 35 year old co worker, who did Triathlons and wouldn't touch anything unhealthy even if it was free. Killed him, yet my severely overweight coworker who can barely walk up a flight of stairs without being winded, said it felt like the common cold. Old people get it and are fine, yet it killed a middle school girl in my state last month. We gotta stop with this "ONLY" kills xyz. I disagree with mandates and all that and I personally have not been vaccinated as I already had covid, but we have to stop downplaying how serious the virus CAN be for others

@poison's quote that you are replying to doesn't actually conflict with your response. he did note that a small number of people do die. we know full well that the death numbers in our nation (who knows how many other nations) are falsified, inflated. in the State of Washington they did openly declare that anyone who died after testing positive were called a covid death. even if they died from a car accident, crime, natural causes, etc. even with these inflated numbers the death rate is 1.6% More than the flu, less than the plague. we found in washington that 13% of covid deaths at one point were not actually from covid. I would bet that number is higher.

As of summer 2021 my honest answer was:
I know more people hurt from the virus than the vaccine, so my observation despite my research and feelings suggests the vaccine is good and virus bad. my observation suggested I should just get a vaccine, there is no reason not to. (I had already had covid though). my gut told me na, I don't need or want this injection.

Now a few months later Nov 2021 I can honestly tell you I know more people with serious injury from the vaccine than from covid, including covid deaths I know of personally. I know people who have developed severe heart issues, blood clots, are now on drugs that may be lifelong due to the vaccine, I know people who have had misscarriages now post vax that had prior healthy pregnancies, I know women with severe menstral issues now that never did before. my gut was right as more and more vaccine related injuries come out. and they are serious.

i just want to say that my wife and i were infected with and tested positive for covid-19 back at the end of february. since then we have been exposed to several people who later tested positive for the virus, we did our due diligence and have been tested 4 times since our original positive test for the virus, and have got negative results each time....i just wish the government would get off the backs of people like us and accept that NATURAL IMMUNITY after recovering from covid-19 is real.

my wife and I experienced covid about the same time, March. have had many direct exposures where everyone else around us suddenly tested positive for the first time, but she and I were fine. I have no interest in retesting unless I'm deathly ill though. to be honest, I feel healthier than I did the entire first year of the pandemic. now that i have had covid, saw it was no big deal, and have developed natural antibodies, the mindfuck of it all is gone for me and I no longer have that lingering fear mongering dwelling in the back of my head, despite CNN's best efforts.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I agree with everything you say here, I just don't see a need to even go there. The first step in justifying a mandate should be proof of effectiveness, which in this case cannot be proven. If they could show it stopped transmission, then we could move on to weighing the above against the effectiveness of it, and the 'greater good', but because effectiveness cannot be shown, there's simply no need to go further.

Stopping transmission is the only reason anyone should be attempting to mandate the vaccine. Since it doesn't, I still believe there's an ulterior motive. I have no idea what that motive is, but it's easy to see the issue here.

 

[HIT4ME]

I agree with everything you say here, I just don't see a need to even go there. The first step in justifying a mandate should be proof of effectiveness, which in this case cannot be proven. If they could show it stopped transmission, then we could move on to weighing the above against the effectiveness of it, and the 'greater good', but because effectiveness cannot be shown, there's simply no need to go further.

I disagree with this. You have been fooled into thinking that if they can prove it is effective, they should have the authority to mandate you do something to your body that isn't necessarily natural. If the vaccine was effective in preventing the virus from taking hold - I would argue that is the death nell to mandating it. Once there is an effective prevention for the virus, the argument that you could unintentionally infect someone who was completely innocent goes out the window. If they can get a vaccine and prevent getting sick, you are less responsible for making them sick inadvertantly when they are not vaccinated.

I will maintain and agree with you that without proof of effectiveness and an abundance of safety data, mandating that someone take a drug is an abuse of power.

In other words - I'm against mandates based on the underlying logic, not based on whether or not a politicized vaccine is effective, miraculous, ineffective, whatever.

And like the states should have certain rights that the federal government cannot trample, individuals should have similar rights over their own existence - and if someone is too young to have their own guardianship, those decisions should be made by the guardian. So if the government is the guardian of a child...sure, they can mandate those children be vaccinated I guess.

If getting vaccinated is such a good idea, and it is available enough - then we are in the realm of natural selection, right?

 

[Dustin07]

last observation and I'll say it again
covid spiked during vaccination. in 2020 it disappeared during the summer. but in 2021 it spiked during the summer in line with vaccination.

Despite that our numbers are shrinking drastically in WA state. this is likely herd immunity, not vaccination.
Additionally, Trump had mobilized tons of pop up and naval hospitals. those are gone now.
if we are in such a crisis why are we not utilizing those pop up hospitals and why are we firing health care workers?

 

[Dustin07]

the CDC even posted that while the vaccinated may lower their viral load faster than the unvaxed they do spike and are more contagious for a short period of time.

so again, vaccination is likely the direct cause of spikes.

Stopping transmission is the only reason anyone should be attempting to mandate the vaccine. Since it doesn't, I still believe there's an ulterior motive. I have no idea what that motive is, but it's easy to see the issue here.

 

[thebigt]

last observation and I'll say it again
covid spiked during vaccination. in 2020 it disappeared during the summer. but in 2021 it spiked during the summer in line with vaccination.

Despite that our numbers are shrinking drastically in WA state. this is likely herd immunity, not vaccination.
Additionally, Trump had mobilized tons of pop up and naval hospitals. those are gone now.
if we are in such a crisis why are we not utilizing those pop up hospitals and why are we firing health care workers?

i remember faucci saying herd immunity would be the end of the virus or something to that effect---what happened to that?

 

[rob112]

Stopping transmission is the only reason anyone should be attempting to mandate the vaccine. Since it doesn't, I still believe there's an ulterior motive. I have no idea what that motive is, but it's easy to see the issue here.

Could be as simply as making billions of dollars for big pharma and politicians are narcissistic and love telling people what to do.

I think that is more likely than any grander conspiracy.

 

[thebigt]

Could be as simply as making billions of dollars for big pharma and politicians are narcissistic and love telling people what to do.

rather this is motive behind it or not...i can't find anything to disagree with here.

 

[Dustin07]

Could be as simply as making billions of dollars for big pharma and politicians are narcissistic and love telling people what to do.

I think that is more likely than any grander conspiracy.

I 100% believe it's entirely about money

 

[poison]

I disagree with this. You have been fooled into thinking

Let me stop you there: I probably wasn't clear, but I'm highly anti-mandate. I'm just saying that if covid had a terrible survival rate, and the vaccines worked really well, you could make a case for a mandate.....but that doesn't mean I'd agree with a mandate. There is 0 case for a mandate based on the utter lack of effectiveness, so there's no need to discuss further.

Hey, I want you to wear a pink tutu to stop covid, in fact I'm gonna make you. Are you going to argue the legality of me making you? Or that wearing a pink tutu is dum as hell and has nothing to do with stopping cv so **** off?

 

[Jiigzz]

Are you denying there are serious side effects to the vaccine?

Of course not.

Are you denying that the incidence rate of serious adverse effects are less than 1 in a million?

 

[Jiigzz]

Mandates and efficacy can be separated, in some cases, but not in this one. For example, if this were ebola, the vaccine was effective at preventing ebola, and not getting the vax meant not only your face melted off, but 70% of those infected bled from their eyeballs and died, well, a mandate would probably not be required to coerce people into getting the vax, but a mandate could make sense.

In this instance, we have a disease that you generally don't know you have unless you take a test, 99.97xx% of people survive it, the people who die with it have 3-4 severe preexisting conditions on average and are elderly, and the vaccine doesn't prevent much of anything at all. So not only are mandates idiotic, but the idiocy of them hinges on the lack of efficacy, and nothing else.

And that's even before getting into the additional idiocy of mandating a vaccine designed for alpha, when the dominant strain now is delta, and possibly moving into a.30 or mu or whatever the next variant will be called, and without having a fucking clue who has natural immunity and who doesn't, whether the vax interfere with immunity (it likely does), and other pressing questions.

EVERYONE MUST VAX OR FACE CONSEQUENCES! WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING, BUT WE ARE DOING SOMETHING*, AND GOD HELP YOU IF YOU GET IN OUR WAY

*in the name of public health and the good of all, of course

Ok, I figured this was the case. In that case there's nothing really else to add because the crux of the issue is the mandates, and that you're forced to get a vaccine that has a risk of side effects you don't want to gamble getting.

 

[HIT4ME]

Let me stop you there: I probably wasn't clear, but I'm highly anti-mandate. I'm just saying that if covid had a terrible survival rate, and the vaccines worked really well, you could make a case for a mandate.....but that doesn't mean I'd agree with a mandate. There is 0 case for a mandate based on the utter lack of effectiveness, so there's no need to discuss further.

Hey, I want you to wear a pink tutu to stop covid, in fact I'm gonna make you. Are you going to argue the legality of me making you? Or that wearing a pink tutu is dum as hell and has nothing to do with stopping cv so **** off?

And I am saying that if the vaccine works well, it WEAKENS the case for a mandate.

The thinking is you should become vaccinated because Covid is so deadly to people that you could be killing the people around you through no fault of their own.

If they can go get vaccinated and be protected from the disease, then my choosing not to get vaccinated has NO impact on them. Thus you have no reason to mandate whether or not I get protected.

The fact that the vaccine is less effective does not, in any way, impair the issue with mandates. The only argument for mandating it is that it is so ineffective that it will only save people if there is 100% adoption.

If you want me to wear a pink tutu, you should have no ability to force me to wear a pink tutu - whether it makes me look better or not. And if wearing a pink tutu protects me from Covid - then I will wear one and whatever you want to do, you do you. If I'm so worried about you infecting me, and wearing a pink tutu is so super effective...I'm just going to wear one and I'm protected.

But ultimately, the people who are so afraid of covid, deep down, KNOW the vaccine is not effective. Not a single person will argue that it protects you against infection. Even in this very thread, the people fighting hard for vaccines believe that it will not be effective until 100% of the people are vaccinated - and getting vaccinated while 30% remain unvaccinated, somehow, magically increases he chance of the unvaccinated dying from Covid.

 

[poison]

And I am saying that if the vaccine works well, it WEAKENS the case for a mandate.

The thinking is you should become vaccinated because Covid is so deadly to people that you could be killing the people around you through no fault of their own.

If they can go get vaccinated and be protected from the disease, then my choosing not to get vaccinated has NO impact on them. Thus you have no reason to mandate whether or not I get protected.

The fact that the vaccine is less effective does not, in any way, impair the issue with mandates. The only argument for mandating it is that it is so ineffective that it will only save people if there is 100% adoption.

If you want me to wear a pink tutu, you should have no ability to force me to wear a pink tutu - whether it makes me look better or not. And if wearing a pink tutu protects me from Covid - then I will wear one and whatever you want to do, you do you. If I'm so worried about you infecting me, and wearing a pink tutu is so super effective...I'm just going to wear one and I'm protected.

But ultimately, the people who are so afraid of covid, deep down, KNOW the vaccine is not effective. Not a single person will argue that it protects you against infection. Even in this very thread, the people fighting hard for vaccines believe that it will not be effective until 100% of the people are vaccinated - and getting vaccinated while 30% remain unvaccinated, somehow, magically increases he chance of the unvaccinated dying from Covid.

I disagree. There is no 100%, prior mandates did not hinge on their weakness, and they were to protect the recipient as well as stop the spread. Having a weaker vax doesn't support mandates; having an effective one does.

 

[Dustin07]

I don't find a pink tutu to be any more or less demeaning than the face diapers they want now, tbh.

 

[Dustin07]

And I am saying that if the vaccine works well, it WEAKENS the case for a mandate.

The thinking is you should become vaccinated because Covid is so deadly to people that you could be killing the people around you through no fault of their own.

If they can go get vaccinated and be protected from the disease, then my choosing not to get vaccinated has NO impact on them. Thus you have no reason to mandate whether or not I get protected.

The fact that the vaccine is less effective does not, in any way, impair the issue with mandates. The only argument for mandating it is that it is so ineffective that it will only save people if there is 100% adoption.

If you want me to wear a pink tutu, you should have no ability to force me to wear a pink tutu - whether it makes me look better or not. And if wearing a pink tutu protects me from Covid - then I will wear one and whatever you want to do, you do you. If I'm so worried about you infecting me, and wearing a pink tutu is so super effective...I'm just going to wear one and I'm protected.

But ultimately, the people who are so afraid of covid, deep down, KNOW the vaccine is not effective. Not a single person will argue that it protects you against infection. Even in this very thread, the people fighting hard for vaccines believe that it will not be effective until 100% of the people are vaccinated - and getting vaccinated while 30% remain unvaccinated, somehow, magically increases he chance of the unvaccinated dying from Covid.

could you imagine if a polio vax or ebola vax left infected people temporarily MORE contagious?



I also think if the risks were 15%+ to become paralyzed, or 90% to bleed from your eyeballs, then the risk of the vax side effects would be worth it for most.

we've weighed the risks of covid and we've weighed the risks of this vaccine and the vaccine simply isn't interesting.

 

[Dustin07]

Here is Bill Gates, everyones favorite Satan led doctor-without-a-degree telling you that these vaccines dont' work. "they only slightly reduce transmission" and going on to suggest police state status such as is incorporated in new zealand and australia are likely the right move. Welcome to 1984.

With 7.4 billion COVID shots deployed in arms, Bill Gates declares that ‘we need a new way of doing the vaccines’

Microsoft founder then endorses Police State to deal with COVID-19.

dossier.substack.com

 

[HIT4ME]

Of course not.

Are you denying that the incidence rate of serious adverse effects are less than 1 in a million?

Does the incidence rate really have the weight you are giving it? If the incidence was 1/50,000 vs. the 1/84,000 deaths in Covid, would that make the vaccine a threat at that point?

A 1/1,500,000 risk still changes the risk/reward calculation - and since the reward isn't 100% immunity to the 1/84,000, you are really just stacking risks.

The risk is a factor in the calculation, but it has to go hand-in-hand with the reward and not be ignored. We all like to think worst case scenarios are unlikely, but that isn't the truth.

I disagree. There is no 100%, prior mandates did not hinge on their weakness, and they were to protect the recipient as well as stop the spread. Having a weaker vax doesn't support mandates; having an effective one does.

You aren't seeing the point.

Nothing supports mandates, but having a stronger vax actually supports a mandate less than having a weaker vax. If you can go get vaccinated and be safe, you have eliminated the harm that I can do to you by not being vaccinated - so a mandate is completely unsupportable. At that point, it is not for the public good. It is for your own good and that's it.

*edit* I feel like I'm getting twisted up here trying to make the point.

Having a 100% ineffective vaccine is, obviously, dumb to mandate and has no support.

Having a 50% effective vaccine is maybe more logical in that it can slow transmission to some degree if a large percentage of the population gets it; but it still is dumb to mandate because you shouldn't be forced to take ANY risk, regardless of how small, to protect my life.

Having a 100% effective vaccine doesn't require any mandate because you can protect yourself if you choose, and my choice has no bearing on your outcome. Your choice decides your outcome. So a mandate is even more stupid, because it's completely unnecessary.

 

[HIT4ME]

could you imagine if a polio vax or ebola vax left infected people temporarily MORE contagious?



I also think if the risks were 15%+ to become paralyzed, or 90% to bleed from your eyeballs, then the risk of the vax side effects would be worth it for most.

we've weighed the risks of covid and we've weighed the risks of this vaccine and the vaccine simply isn't interesting.

lol. Honestly, I don't think it's that cut and dry either. We have a HUGE number of comorbidity in this country and this increases your risk of dying from either the vaccine or from Covid. I think, however, the risk calculation favors getting the vaccine in such people and people over the age of 50 or 60. Honestly, even over 40 may be the point where it makes a lot of sense. The highest increase in death rate is actually for people between 40-60. Sure, the elderly are most likely to succumb to the disease, but as everyone loves to point out, they may have died soon anyway. Their chance of death from all causes is only slightly increased from Covid to be honest (not to sound too cavalier). But the 40-60 crowd...fewer will die overall, but hardly any of them were going to die otherwise - the increased chance of death from all causes has been greatly increased due to covid in this group and a lot of us ignore that as well.

But, if you have diabetes, are obese, etc. - maybe your doctor should be doing some follow up blood work, monitoring blood sugar more closely, etc. after you get the shot just to be cautious. Talk to most people though and this idea is just ludicrous and I sound like an anti-vaxxer.

Here is Bill Gates, everyones favorite Satan led doctor-without-a-degree telling you that these vaccines dont' work. "they only slightly reduce transmission" and going on to suggest police state status such as is incorporated in new zealand and australia are likely the right move. Welcome to 1984.

With 7.4 billion COVID shots deployed in arms, Bill Gates declares that ‘we need a new way of doing the vaccines’

Microsoft founder then endorses Police State to deal with COVID-19.

dossier.substack.com

I think this goes hand-in-hand with the actual data. Washing your hands, wearing a mask, avoiding crowds, etc. is more effective than the vaccine. At the very least we are treating the vaccine with far too much optimism and people are going back to normal, expecting immunity, because of all the unfounded hype and denial of any need for skepticism.

 

[Nac]

Here is Bill Gates, everyones favorite Satan led doctor-without-a-degree telling you that these vaccines dont' work. "they only slightly reduce transmission" and going on to suggest police state status such as is incorporated in new zealand and australia are likely the right move. Welcome to 1984.

With 7.4 billion COVID shots deployed in arms, Bill Gates declares that ‘we need a new way of doing the vaccines’

Microsoft founder then endorses Police State to deal with COVID-19.

dossier.substack.com

I live in New Zealand and the hyperbole and inaccuracies claimed in that article are lol worthy.

 

[mechka_grizli]

He clearly said “on average.” That’s facts.

Outliers are scary, but there are outliers on tons of things. That doesn’t disprove the average.

I wonder if we will down the road find out a reason for the outlier that we do not yet understand. Hopefully.

no he clearly said the ones who die have 3-4 commorbidites on average.

 

[mechka_grizli]

I have had to like some of your responses - and that was hard for me haha.

I honestly don't have enough time to spend here right now. You are always challenging, which I appreciate, but I do think there is a strong bias in a lot of your statements.

Having said that, this is a very reasonable post and more in line with my side of things. I think it is foolish and arrogant for one group to be so gung-ho about the vaccines. It's the Dunning-Kreuger effect. We've learned a lot about a virus that we didn't know about 2 years ago - just enough to think we know a lot more than we do.

But I am not "anti-vax" either. I think a lot of the arguments are unfounded.

I have posted evidence of vaccine dangers in this very thread - and I agree that it is easy to blame everything that has happened since the vax came out on the vaccine. Oh, he got the vaccine and died a week later! How? A car crash? There you go, vaccines increase your chances of dying in a car crash. Frankly, this happens A LOT - even in scientific studies. Maybe water is what kills people. Don't believe me? How many people consume water and then die later that very day?

But I think the political backlash has made it difficult to have an honest discussion of the dangers. People with pre-existing conditions, in particular, should be aware of the ability for mRNA to increase cytokine levels. Doctors should be aware of the issues that have come up - whether related or not - to improve their monitoring of patients. Yes, people without diabetes have become diabetic soon after the mRNA shot, people with diabetes have become hyperosmoler hyperglyceamic, there have been auto-immune reactions - all of which are explainable from mRNA vaccines raising cytokine levels.

Is this prevalent? Nah. Does it warrant mass refusal to get a vaccine? No. It warrants precaution.

One possibility is that these issues are just normal in the population, as you are suggesting, and we will find the vax has 0 impact on them.

Another possibility is that we will find there is a small potential for serious consequences in some patients - which requires some caution in administration and monitoring.

But we won't know for certain probably for a few years at least.....and I have a real issue with anyone taking either stance as a hard line.

That's all I got.

The best post in this entire thread