Clomid during cycle

Chados said:
No I haven't used it on cycle really.. I've used it a few weeks before due to gyno but my point really with torem and nolva is that yes torem has less sides but i believe 40mg nolva is way over 100mg of torem to restart hpta which means that this 60mg dosage would work but youd have to increase the dosage a ton which means more sides and less effect in theory.. Since I've never seen anyone taken both at that dosage during a cycle I don't know the sides of torem. With clomid you'd have even less effect if my memory isn't wrong and sides that doesn't come with either torem or Nolva. There was this theory that nolva decreased igf1 which either was very little or it was completely debunked and therefore torem should suffice as a better option.


Nolva actually increases igf1 but I think that's after 18 months.
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What sides are you talking about with Clomid?
 
Hyde said:
Some guys get vision impairment, floaters, blindness in extreme very rare cases. But mainly, being very emotional as dosage increases.
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I’m surprised, I don’t get any of that, Clomid might be 1 of my favorite things to take.
 
Hyde said:
Some guys get vision impairment, floaters, blindness in extreme very rare cases. But mainly, being very emotional as dosage increases.
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Floaters are a real issue for me with clomid. I was taking it for the last time in my current pct. Also the depression sides are a real thing for me with clomid. I hope that I'll be able to get some torem for my next go, for this test. If anybody has some good EU sources, please PM me! If not I'll just use nolva. I saw that dragon ph*rma started releasing torem, did anybody try it maybe?
 
BBiceps said:
I wasted the first few weeks of Var with 40-60mg and it wasn’t until I started to dose it at 75-100 I saw results, which was from week 5. Clomid was 25mg the whole time.
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Wow that's a hefty dose of var for only 25mg clomid. U should have probably used at least 50mg if not more imo.
Also it might be underdosed as at 100mg I would be cramping like crazy. 50mg is okay for me, above that I start getting into problems that affect my training to much (pumps and cramps).
 
BBiceps said:
What sides are you talking about with Clomid?
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Sides are much more common with clomid than nolva and torem. I had floaters one time at 50mg but I've used 100mg and didn't have anything.. I think clomid just made my eyes sleepy like when you've slept too long and your eyes feels heavy bht you're not tired.
 
I'm the guy that gets all the common sides from pretty much all the "fun" compounds. But Clomid I can run @ 100mg and the only thing I get is small pimples on my chest for a week or two. Crazy how everyone's body chemistry varies so much.
 
contact13 said:
I'm the guy that gets all the common sides from pretty much all the "fun" compounds. But Clomid I can run @ 100mg and the only thing I get is small pimples on my chest for a week or two. Crazy how everyone's body chemistry varies so much.
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Small pimples, exactly the same, on chest! Seeing as clomid acts like stronger estrogen, this is proof that e2 can cause pimples.
 
boooosted said:
What do you mean by clomid acting like stronger estrogen?
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Well it acts strongly on estrogen receptors alpha (ERa) as an agonist. In that manner it functions as a sinthetic estrogen. It binds to ERa with a greater affinity then normal estradiol and it's agonistic activity is also stronger then that of e2. And as you can clearly see from the very very common sides (moodines, depression, sadnes,...) there is a lot of thruth to this statement. Clomid is an old drug and I will never use it again as depression and sadness is just crazy when I'm on it. Not to mention pimples.

It works as an antagonist mostly on ER beta.

Torem and nolva don't have this extreme sides and are thus much better for pct and or hpta upregulation for on cycle support.

So in my book, there is litrle to no reason to use clomid. Torem should be the go to serm of choice for everybody and if not that, then nolva.

Also for gyno, only ralox should be used. It's by far the best for that as it's a lot more selective then all other serms.
 
Jinsun said:
Well it acts strongly on estrogen receptors alpha (ERa) as an agonist. In that manner it functions as a sinthetic estrogen. It binds to ERa with a greater affinity then normal estradiol and it's agonistic activity is also stronger then that of e2. And as you can clearly see from the very very common sides (moodines, depression, sadnes,...) there is a lot of thruth to this statement. Clomid is an old drug and I will never use it again as depression and sadness is just crazy when I'm on it. Not to mention pimples.

It works as an antagonist mostly on ER beta.

Torem and nolva don't have this extreme sides and are thus much better for pct and or hpta upregulation for on cycle support.

So in my book, there is litrle to no reason to use clomid. Torem should be the go to serm of choice for everybody and if not that, then nolva.

Also for gyno, only ralox should be used. It's by far the best for that as it's a lot more selective then all other serms.
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Ok, makes sense. I don't get any sides from clomid but have only ran it up to 40mg. I hear a lot about the depression though.

Let me ask you this. What about clomid and ralox together. Would they both cause issues or are they synergistic? In other words during a pct, would clomid have any effect on the ralox working?
 
Jinsun said:
Wow that's a hefty dose of var for only 25mg clomid. U should have probably used at least 50mg if not more imo.
Also it might be underdosed as at 100mg I would be cramping like crazy. 50mg is okay for me, above that I start getting into problems that affect my training to much (pumps and cramps).
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We see what the blood work say but I respond well to Clomid, restarted myself from being totally shut down with “too low to measure” sperm count to making babies after 2 month of 25mg Clomid ed, so I expect 25mg to be enough.
 
boooosted said:
Ok, makes sense. I don't get any sides from clomid but have only ran it up to 40mg. I hear a lot about the depression though.

Let me ask you this. What about clomid and ralox together. Would they both cause issues or are they synergistic? In other words during a pct, would clomid have any effect on the ralox working?
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No idea, I'm not a pharmachologist and I doubt you could find any studies that would correlate to this... But I doubt that they would have any interactions that you would be able to perceive. No problem in combining them that I know off. Ralox does nothing for hpta though, so only reason to use it in pct would be for estrogen rebound and or gyno.
 
Some say clomid acts as a super estrogen in certain tissues.... because of the emotional angle.

Personally I don’t buy it. I think clomid just tends to cause depression in some. Period.

Which is why I recommend torem. I have not heard a single bad report on torem. And it fights gyno like nolva.

Should be a staple in EVERY SINGLE CYCLE. In my educated opinion.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Some say clomid acts as a super estrogen in certain tissues.... because of the emotional angle.

Personally I don’t buy it. I think clomid just tends to cause depression in some. Period.

Which is why I recommend torem. I have not heard a single bad report on torem. And it fights gyno like nolva.

Should be a staple in EVERY SINGLE CYCLE. In my educated opinion.
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Clomid acts strongly on ER alpha. Thus eliciting estrogen like activity. This is not something I made up mate, it's supported by research. And besides, you can see the sides on skin and brain to help you prove it.
 
K so I’ve been on clomid for boosting test but want to give torem a try as I’ve had a touch of the depression sides and anxiety. I’ve doses clomid differently but seem to settle around 12.5mg a day. My question is, what would a good starting dose for maintenance on torem be?

I’m not on cycle currently
 
RickyBlobby said:
Some say clomid acts as a super estrogen in certain tissues.... because of the emotional angle.

Personally I don’t buy it. I think clomid just tends to cause depression in some. Period.

Which is why I recommend torem. I have not heard a single bad report on torem. And it fights gyno like nolva.

Should be a staple in EVERY SINGLE CYCLE. In my educated opinion.
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Problem with this argument is that when we talk about hpta torem needs to be dosed much higher than the average dose and so far I haven't seen anyone do that which doesn't convince me about sides.

There are studies done with both these and most people only experienced hot flashes.

The other thing worth mentioning is the low amount of people running torem. We have very few reported sides yes but when we talk about nolva that's been around since the 60s it's hard to make a fair comparison.

One would have to go up in the 100s with torem to have the effect of 20-40mg nolva for hpta and that's when we could make at least a more fair comparison.
 
I think 30-60mg torem should be good enough for most cycles. I don’t see the need to go into the 100’s. That’s just speculation though.
 
I think 30-60mg torem should be good enough for most cycles. I don’t see the need to go into the 100’s. That’s just speculation though.
 
RickyBlobby said:
I think 30-60mg torem should be good enough for most cycles. I don’t see the need to go into the 100’s. That’s just speculation though.
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It's hard to say what the best dosage is on cycle. When we talk about pct it's another thing. I just think since running it during cycle we'd have to find the best option for optimal results and it's very hard to do this since I doubt there are studies on it.
 
For pct 120 to 100mg of torem is usually taken in the first two weeks... I personally don't advocate really high doses of serm's, as even a lower dose will get you there with less side's, albeit maybe a little slower in the first two weeks.
 
I thought 60mg of torem was roughly equal to 50mg of clomid...?
 
RickyBlobby said:
I thought 60mg of torem was roughly equal to 50mg of clomid...?
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I'm not sure where they're getting these numbers from. From what i remember, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 60mg Torem produced similar results. I'd take Nolva over Clomid despite the cancer scare. Nolva doesnt de-sensitize pituitary to GnRH and also helps manage cholesterol. Torem has all the qualities of Nolva basically with better Cholesterol managing qualities. I haven't tried Torem but will within the next couple of days.
 
Hiddengains said:
I'm not sure where they're getting these numbers from. From what i remember, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 60mg Torem produced similar results. I'd take Nolva over Clomid despite the cancer scare. Nolva doesnt de-sensitize pituitary to GnRH and also helps manage cholesterol. Torem has all the qualities of Nolva basically with better Cholesterol managing qualities. I haven't tried Torem but will within the next couple of days.
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This
 
Double post
 
Hiddengains said:
I'm not sure where they're getting these numbers from. From what i remember, 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva, 60mg Torem produced similar results. I'd take Nolva over Clomid despite the cancer scare. Nolva doesnt de-sensitize pituitary to GnRH and also helps manage cholesterol. Torem has all the qualities of Nolva basically with better Cholesterol managing qualities. I haven't tried Torem but will within the next couple of days.
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So if 20 equals 60 then 40mg nolva equals 120 which was kinda the point I was making. The studies showed a huge difference with hpta when you looked at nolva and torem so even if torem is more friendly which again we don't know cause people don't take that amount of torem we still have to deal with the fact that less is more with nolva and less nolva outshines torem when it comes to hpta. First when we have studies on higher dose of torem to get the most out of it for the hpta we can discuss if its better because going by this argument we can take 20mg nolva or even 10.
 
Transhuman said:
No it didn't.
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I like when you're trying to talk about something out of interest and someone says no and nothing more. . Am I supposed to start an argument with you now?. Are you trying to get a point across or convince me by doing that?

I don't really have time I'm going to wrestling but here's something to snack on

The Toremifene dosage required for this purpose, however, is much larger than the Toremifene dosage required for the mitigation or blocking of gynecomastia. Studies have demonstrated that Toremifene, when administered at doses of 60mg daily, raised Testosterone levels in test subjects by 42%[2]. This is a significant increase, but is much lower when compared to a standard 20mg daily dose of Nolvadex in the same study, which increased Testosterone levels by 71%.
 
Chados said:
I like when you're trying to talk about something out of interest and someone says no and nothing more. . Am I supposed to start an argument with you now?. Are you trying to get a point across or convince me by doing that?
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The onus is on you, not me. Post those studies. Keyword being studies, not study.
 
Chados said:
I like when you're trying to talk about something out of interest and someone says no and nothing more. . Am I supposed to start an argument with you now?. Are you trying to get a point across or convince me by doing that?

I don't really have time I'm going to wrestling but here's something to snack on

The Toremifene dosage required for this purpose, however, is much larger than the Toremifene dosage required for the mitigation or blocking of gynecomastia. Studies have demonstrated that Toremifene, when administered at doses of 60mg daily, raised Testosterone levels in test subjects by 42%[2]. This is a significant increase, but is much lower when compared to a standard 20mg daily dose of Nolvadex in the same study, which increased Testosterone levels by 71%.
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Just my 2. Cents. I don’t even remember clomid raising testosterone 71% at 50mg. If that is true that is very surprising.
 
Chados said:
I like when you're trying to talk about something out of interest and someone says no and nothing more. . Am I supposed to start an argument with you now?. Are you trying to get a point across or convince me by doing that?

I don't really have time I'm going to wrestling but here's something to snack on

The Toremifene dosage required for this purpose, however, is much larger than the Toremifene dosage required for the mitigation or blocking of gynecomastia. Studies have demonstrated that Toremifene, when administered at doses of 60mg daily, raised Testosterone levels in test subjects by 42%[2]. This is a significant increase, but is much lower when compared to a standard 20mg daily dose of Nolvadex in the same study, which increased Testosterone levels by 71%.
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Just my 2. Cents. I don’t even remember clomid raising testosterone 71% at 50mg. If that is true that is very surprising.
 
Chados said:
So if 20 equals 60 then 40mg nolva equals 120 which was kinda the point I was making. The studies showed a huge difference with hpta when you looked at nolva and torem so even if torem is more friendly which again we don't know cause people don't take that amount of torem we still have to deal with the fact that less is more with nolva and less nolva outshines torem when it comes to hpta. First when we have studies on higher dose of torem to get the most out of it for the hpta we can discuss if its better because going by this argument we can take 20mg nolva or even 10.
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Are you making this up as you go? Who uses 40mg of nolva? You don't need to overstimulate you're HPTA to recover. 50mg of Clomid, 20mg of Nolva, or 60mg of Torem is all you need. The only Serm you ever need to dose in the 100mg+ is Raloxifene and even then it doesn't compare to the three.
 
Hiddengains said:
Are you making this up as you go? Who uses 40mg of nolva? You don't need to overstimulate you're HPTA to recover. 50mg of Clomid, 20mg of Nolva, or 60mg of Torem is all you need. The only Serm you ever need to dose in the 100mg+ is Raloxifene and even then it doesn't compare to the three.
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No I'm not making anything up in questioning what the actual perfect dosage is just like you
 
RickyBlobby said:
Just my 2. Cents. I don’t even remember clomid raising testosterone 71% at 50mg. If that is true that is very surprising.
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I've read about this before this was a fast Google.. I'm really in a hurry now maybe back later tonight... If anyone have time it would be nice to see some more studies its quite hard to find
 
RickyBlobby said:
Just my 2. Cents. I don’t even remember clomid raising testosterone 71% at 50mg. If that is true that is very surprising.
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I've read about this before this was a fast Google.. I'm really in a hurry now maybe back later tonight... If anyone have time it would be nice to see some more studies its quite hard to find
 
Transhuman said:
The onus is on you, not me. Post those studies. Keyword being studies, not study.
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But you are the one saying it's not true. I like to think that when someone is questioning you they should be able to back it up so where's your proof? It's not my job to prove you wrong.

I just don't get how one is leaving a statement like yours and expect me to have the energy to even argue. If you give me something to argue about, maybe I've missed something I'm willing to listen but not to (it's not True)
 
BBiceps said:
I have blood test showing Clomid raise test 100% on 25mg. That’s Clomid only though, not on cycle and not PCT.
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I probably should have worded my statement better. What I was getting at was from what I remember effective dose vs effective dose clomid is stronger than nolva at HTPA function. And I think it was spurfy who said torem was only 15% behind clomid. Which made the numbers that chados posted seem a little off.
 
Chados said:
But you are the one saying it's not true. I like to think that when someone is questioning you they should be able to back it up so where's your proof? It's not my job to prove you wrong.

I just don't get how one is leaving a statement like yours and expect me to have the energy to even argue. If you give me something to argue about, maybe I've missed something I'm willing to listen but not to (it's not True)
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No you are the one making claims. You are the one who need to back this up, not anyone else.
 
Chados said:
But you are the one saying it's not true. I like to think that when someone is questioning you they should be able to back it up so where's your proof? It's not my job to prove you wrong.

I just don't get how one is leaving a statement like yours and expect me to have the energy to even argue. If you give me something to argue about, maybe I've missed something I'm willing to listen but not to (it's not True)
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Nice cop-out to avoid backing up your claims.
 
Transhuman said:
Nice cop-out to avoid backing up your claims.
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No i just don't have time to follow some protocol spurfy made and I'm baffled to say the least that so many of you guys blindly trust one man against science just like the whole anavar theory.. Mind blowing
 
rtmilburn said:
No you are the one making claims. You are the one who need to back this up, not anyone else.
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Oh really.. Number one sir I have tried things you haven't like when you said anavar was better than winstrol and you actually never tried winstrol. Number two, all I do I read by myself not following spurfy your partner it seems by the way you're posting defending everything he says. Number three if you know something I don't you're free to explain to me where I'm wrong and I'll gladly accept it if that's the fact. You earlier in this thread said I'm wrong and after you said that I explained to you my thoughts on it while you answered (I remember why I left this thread)

That's a way of saying I don't know.. And you don't know and I don't know. I believe that I'm right in what I'm saying based on what I've read and everything I've said is out there on Google so whenever you have something to actually argue against feel free to type here or pm me.

There are extremely little information regarding torem vs nolva and especially during cycle but what is an absolute fact is that if you go on Google you will find 99% of all threads and studies saying nolva is more effective and have more benefits.


Or.. You can listen to spurfy
 
Chados said:
Oh really.. Number one sir I have tried things you haven't like when you said anavar was better than winstrol and you actually never tried winstrol. Number two, all I do I read by myself not following spurfy your partner it seems by the way you're posting defending everything he says. Number three if you know something I don't you're free to explain to me where I'm wrong and I'll gladly accept it if that's the fact. You earlier in this thread said I'm wrong and after you said that I explained to you my thoughts on it while you answered (I remember why I left this thread)

That's a way of saying I don't know.. And you don't know and I don't know. I believe that I'm right in what I'm saying based on what I've read and everything I've said is out there on Google so whenever you have something to actually argue against feel free to type here or pm me.

There are extremely little information regarding torem vs nolva and especially during cycle but what is an absolute fact is that if you go on Google you will find 99% of all threads and studies saying nolva is more effective and have more benefits.


Or.. You can listen to spurfy
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No if you going to throw numbers out like facts, it is on you to back that up. That is simple. I'm not saying you are wrong, necessarily, but I'm saying it's not on us to disprove your claims—like your some all knowing guru— no that is on you to prove us, with links to REAL studies and not some steriods.com sh!t, that you are right.
 
Spurfy isn't even relevant to this conversation. Now I'm convinced this whole argument is because of a grudge against him. It's not like he didn't post studies to back up some of what he was saying.
 
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