Clomid during cycle

[Jinsun]

Nah he said post cycle not at the end of the cycle. That is a big difference, as post cycle usually refers to when you are trully done with the cycle, ie. some time after pct in order to check if you recovered correctly.

Ok, nomenclature aside, I also agree that at the end of the cycle is better than mid cycle, if only one set of bloods will be taken.

Keep us informed mate

 

[wrastler163]

I so wish some of these guys would do labs!

I'm down to do bloods next cycle if AM is sponsoring haha

 

[Jinsun]

I'm down to do bloods next cycle if AM is sponsoring haha

Tbh I was thinking about proposing something in this regards. If we really want to experiment, create new protocols, we could sponsor labs for planed cycles.

 

[Chados]

I'd argue that running Nolvadex is far better than clomid both during cycle and pct. For most people it's probably cheaper too considering you'll need a lot more clomid to get the effects of Nolvadex.

It can help with cholesterol during cycle, it's stronger, it goes hand in hand with aromasin, it's the best serm for gyno, it doesn't come with as much sides as clomid mainly cause you have to dose clomid much higher.

 

[Hyde]

I'd argue that running Nolvadex is far better than clomid both during cycle and pct. For most people it's probably cheaper too considering you'll need a lot more clomid to get the effects of Nolvadex.

It can help with cholesterol during cycle, it's stronger, it goes hand in hand with aromasin, it's the best serm for gyno, it doesn't come with as much sides as clomid mainly cause you have to dose clomid much higher.

Then I’d argue if you wanted to use Nolva, you should really just use Toremifene.

 

[Chados]

Then I’d argue if you wanted to use Nolva, you should really just use Toremifene.

For what reason? Nolva is more effective to bring back production

 

[nasrenegade]

I'd argue that running Nolvadex is far better than clomid both during cycle and pct. For most people it's probably cheaper too considering you'll need a lot more clomid to get the effects of Nolvadex.

It can help with cholesterol during cycle, it's stronger, it goes hand in hand with aromasin, it's the best serm for gyno, it doesn't come with as much sides as clomid mainly cause you have to dose clomid much higher.

I could see during cycle but AFAIK clomid is better at restoring HPTA, which is the entire point of PCT, no?

Also, you cant really compare dosages on a mg/mg basis. Each drug has its own dosage. Just because one requires less to be effective that doesnt inherently mean it will have less sides. Tren is a perfect example of this.

 

[Chados]

I could see during cycle but AFAIK clomid is better at restoring HPTA, which is the entire point of PCT, no?

Also, you cant really compare dosages on a mg/mg basis. Each drug has its own dosage. Just because one requires less to be effective that doesnt inherently mean it will have less sides. Tren is a perfect example of this.

No clomid is not better, it's a myth coming from nolva being only for estrogen and breast tissue. If we're talking saving money yes dosage matters. Nolva also have other benefits

 

[Transhuman]

For what reason? Nolva is more effective to bring back production

Only slightly and torem isn't as toxic. Spurfy did well explaining why nolva should be avoided.

 

[Hyde]

For what reason? Nolva is more effective to bring back production

There was a chart posted somewhere in here from a human study comparing Clomid Nolva and Torem. For HPTA recovery Clomid was king, then Nolva and Torem last - but these 2 had a negligible difference (dosing appropriately per compound, not mg for mg). They will all work.

In America, research Clomid costs same or less than Nolva, and Torem is usually priced not far above - certainly very affordable, cheaper than orals. Again, not mg for mg - I’m talking 30 effective doses of research Clomid is the same or usually cheaper than Nolva. And Torem maybe costs 25% more, at most.

So why Torem? Prostate protection. And Nolva is the most toxic - it’s the one of the 3 I would not want to stay on for extended periods. Clomid is routinely employed for HRT after all.

 

[Chados]

There was a chart posted somewhere in here from a human study comparing Clomid Nolva and Torem. For HPTA recovery Clomid was king, then Nolva and Torem last - but these 2 had a negligible difference (dosing appropriately per compound, not mg for mg). They will all work.

In America, research Clomid costs same or less than Nolva, and Torem is usually priced not far above - certainly very affordable, cheaper than orals. Again, not mg for mg - I’m talking 30 effective doses of research Clomid is the same or usually cheaper than Nolva. And Torem maybe costs 25% more, at most.

So why Torem? Prostate protection. And Nolva is the most toxic - it’s the one of the 3 I would not want to stay on for extended periods. Clomid is routinely employed for HRT after all.

This is not true though. Thing is that most studies with torem breast cancer and yes it is slightly safer but clomid isn't. Nolva is more effective to restart hpta.

 

[Chados]

Only slightly and torem isn't as toxic. Spurfy did well explaining why nolva should be avoided.

Well yes slightly safer but not more effective. Spurfy is a con artist trying to sell you ideas

 

[Karlrobert]

Well yes slightly safer but not more effective. Spurfy is a con artist trying to sell you ideas

My understanding is that torem also helps with cholesterol levels as well. In for knowledge

 

[Chados]

My understanding is that torem also helps with cholesterol levels as well. In for knowledge

It does.. Torem I'd say is the closest you'd get to nolva and it's arguably a little safer even but as far as restarting hpta it falls short so you'd have to consider what's more important. I don't think it's a bad idea to stack two serms to avoid sides but to also get the most out of it.

 

[Hiddengains]

It would be great to see mid cycle bloods. This would give us an definite answer on how suppressed you are and how much the serm is helping. Post cycle bloods are not in any way usefull regarding this topic's main interest

How do you figure? If he's taking a known suppressive anabolic and his test is still within range post cycle before PCT clearly the SERM did it's job.

 

[Hiddengains]

If anyone would like to contribute i have a PayPal. Next month i plan on taking either DMZ, Msten, or Superdrol with Torem on cycle. I have all on hand, any recommendation on the anabolic i should choose. I also have Ralox, torem, clomid (gives me eye floaters), and nolva. I also have exemestane on hand.

 

[Karlrobert]

What dose torem are you considering for on cycle? I've heard 30mg/d suggested before.

 

[BBiceps]

If anyone would like to contribute i have a PayPal. Next month i plan on taking either DMZ, Msten, or Superdrol with Torem on cycle. I have all on hand, any recommendation on the anabolic i should choose. I also have Ralox, torem, clomid (gives me eye floaters), and nolva. I also have exemestane on hand.

Lol

 

[Jinsun]

I don't think it's a bad idea to stack two serms to avoid sides but to also get the most out of it.

Well... I for one can't tolerate clomid at 50mg or above. Depression, emotional sides. So I take just 25mg of it, together with a normal dose of nolva. But tbh I don't know if stacking serms is or is not a good idea. How would you stack them for instance 25/10 or 50/20?

 

[rtmilburn]

It does.. Torem I'd say is the closest you'd get to nolva and it's arguably a little safer even but as far as restarting hpta it falls short so you'd have to consider what's more important. I don't think it's a bad idea to stack two serms to avoid sides but to also get the most out of it.

Show proof of this. Everyone else disagrees, some data disagrees. I would like to see some data to prove us wrong.

 

[Chados]

Show proof of this. Everyone else disagrees, some data disagrees. I would like to see some data to prove us wrong.

No everybody dont disagree. Some people chose to believe a guy with an obvious agenda on this site and it kinda blows my mind how many followed his advice. I'm not sure what it is you want me to prove? That torem is safer or that nolva is more effective? Where exactly is the proof besides hearing from spurfy that any of this is true?

It's is safer so it seems but I have yet to find a study where its better to restart hpta so why don't you show me that study cause I bet thats the only thing we disagree on?

 

[Chados]

Well... I for one can't tolerate clomid at 50mg or above. Depression, emotional sides. So I take just 25mg of it, together with a normal dose of nolva. But tbh I don't know if stacking serms is or is not a good idea. How would you stack them for instance 25/10 or 50/20?

Yeah clomid gave me some sides one time at 50 and never after that. I think stacking is more for sides and you could probably half that dose even though that's quite a low dose of clomid.

I think clomid 25 nolva 40. If you can take it clomid 50 nolva 40.. Clomid is one I think you can go up to 100 on on a strong cycle but again sides with clomid are much more common than with torem or Nolva

 

[Hiddengains]

Lol

What's funny? Regarding dosage, i wouldn't recommend 40mg of nolva. 20mg is comparable to ~50mg of Clomid.

 

[Hiddengains]

No everybody dont disagree. Some people chose to believe a guy with an obvious agenda on this site and it kinda blows my mind how many followed his advice. I'm not sure what it is you want me to prove? That torem is safer or that nolva is more effective? Where exactly is the proof besides hearing from spurfy that any of this is true?

It's is safer so it seems but I have yet to find a study where its better to restart hpta so why don't you show me that study cause I bet thats the only thing we disagree on?

I don't personally know Spurfy from a can of paint, but why would he lie? He doesn't promote or sell anything that i know of. I've only seen a few post where he has stated Torem on cycle maintained his HPTA.

 

[Chados]

I don't personally know Spurfy from a can of paint, but why would he lie? He doesn't promote or sell anything that i know of. I've only seen a few post where he has stated Torem on cycle maintained his HPTA.

Well you normally have 2 reasons, 1. Some guy wants to be an expert or a professional bodybuilder so they pretend to be. This actually happened just a few days ago with another guy. Second reason is that they try to sell you something and that's what I've heard spurfy was doing.

Torem is much better than clomid but for me much harder to get. It's the absolute closest you'll get to Nolvadex and while torem is safer slightly and arguably if my memory doesnt disappoint me better for gyno (not that you need anything better than nolva for this) it's much weaker in terms of hpta

 

[nasrenegade]

No clomid is not better, it's a myth coming from nolva being only for estrogen and breast tissue. If we're talking saving money yes dosage matters. Nolva also have other benefits

Do you have any proof that nolva is better than clomid at restarting the HPTA?

Your money argument makes no sense. By that logic, anything with an effective dose that's say, 50mg, should cost the exact same. Size and weight is a contributing factor, but not the only. That said Clomid is also cheaper for me than Nolva.

Also, I don't know how you claim someone has an "obvious agenda" and then you write that you know some dudes that heard some **** from some dudes that said some ****. If it's so obvious, surely you can provide proof to said obvious agenda. If it's some **** you heard, we'll then brotha I got diamond encrusted bridge to sell ya

 

[Chados]

Do you have any proof that nolva is better than clomid at restarting the HPTA?

Your money argument makes no sense. By that logic, anything with an effective dose that's say, 50mg, should cost the exact same. Size and weight is a contributing factor, but not the only. That said Clomid is also cheaper for me than Nolva.

Also, I don't know how you claim someone has an "obvious agenda" and then you write that you know some dudes that heard some **** from some dudes that said some ****. If it's so obvious, surely you can provide proof to said obvious agenda. If it's some **** you heard, we'll then brotha I got diamond encrusted bridge to sell ya

Cgkone (hope u spelled that right) I think he said something about selling a protocol. Regardless of intent I cannot take a guy seriously when he claims, 1. Anavar is stronger than trenbolone and 2. His protocol is more efficient than anything else on the market and yet he refuse to tell us why. Either the guy an absolute genius this knows more than anyone else in the community including professional bodybuilders and coaches, even doctors. Or, he's completely lost or just a scam. You decide what to believe..

It's kinda easy to Google clomid vs nolva and see the difference, there are tons of info. Nolva was mainly used back in the days as an anti estrogen while clomid was used to increase fertility, why? Because nolva was and still is at the top to fight estrogen. This made people think they were two completely different compounds used for different things. Nolva is much stronger per mg and why does this matter? Not only does it come with far less side effects but you'd have to dose clomid extremely high to even come close to 20 or 40mg mg of nolva which would increase the sides even more. Now I'm not arguing torem isn't a good substitute but when we're talking dosage you'd still have to increase torem a ton to get the same positive effect on hpta but you'd probably be a bit safer running that than nolva if you go mg/mg. Thing is you can't dose it that low and get the same effect.

 

[THOR 70]

Well you normally have 2 reasons, 1. Some guy wants to be an expert or a professional bodybuilder so they pretend to be. This actually happened just a few days ago with another guy. Second reason is that they try to sell you something and that's what I've heard spurfy was doing.

Torem is much better than clomid but for me much harder to get. It's the absolute closest you'll get to Nolvadex and while torem is safer slightly and arguably if my memory doesnt disappoint me better for gyno (not that you need anything better than nolva for this) it's much weaker in terms of hpta

Spurfys info was fascinating. If he was lying, he was a genius just for the quality of his lies. His information on fasting was amazing and I screenshot it. His presentation sucked and he was arrogant.

 

[Chados]

Spurfys info was fascinating. If he was lying, he was a genius just for the quality of his lies. His information on fasting was amazing and I screenshot it. His presentation sucked and he was arrogant.

Yes a good speaker absolutely. If I never used steroids I'd probably believe everything he said. I'm Definitely not saying everything he says is bull**** or a lie but regarding his cycle protocol it's kinda out there already, he just polished it with something only he knows in the whole world which I find a bit strange but hey someone's gonna be the first to figure stuff out.

 

[Cscott622]

Why do i feel like everyone is referring to spurfy in past tense anyway? Am i missing something?

 

[Cgkone]

Cgkone (hope u spelled that right) I think he said something about selling a protocol. Regardless of intent I cannot take a guy seriously when he claims, 1. Anavar is stronger than trenbolone and 2. His protocol is more efficient than anything else on the market and yet he refuse to tell us why. Either the guy an absolute genius this knows more than anyone else in the community including professional bodybuilders and coaches, even doctors. Or, he's completely lost or just a scam. You decide what to believe..

It's kinda easy to Google clomid vs nolva and see the difference, there are tons of info. Nolva was mainly used back in the days as an anti estrogen while clomid was used to increase fertility, why? Because nolva was and still is at the top to fight estrogen. This made people think they were two completely different compounds used for different things. Nolva is much stronger per mg and why does this matter? Not only does it come with far less side effects but you'd have to dose clomid extremely high to even come close to 20 or 40mg mg of nolva which would increase the sides even more. Now I'm not arguing torem isn't a good substitute but when we're talking dosage you'd still have to increase torem a ton to get the same positive effect on hpta but you'd probably be a bit safer running that than nolva if you go mg/mg. Thing is you can't dose it that low and get the same effect.

Yes he did want to sell training advice.
Thats a fact.
The anavar/creatine stack sucked for me.
Made me sick.

 

[Cgkone]

He said he was leaving the country and only had time for a couple more clients before he left.

 

[THOR 70]

Why do i feel like everyone is referring to spurfy in past tense anyway? Am i missing something?

I thought he left. Haven’t seen him post anything

 

[BBiceps]

What's funny? Regarding dosage, i wouldn't recommend 40mg of nolva. 20mg is comparable to ~50mg of Clomid.

No, it’s funny to me that you ask for money for your own cycle.

 

[nasrenegade]

Cgkone (hope u spelled that right) I think he said something about selling a protocol. Regardless of intent I cannot take a guy seriously when he claims, 1. Anavar is stronger than trenbolone and 2. His protocol is more efficient than anything else on the market and yet he refuse to tell us why. Either the guy an absolute genius this knows more than anyone else in the community including professional bodybuilders and coaches, even doctors. Or, he's completely lost or just a scam. You decide what to believe..

If those things are true then that's fair, but I can't say I ever saw him try to peddle goods, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.

It's kinda easy to Google clomid vs nolva and see the difference, there are tons of info.

Yea, you think? Where do you think I got the information that Im using? Why do you think I asked for proof of your claim as opposed to another forum bro to back you up?

Nolva was mainly used back in the days as an anti estrogen while clomid was used to increase fertility, why? Because nolva was and still is at the top to fight estrogen. This made people think they were two completely different compounds used for different things. Nolva is much stronger per mg and why does this matter? Not only does it come with far less side effects but you'd have to dose clomid extremely high to even come close to 20 or 40mg mg of nolva which would increase the sides even more. Now I'm not arguing torem isn't a good substitute but when we're talking dosage you'd still have to increase torem a ton to get the same positive effect on hpta but you'd probably be a bit safer running that than nolva if you go mg/mg. Thing is you can't dose it that low and get the same effect.

I know what the compounds are for but that doesn't necessarily solidly your claim. And like I said before, oral tren should effectively be side free since it's dosage is so small. Again, every drug is different and trying to compare them solely in weight skews the information. Saying that nolva is better just because you need less (which creates this snowball effect you mention) is quite asinine.

 

[Cgkone]

If those things are true then that's fair, but I can't say I ever saw him try to peddle goods, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.


Yea, you think? Where do you think I got the information that Im using? Why do you think I asked for proof of your claim as opposed to another forum bro to back you up?



I know what the compounds are for but that doesn't necessarily solidly your claim. And like I said before, oral tren should effectively be side free since it's dosage is so small. Again, every drug is different and trying to compare them solely in weight skews the information. Saying that nolva is better just because you need less (which creates this snowball effect you mention) is quite asinine.

He for sure asked for clients. 100% for sure.
I'm not saying he was a fraud. It didn't work for me.

 

[BBiceps]

Cgkone (hope u spelled that right) I think he said something about selling a protocol. Regardless of intent I cannot take a guy seriously when he claims, 1. Anavar is stronger than trenbolone and 2. His protocol is more efficient than anything else on the market and yet he refuse to tell us why. Either the guy an absolute genius this knows more than anyone else in the community including professional bodybuilders and coaches, even doctors. Or, he's completely lost or just a scam. You decide what to believe..

It's kinda easy to Google clomid vs nolva and see the difference, there are tons of info. Nolva was mainly used back in the days as an anti estrogen while clomid was used to increase fertility, why? Because nolva was and still is at the top to fight estrogen. This made people think they were two completely different compounds used for different things. Nolva is much stronger per mg and why does this matter? Not only does it come with far less side effects but you'd have to dose clomid extremely high to even come close to 20 or 40mg mg of nolva which would increase the sides even more. Now I'm not arguing torem isn't a good substitute but when we're talking dosage you'd still have to increase torem a ton to get the same positive effect on hpta but you'd probably be a bit safer running that than nolva if you go mg/mg. Thing is you can't dose it that low and get the same effect.

I’m no expert but I do like Clomid a lot, it works great for me, my question to this is why Clomid is used by Doctors so much and not Nolva if that’s so much better?

 

[Chados]

If those things are true then that's fair, but I can't say I ever saw him try to peddle goods, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.


Yea, you think? Where do you think I got the information that Im using? Why do you think I asked for proof of your claim as opposed to another forum bro to back you up?



I know what the compounds are for but that doesn't necessarily solidly your claim. And like I said before, oral tren should effectively be side free since it's dosage is so small. Again, every drug is different and trying to compare them solely in weight skews the information. Saying that nolva is better just because you need less (which creates this snowball effect you mention) is quite asinine.

I just answered the question. Nolva has far less sides than clomid, and this has been proven with studies. Clomid isn't as effective as nolva per mg meaning you'd have to dosage clomid very high at maybe 100 mg which would increase the sides even more and not be very cost effective.

Spurfy wasn't as far as I can tell selling products, he was selling a protocol that doesn't work, that has no science behind it.

Theres also science comparing clomid to Nolvadex that shows exactly why one would take nolva ahead of clomid.

 

[rtmilburn]

Cgkone (hope u spelled that right) I think he said something about selling a protocol. Regardless of intent I cannot take a guy seriously when he claims, 1. Anavar is stronger than trenbolone and 2. His protocol is more efficient than anything else on the market and yet he refuse to tell us why. Either the guy an absolute genius this knows more than anyone else in the community including professional bodybuilders and coaches, even doctors. Or, he's completely lost or just a scam. You decide what to believe..

It's kinda easy to Google clomid vs nolva and see the difference, there are tons of info. Nolva was mainly used back in the days as an anti estrogen while clomid was used to increase fertility, why? Because nolva was and still is at the top to fight estrogen. This made people think they were two completely different compounds used for different things. Nolva is much stronger per mg and why does this matter? Not only does it come with far less side effects but you'd have to dose clomid extremely high to even come close to 20 or 40mg mg of nolva which would increase the sides even more. Now I'm not arguing torem isn't a good substitute but when we're talking dosage you'd still have to increase torem a ton to get the same positive effect on hpta but you'd probably be a bit safer running that than nolva if you go mg/mg. Thing is you can't dose it that low and get the same effect.

Ya but almost everyone says clomid is more effective for PCT. Not to mention you should not use nolva with 19nors. This is due to it's significant upregulation of progesterone receptors. Nolva is not the best serm. I'm it's the worst. Best rounded torem, for gyno ralox hands down, for hpta clomid. Nolva is also liver toxic.

 

[Chados]

I’m no expert but I do like Clomid a lot, it works great for me, my question to this is why Clomid is used by Doctors so much and not Nolva if that’s so much better?

Because as I stated nolva is mainly just for estrogen and gyno and is normally prescribed for breastcancer. Clomid has been prescribed for fertility issues, that doesn't mean nolva isn't.

It's an old rumour that separetes these two products when they're actually quite the same. just because nolva had always been the number one for estrogen related issues it's been falsely accused of being just that.

 

[Chados]

Ya but almost everyone says clomid is more effective for PCT. Not to mention you should not use nolva with 19nors. This is due to it's significant upregulation of progesterone receptors. Nolva is not the best serm. I'm it's the worst. Best rounded torem, for gyno ralox hands down, for hpta clomid. Nolva is also liver toxic.

And there it comes.. I was just gonna mention the rumour about nolva and 19 nor. That isn't true either..

 

[rtmilburn]

I just answered the question. Nolva has far less sides than clomid, and this has been proven with studies. Clomid isn't as effective as nolva per mg meaning you'd have to dosage clomid very high at maybe 100 mg which would increase the sides even more and not be very cost effective.

Spurfy wasn't as far as I can tell selling products, he was selling a protocol that doesn't work, that has no science behind it.

Theres also science comparing clomid to Nolvadex that shows exactly why one would take nolva ahead of clomid.

mg to mg argument sucks. It's like saying that tbol is stonger than adrol, because tbol is extremely effective at 40mg but adrol blows the fck out of it at 100mg. Ya adrol also has more side no doubt but it's better.

 

[rtmilburn]

And there it comes.. I was just gonna mention the rumour about nolva and 19 nor. That isn't true either..

Um it's fact that nolva upregulates progesterone receptors.

 

[Transhuman]

Theres also science comparing clomid to Nolvadex that shows exactly why one would take nolva ahead of clomid.

Link the studies.

 

[Chados]

mg to mg argument sucks. It's like saying that tbol is stonger than adrol, because tbol is extremely effective at 40mg but adrol blows the fck out of it at 100mg. Ya adrol also has more side no doubt but it's better.

Not when it comes to sides its not. Very few reported sides with effectube dose with nolva, a lot of sides with clomid at not even effective dose

 

[Chados]

Link the studies.

I really don't have time to look up everything you guys are questioning.

Here's some reading for you.. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tamoxifennolva-vs-clomid-pct-yuki-li

 

[rtmilburn]

Not when it comes to sides its not. Very few reported sides with effectube dose with nolva, a lot of sides with clomid at not even effective dose

Well no sh!t Sherlock. This was never about side effect, it was about better for hpta restoration.

 

[Chados]

Well no sh!t Sherlock. This was never about side effect, it was about better for hpta restoration.

Yes and since clomid has more sides and less effect even at higher dosage nolva is better right?

 

[rtmilburn]

Yes and since clomid has more sides and less effect even at higher dosage nolva is better right?

Ugh I remember why I left this thread alone

 

[Chados]

And here's some more reading, a little about 19 nor and nolva.
https://www.steroidal.com/anti-estrogens-pct/nolvadex/