Tongkat Ali LJ100

[Danes]

I'm planning on doing 1000mg per day, sound like 40% test boost?

Wagner83 gave you perfect answer.
God knows how much % of Test would be increased.
Like I said before, if someone want to take higher dose than 100-200mg daily, make sure you increase the dose gradually.

 

[619sss]

Can Tongkat help on pct? My stupid couch is putting dianabol in my protein idk how much but the weights I have been adding each workout are crazy.... I didn't ask for it, he just put it their, as also my libido went down.

 

[rtmilburn]

Can Tongkat help on pct? My stupid couch is putting dianabol in my protein idk how much but the weights I have been adding each workout are crazy.... I didn't ask for it, he just put it their, as also my libido went down.

Well get a new coach and get clomid

 

[Wagner83]

Man you don't sound like you know anything about what you are doing. I don't use steroids but I would expect that if someone so chooses then he should educate himself a lot before taking the plunge, not even knowing how much roids you're taking is atrocious imo.
Did your coach really add dianobol in your protein shake without warning? Huh who would trust such a guy.

Otherwise I have continued to take 3 caps daily, it's been two weeks now and mood is still way up. Libido is definitely lower compared to the first five days but other factors may play a part too. The last few days I took 3 caps spread out throughout the day (instead of two in the morning + 1 in the afternoon) I don't get the heat effect and have way less muscles tensions.
Speaking of the latter, while I don't get the acute effects I got from 2 at the same time, I'm pretty sure my body adapted in a way to the lj, I'm very relaxed whereas I used to be on the edge quite a lot before .
I may try 2 caps + 2 caps next week to see if it boosts libido again. I already tried 4 caps once but did not notice much difference compared to 3 caps.

Since I'm mostly after libido and mood effects I may go up to 6 caps daily 5 days on 2 days off later on (cheers Danes ) , the sheer amount of lj + the days off may allow for a continuous major boost in libido while limiting expenses to 2 bottles per month. Don't get me wrong though, libido is still up compared to what it was, and as I said, other factors play a part.

I noticed there's an abvious libido boost (feel it in the balls and brain) some time (1 hour or so?) after ingesting the lj and then it goes away.

 

[619sss]

Man you don't sound like you know anything about what you are doing. I don't use steroids but I would expect that if someone so chooses then he should educate himself a lot before taking the plunge, not even knowing how much roids you're taking is atrocious imo.
Did your coach really add dianobol in your protein shake without warning? Huh who would trust such a guy.

Yes, I told him I'll do I anabolic steroid test for blood and protein shake , he freak out like hell, his face color changed.... Then he started to avoid me in the gym, my friend over their told me the couch is scared.

I also knew cause my testicles shrank.

 

[Wagner83]

That's ****ing unbelievable man I hope you inform people of his deeds.

 

[Danes]

Can Tongkat help on pct? My stupid couch is putting dianabol in my protein idk how much but the weights I have been adding each workout are crazy.... I didn't ask for it, he just put it their, as also my libido went down.

Haha that was funny. You are a funny guy arent you???
"My coach is putting dianabol in my protein".
How stupid do you think I am or other on this forum?
My best advice is, If you want any kind of help, be honest !

 

[Danes]

Yes, I told him I'll do I anabolic steroid test for blood and protein shake , he freak out like hell, his face color changed.... Then he started to avoid me in the gym, my friend over their told me the couch is scared.

I also knew cause my testicles shrank.

And my 1000$ question is, how do you know it is Dianabol(if it was coach who added in your protein)? Sorry but this is just fairy tale

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Sounds like a couch potato

 

[Wagner83]

ergo-log.com/how-eurycoma-longifolia-boosts-testosterone-levels.html

They've done it. Researchers at the Universiti Sains Malaysia have worked out how extracts of Eurycoma longifolia – a plant you probably know by the name Tongkat Ali – boost testosterone levels. The extracts contain the compounds eurycomanone and 13-alpha (21) epoxy-eurycomanone, and these boost the production of the hormones LH and FSH.

etc...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23810842

CONCLUSION:

Eurycomanone enhanced testosterone steroidogenesis at the Leydig cells by inhibiting aromatase conversion of testosterone to oestrogen, and at a high concentration may also involve phosphodiesterase inhibition. The quassinoid may be worthy for further development as a phytomedicine to treat testosterone-deficient idiopathic male infertility and sterility.

 

[619sss]

I'm too happy, I got Tongkat Ali research grade......Supplement world is.

 

[Wagner83]

I'm on my second try of lj100, it's been close to 10 days now and I'm not sure the benefits on mood and libido are there anymore. It's possible TA can't make mindset , mood and libido positive every day though, I'll continue to use it until the bottles are empty and will then try an other brand.

 

[hsk]

I'm on my second try of lj100, it's been close to 10 days now and I'm not sure the benefits on mood and libido are there anymore. It's possible TA can't make mindset , mood and libido positive every day though, I'll continue to use it until the bottles are empty and will then try an other brand.

It could be that your body and mind have acclimated to this new level of libido/mood and is readjusting it homeostasis accordingly. Basically you may have built up a tolerance to your current dose of your current product. At this point you have 3 viable options:

1. Try upping the dosage for a few days to see what happens
2. Lowering the dose for a few days before bringing it back to your current dosage
3. Taking a break for 1 or 2 days before going back on your current dose

Personally, I would opt for option 1. Just my opinion though.

 

[Lynks8]

I'm on my second try of lj100, it's been close to 10 days now and I'm not sure the benefits on mood and libido are there anymore. It's possible TA can't make mindset , mood and libido positive every day though, I'll continue to use it until the bottles are empty and will then try an other brand.

How much are you taking?

I've found that LJ simply amplifies my natural mood/libido, which are inherently inconsistent. That is to say, some days I'm not happy/horny; some days I am. When I'm on LJ, I notice a significant boost in libido/mood on the good days, but it isn't going to be balls-to-wall every day.

That said, I notice greater consistency at higher doses (300mg+). Lastly, while LJ's many benefits are best achieved through continuous supplementation, for purely libido/mood boosting, I have found mini-cycles to be effective, (e.g. when effects decrease, take a day or two off, begin again, repeat).

I would choose between 1 and 3 in hsk's recommendations.

 

[Danes]

It could be that your body and mind have acclimated to this new level of libido/mood and is readjusting it homeostasis accordingly. Basically you may have built up a tolerance to your current dose of your current product. At this point you have 3 viable options:

1. Try upping the dosage for a few days to see what happens
2. Lowering the dose for a few days before bringing it back to your current dosage
3. Taking a break for 1 or 2 days before going back on your current dose

Personally, I would opt for option 1. Just my opinion though.

I would go for number one.
As I said many times, even those compounds increase libido +++, it does not mean it will give great libido everyday. There are MANY factors that may decrease libido +++.
Its not like "damn, I have been taking X and Y testbooster but I did not feel so much after 10 days"
We shall not forget those natural test boosters need time to kick in properly and it will not stop working after 1-2 weeks of use.
I would recommend higher dose than 200-300mg for healthy guys with normal T levels. Those having hypogonadism can actually get T levels to normal with just 100-200mg.

 

[hsk]

I would go for number one.
As I said many times, even those compounds increase libido +++, it does not mean it will give great libido everyday. There are MANY factors that may decrease libido +++.
Its not like "damn, I have been taking X and Y testbooster but I did not feel so much after 10 days"
We shall not forget those natural test boosters need time to kick in properly and it will not stop working after 1-2 weeks of use.
I would recommend higher dose than 200-300mg for healthy guys with normal T levels. Those having hypogonadism can actually get T levels to normal with just 100-200mg.

With TA, I personally respond very well to mega doses. I'm still working through the 1kg bag of BulkSupplements 100:1 TA. Currently up to 8 size 00 capsules daily. 4/2/2 dosing daily. Very fun.

 

[Wagner83]

It could be that your body and mind have acclimated to this new level of libido/mood and is readjusting it homeostasis accordingly. Basically you may have built up a tolerance to your current dose of your current product. At this point you have 3 viable options:

1. Try upping the dosage for a few days to see what happens
2. Lowering the dose for a few days before bringing it back to your current dosage
3. Taking a break for 1 or 2 days before going back on your current dose

Personally, I would opt for option 1. Just my opinion though.

I'm trying 1 until I have no more lj and will then try Tonvara or lostempireofherbs. 2 caps at a time twice or three times a day could be better, I used to spread each cap through the day.

How much are you taking?

I've found that LJ simply amplifies my natural mood/libido, which are inherently inconsistent. That is to say, some days I'm not happy/horny; some days I am. When I'm on LJ, I notice a significant boost in libido/mood on the good days, but it isn't going to be balls-to-wall every day.

That said, I notice greater consistency at higher doses (300mg+). Lastly, while LJ's many benefits are best achieved through continuous supplementation, for purely libido/mood boosting, I have found mini-cycles to be effective, (e.g. when effects decrease, take a day or two off, begin again, repeat).

I would choose between 1 and 3 in hsk's recommendations.

400 mg at the moment, did 5 yesterday (was purty nice).

It's a reasonable explanation. Without major events happening , foods and other stuff should play a big part imo. A very obvious example: the voice can resonate fully and sound lower yet most of the time it does not, I'd like to fix that or at least maximize the number of positive days!
Yes I have wondered if for libido and mood (which really is what non hypogonadal men should look for imo) cycling it would be better, I wanted to try it this time but completely failed 8) .

I would go for number one.
As I said many times, even those compounds increase libido +++, it does not mean it will give great libido everyday. There are MANY factors that may decrease libido +++.
Its not like "damn, I have been taking X and Y testbooster but I did not feel so much after 10 days"
We shall not forget those natural test boosters need time to kick in properly and it will not stop working after 1-2 weeks of use.
I would recommend higher dose than 200-300mg for healthy guys with normal T levels. Those having hypogonadism can actually get T levels to normal with just 100-200mg.

Yup this is why I chose option 1, the idea is that I don't need a boost in total T but rather in bio available T , the body could adapt to such changes though .

 

[Danes]

With TA, I personally respond very well to mega doses. I'm still working through the 1kg bag of BulkSupplements 100:1 TA. Currently up to 8 size 00 capsules daily. 4/2/2 dosing daily. Very fun.

Yea.
Healthy guys should take more than 100-200mg to get most of it

 

[UCSMiami]

What other biological pathways could TJ follow? Instead of libido increase? aggressiveness? Nervous energy? etc.etc.

 

[Wagner83]

Not sure what your question is, but it could decrease shbg and maybe E2 a little bit as well, you could become a bit leaner, recover better etc.. At first I was tensed and full of energy and then two weeks later my body had adapted and I was actually very relaxed , quite confident too. Afaik it could lower cortisol.
I need to check BP , I sometimes experience unpleasant sensations in the ear/next to it when I take two in the morning with horse chestnut (could raise BP a little as well), it does not last too long. Not sure if there are any reliable symptoms for high BP .

 

[Wagner83]

For what it's worth:

K.L. Chan, C.Y. Choo

The toxicity of some quassinoids from Eurycoma longifolia

Planta Med, 68 (2002), pp. 662–664

Abstract
The 50% aqueous ethanol extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Simaroubaceace) roots was partitioned with diethyl ether, n-butanol and then water. Acute toxicity studies of each fraction on mice administered orally and brine shrimps revealed that the n-butanol fraction was the most toxic. Toxicity-guided chromatographic fractionation of the n-butanol fraction identified eurycomanone as the most toxic component. 13,21-Dihydroeurycomanone, eurycomanol, longilactone, 14,15β-dihydroxyklaineanone and eurycomanol-2-O-β-glucopyranoside were 2.8, 33, 44, 88.9 and > 100 times less toxic on brine shrimps, respectively. A C20-type quassinoid, an α,β-unsaturated ketone in ring A, an exomethylene function at C-13 and an oxymethylene bridge connecting C-8 and C-11 of ring C contributed to increased toxicity.

Also, source and trustable CoAs are important:

H.H. Ang, E.L. Lee, H.S. Cheang

Determination of mercury by cold vapor atomic absorption spectrophotometer in Tongkat Ali preparations obtained in Malaysia

Int J Toxicol, 23 (2004), pp. 65–71

Abstract
The DCA (Drug Control Authority), Malaysia, has implemented the phase 3 registration of traditional medicines on 1 January 1992, with special emphasis on the quality, efficacy, and safety (including the presence of heavy metals) in all pharmaceutical dosage forms of traditional medicine preparations. As such, a total of 100 products in various pharmaceutical dosage forms of a herbal preparation, containing Tongkat Ali, were analyzed for mercury content using cold vapor atomic absorption spectrophotometer. Results showed that 36% of the above products possessed 0.52 to 5.30 ppm of mercury and, therefore, do not comply with the quality requirement for traditional medicines in Malaysia. Out of these 36 products, 5 products that possessed 1.05 to 4.41 ppm of mercury were in fact have already registered with the DCA, Malaysia. However, the rest of the products that contain 0.52 to 5.30 ppm of mercury still have not registered with the DCA, Malaysia. Although this study showed that only 64% of the products complied with the quality requirement for traditional medicines in Malaysia pertaining to mercury, they cannot be assumed safe from mercury contamination because of batch-to-batch inconsistency.

From: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0367326X10000845#bib60

In addition to the aphrodisiac effects, Eurycoma can also increase sperm production and may directly act as a proerectile agent. At least one molecule in Eurycoma (9-hydroxycanthin-6-one) is associated with both a delay in ejaculation as well as pro-erectile properties (although the ability of this molecule to act via consuming Eurycoma extract is not known).

(From examine)

An other fun extract to make, one standardized to this particular molecule ?

 

[hsk]

You should really go higher than 400mg. For LJ100 I think 800mg or higher is really where its at. As for bulk extracts, you really have to play with each one individually, but for the most part I feel you will need at least 1g-1.5g for bulk powders.

 

[Danes]

You should really go higher than 400mg. For LJ100 I think 800mg or higher is really where its at. As for bulk extracts, you really have to play with each one individually, but for the most part I feel you will need at least 1g-1.5g for bulk powders.

This!

 

[ucheoma]

You should really go higher than 400mg. For LJ100 I think 800mg or higher is really where its at. As for bulk extracts, you really have to play with each one individually, but for the most part I feel you will need at least 1g-1.5g for bulk powders.

At 800mg a bottle of OL LJ100 would last barely one wk! A bit too costly for my wallet

 

[Danes]

At 800mg a bottle of OL LJ100 would last barely one wk! A bit too costly for my wallet

Costly yes, but rather using LJ100 at 400-800mg than many supplements we throw our money on without any effect

 

[hsk]

Costly yes, but rather using LJ100 at 400-800mg than many supplements we throw our money on without any effect

Yes, I concur. Better to throw money at something that works vs taking a crap shoot on something may or may not have any effect at all.

 

[Danes]

studies done on Water extract of TA.(Physta). It is VERY similar to LJ100.

The results suggest that ingestion of the root water extract of TA (Physta®) enhances comprehensive immunity in both middle-aged men and women

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26816234

The EL group showed higher scores in the overall Erectile Function domain in IIEF (P < 0.001), sexual libido (14% by week 12), SFA- with sperm motility at 44.4%, and semen volume at 18.2% at the end of treatment. Subjects with BMI ≥ 25 kg/m(2) significantly improved in fat mass lost (P = 0.008). All safety parameters were comparable to placebo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23243445

 

[Ape McGrapes]

I haven't felt anything at 200mg the two times I tried it. Once with solo caps, and once in a formula. I'd like to try higher doses of TA but don't want to waste the money just to experiment.

Maca is the same way for me.

 

[Wagner83]

You should really go higher than 400mg. For LJ100 I think 800mg or higher is really where its at. As for bulk extracts, you really have to play with each one individually, but for the most part I feel you will need at least 1g-1.5g for bulk powders.

It depends , the last time I used 300mg it felt like a very good adaptogen , giving a slight boost in libido too. At the end I took pycnogenol as well so I can't say whether TA was the only reason to be relaxed or not (pycnogenol lowers blood pressure and is good for veins etc..). I'm on 400-500mg now, I may try more.

studies done on Water extract of TA.(Physta). It is VERY similar to LJ100.

The results suggest that ingestion of the root water extract of TA (Physta®) enhances comprehensive immunity in both middle-aged men and women

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26816234

The EL group showed higher scores in the overall Erectile Function domain in IIEF (P < 0.001), sexual libido (14% by week 12), SFA- with sperm motility at 44.4%, and semen volume at 18.2% at the end of treatment. Subjects with BMI ≥ 25 kg/m(2) significantly improved in fat mass lost (P = 0.008). All safety parameters were comparable to placebo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23243445

TA does look very good for fertility, this has been confirmed numerous times.

I haven't felt anything at 200mg the two times I tried it. Once with solo caps, and once in a formula. I'd like to try higher doses of TA but don't want to waste the money just to experiment.

Maca is the same way for me.

Did you take them at once? Did you try it for only two days or was it two bottles?

 

[Wagner83]

I'm not feeling too good soon after taking 2 caps, this has happened consistently, unpleasant sensations in the ear and a bit of pressure at the temples atm.

To be honest with the 4-5 caps a day I often have night erections and morning wood (both were nowhere to be seen despite healthy diet and young age) , it's not as hard as a brick but it's good, a supplement which probably helps a lot with this ( TA aside) is horse chestnut extract (pick Life extension). Combining pycnogenol and horse chestnut extract should be excellent for vein health and erection hardness. Other possible combinations are described here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/285882-citrulline-pycnogenol-erections.html , pycnogenol could be great for joints too .

 

[Ape McGrapes]

It depends , the last time I used 300mg it felt like a very good adaptogen , giving a slight boost in libido too. At the end I took pycnogenol as well so I can't say whether TA was the only reason to be relaxed or not (pycnogenol lowers blood pressure and is good for veins etc..). I'm on 400-500mg now, I may try more.


TA does look very good for fertility, this has been confirmed numerous times.



Did you take them at once? Did you try it for only two days or was it two bottles?

The LJ100 pills I tried for 30 days, and the test booster(I won't name) for eight weeks. Both at 200mg split.

The Maca I tried also in a test booster, and solo as BPS MacaPro.

There are a few ingrediants I have responded too though.

 

[Wagner83]

As for maca you don't want it in caps, you can buy stuff like maca monster from therootofthematter or there are other sites (e.g skyfieldtropicals) which sell legit organic maca, you just have to do your own research (gelatinized maca is easier on the stomach for example).

 

[horizons]

I experienced some hair loss with high dose of LJ100 and some high BP

I am on fin for my hair loss though

 

[Wagner83]

My hair loss is progressing badly as well. I have not checked BP but it seems quite a few guys experience high BP , and yet online it's recommended as a treatment for high BP.

 

[horizons]

My hair loss is progressing badly as well. I have not checked BP but it seems quite a few guys experience high BP , and yet online it's recommended as a treatment for high BP.

I am starting to think that it could be a side effect for people that are prone

 

[Lynks8]

Interesting. I'm 33, prone to significant hair loss and have not had any increased shedding with 400+mg LJ100, nor 800mg of a bulk LJ powder I once tried. I do not take finasteride either. I'll have to check on BP more carefully during my next run, but I have very steady BP as is.

 

[Danes]

Interesting. I'm 33, prone to significant hair loss and have not had any increased shedding with 400+mg LJ100, nor 800mg of a bulk LJ powder I once tried. I do not take finasteride either. I'll have to check on BP more carefully during my next run, but I have very steady BP as is.

I will ask Dr. Tambi about shedding on TA. Honestly, never experienced any shedding/not my friends either

 

[horizons]

I will ask Dr. Tambi about shedding on TA. Honestly, never experienced any shedding/not my friends either

Want to keep up with it as I love the effects!

Interesting no one else is experiencing it

 

[Danes]

Want to keep up with it as I love the effects!

Interesting no one else is experiencing it

Tongkat Ali is amazing and it works

 

[ma70]

For what it's worth, no shedding on LJ100 either. I'm using a paltry dose of 200mg though.

 

[Wagner83]

I was using 400-500 mg the past days , libido and well being were again excellent (I guess I just had normal up and downs), now I 'm off it and off horse chestnut extract for two days and it's gone again (erections+libido is low), kind of crazy to have to rely on something like lj at a young age and healthy, but it's better than feeling ****! I think in the future I may use it as an adaptogen, it does seem to have good effects if used in the 200-400 mg a day (spread out through the day) mid term.

If I fancy it I'll add scalp massage/detumescence therapy , although it's really hard to keep up with it in the long run.

Has anyone looked into the possible toxicity of eurycomanone I posted earlier in the thread?

 

[hsk]

I'm genetically prone to hair loss as well, and so far I have experience no shedding while using TA. I have used up to 800mg of LJ100 daily, and I have mega dosed bulk extracts higher than 3 grams daily with no shedding.

 

[Wagner83]

Maybe it's a sign of how TA affects the blood pressure of the individual. I remember it did not have any effect on yours.

 

[horizons]

I'm genetically prone to hair loss as well, and so far I have experience no shedding while using TA. I have used up to 800mg of LJ100 daily, and I have mega dosed bulk extracts higher than 3 grams daily with no shedding.

I experienced more thinning than any noticeable shedding

I am still taking lj100. At 33 nothing beats it

 

[Wagner83]

A really interesting study on Tongkat Ali safety:

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2013/102987/

The "4. Discussion" part at the end is interesting.

 

[UCSMiami]

Discussion last para:
"Currently, long-term consumption of E. longifolia root extract has been associated with sleep apnea, facial flushing, pressure in the testicles, and hyperaggressiveness. However, no scientific evidence supporting these side effects has been found. Furthermore, no detailed clinical evidence supports the use of specific doses of E. longifolia. According to the recommended intake for humans, a dosage of 100–600 mg/day (water extract) exerted pharmacological effects in men after 2–8 weeks of supplementation [34], and a reference daily dose level of 270–350 mg/kg was found to be rather safe [3]. In this study, toxicity assessments were based on standard guidelines that can be easily comparable between laboratories. Our data showed that neither acute nor subchronic/delayed toxicity was found. Therefore, a dose of 2 g/kg b.w./day of E. longifolia powdered root, generated from our 13-week subchronic toxicity study, can be considered as a no observed adverse effect level (NOAEL). The calculated acceptable daily intake (ADI) is up to 1.2 g/60 kg adult/day (with a safety factor of 100), equivalent to 12 times the recommended intake dosage for humans (100 mg/60 kg adult/day). This information will be useful in the development of E. longifolia products and management of the safety profile for this herbal medicine."

I wonder why I went beserker crazy that one day I tried it.

 

[619sss]

Aggression seems to peak for me 2nd week at high dose 800mg research grade then falls. Same thing for libido

 

[Wagner83]

I wonder why I went beserker crazy that one day I tried it.

You mean as in quantity you ingested?

Aggression seems to peak for me 2nd week at high dose 800mg research grade then falls. Same thing for libido

How long did you try it and for how long have you noticed a drop?

 

[Danes]

I'm genetically prone to hair loss as well, and so far I have experience no shedding while using TA. I have used up to 800mg of LJ100 daily, and I have mega dosed bulk extracts higher than 3 grams daily with no shedding.

I got email from Dr.Tambi and he said there was no shedding in his patients at all. Even in healthy males.

 

[Wagner83]

Can we trust Dr Tambi though? I mean all his studies were shown at conferences and are not available in medical journals, it's also hard to know whether or not he has a commercial interest in the business, it seems he could be connected with (father of?) lj100.

Tell him Wagner himself said he noticed more forehead than usual.