Best OTC AI

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Have you tried products that contain arimistane?
AlphaMax contains a full dosage of 75mg arimistane to compliment it's pro-anabolic formula
 
Formeron was the best and is now gone from the ban.

You can try arimistane it does help and definitely dries you out. Check out Primeval Labs Erosion.

50mg/cap of arimistane, 3 caps/day totals to 150mg 90 caps.

Check out the sale right now over at PHW. erosion for 29.74/ bottle with COUPON CODE: PRIMEVAL15 Great deal

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bighulksmash said:
IronAddiction you are the man !!! Thanks so much ... iron is one of my top go to guys for any intelligence related matters this guy knows so much from molecular level all the way up to the exact chemical breakdown of each substance and its metabolites. Definitely one of best guys on here for any knowledge of Bodybuilding in many different facets. God bless IronAddiction! !!!!!
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Much thanks bighulksmash. Appreciate the kind words brother.
 
Quads_of_Stee said:
Have you tried products that contain arimistane?
AlphaMax contains a full dosage of 75mg arimistane to compliment it's pro-anabolic formula
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PHW is having a sale on Alphamax for 20% off bringing the total to 28/bottle, you get the full 75mg Arimistane but so much more as well including a full daily dose of 50mg of Forskolin, which sold as a single ingredient goes for around 25-30 itself.
 
definitely give one of these arimistane products a try if you have already tried everything else. as you can see any of our board reps/sponsors can help you out.
 
Sss23 if you already tried letrone, how was your success with it?
People have logged and reviewed BLR on here a bunch and they seem to be well received. Why not grab an arimistane oral and combine it with a td like exotherm, should dry you out extremely. Jebrook from my experience that exotherm def amps up the heat which is a plus for shredding down.

For me I don't think anything will top BLR's old formeron. That stuff was insane. That damn ban....
 
Inhibit E is another solid option. Fat loss (to lower E conversion) and E lowering mechanisms make it one of the top choices around
 
IronAddiction said:
Sss23 if you already tried letrone, how was your success with it?
People have logged and reviewed BLR on here a bunch and they seem to be well received. Why not grab an arimistane oral and combine it with a td like exotherm, should dry you out extremely. Jebrook from my experience that exotherm def amps up the heat which is a plus for shredding down.

For me I don't think anything will top BLR's old formeron. That stuff was insane. That damn ban....
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RIP Formeron...long live Exotherm! Fortunately I still have Form in my stash! Honestly I like Exo almost as much. It's not as strong or anabolic but the fat burning and energy boosting capabilities are top notch.
IronAddiction the possibilities of combining an Arimistane product like Erosion with Exotherm are interesting. Increased estrogen control x 3 AI's, two fat burners, plus cortisol reduction? That is interesting...hmmm.
 
Jebrook said:
RIP Formeron...long live Exotherm! Fortunately I still have Form in my stash! Honestly I like Exo almost as much. It's not as strong or anabolic but the fat burning and energy boosting capabilities are top notch.
IronAddiction the possibilities of combining an Arimistane product like Erosion with Exotherm are interesting. Increased estrogen control x 3 AI's, two fat burners, plus cortisol reduction? That is interesting...hmmm.
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Whats the highest dose anyone has ever run letro successfully? And would you find it more beneficial to run letro during cycle or post cycle ?
 
bighulksmash said:
Whats the highest dose anyone has ever run letro successfully? And would you find it more beneficial to run letro during cycle or post cycle ?
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You talking about Letrone? If so I believe 4 caps is the highest without killing their joints if I recall. One of the betas was on a heavy test/deca cycle and went as high as 5 I think but went back down to four I like it for on cycle with moderate to heavy compounds but it's anabolic benefits make a strong case for PCT or even solo.
 
Jebrook said:
You talking about Letrone? If so I believe 4 caps is the highest without killing their joints if I recall. One of the betas was on a heavy test/deca cycle and went as high as 5 I think but went back down to four I like it for on cycle with moderate to heavy compounds but it's anabolic benefits make a strong case for PCT or even solo.
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Definitely , letrone ...thinking of tossing it in my pct .... unless the e stays low enough. I agree the research is there. Id probably run at 4 caps just to see how it goes maybe week 2 pct thru week 4 . I front loaded clom and now iam feeling good day 3 pct off a long 8 month trip maybe 2 2 week breaks. Looking forward to seeing how this ends .
 
bighulksmash said:
Definitely , letrone ...thinking of tossing it in my pct .... unless the e stays low enough. I agree the research is there. Id probably run at 4 caps just to see how it goes maybe week 2 pct thru week 4 . I front loaded clom and now iam feeling good day 3 pct off a long 8 month trip maybe 2 2 week breaks. Looking forward to seeing how this ends .
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You said you blow up like a puffer fish right? You said you were gonna cut after your cycle. Why not do what Iron and I talked about and combine Exo and Erosion. Your cortisol and E Levels gotta be all out of whack after that long. The fat burners would reveal the muscle you've put on under the bloat. Think about it.
 
Jebrook said:
You said you blow up like a puffer fish right? You said you were gonna cut after your cycle. Why not do what Iron and I talked about and combine Exo and Erosion. Your cortisol and E Levels gotta be all out of whack after that long. The fat burners would reveal the muscle you've put on under the bloat. Think about it.
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Iam on it going to place a order by monday . Definitely worth the trying . my case is a good example. Thanks guys for the good idea !!! Jebrook IronAddiction
 
Sss23 You can also try AR1MACARE PRO which contains 2 ai's plus full liver protection, or standalone we have ELIM1NATE. I'm sure they will be popping up on sale at various retailers for Labor Day Savings :D
 
Jebrook said:
RIP Formeron...long live Exotherm! Fortunately I still have Form in my stash! Honestly I like Exo almost as much. It's not as strong or anabolic but the fat burning and energy boosting capabilities are top notch.
IronAddiction the possibilities of combining an Arimistane product like Erosion with Exotherm are interesting. Increased estrogen control x 3 AI's, two fat burners, plus cortisol reduction? That is interesting...hmmm.
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For as much as I loved Formeron, I think Letrone is much better. I have a stash of Form that I haven't touched because Letrone is just better.
 
kisaj said:
For as much as I loved Formeron, I think Letrone is much better. I have a stash of Form that I haven't touched because Letrone is just better.
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wow really? I will have to look into that. In the mean time me needs your help with 1 form btl. :wavey:
 
Jiigzz said:
Inhibit E is another solid option. Fat loss (to lower E conversion) and E lowering mechanisms make it one of the top choices around
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Definitely a great option. Saw better results off inhibit e than other similar products I've tried. The OG Erase was one of my favorites as well.
 
Sss23 said:
I've tried erase pro, letrone, and formeron any other suggestions?
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Give Exotherm a try. Similar carrier to Formeron just slightly improved. Its got 2 AIs (Atractylodes and Chrysin) in it plus 2 fat burners = stearoyl vanillylamide and Cirsium OG.
At 3 pumps this stuff is amazing. For most its just under the dose that causes severe joint pain with a strong dose of the fat burners. Perfect.
Some do have joint issues and require dose adjustment but most dont.
 
IronAddiction said:
wow really? I will have to look into that. In the mean time me needs your help with 1 form btl. :wavey:
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I think youll be impressed.
As an AI its very good. For sure the best natural AI I have ever come across.
In addition it increases HGH and Ghrelin levels (makes me SUPER hungry) plus can increase IGF-1, T3,T4, and cAMP.
Great stuff.
 
Inhibit-E works great. I know I'm a rep, but I have bloods that show it lowered my estradiol drastically. I'll have to find the numbers.
 
ATD is an antiandrogen. It blocks testosterone and other androgens from binding to the androgen receptor. So...anything that prevents androgens from binding to the receptor is BAD news in my book.

Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26.
Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.

Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY.

Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029.
Abstract

The aromatization hypothesis asserts that testosterone (T) must be aromatized to estradiol (E2) to activate copulatory behavior in the male rat. In support of this hypothesis, the aromatization inhibitor, ATD, has been found to suppress male sexual behavior in T-treated rats. In our experiment, we first replicated this finding by peripherally injecting ATD (15 mg/day) or propylene glycol into T-treated (two 10-mm Silastic capsules) or control castrated male rats. In a second experiment, we bilaterally implanted either ATD-filled or blank cannulae into the medial preoptic area (MPOA) of either T-treated or control castrated male rats. With this more local distribution of ATD, a lesser decline in sexual behavior was found, suggesting that other brain areas are involved in the neurohormonal activation of copulatory behavior in the male rat. To determine whether in vivo ATD interacts with androgen or estrogen receptors, we conducted cell nuclear androgen and estrogen receptor binding assays of hypothalamus, preoptic area, amygdala, and septum following treatment with the combinations of systemic T alone. ATD plus T, ATD alone, and blank control. In all four brain areas binding of T to androgen receptors was significantly decreased in the presence of ATD, suggesting that ATD may act both as an androgen receptor blocker and as an aromatization inhibitor. Competitive binding studies indicated that ATD competes in vitro for cytosol androgen receptors, thus substantiating the in vivo antiandrogenic effects of ATD. Cell nuclear estrogen receptor binding was not significantly increased by exposure to T in the physiological range. No agonistic properties of ATD were observed either behaviorally or biochemically. Thus, an alternative explanation for the inhibitory effects of ATD on male sexual behavior is that ATD prevents T from binding to androgen receptors.

PMID: 2925181 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6oxo isnt terrible but its only available in the UK and its probably expensive.
I still think Letrone or Exotherm for the win.
 
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bighulksmash said:
Whats the highest dose anyone has ever run letro successfully? And would you find it more beneficial to run letro during cycle or post cycle ?
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I ran 3 caps/day for a while just taking it with some natty test boosters and it didn't crush my Estro too bad.

Not sure there was a big difference between 2 and 3 caps so I ended up kicking it back down to 2 after a while. Seemed to dry me up a bit and I leaned up a tad in my recomp.

Total time on Letrone was like 8 weeks or so
 
bighulksmash said:
Whats the highest dose anyone has ever run letro successfully? And would you find it more beneficial to run letro during cycle or post cycle ?
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During testing and logs a few guys went up to 4-5 caps. Most couldnt tolerate the joint issues that showed after 2-3 caps. Some experience it at 1.
The guys who went up above 2 were all on super high doses of AAS. Like one was running cyp, suspension, dbol, deca.
I wouldnt suggest more than 2 caps without something else on board that raises estrogen.
Could combine it with Viron and run a higher dose but I dont think more than 2 is needed.
 
Would you guys suggest to a newbie a solo run of Arimistane for recomping? I was considering to try it it before going with a PH.
What are your thoughts on this?
Do i run it as recommended on the bottle?
 
Check out Alphamax, has a full dose of Arimistane but also contains a full 50mg 95% Forskolin which clinically proven to increase Lean Body Mass while decreasing fat mass, perfect for recomping!
 
ybg said:
Would you guys suggest to a newbie a solo run of Arimistane for recomping? I was considering to try it it before going with a PH.
What are your thoughts on this?
Do i run it as recommended on the bottle?
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I would suggest Letrone. Its an exceptionally strong AI but also may increase HGH, IGF-1 t3,t4 cAMP and Ghrelin. Because of the ghrelin increase many users notice increased hunger. This makes it great for lean gains. All the benefits of the AI plus significant anabolic potential and increased metabolism.
 
This is my first time looking at letrone, but I'm a little shocked no one has pointed this out yet...


"The results indicated that atractylenolide I (1),
atractylenolide II (2) and atractylenolide III (3) had inhibition ratios of 94.56 ± 0.70%,
90.93 ± 1.41% and 86.31 ± 8.46%, respectively, at a concentration of 10 μM. "

So you need a concentration of 10 uM to get this strong AI effect. The writeup lists isolated absorption data, but does not speak to subsequent metabolism. Thankfully, there is a paper showing what happens to the compound after it is administered:

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Cmax is the MAXIMUM concentration achieved after dosing. The dose was 20g/kg in rats, equivalent to 260 grams in a 180 lb person.

The Cmax at this dose was 7.99 ug/L, which means the molar concentration was 0.035 uM. This concentration is 300 times less than the concentration shown to have AI effects (and keep in mind, 0.035 uM is the MAXIMUM concentration). Assuming linear pharmacokinetics, you would need:

300 (the factor by which the concentration is too low) x 260g (the dose administered to get this concentration).

This would mean that to get the results advertised in this thread/the product writeup, you would need to take 78,000 grams of pure atractylenolide. For most people, that would mean eating your entire body weight in pure compound. Take into account that letrone is an extract and not the pure compound, and you're probably looking at 100kg+ of this compound in one sitting.

The study also showed a halflife of 2 hours. This cannot even be remotely compared to aromasin (bioactive life 72 hours), arimidex (48-72 hours), etc...

1 MILLIGRAM of arimidex every 3 days would have a similar effect to eating 100,000 grams of letrone's active compound every 2 hours.

To even say that letrone can help control estrogen in people taking aromatizing compounds is frankly very irresponsible. We're talking about people here, not just numbers on a sales sheet.
 
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