Best OTC AI

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kboxer7

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I am not, nor have I ever been, in the business of bashing any company, and I hope we can all keep this discussion to the science. Personal attacks have no merit or value on this board.

With that said, I bought 3 bottles of Letrone during the launch based off of Brundel's reputation on the board, and based on the assumption he had plenty of bloodwork done during beta testing to back up his claims. OL rep or not, I have a monetary and personal health interest in hashing out the truth about how effective (or not) letrone is.

I'm sensitive to estrogen sides and it is important to me to know to what degree of effectiveness an AI will work.

From an anecdotal standpoint it seemed "ok" as an AI. I ran it up to 3 caps a day without being on any exogenous hormones, AAS, etc. The only thing that would have affected my natty hormones included: ZMA, D3, LongJack, 3,4 divanil, Boron.

I'm well in tune with my body and understand what it feels like to have E levels too low. Been there, done that. While I feel like letrone did dry me out a bit, it felt more to me like most other otc AIs out there and not the estrogen crushing machine it was touted to be. Now, I don't have bloodwork to back up how I felt, and thus have no way to substantiate my anecdotal thoughts on the product.

Did I "feel" like it had AI properties? Yes. Do I feel like it crushed estrogen like it was said to at even 2 caps? Not even close. Could I be wrong? Sure. I'm in this thread to provide my feedback and to learn from the wealth of knowledgeable ladies and gentlemen we have on this board, not because I'm a rep from a competing company out to "bash the competition."
 
mechka_grizli

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I'm hoping this doesn't degenerate into company rep versus company rep. There's no need for that. If a specific compound doesn't have the science to back it's claims then so be it. But that's no reason to insinuate that it's just a simple matter of a rep from a competing company making a baseless attack. Let's try to keep this discussion based on science. No matter what company a user may represent, we all likely use products from other companies as well. This thread is about what the best OTC AI is, to answer such a question science will likely be involved...
This! Lets keep it to the science and not have it turn into company attacks

Totally understood man. No hard feelings at all and appreciate your opinion. I am like yourself, not a scientist. I'm a very cautious consumer. I can appreciate Mrcooper's post a lot. Honestly I'll will have to re read the study many times to fully understand all the data and jargon. And I will. The thing is that all of these competitors are discounting us based upon their interpretation of the data off a study involving rats. If I had the means to conduct a bulletproof scientific study I would. Alas, very few scientific studies are perfect. I am simply saying that the results of Letrone are contradictory thus far to the data posted earlier. Contradicory enough that it's too early for other reps to be writing off Letrone. Arimistane had contradictory studies as well, but..let's not even go there. mw1, I apologize for my response sounding insulting. I will Go back and edit it as you did yours to be more appropriate. I am simply standing up for the products I represent and providing another POV. All opinions are worthwhile when presented respectfully.
Arimistane being a perfect example of science says it work but it not always translating to real world. I take arimistane for the cortisol and diuretic properties. 3 separate blood panels and it has yet to show a decrease in estro for me.

As a side note rat studies said that tribulus was a strong test booster.......
 
mechka_grizli

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I am not, nor have I ever been, in the business of bashing any company, and I hope we can all keep this discussion to the science. Personal attacks have no merit or value on this board.

With that said, I bought 3 bottles of Letrone during the launch based off of Brundel's reputation on the board, and based on the assumption he had plenty of bloodwork done during beta testing to back up his claims. OL rep or not, I have a monetary and personal health interest in hashing out the truth about how effective (or not) letrone is.

I'm sensitive to estrogen sides and it is important to me to know to what degree of effectiveness an AI will work.

From an anecdotal standpoint it seemed "ok" as an AI. I ran it up to 3 caps a day without being on any exogenous hormones, AAS, etc. The only thing that would have affected my natty hormones included: ZMA, D3, LongJack, 3,4 divanil, Boron.

I'm well in tune with my body and understand what it feels like to have E levels too low. Been there, done that. While I feel like letrone did dry me out a bit, it felt more to me like most other otc AIs out there and not the estrogen crushing machine it was touted to be. Now, I don't have bloodwork to back up how I felt, and thus have no way to substantiate my anecdotal thoughts on the product.

Did I "feel" like it had AI properties? Yes. Do I feel like it crushed estrogen like it was said to at even 2 caps? Not even close. Could I be wrong? Sure. I'm in this thread to provide my feedback and to learn from the wealth of knowledgeable ladies and gentlemen we have on this board, not because I'm a rep from a competing company out to "bash the competition."
This is what we need MORE of
 
Woody

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I am not, nor have I ever been, in the business of bashing any company, and I hope we can all keep this discussion to the science. Personal attacks have no merit or value on this board.

With that said, I bought 3 bottles of Letrone during the launch based off of Brundel's reputation on the board, and based on the assumption he had plenty of bloodwork done during beta testing to back up his claims. OL rep or not, I have a monetary and personal health interest in hashing out the truth about how effective (or not) letrone is.

I'm sensitive to estrogen sides and it is important to me to know to what degree of effectiveness an AI will work.

From an anecdotal standpoint it seemed "ok" as an AI. I ran it up to 3 caps a day without being on any exogenous hormones, AAS, etc. The only thing that would have affected my natty hormones included: ZMA, D3, LongJack, 3,4 divanil, Boron.

I'm well in tune with my body and understand what it feels like to have E levels too low. Been there, done that. While I feel like letrone did dry me out a bit, it felt more to me like most other otc AIs out there and not the estrogen crushing machine it was touted to be. Now, I don't have bloodwork to back up how I felt, and thus have no way to substantiate my anecdotal thoughts on the product.

Did I "feel" like it had AI properties? Yes. Do I feel like it crushed estrogen like it was said to at even 2 caps? Not even close. Could I be wrong? Sure. I'm in this thread to provide my feedback and to learn from the wealth of knowledgeable ladies and gentlemen we have on this board, not because I'm a rep from a competing company out to "bash the competition."
Kboxer7 with the rational haymaker!!!
 

ucheoma

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Jebrook, I don't understand what you mean by saying I'm trying to make 'competitors happy'? I think you should have paused and thought through things a bit before coming out all guns blazing because you have not addressed the issue that was raised in the slightest and indeed appear to have backed off and admitted you do not know the science enough. Perhaps you should have left the comeback to someone that does.

My call for a response was not to inflame an argument but rather me seeking reassurance that the product I have bought (yes, Letrone)) is not simply bunk and I have not thrown my money down the drain. You will find that Letrone is one of the more expensive AIs out there and was priced on the hype of being 'better than formeron'. I don't want to open a bottle with a negative mindset just hoping it might work. For me the only thing that would put this to bed is seeing some bloodwork. We all know that scientific studies aren't the be all or end all on whether a product works. But if the science is dubious then real life hard data is called for anecdotal logs wont cut it
 

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Check out Alphamax, has a full dose of Arimistane but also contains a full 50mg 95% Forskolin which clinically proven to increase Lean Body Mass while decreasing fat mass, perfect for recomping!
I did some research because Alphamax sounds like what i'm looking for and then came across this point in another thread:

"12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)"

I'm new here so i cannot post links yet. The thread's title is "Gyno from Dermacrine/Alpha Mass HELP!" , post #13

Wouldn't forskolin be a problem when in a supplement that contains an AI? I mean what's the point of Arimistane when Forskolin could increase estrogen?

I was thinking i should get leaner (with some help from an AI) before starting my first PH cycle as i have a bit of fat on my chest and i was afraid of gyno during a cycle.

I may be completely wrong though.
 
Woody

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I did some research because Alphamax sounds like what i'm looking for and then came across this point in another thread:

"12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)"

I'm new here so i cannot post links yet. The thread's title is "Gyno from Dermacrine/Alpha Mass HELP!" , post #13

Wouldn't forskolin be a problem when in a supplement that contains an AI? I mean what's the point of Arimistane when Forskolin could increase estrogen?

I was thinking i should get leaner (with some help from an AI) before starting my first PH cycle as i have a bit of fat on my chest and i was afraid of gyno during a cycle.

I may be completely wrong though.
IIRC, this has been addressed by Coop. Though I don't recall his exact words, I do believe the increase in E from F95, is either overstated or not enough to cause an issue.
 
mechka_grizli

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Jebrook, I don't understand what you mean by saying I'm trying to make 'competitors happy'? I think you should have paused and thought through things a bit before coming out all guns blazing because you have not addressed the issue that was raised in the slightest and indeed appear to have backed off and admitted you do not know the science enough. Perhaps you should have left the comeback to someone that does.

My call for a response was not to inflame an argument but rather me seeking reassurance that the product I have bought (yes, Letrone)) is not simply bunk and I have not thrown my money down the drain. You will find that Letrone is one of the more expensive AIs out there and was priced on the hype of being 'better than formeron'. I don't want to open a bottle with a negative mindset just hoping it might work. For me the only thing that would put this to bed is seeing some bloodwork. We all know that scientific studies aren't the be all or end all on whether a product works. But if the science is dubious then real life hard data is called for anecdotal logs wont cut it
Arimistane and tribulus have REAL HARD data but neither translate to humans. Bloodwork has been done and has been posted, but maybe not in the way people want. Meaning there were other variables at play.
chedapalooza would have probably been the best evidence yet. But because of this thread he seems to be discouraged.

It seems that everyone is waiting around to see bloods. Even those who bought the product already. In reality it should be the opposite. If you purchased the product, use it and see for yourself. If you have yet to purchase Letrone then feel free to wait on bloodwork. I am not a rep for anyone but this got out of hand real quickly. Personal and company attacks. Which have no place on AM.

I would be highly pissed if the product didn't match up to expectations so I eagerly await to see how this pans out. But I also notice that BLR got attacked on Follidrone and now epi is one of everyone's favorite ingredients. Longjack has been out for ever but we can't ignore that since Viron has come out, several top brands have released their own long jack product. There is a trend here.

But I can't ignore the science on this one. Things don't look good scientifically but the results everyone is getting is contradicting the science.
 
thebigt

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i believe i speak for almost all of us when i ask you to please never hold back again, you seem to be one of the most valuable posters on this entire board from what i have read.


and back to topic in general:
what are everyone's thoughts on acacetin and tracheloside? especially acacetin seems to be pretty strong in vitro (i believe it was linked somewhere in the alphadex writeup, but i cant seem to find it anymore), but i cannot read data in context like you furion and cooper people evidently can, so again i would be very grateful for an interpretation of the data out there.
i am on an all natural pct after 7 years on trt....i have been using get diesels new ai E2-X included as my only ai, so far so good. ACACETIN is the main ing....i have 1 more day of 1st bottle and have another bottle that will last me up to my next blood test oct 5......EXCEPT FOR 1ST DAY I HAVE BEEN DOSING 2 PER DAY AS PER LABEL INSTRUCTIONS....this means a bottle will last a full month, and costs $35.95 per bottle. i will be posting blood test results probably oct 6 if anyone is interested.


just thought i would throw this into the mix as an alternative to the ai's already mentioned....btw, i am also a fan of inhibit-e, good bang for not so much bucks
 
T-Bone

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But I can't ignore the science on this one. Things don't look good scientifically but the results everyone is getting is contradicting the science.

By everyone, do you mean people that already purchased the product believing it would work before the purchase?. Another thing, I haven't seen any personal attacks here yet. People are just discussing ingredients. They already purchased it, of course they want to believe it's gonna work. No one likes wasting money. I bet a lot more people are gonna post praise of a product that worked rather then report that a product didn't work for them on forum where that product is extremely popular for some reason or another....
 
Jebrook

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Jebrook, I don't understand what you mean by saying I'm trying to make 'competitors happy'? I think you should have paused and thought through things a bit before coming out all guns blazing because you have not addressed the issue that was raised in the slightest and indeed appear to have backed off and admitted you do not know the science enough. Perhaps you should have left the comeback to someone that does.

My call for a response was not to inflame an argument but rather me seeking reassurance that the product I have bought (yes, Letrone)) is not simply bunk and I have not thrown my money down the drain. You will find that Letrone is one of the more expensive AIs out there and was priced on the hype of being 'better than formeron'. I don't want to open a bottle with a negative mindset just hoping it might work. For me the only thing that would put this to bed is seeing some bloodwork. We all know that scientific studies aren't the be all or end all on whether a product works. But if the science is dubious then real life hard data is called for anecdotal logs wont cut it
ucheoma, I apologize for offending. I was not implying that you are purposely trying to make other competitors happy or working for them. I simply meant that the doubt you now have is the purpose of some of the posts in this thread. Already people are trying to conclude that Letrone is worthless based on someone else's interpretation of a study and ignoring the contradictory evidence of a good supplement. I wish I could argue the data points but I don't understand them well enough yet. To discount the data or claim total understanding would be dishonest and I'm not that kind of person. I understand results best when I've used a product myself or I read unbiased feedback. I'm just trying to say that user results warrant giving this product a fair chance. This is a new supplement so it is not as well studied as other things, yet. The tone of the thread was getting very negative and I felt a BLR representative should highlight a few details that the average forum browser may not realize. Regardless, my apologies if you feel I was attacking you. Not my intent whatsoever.
 
Jebrook

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By everyone, do you mean people that already purchased the product believing it would work before the purchase?. Another thing, I haven't seen any personal attacks here yet. People are just discussing ingredients. They already purchased it, of course they want to believe it's gonna work. No one likes wasting money. I bet a lot more people are gonna post praise of a product that worked rather then report that a product didn't work for them on forum where that product is extremely popular for some reason or another....
Actually, I think people are equally likely to review a product for good or ill. If it's good I tell everybody. If it is worthless I tell that too just as fast perhaps even more. Granted, I am now a rep so my opinion can't be counted as unbiased just as the other reps' comments probably aren't. The positive comments by unbiased users have been largely ignored. There were some personal attacks, but I hope we're back to a constructive and educational thread.
 
mechka_grizli

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By everyone, do you mean people that already purchased the product believing it would work before the purchase?. Another thing, I haven't seen any personal attacks here yet. People are just discussing ingredients. They already purchased it, of course they want to believe it's gonna work. No one likes wasting money. I bet a lot more people are gonna post praise of a product that worked rather then report that a product didn't work for them on forum where that product is extremely popular for some reason or another....
I think we all buy products expecting and hoping it would work. Not only the science behind it but the feedback as well. Example being amentoflavone! The science says its bioavailability is terrible, but the anecdotal feedback on acute strength and mood were too prominent to ignore. So I bought a bottle of Amentomax hoping it would work. Guess what??? Works wonders

Saying a company will come out with more BS bloodwork and then accuse them of trying to just "make a killing off a cheap ingredient" sure sounds like an attack
 
vujade

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I've been a buyer a lot longer then I've been a rep.

Here's my 2 cents as a supplement buyer..

Whenever I've seen companies bash or try to negate the legitimacy of a competitors products, I usually lose respect for that company that is doing the bashing or negative talk. I do my own research and buy the product if I think it's going to work despite what the other company said. If I didn't do this I would have never used an OL product because I would have bought into the crap the CL was spewing against them a year ago. Instead I made an informed decision and can happily say I know they work.

I've been in sales and marketing for 25 years. You never win over customers by talking negativity about your competitors.

Only naive consumers fall for that kind of talk. Over the years I've had customers purchase very high dollar items from me, despite my competition talking negatively about me or my company. Smart consumers will usually see thru the BS and negativity that your competitors may talk about you. They usually do their own research and don't let the biased viewpoint of the person trying to sell them a competing product sway their decision.

Yes I am a BLR rep. I decided to become one because every product I've used has worked.

My comments should not be taken as a BLR Rep, but as a fellow consumer who can see thru the BS one company tries to discredit another's products.

Especially when those companies can financially gain by selling a similar product.

Innovators are always mocked , made fun of or discredited until people start copying them, then once something becomes the norm, it becomes excepted, and then and only then do the true innovators get praised or recognized as innovators.
 
storm 011

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I did some research because Alphamax sounds like what i'm looking for and then came across this point in another thread:

"12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)"

I'm new here so i cannot post links yet. The thread's title is "Gyno from Dermacrine/Alpha Mass HELP!" , post #13

Wouldn't forskolin be a problem when in a supplement that contains an AI? I mean what's the point of Arimistane when Forskolin could increase estrogen?

I was thinking i should get leaner (with some help from an AI) before starting my first PH cycle as i have a bit of fat on my chest and i was afraid of gyno during a cycle.

I may be completely wrong though.

The first who suggested that forskolin can aggravate gyno-symptoms through increased activity of aromatase caused by an increase in cAMP was Eric Potratz (CEO of Primordial Performance)
 

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To comment on basically all of the above posts, my own well being RE hormonal profile and overall health supersedes any rep role I play. I give no lip service. I rep for OL bc every product I've used from them has delivered and management / ownership is top notch. With that being said, I have no reason to talk trash about BLR or their products. I am using letrone, I am only several days in and notice NOTHING anecdotally at this point. I consider myself an honest consumer in all feedback I post. I support and use 'competitor companies' in a variety of supplement categories. The science coop posted against letrone speaks for itself. For the sake of science, I will stay the course in my 4 weeks of letrone and provide the bloodwork many are expecting despite the very REAL possibility my estrogen levels will take a hit because of it. I strive to provide nothing but real life info and I would never comment on something I don't have first hand, personal experience with. With that being said, I TRULY hope letrone delivers on its claims. If if doesn't, I am the one who will suffer the repercussions. For what it's worth, OL doesn't tout a pure AI product, so there is literally no competitive nature or implications to be derived from my feedback. I'm on clomid. This isn't a joke. I could easily bag the letrone and take adex, but I promised this community letrone+clomid bloodwork (before I became an OL rep) and I have an obligation to deliver unbiased feedback.
 
storm 011

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mechka_grizli : ***But I also notice that BLR got attacked on Follidrone and now epi is one of everyone's favorite ingredients. Longjack has been out for ever but we can't ignore that since Viron has come out, several top brands have released their own long jack product. There is a trend here.***

This is true. and you can not deny ...
 

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Just breezing through this on my phone so I haven't read everything, but I respect Coop and his comments. I can't speak to the science, but I am on TRT and get regular bloods, so always know what's up. Letrone works without question and is more effective than Formeron for me. I know my opinion on this doesn't mean anything because BLR bloods are "BS", but I couldn't really give a **** about the tired rep pile ons. I stand behind the product because of what I know it does for me.

And the science behind Arimistane is a joke. It does nothing for E2 control, and yet the same " facts" are continually posted about it. So it means little.

We'll see how long before other companies start copying this product. Probably won't be long based on history.
 

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Totally understood man. No hard feelings at all and appreciate your opinion. I am like yourself, not a scientist. I'm a very cautious consumer. I can appreciate Mrcooper's post a lot. Honestly I'll will have to re read the study many times to fully understand all the data and jargon. And I will. The thing is that all of these competitors are discounting us based upon their interpretation of the data off a study involving rats. If I had the means to conduct a bulletproof scientific study I would. Alas, very few scientific studies are perfect. I am simply saying that the results of Letrone are contradictory thus far to the data posted earlier. Contradicory enough that it's too early for other reps to be writing off Letrone. Arimistane had contradictory studies as well, but..let's not even go there. mw1, I apologize for my response being insulting. I will go back and edit it as you did yours to be more appropriate. I am simply standing up for the products I represent and providing another POV. All opinions are worthwhile when presented respectfully.
This, to me, is one of the reasons I stopped posting on the boards. Every time I tried to say anything, it always became about me being a company rep. Do I dislike BLR? No, I actually like the reps. Do I like brundel? No, I don't, for a variety of reasons. But BLR, like anyone else, is just a company with products. I like viron, formestane obviously works, their old fat burner was solid, I can go on. To insinuate it's personal is really unfair. The truth is:

1. The vast majority of my posts aren't "pimping" anything about PES. I post to share information. I work for PES because I love scientific discovery and using it to help people. It has absolutely nothing to do with posting on a forum to pimp away.



2. All the claims made about Letrone, EVERYTHING in the writeup, is based on IN VITRO DATA and just a tad of murine data. This is EVEN LESS applicable to humans then rat data, so the studies I'm posting are actually a major step up from what BLR cites in the writeup and on the forums. The AI stats were done in a test tube. Living models like rats are way more applicable than test tube studies. If rat data is no good, then all the claims about AI activity and boosting other hormones can go out the window. Can't be a hypocrite here, especially when rat data > BLR claims data.
 
yates84

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Subbed :)
 
jbryand101b

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You've always seemed like like a positive and open minded member. I'm surprised that you won't let the product speak for itself. We can all benefit from unbiased user feedback. I had hoped that despite being an OL Rep you could still do that. I have used products from every single company trashing us right now. I still do. Still will...if they work for me. As a consumer, I benefit from companies competing and fighting to bring the best products and making each other better as a result. I do not benefit as a consumer from companies trashing each others' reputations.

You should rephrase the statement as I've yet to say anything negative about blr or the products listed.
One reps opinion doesn't reflect the rest of the company or its reps feeling.
I haven't used any of the products listed by ol or whoever sells them. I've had no interest in even researching the ingredients and couldn't tell you what they are or do.
That doesn't mean ol or its reps don't love w/e ingredients are in those compounds.

I spend my time mostly in the anabolics sub forum. Letrone has caught my eye because it has been pimped there, so I have been reading on it.
The data on blr website has a lot of useless info for me, all I'm concerned about is aromatase inhibition, not digestion, etc.
 
mechka_grizli

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This, to me, is one of the reasons I stopped posting on the boards. Every time I tried to say anything, it always became about me being a company rep. Do I dislike BLR? No, I actually like the reps. Do I like brundel? No, I don't, for a variety of reasons. But BLR, like anyone else, is just a company with products. I like viron, formestane obviously works, their old fat burner was solid, I can go on. To insinuate it's personal is really unfair. The truth is:

1. The vast majority of my posts aren't "pimping" anything about PES. I post to share information. I work for PES because I love scientific discovery and using it to help people. It has absolutely nothing to do with posting on a forum to pimp away.



2. All the claims made about Letrone, EVERYTHING in the writeup, is based on IN VITRO DATA and just a tad of murine data. This is EVEN LESS applicable to humans then rat data, so the studies I'm posting are actually a major step up from what BLR cites in the writeup and on the forums. The AI stats were done in a test tube. Living models like rats are way more applicable than test tube studies. If rat data is no good, then all the claims about AI activity and boosting other hormones can go out the window. Can't be a hypocrite here, especially when rat data > BLR claims data.
This is hard for any rep coop. Once you become a rep for a company your statements will always be looked at as being bias. You bring a wealth of information and data to the boards. For the love of all that is AM, please don't stop posting lol
 
Jebrook

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This, to me, is one of the reasons I stopped posting on the boards. Every time I tried to say anything, it always became about me being a company rep. Do I dislike BLR? No, I actually like the reps. Do I like brundel? No, I don't, for a variety of reasons. But BLR, like anyone else, is just a company with products. I like viron, formestane obviously works, their old fat burner was solid, I can go on. To insinuate it's personal is really unfair. The truth is:

1. The vast majority of my posts aren't "pimping" anything about PES. I post to share information. I work for PES because I love scientific discovery and using it to help people. It has absolutely nothing to do with posting on a forum to pimp away.

2. Most people on this forum are reps. So the argument that this is a rep-on-rep thing is true...but has absolutely nothing to do with affiliation and everything to do with how this forum is set up. If we silenced all the reps, things would be dead here.

3. All the claims made about Letrone, EVERYTHING in the writeup, is based on IN VITRO DATA and just a tad of murine data. This is EVEN LESS applicable to humans then rat data, so the studies I'm posting are actually a major step up from what BLR cites in the writeup and on the forums. The AI stats were done in a test tube. Living models like rats are way more applicable than test tube studies. If rat data is no good, then all the claims about AI activity and boosting other hormones can go out the window. Can't be a hypocrite here, especially when rat data > BLR claims data.
mr.cooper69 I'm glad that you posted the study. It has me very interested in learning more. It did become a bit of a one sided bashing you must admit. I don't believe that was your purpose. I did recognize the validity of your post more than once. Please believe, I will be dissecting the study and your post until I have a better understanding.
Personal attacks against BLR came later from others, so much so that forum members were calling for a BLR voice to respond. Otherwise, I would have ignored this and continued with the holiday weekend. Thanks for sharing the study though. I was never offended by your posts. The personal attacks came from other parties. Some were edited or deleted. Please continue to share.:)
 

Bry17

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You should rephrase the statement as I've yet to say anything negative about blr or the products listed.
One reps opinion doesn't reflect the rest of the company or its reps feeling.
I haven't used any of the products listed by ol or whoever sells them. I've had no interest in even researching the ingredients and couldn't tell you what they are or do.
That doesn't mean ol or its reps don't love w/e ingredients are in those compounds.

I spend my time mostly in the anabolics sub forum. Letrone has caught my eye because it has been pimped there, so I have been reading on it.
The data on blr website has a lot of useless info for me, all I'm concerned about is aromatase inhibition, not digestion, etc.
 
Otheridstaken

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Would the post hoc propter hoc argument apply here? Just because a product reduces high E symptoms, does it necessarily mean it reduces E?
 
Admin

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These are the kind of posts that honestly irritate me. Everyone here, including myself was a member here before anything. Before the companies were here, before the actual idea of a rep was here, before anything, I was a member. And with the growth this place has seen it brought other members...which in turn learned and became assets to the forum. People came here because of the community. They came for answers, or just pure discussion and they got it. These same people were also customers. They built a lot of these companies from the grass roots of AM. They are in direct comminication with the end user. Almost 99% of the people here, before they were reps were members....learning..discussing..trying to achieve their goals. Whether they took a rep position or not, the fact they came here for knowledge should be acknowledged. Do some reps go overboard? Hell yeah...and I'm up for almost anything to create a place where its not constant pimping but to dismiss information becuase they have a company tag is ridiculous. If your opinion and loyalty is bought and sold for a couple of products per month, then you have other issues going on that I or anyone here can't fix.

You can't build and promote your company by having an army of reps years ago then complain when someone else tries to do the same. I'm open to all suggestions including capping the number per company.
 
NoAddedHmones

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mr.cooper69 I'm glad that you posted the study. It has me very interested in learning more. It did become a bit of a one sided bashing you must admit. I don't believe that was your purpose. I did recognize the validity of your post more than once. Please believe, I will be dissecting the study and your post until I have a better understanding.
Personal attacks against BLR came later from others, so much so that forum members were calling for a BLR voice to respond. Otherwise, I would have ignored this and continued with the holiday weekend. Thanks for sharing the study though. I was never offended by your posts. The personal attacks came from other parties. Some were edited or deleted. Please continue to share.:)
.....
 
Joedoubledose

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This is hard for any rep coop. Once you become a rep for a company your statements will always be looked at as being bias. You bring a wealth of information and data to the boards. For the love of all that is AM, please don't stop posting lol
I appreciate your info coop , and as being an open minded consumer before being a rep i think we all want people like you who give us peace of mind . We all deserve to know what is what and if it's good or bad . It's our health and it's our money . Keep posting , because I see nothing personal here , just the science being laid out for individuals to interpret and decide for themselves ...
 
T-Bone

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mechka_grizli : ***But I also notice that BLR got attacked on Follidrone and now epi is one of everyone's favorite ingredients. Longjack has been out for ever but we can't ignore that since Viron has come out, several top brands have released their own long jack product. There is a trend here.***

This is true. and you can not deny ...
Like you said though, long jack has been around for years. It's not because of viron that it's popular. Not at all. Plus I don't know about -epi being everyones favorite. Sure it's popular with a select few. I still don't believe it does anything ergogenic directly though it's a healthy anti-oxidant.
 

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Like you said though, long jack has been around for years. It's not because of viron that it's popular. Not at all. Plus I don't know about -epi being everyones favorite. Sure it's popular with a select few. I still don't believe it does anything ergogenic directly though it's a healthy anti-oxidant.
Let's just stop with that. Yes, lj has been around forever, but Viron has this forum talking about it and bringing awareness to it. Not surprisingly, other companies came out with a version shortly after. Nothing wrong with that, and its healthy, but it needs to be mentioned.
 
T-Bone

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Let's just stop with that. Yes, lj has been around forever, but Viron has this forum talking about it and bringing awareness to it. Not surprisingly, other companies came out with a version shortly after. Nothing wrong with that, and its healthy, but it needs to be mentioned.
Yes. I do agree Viron brought more popularity to LJ.
 

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mod edit: i'm tired of the rep bashing. stop it now.
 
mw1

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Let's just stop with that. Yes, lj has been around forever, but Viron has this forum talking about it and bringing awareness to it. Not surprisingly, other companies came out with a version shortly after. Nothing wrong with that, and its healthy, but it needs to be mentioned.
Google the ingredients and you will see 100s of products that have used it for many years...BLR just hyped it up more;)
 

kisaj

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This is a conversation any several topics, so quit trying to start a fight here. I am a rep and I have experience with a product that works. You want background information and studies from the product, discuss it with the owner. We get nothing free and our interest is only as deep as helping others be aware of the products. I buy them because they work, and I also support other companies on here.
 

kisaj

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Google the ingredients and you will see 100s of products that have used it for many years...BLR just hyped it up more;)
Regardless, it was because of BLR that people here talk about it more. Look, I know you don't like BLR, Brundel, and possibly me, but there is no denying the fact.

And I've taken it for many years before BLR came out with the product, so I'm keenly aware of it.
 
mechka_grizli

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Google the ingredients and you will see 100s of products that have used it for many years...BLR just hyped it up more;)
I made the initial statement about Viron, and again you can't deny how many big companies came out with their own version after it was released.
 
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