I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[AndrewMcD]

Nobody talks about Olympus Labs Vital1ty. It contains PA as well.

It actually contains "Soybean-derived Phosphatidylserine"...completely different.

 

[Danes]

I will send BPI a message tomorrow and ask for Activator

 

[muscleupcrohn]

It actually contains "Soybean-derived Phosphatidylserine"...completely different.

This. PS is a useful supplement, but it's different than PA.

 

[digitalducki]

Oops!

 

[TheIronAsylum]

either way im excited to try this stuff for the first time i ended up getting a decent ammount of king may just take king by itself or add like a little of swanson or something soy letchin to have full amount

right now im taking clear muscle and want to finish a couple more weeks of this by itself before adding it in

im actually liking the clear muscle quite a bit as i do very high volume so far feeling a little more fullness recovery is good just keep pumping away

how does PA or king compare to Clear muscle

 

[cumminslifter]

either way im excited to try this stuff for the first time i ended up getting a decent ammount of king may just take king by itself or add like a little of swanson or something soy letchin to have full amount

right now im taking clear muscle and want to finish a couple more weeks of this by itself before adding it in

im actually liking the clear muscle quite a bit as i do very high volume so far feeling a little more fullness recovery is good just keep pumping away

how does PA or king compare to Clear muscle

how does a lambo compare to a kenmore?

 

[TheFugitive]

I will send BPI a message tomorrow and ask for Activator

I'll be waiting for your message

 

[TheFugitive]

either way im excited to try this stuff for the first time i ended up getting a decent ammount of king may just take king by itself or add like a little of swanson or something soy letchin to have full amount

right now im taking clear muscle and want to finish a couple more weeks of this by itself before adding it in

im actually liking the clear muscle quite a bit as i do very high volume so far feeling a little more fullness recovery is good just keep pumping away

how does PA or king compare to Clear muscle

I think your gonna love King. Keep me updated on your thoughts

 

[Danes]

I'll be waiting for your message

That means I dont need to write.
No answer will be given anyway

 

[NewAgeMayan]

That means I dont need to write.
No answer will be given anyway

He's just messing with ya.

Maybe email JC (Jay Cutler), Im sure he knows whats up with his own products.

 

[BeardedBreast]

Joined because of this thread. Plan on making this place my home.

I'm on my second week of SL and King, as forms of PA.

I'm doing the 750mg from King + 1.2g from SL (Fearn)

King 2caps pre (0530), 1 post (0700) and SL 1tbsp 1400 & 1900

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Keep us posted on your thoughts.

 

[kdubson14]

6 months @ 5 tbsp preWO. Still as effective as week 1-2.

 

[BeardedBreast]

6 months @ 5 tbsp preWO. Still as effective as week 1-2.

Very glad to hear that! Fearn?

 

[kdubson14]

Very glad to hear that! Fearn?

Yessir.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

nice sounds like yal are getting good results bearded are you just taking the 2 caps of king pre nothing else?

 

[BeardedBreast]

Then one at the end of my post workout shake

 

[TheFugitive]

Joined because of this thread. Plan on making this place my home.

I'm on my second week of SL and King, as forms of PA.

I'm doing the 750mg from King + 1.2g from SL (Fearn)

King 2caps pre (0530), 1 post (0700) and SL 1tbsp 1400 & 1900

Are you noticing any stomach discomfort with this stack

 

[BeardedBreast]

I spent five years living in Asia. I can do leg day with dysentery

 

[Danes]

6 months @ 5 tbsp preWO. Still as effective as week 1-2.

Longer period you activate mTOR=even better results

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If anyone's interested, after contacting many suppliers/sellers of soy lecithin, I've found a source that sells non-GMO lecithin powder (they don't currently sell granules, but I actually prefer to grind up the granules anyway as powder mixes faster and better than the granules) with a minimum of 97% phosphatides (tied for the highest amount I've seen), and a reported typical value of 8% PA (and the same exact typical values for PA, PC, PE, and PI as Fearn lecithin granules have) for $4.79 per pound. That's $2.60 cheaper per pound (more than $0.21 cheaper per day if you're running 5tbsp) than the cheapest I've found the Fearn granules, and this is a powder, which I'd assume could potentially have less stomach upset issues for those who just drink them down and don't wait for the granules to dissolve. It's also by far the cheapest non-GMO soy lecithin I've found; much cheaper than Optima (and I'm skeptical that Optima has >12% PA, I'm going to say it's really the same as Fearn and this new company, considering all 3 are standardized for a minimum of 97% according to information I received from them). The only issue here is that there's a minimum quantity of 100kg, which is a hair over $1,000. If you get 7 people to split the bill, you can have over a year's worth (380 days) of PA (at 5tbsp per day) for $150 each. That's a massive 3g dose of PA per day for less than $0.40 per day. If you're going to run the minimum of 750mg PA per day, just get 29 people to split it, and you get a year (actually 367 days) of PA for less than $37, or $0.10 per day.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

damn thats a great /day cost...however im a bit dubious of powder myself, though perhaps unfairly, due to my experience with the sunflower lecithin powder, it was frickin horrible to eat

 

[muscleupcrohn]

damn thats a great /day cost...however im a bit dubious of powder myself, though perhaps unfairly, due to my experience with the sunflower lecithin powder, it was frickin horrible to eat

I don't know. I've taken the Fearn granules and put them in a NutriBullet to grind them into a powder, and it was fine. Basically, all it did was speed up the rate at which it dissolved in water, which would make sense. Other than that, it was no different. Perhaps I'll request a sample of this powder to see how it compares. I'm sure that a company with a 4-figure minimum can give a little sample to potential customers. I wouldn't eat the powder dry though, that sounds terrible. 2tbsp of the powder I made mixed with 1 scoop of Ergonine actually tasted good.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

yeah lol i was dry eating it...palatability may depend also on how fine the powder is, the sunfower powder was pretty fine (though not quite as light as a flour), for some reason i imagine the soy stuff being a tad more dense

 

[muscleupcrohn]

yeah lol i was dry eating it...palatability may depend also on how fine the powder is, the sunfower powder was pretty fine (though not quite as light as a flour), for some reason i imagine the soy stuff being a tad more dense

The sheet they provided me with says that it's 60 mesh. It's actually not bad at all mixed with a flavored pre-workout. I'll have to try it with others, but the powder, when immediately dumped into a drink, is basically as dissolved as the granules are after a few minutes.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

The sheet they provided me with says that it's 60 mesh. It's actually not bad at all mixed with a flavored pre-workout. I'll have to try it with others, but the powder, when immediately dumped into a drink, is basically as dissolved as the granules are after a few minutes.

have you tried dissolving the granules with something like high volume? im guessing the same principle/effects will apply

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Here's some more info on soy lecithin and phospholipids:

Here's what the typical values are for both Fearn and this new company I mentioned earlier:

PC 23% min 21%
PI 14%
PE 20%
PA 8%

I found a book that listed the "typical composition of a commericially deoiled soybean lecithin" as follows:
PC 24%
PI 14%
PE 22%
PA 7%

That matches up very well with the typical values in Fearn.

Another source lists the following:

PC 33%
PI 16.8%
PE 14.1%
PA 6.4%

Combine that with the Chinese paper I mentioned earlier which found the intermediate ranges to be:
PC 29-39%
PI 13-17.5%
PE 20-26.3%
PA 5-9%

and I think it's safe to assume that you're getting around 8% PA (perhaps closer to 7%) with these lecithin granules. I'll have to compare these numbers to Optima's, but I don't see how Optima is going to have 12% when everything else seems to be between 5-9%, and Optima's COA actually lists 4-7% as the accepted range.

I'd probably calculate my PA dose with 7% if you're using something like Fearn or Optima

 

[muscleupcrohn]

have you tried dissolving the granules with something like high volume? im guessing the same principle/effects will apply

I'll try it tomorrow.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

all good stuff^^^

im assuming every supp with pa in it is gmo

 

[muscleupcrohn]

all good stuff^^^

im assuming every supp with pa in it is gmo

Probably. When it comes to soy products, if it doesn't specify non-GMO, I assume that it is GMO.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Hey MUC, thanks for doing the leg work! You want to post the company deets? I could see groups of local guys banding together to purchase. If not, can you PM me?

 

[cumminslifter]

whats the big deal with GMO SL?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

whats the big deal with GMO SL?

Not necessarily anything. I just know that a lot of people like to avoid GMO products. If there is no difference in price, I'd also prefer non-GMO. I'm just not going to pay a premium for it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Hey MUC, thanks for doing the leg work! You want to post the company deets? I could see groups of local guys banding together to purchase. If not, can you PM me?

No problem.

I can't post up links, but the company is Global River Food Ingredients. (Just type that in to Google, and it should be the first website).
They sent me a product specifications sheet. If you want the same, either email them, or PM me and I'll send it to you. As of now, the sheet says that it's minimum of 97% phosphatides, and that there's typically 8% PA (same specs as Fearn), but I haven't seen a COA with the amount of PA listed. I don't know if they routinely test for this, but I don't really think it matters, considering that the only standardization is for phosphatdes, and that there is a range of PA anyway (and I'd say that 7-8% PA is a fair and realistic amount to expect, regardless of what it's stated as).

I also think I'll request a sample of the powder. $1,000 is a decent order, so I think that hopefully they'd send a sample if we're interested in buying it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

have you tried dissolving the granules with something like high volume? im guessing the same principle/effects will apply

I'm about to mix some of the granule powder (ground Fearn granules) with some Paradise Cooler High Volume. 2 scoops High Volume and 1.5g PA (2.5 tbsp, or, since it's now a powder, 18.75 g). I'll mix it in 8-10 oz water.

Taste review and pictures coming soon.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'm about to mix some of the granule powder (ground Fearn granules) with some Paradise Cooler High Volume. 2 scoops High Volume and 1.5g PA (2.5 tbsp, or, since it's now a powder, 18.75 g). I'll mix it in 8-10 oz water.

Taste review and pictures coming soon.

Quoting myself feels strange...

Anyway, I just mixed the 2 scoops of Paradise Cooler High Volume with 18.75g Fearn lecithin (powder) in 8 oz water. I added the lecithin first, although I'm wondering if I should have added High Volume first, but I'll do that next time. I'll upload some pics of the drink later, but it mixed pretty well. For the most part, there were just little "flakes" of the granules, although there were a few bigger flakes sitting on the top of the drink. This old batch of High Volume doesn't always mix the best to begin with, so maybe that's something to consider, as it seems that it mixed better with Ergonine. As for the taste, it wasn't quite as good as High Volume is in isolation, but it was still pretty good. The texture wasn't too adversely affected, it was just a little thicker; I wouldn't say that it was "oily" like the granules are mixed alone in water. As for the aftertaste, it's been about 5 minutes and all I taste is a bit of the High Volume flavor; I didn't notice any granule aftertaste. I'd say it's certainly preferable to drinking 2 separate drinks (1 for the granules and 1 for a pre-workout), since I don't have to drink too much water. I don't feel bloated like I would if I drank 2 glasses of water before working out. I'd also say that the powder is better than the granules for this application, as they dissolve faster, and really don't need to be dissolved at all IMO if being taken with a pre-workout, since they are, at worst, little flakes instead of large granules immediately after being poured in water.

 

[LDubs]

In for the knowledge gains

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Quoting myself feels strange...

Anyway, I just mixed the 2 scoops of Paradise Cooler High Volume with 18.75g Fearn lecithin (powder) in 8 oz water. I added the lecithin first, although I'm wondering if I should have added High Volume first, but I'll do that next time. I'll upload some pics of the drink later, but it mixed pretty well. For the most part, there were just little "flakes" of the granules, although there were a few bigger flakes sitting on the top of the drink. This old batch of High Volume doesn't always mix the best to begin with, so maybe that's something to consider, as it seems that it mixed better with Ergonine. As for the taste, it wasn't quite as good as High Volume is in isolation, but it was still pretty good. The texture wasn't too adversely affected, it was just a little thicker; I wouldn't say that it was "oily" like the granules are mixed alone in water. As for the aftertaste, it's been about 5 minutes and all I taste is a bit of the High Volume flavor; I didn't notice any granule aftertaste. I'd say it's certainly preferable to drinking 2 separate drinks (1 for the granules and 1 for a pre-workout), since I don't have to drink too much water. I don't feel bloated like I would if I drank 2 glasses of water before working out. I'd also say that the powder is better than the granules for this application, as they dissolve faster, and really don't need to be dissolved at all IMO if being taken with a pre-workout, since they are, at worst, little flakes instead of large granules immediately after being poured in water.

Cool.

At the risk of overthinking this...

Ive read that, due to the nitrate component, its 'best' to have HV up to 60mins prewo. Would dosing the soyl granules in the HV significantly 'slow down' the respose to the nitrate ingredients? I like the idea/sound of dosing both together as you describe, at least enough to try it for myself, but my concern would be that the lecithin somehow temporally 'impedes' the desired effects of the HV (not blunts them completely, just delays or slows them?)

 

[kbayne]

Cool.

At the risk of overthinking this...

Ive read that, due to the nitrate component, its 'best' to have HV up to 60mins prewo. Would dosing the soyl granules in the HV significantly 'slow down' the respose to the nitrate ingredients? I like the idea/sound of dosing both together as you describe, at least enough to try it for myself, but my concern would be that the lecithin somehow temporally 'impedes' the desired effects of the HV (not blunts them completely, just delays or slows them?)

I have dosed High Volume with SL 60 minutes pre-workout, 45 minutes pre-workout, and 30 minutes pre-workout and never noticed a difference in High Volumes effectiveness when talking about pumps and performance in the gym. I tend to dose about 45 minutes pre-workout for the most part.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I have dosed High Volume with SL 60 minutes pre-workout, 45 minutes pre-workout, and 30 minutes pre-workout and never noticed a difference in High Volumes effectiveness when talking about pumps and performance in the gym. I tend to dose about 45 minutes pre-workout for the most part.

Same here. I've never noticed a difference. In fact, I got a better pump than normal during today's back workout, probably due to having 1.5g PA instead of the 750mg I've been having recently.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I have dosed High Volume with SL 60 minutes pre-workout, 45 minutes pre-workout, and 30 minutes pre-workout and never noticed a difference in High Volumes effectiveness when talking about pumps and performance in the gym. I tend to dose about 45 minutes pre-workout for the most part.

All good. I recall the topic of timing coming up elsewhere (Nyrin?) and Synapsin seemed to agree that the longer 60min window was more preferrable.

Same here. I've never noticed a difference. In fact, I got a better pump than normal during today's back workout, probably due to having 1.5g PA instead of the 750mg I've been having recently.

Ive never noticed a difference myself either (when dosing IFN's kno3 caps).

 

[kbayne]

All good. I recall the topic of timing coming up elsewhere (Nyrin?) and Synapsin seemed to agree that the longer 60min window was more preferrable.

In regards to nitrates, yes.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

so dosing the pa should i take the pa say 45 to 30 min before workout and then a preworkout 15 min or something like that

 

[cumminslifter]

just picked up some piping rock brand SL. Only min of 95% but cheapest i have ever seen

 

[kbayne]

so dosing the pa should i take the pa say 45 to 30 min before workout and then a preworkout 15 min or something like that

That works.

People are starting to micro manage things. Just get the supplements in and go smash the weights.

 

[tyga tyga]

Anyone else feeling like a King today

Yes... But not off king.

 

[Danes]

Yes... But not off king.

You will soon see lab test of KING v2.
Contacted couple of Labs and now I am waiting.

Those labs are one of better ones so it will be fun

 

[NewAgeMayan]

You will soon see lab test of KING v2.
Contacted couple of Labs and now I am waiting.

Those labs are one of better ones so it will be fun

Inb4 the caps are like the Tardis and contain 750mg+ of PA and 250mg+ of Niagen.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

You will soon see lab test of KING v2.
Contacted couple of Labs and now I am waiting.

Those labs are one of better ones so it will be fun

**** im gonna be real pissed if they are schit and i have 6 tubs

 

[NewAgeMayan]

**** im gonna be real pissed if they are schit and i have 6 tubs

Just out of curiosity, what kind of ingredient quantities would you consider getting too low (obvious extremes aside)