DAA found useless in bodybuilders

horizons

horizons

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Very doubtful to increase enough test to get any anabolic/androgenic effects anyways
 
Ergo Log said:
This is the question the researchers tried to answer by doing a 28-day long experiment with 20 recreational bodybuilders whose average age was 22.
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I wouldn't say useless. Personally I don't know why 20 somethings would ever need a boost in testosterone, maybe during PCT. I think people in that age group have plenty of natural testosterone and don't need AAS anyway. Study doesn't prove anything not already blatantly obvious. If you already have plenty of natural testosterone surging through your body, OTC test boosters won't do much of anything.
 
Major difference in LH, which typically is a good thing for T production.


More LH = More T.

Wish they would've tested E levels too, wondering if a significant amount of T would be aromatized to E with the increase in LH (to maintain balance)

Because, if that's the case, DAA + AI = win.
 
jimbuick said:
Major difference in LH, which typically is a good thing for T production.


More LH = More T.

Wish they would've tested E levels too, wondering if a significant amount of T would be aromatized to E with the increase in LH (to maintain balance)

Because, if that's the case, DAA + AI = win.
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Still won't increase it enough to have any real physical appearance changes IMO
 
horizons said:
Still won't increase it enough to have any real physical appearance changes IMO
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I don't think anyone ever said it would.


No natural hormone modulators will affect physique in any way IMO (except for water loss from AIs). The most would be mood/attitude changes, or libido boosts.

But, most people typically use these products in PCT and that kind of effect on LH is exactly what one would want during a PCT.
 
Might depend on the age group and ambient test levels prior to supplementation.Once you get into your 40's a T boost is a T boost, lol.
 
i've said for awhile that daa never gave gym results...no strength, body comp or aggression in the gym

however if you can guarantee an increase in test during post cycle therapy with using daa, the price is cheap enough...so why not throw it in a post cycle therapy, i've also found that daa mixed with your favorite test booster is the way to really get results

it's been awhile since i listened but i believe on muscle college radio that Ben Escro also said the DAA hype has gone too far
 
Like I said before, you young guys aren't gonna notice much from OTC test boosters. Just because it "doesn't work" for a certain age group doesn't mean it "doesn't work" at all. That's just ridiculous.
 
USPlabsRep said:
How do you know that? What is enough?
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That's true

I'm very sceptical

Oh I put on 4 kilos while on DAA but my diet was in check. It's probably 99% diet and 1% DAA

I would like to see some better studies than what I posted though. I think anything like DAA in pct is helpful. Doesn't mean sh** though
 
When I take DAA I feel good in the gym.
That might mean I lift harder.
All I care about are the gains. More gains=more muscle.
 
Don't know why, but I feel like there will be a slow shift towards the opinion many of us have been flamed on over the years by calling out DAA. It was like calling someone's kid ugly. lol
 
kisaj said:
Don't know why, but I feel like there will be a slow shift towards the opinion many of us have been flamed on over the years by calling out DAA. It was like calling someone's kid ugly. lol
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Some people just have ugly kids.

As to DAA, I understand that it is now recognized as having the greatest benefits to the older contingent, following natural T decline.

For that reason, I will be using it in December - just to see fro myself.
 
Might be most useful in cases of reduced HPTA output. Perhaps in PCT with a combination of other things. Solo in a non HPTA affected state wouldn't be my first choice.
 
Beau said:
Some people just have ugly kids.

As to DAA, I understand that it is now recognized as having the greatest benefits to the older contingent, following natural T decline.

For that reason, I will be using it in December - just to see fro myself.
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It is generally in the over 35, forums for those seeking TRT, and the >30 folks that are seeing that it really doesn't work all that well. In fact, many of us have found that it lowers test and increases e2. I think everyone needs to determine what works best for them when it comes to non script supplements, but in my opinion, DAA is worthless.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
that increase in LH should have resulted in a much more profound increase in testosterone
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How much more would you guess?


I figured it should, not sure why it wouldn't have in the study.


Don't have full text, but didn't this also use regular DAA as opposed to Na-DAA as well? How much difference do you think that would make?
 
jimbuick said:
How much more would you guess?


I figured it should, not sure why it wouldn't have in the study.


Don't have full text, but didn't this also use regular DAA as opposed to Na-DAA as well? How much difference do you think that would make?
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All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
 
I thought the general consensus was that test boosters in general were just fancy mood/libido enhancers with limited ability to help people with low test(Older people) build muscle. I've taken DAA before and enjoyed it, but had no impact on gains.
 
What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
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the italian study was three months but they only tested testosterone for 12 days

there is a 12 day study
 
mr.cooper69 said:
All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
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one of the reasons they concluded that was the blood levels of DAA not being very elevated at 30 days

However they didnt do any earlier blood draws to compare against. the study design was flawed in that respect
 
kisaj said:
What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
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i'm not a huge fan of DAA as a standalone but it does increase libido a bit and could give a sense of well being....but nothing really that translates into the gym
 
kisaj said:
What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
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People like it because of the mood lift and mild energy boost it gives
 
I think its funny how people just ignore coops and arnolds posts on the matter. Also if you read the article they were using free form DAA and not sodium or the chelated version. Wouldn't that make a huge difference or am I crazy for thinking that?!!!?!!!!
 
My dad who is in his 50s has been using DAA and erase for three month stretches and over the past year has lost 20+ lbs, and received a lot of strength and muscle gains. Granted he does manual labor and is in the gym 4 days a week with a solid diet but that simple addition has helped him immensely and with out TRT which his doc wont prescribe to him.
 
I like it because of the increased libido, mood, faster strength gains, and faster muscle gains. It also allows me to keep my strength while I cut calories. It's night and day as far as strength gains go, between being off it and being on it. I really don't consider myself a bodybuilder, but it's definitely not useless to me.
 
T-Bone said:
I like it because of the increased libido, mood, faster strength gains, and faster muscle gains. It also allows me to keep my strength while I cut calories. It's night and day as far as strength gains go, between being off it and being on it.
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My dad says there is a night and day difference in the month of two that he takes off. Mr. Arnold may have an answer to this would it be ok to stay on DAA and erase year round for a guy in his 50s or would there be adverse effects?
 
gmanall said:
I thought the general consensus was that test boosters in general were just fancy mood/libido enhancers with limited ability to help people with low test(Older people) build muscle. I've taken DAA before and enjoyed it, but had no impact on gains.
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Shouldn't have too much to do with body building then?
 
McCrew530 said:
My dad says there is a night and day difference in the month of two that he takes off. Mr. Arnold may have an answer to this would it be ok to stay on DAA and erase year round for a guy in his 50s or would there be adverse effects?
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Might be suitable for long use for older people?
 
kisaj said:
It is generally in the over 35, forums for those seeking TRT, and the >30 folks that are seeing that it really doesn't work all that well. In fact, many of us have found that it lowers test and increases e2. I think everyone needs to determine what works best for them when it comes to non script supplements, but in my opinion, DAA is worthless.
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Wow, I am 46 and love DAA - it allows me to lift like I was 25 - I would not have 1/2 the muscle I have right now without it. I seem to get lasting gains (small, but still gains) each cycle. Just MOP.
 
bakerwil said:
Wow, I am 46 and love DAA - it allows me to lift like I was 25 - I would not have 1/2 the muscle I have right now without it. I seem to get lasting gains (small, but still gains) each cycle. Just MOP.
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41 here and I agree. Like I said in my previous post, it's like night day, the difference in gains between when I cycle on DAA and when I'm off of it.
 
horizons said:
Shouldn't have too much to do with body building then?
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Well it's ingrained in bodybuilding because it raises test, and laymen like to think that fluctuations within normal ranges will have have "steroid" like results. Might be useful to older males and is cheap enough to test out, in fact I bought a tub for my dad to test out. I used it a couple times, felt enough difference in mood to justify the cost every now and then. If younger people see gains from it I'd chalk it up to placebo, but if using it makes them feel they can add a little more weight to their lifts more power to them.
 
T-Bone said:
41 here and I agree. Like I said in my previous post, it's like night day, the difference in gains between when I cycle on DAA and when I'm off of it.
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Do You use it with an AI?
 
McCrew530 said:
Do You use it with an AI?
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Depends what product I use. Lately I've been cycling on and off Test Powder. So in that case, yes. I've used PP TCF-1, TestForce 2, a few others I can't recall the names of. I first used the nutraplanet bulk powder when it was first introduced, loved daa ever since. I think it was 2010. With bulk stuff I never added anything to it.
 
JD261985 said:
I think its funny how people just ignore coops and arnolds posts on the matter. Also if you read the article they were using free form DAA and not sodium or the chelated version. Wouldn't that make a huge difference or am I crazy for thinking that?!!!?!!!!
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Its possible
 
T-Bone said:
Depends what product I use. Lately I've been cycling on and off Test Powder. So in that case, yes. I've used PP TCF-1, TestForce 2, a few others I can't recall the names of. I first used the nutraplanet bulk powder when it was first introduced, loved daa ever since. I think it was 2010. With bulk stuff I never added anything to it.
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Have your results varied much by product, or all the all "about the same"?
 
I've had a tub of All Max DAA for a couple months now. Since that study came out, I've been shying away from using it. But even if all I get is a placebo, meh I'll take it.. It was free anyway. Guess there's nothing to lose giving it a go.
 
Beau said:
Have your results varied much by product, or all the all "about the same"?
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I've been cycling it on and off since it first hit the market so it's hard to compare. It's one of the few products I consistently purchase. I really like Test Powder though because of all the extras that come with it. With the single ingredient products, I have not noticed much of difference though.
 
McCrew530 said:
Do You use it with an AI?
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Not answer on T-bones behalf, but I am 46 and 3 weeks into DAA and not using an AI yet. My strength is over the top and very similar to about 5 caps ARA (not 8 caps, but 5). I will be adding erase OG starting week 5 through 8 and don't expect any further strength gains (as I have never got any gains in the past using this method), but a nice drying out effect. I guess DAA is just not effective until your an old guy, cause it and ARA is the fountain of youth for us old guys...
 
T-Bone said:
It's night and day [.......] between being off it and being on it.
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This is how I feel about DAA and why I'm staying away.

I don't feel like I go from a baseline 100 up to 120 during cycle then back down to 100 when cycling off....I really feel like I go from 100 to 120 then down to 75 for several weeks after a 50 day run. Other test boosters make me feel great but I don't get this withdrawal effect afterward.

I've often wondered if this is actually a sign that DAA is the only thing I've used that actually worked, and the other products are mostly placebo.
 
mcc23 said:
Sure would like some more feedback on others' experiences w/ DAA
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I'm a fan personally. The two I've had success with were Synthetic Supplements version before they discontinued it and D-Pol from Purus Labs. I tend to notice more of the physiological changes associated with it than I do with NMDA. I've used Paragon and Intimidate and not noticed the same. Could be pure placebo but that's my anecdote. I would run it with an AI and L-dopa, IE Erase and Dopadex and you have a great stack.
 
dtrain13 said:
I'm a fan personally. The two I've had success with were Synthetic Supplements version before they discontinued it and D-Pol from Purus Labs. I tend to notice more of the physiological changes associated with it than I do with NMDA. I've used Paragon and Intimidate and not noticed the same. Could be pure placebo but that's my anecdote. I would run it with an AI and L-dopa, IE Erase and Dopadex and you have a great stack.
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Paragon actually killed my libido. That's the only thing I noticed from it over an 8 week cycle. I have a hard time believing in the products that claim, "100 times stronger than DAA". There is even one company claiming, "1000 times stronger than DAA". It just reminds me of all the "newer" forms of creatine, when monohydrate is the proven leader with years of research proving its effectiveness IN HUMANS.
 
I'm only 24, but I used DAA in the summer with Erase.

I had just broken up with this chick at the time and my life was a wreck. My diet sucked. I was hovering at 23% bf and used the stack as a motivational boost to get me back in the gym.

I noticed some strength gains -this could've been just muscle memory coming back and errrr overall mood.

I think for us younger folk DAA could just be a light nootropic.
 
Lutztenways said:
This is how I feel about DAA and why I'm staying away.

I don't feel like I go from a baseline 100 up to 120 during cycle then back down to 100 when cycling off....I really feel like I go from 100 to 120 then down to 75 for several weeks after a 50 day run. Other test boosters make me feel great but I don't get this withdrawal effect afterward.

I've often wondered if this is actually a sign that DAA is the only thing I've used that actually worked, and the other products are mostly placebo.
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DAA persists in the system for 1-2 weeks after ceasing use, so you should actually note no change when you stop using it, at least at the beginning
 
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