reduce xt ingredients

[John Smeton]

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[TD]7-alpha-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone[/TD]
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[TD] 7-beta-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone

thinking of trying these two

how are these different from 7-keto-dhea?

I know what 7 keto dhea 300 mgs treats me well. Would I need 300 mgs of this stuff since its only 50 mgs a capsule or is this stuff more potent than 7-keto dhea?

I have to give credit where credit is due I did my first transdermal of protcolnutritions 7 -spray for a month in pct and that is by far my favorite cortisol product to date. I have tried lean xtreme as well so i am guessing this will the same?

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[mw1]

[TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
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[TD]7-alpha-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]**[/TD]
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[TD] 7-beta-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone

thinking of trying these two

how are these different from 7-keto-dhea?

I know what 7 keto dhea 300 mgs treats me well. Would I need 300 mgs of this stuff since its only 50 mgs a capsule or is this stuff more potent than 7-keto dhea?

I have to give credit where credit is due I did my first transdermal of protcolnutritions 7 -spray for a month in pct and that is by far my favorite cortisol product to date. I have tried lean xtreme as well so i am guessing this will the same?

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Reduce xt is the same as the OG Lean xtreme. I suggest dosing at 3 caps per day(150 mgs)
Do you have any issues with sore joints from lowering cortisol levels?

 

[John Smeton]

Reduce xt is the same as the OG Lean xtreme. I suggest dosing at 3 caps per day(150 mgs)
Do you have any issues with sore joints from lowering cortisol levels?

that whole cortisol and sore joints is a myth and totally incorrect. In fact these ingredients help with your joints

 

[mw1]

that whole cortisol and sore joints is a myth and totally incorrect. In fact these ingredients help with your joints

Huh? Then you havent used a truly "effective" cortisol product because a (sudden) drop in cortisol levels will cause sore joints

 

[bpmartyr]

I like 2 caps in the AM, one at mid day and one before bed. Very effective.

 

[MAxximal]

[TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]7-alpha-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]**[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 7-beta-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone

thinking of trying these two

how are these different from 7-keto-dhea?

I know what 7 keto dhea 300 mgs treats me well. Would I need 300 mgs of this stuff since its only 50 mgs a capsule or is this stuff more potent than 7-keto dhea?

I have to give credit where credit is due I did my first transdermal of protcolnutritions 7 -spray for a month in pct and that is by far my favorite cortisol product to date. I have tried lean xtreme as well so i am guessing this will the same?[/TD]
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[/TABLE]

7-oxo is the precursor to 7-OH so this up a step in the conversion and require a smaller dose.
plus Cissus Quadrangularis do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors.

if you wish can try it Cissus XT too

 

[fightbackhxc]

Huh? Then you havent used a truly "effective" cortisol product because a (sudden) drop in cortisol levels will cause sore joints

i find myself having to take something like cissus and fish oil with cortisol control.

 

[criticalbench]

Reduce xt is the same as the OG Lean xtreme. I suggest dosing at 3 caps per day(150 mgs)
Do you have any issues with sore joints from lowering cortisol levels?

And the OG was the best!

 

[John Smeton]

Huh? Then you havent used a truly "effective" cortisol product because a (sudden) drop in cortisol levels will cause sore joints

I have used plenty as I have been using bodybuilding supplements for over ten years and studied them(and been large and in charge ten years now, there is some healthy ego =) ). If you read my posts above you see that I have use cortisol controlsupplements

Its all a big myth and I dont know how that rumor got started, Im supecting someone that misunderstood something. I used to believe it myself until Patrick Arnold convinced me that it actually good for joints. and I know of anyone that is not goodfas Patrick at his work and specifically at 7 keto and 7 keto derivatives

maybe I need to ask him to come in here and give his opinion on this. I agree with Pat that a truly effective cortisol product is good for the joints

now ps is neutral because it prevents cortisol from going high and does nothing to reduce it, something that reduces cortisol most likely helps the joints out

 

[mr.cooper69]

I have used plenty as I have been using bodybuilding supplements for over ten years and studied them(and been large and in charge ten years now, there is some healthy ego =) ). If you read my posts above you see that I have use cortisol controlsupplementsIts all a big myth and I dont know how that rumor got started, Im supecting someone that misunderstood something. I used to believe it myself until Patrick Arnold convinced me that it actually good for joints. and I know of anyone that is not goodfas Patrick at his work and specifically at 7 keto and 7 keto derivativesmaybe I need to ask him to come in here and give his opinion on this. I agree with Pat that a truly effective cortisol product is good for the jointsnow ps is neutral because it prevents cortisol from going high and does nothing to reduce it, something that reduces cortisol most likely helps the joints out

This is a pretty broad spectrum statement. I don't think that's how PA put it initially. Perhaps he was referring to the MOA of 7-keto, rather than glucocorticoids?

 

[John Smeton]

Ill ask him to give his opinion on these two, in this thread[TABLE="class: cms_table_suppdata, width: 100%"]
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[TD]7-alpha-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]**[/TD]
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[TD]7-beta-hydroxy-dehydoepiandrosterone[/TD]
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[thedarce]

I have used plenty as I have been using bodybuilding supplements for over ten years and studied them(and been large and in charge ten years now, there is some healthy ego =) ). If you read my posts above you see that I have use cortisol control supplements

10 years???? you could have fooled me.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I have used plenty as I have been using bodybuilding supplements for over ten years and studied them(and been large and in charge ten years now, there is some healthy ego =) ). If you read my posts above you see that I have use cortisol controlsupplements

And you've been sh!tting your whole life, but can you explain the progression of nervous system activity leading to defecation? Experience means nothing in the context of this discussion. PA knows very well how cortisol behaves in the body. His statement was most likely in regards to 7-keto, which doesn't quite work in the manner that many people assume.

 

[bdcc]

Are you sure he wasn't talking about 7 spray not lowering cortisol systemically?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Reduce xt is the same as the OG Lean xtreme. I suggest dosing at 3 caps per day(150 mgs)
Do you have any issues with sore joints from lowering cortisol levels?

that compound will not affect circulating cortisol. in fact it will act as an anti-inflammatory itself,

the whole thing about 7-oxygenated dhea derivatives is misinformation.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Huh? Then you havent used a truly "effective" cortisol product because a (sudden) drop in cortisol levels will cause sore joints

what ingredient out there will cause a sudden drop in cortisol levels?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

7-oxo is the precursor to 7-OH so this up a step in the conversion and require a smaller dose.
plus Cissus Quadrangularis do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors.

where is the evidence that cissus blocks cortisol receptors?

maybe there is evidence that it can be antagonist to some of the effects of cortisol (such as in bone) but that does not mean it has any influence on cortisol levels and/or cortisol receptor binding

 

[mr.cooper69]

PA knows very well how cortisol behaves in the body. His statement was most likely in regards to 7-keto, which doesn't quite work in the manner that many people assume.

the whole thing about 7-oxygenated dhea derivatives is misinformation.

 

[mr.cooper69]

where is the evidence that cissus blocks cortisol receptors?

maybe there is evidence that it can be antagonist to some of the effects of cortisol (such as in bone) but that does not mean it has any influence on cortisol levels and/or cortisol receptor binding

It is indeed a glucocorticoid receptor antagonist in bone tissue.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Brb getting some popcorn. And some reduce xt cuz this is gonna get stressful.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

It is indeed a glucocorticoid receptor antagonist in bone tissue.

since cissus is a plant i find this very interesting (considering no one even knows what the active compounds in cissus actually are).

Is this something validated by an actual experiment or some mechanism proposed by some Indian scientists to explain the effect on bone but never actually validated

 

[mw1]

what ingredient out there will cause a sudden drop in cortisol levels?

The current version of Lean xtreme. Now your interpretation of sudden drop may differ from mine. I was speaking in regards to a 7-9 time frame...not a 24 hr if you thiught thats what i meant

 

[mr.cooper69]

since cissus is a plant i find this very interesting (considering no one even knows what the active compounds in cissus actually are). Is this something validated by an actual experiment or some mechanism proposed by some Indian scientists to explain the effect on bone but never actually validated

The indian scientists told me so . Unfortunately, I read this paper a few years ago and can no longer access it:"Effect of Cissus Quadrangularis on the healing of cortisone treated fractures"No, there are no in vitro assays done.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The indian scientists told me so . Unfortunately, I read this paper a few years ago and can no longer access it:"Effect of Cissus Quadrangularis on the healing of cortisone treated fractures"No, there are no in vitro assays done.

I wouldnt quote that paper as any sort of proof for cortisol receptor antagonism

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The current version of Lean xtreme. Now your interpretation of sudden drop may differ from mine. I was speaking in regards to a 7-9 time frame...not a 24 hr if you thiught thats what i meant

Green Tea Extract (50% EGCG), Coleus Forskohlii (40% Forskolin), Phosphatidylserine 45%, 5-AT (5-Etioallocholen-3b,7b,17b-tiol), 7OH (3b,7b-dihydroxy-5-Etioallocholen-17-one)


The only thing in here that i can see affecting cortisol levels is the PS, and that would simply be to blunt the stress induced increase in cortisol

green tea - no

coleus foreskin - no

the two dhea metabolites - no

 

[Patrick Arnold]

the two dhea metabolites may be able to lower cortisol levels in target tissues expressing 11b-hsd1 reductase, but that is not the same as in the blood. And connective tissue would not be one of those target tissues. So any sore joints from a product like that would be in your head or due to something other than those ingredients

 

[Uziel]

since cissus is a plant i find this very interesting (considering no one even knows what the active compounds in cissus actually are).

Is this something validated by an actual experiment or some mechanism proposed by some Indian scientists to explain the effect on bone but never actually validated

Bio-activity guided isolation of the methanolic extract of the stems of Cissus quadrangularis Linn., resulted three known compounds

1. lupeol
2. freidalin
3. b-sitosterol

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Bio-activity guided isolation of the methanolic extract of the stems of Cissus quadrangularis Linn., resulted three known compounds

1. lupeol
2. freidalin
3. b-sitosterol

there is no suggestion or indication that any of these compounds are responsible for the anti-inflammatory or other traditionally reported benefits of cissus.

cissus undoubtedly contains dozens if not hundreds of other compounds in concentrations high enough to be detected using current technology

 

[mr.cooper69]

there is no suggestion or indication that any of these compounds are responsible for the anti-inflammatory or other traditionally reported benefits of cissus. cissus undoubtedly contains dozens if not hundreds of other compounds in concentrations high enough to be detected using current technology

Some of its beneficial effects on bones have been elucidated with confidence (i.e. osteogenic stimulation).

 

[mw1]

Green Tea Extract (50% EGCG), Coleus Forskohlii (40% Forskolin), Phosphatidylserine 45%, 5-AT (5-Etioallocholen-3b,7b,17b-tiol), 7OH (3b,7b-dihydroxy-5-Etioallocholen-17-one)

The only thing in here that i can see affecting cortisol levels is the PS, and that would simply be to blunt the stress induced increase in cortisol

green tea - no

coleus foreskin - no

the two dhea metabolites - no

Perhaps it was the original formula i had used because I'm sure it did not have forskolin in it at the time...either that or myself and the MANY other people that have experienced sore joints from LX just imagined the sore joints i guess . Yea right..i guess now is the time you come in a promote your own product PA

 

[John Smeton]

Perhaps it was the original formula i had used because I'm sure it did not have forskolin in it at the time...either that or myself and the MANY other people that have experienced sore joints from LX just imagined the sore joints i guess . Yea right..i guess now is the time you come in a promote your own product PA

No one is here to promote a product , since you brought it up though the 7 spray was the best I have used thus far, I recommend you try it.

I am thinking of trying reduce xt.

Someone brought up that reduce xt lowers cortisol and effects joints,earlier in the thread and I had no idea they would and I am glad you did! Hope this changes your perspective on this topic I see get thrown around all the time , people blindly believing stuff that is just false

good day everyone

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Some of its beneficial effects on bones have been elucidated with confidence (i.e. osteogenic stimulation).

Yes that much appears to be true.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Perhaps it was the original formula i had used because I'm sure it did not have forskolin in it at the time...either that or myself and the MANY other people that have experienced sore joints from LX just imagined the sore joints i guess . Yea right..i guess now is the time you come in a promote your own product PA

I was called in here to discuss science. It is not my intention, let alone my style, to interject in threads to promote my products. People know me and my products as is anyway

 

[Daycrawler]

I thoroughly enjoyed Reduce XT while cutting.

Didn't experience any joint pain really while on it, but then again I only experienced mild joint pain @ 100mg of Erase so go figure.