The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
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Celorza
Well-known member
For all those of you Starting LG and want a quick breakdown and help with the macros and a bit of training advice , I suggest you try this:
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It helped me a lot to calculate macros and know the baselines for Cut/Recomp/Bulk , try it out if you would like, and also as Martin Recomends , keep it simple and whole body workouts!! Good luck :3
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It helped me a lot to calculate macros and know the baselines for Cut/Recomp/Bulk , try it out if you would like, and also as Martin Recomends , keep it simple and whole body workouts!! Good luck :3
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Keep in mind you don't have to do what Martin says in regards to workouts. LG doesn't dictate your workouts. I would workout in a fashion that best suits your goals.
Celorza
Well-known member
100% True :3!! Lean Gains is just a diet methodology and kind of lifestyle if used properly , but its not the ruler of workouts :3!! Wise words man , thanks a lot for all the advice and support you have been giving me!
Celorza
Well-known member
Its ok to have a bit more or a bit less, 10g is the usual dose of a BCAA supplement , just make sure no carbs are included so it doesnt break the fast , if looking to grow muscle try beta alanine and creatine along with your BCAAs , if its too much , simple 20-30 grams of whey isolate will do too.
TurningGreen
Well-known member
What kind of BCAAs you guys using? I usually use RecoverPro, but funds are tight right now and I'm looking for something a little more affordable. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I use Assault ~30 minutes pre-weights. Doesn't affect how many BCAAs I use pre-training (if I use them). Remember that all the guidelines given for Lean Gains are JUST guidelines and you can adapt it to suit YOU.
~Rosie~
soontobbeast
Well-known member
bulk leucine in a water bottle with some crystal light.
mkretz
Well-known member
ive been using the bulk modern bcaas from nutra....25$ for a kilo, pretty good deal, idl ove soem extend though....... in regard to preworkouts, i dont change how much bcaas i take but i make srue my preworkout is calorie free although id really liek to try my neosurge but since it had 5g carbs i dnt want that to effect my fast break
mxer657
Member
I got 2 of those. Taste is aight. Mixibility is good. Only complaint is the color! Grape=brown lol. Going to drop a dot of food dye so it stops freaking my brain out.
I haven't been on in a while, but have you guys discussed the idea that bcaa's might not be needed while fasting to prevent catabolism? Some guy on bb who is huge and lean does LG and openly doesn't use BCAA's. Not sure how true or accurate this is
Wocheezy
Member
I do this as well. I generally take a scoop of Assault with an additional 5g of leucine
F355
Member
Can someone help me out with what constitutes as breaking your fast? And also if your eating window can vary?
I'm trying to make this thing work as much as I can. I've decided not to even bother with running a ketogenic type diet. I actually respond just fine with low-GI carbs and fast carbs intra (Powerade). I'm taking in 2500kcals/day, ~100-150g of carbs, 200g of protein, and the rest from fats. Oats, fruits and Powerade are my only source of carbs, with Powerade only being consumed pre and during workouts. I will sometimes eat my last portion of oats postworkout ONLY if I didn't already preworkout. I base carbs only around workouts and after that it's all very low carbs, mainly from peanut butter and the 4g from whey shakes.
My question is, what is considered breaking a fast? I have class at 8am and I'm wondering if 3 packets of Splenda is enough to break a fast? I have tea in the morning but cut out the milk because I assume even less then a 1/4 of cup is considered breaking a fast. It's black tea so I can't exactly stomach it raw so I use 3 packets of Splenda to sweeten it instead of regular sugar. Splenda has dextrose, maltodextrin, and sucralose. If any of these is enough to break a fast, then I will drop the tea altogether and just use a stim to get me going and blunt the appetite. I might just consider green tea because I can actually drink it raw. Basically, what is the limit on what is considered breaking a fast? Is there a certain amount of carbs, fat, or protein I can ingest that won't break it, or is ANY amount considered breaking it? I don't want to be drinking my tea with Splenda at 7:30am and thinking it's not considered breaking if I only have until 3:30pm to eat all my meals.
Secondly, can I vary my eat window from day to day or does it have to remain strict? For example, can I eat one day from 2-10pm and then the next day from 1-9pm? Or do I have to strictly fast for 16+ hours for me to interchange? Basically, can I only switch the 8-hour window if I have fasted for 16 hours or more?
Sorry for the long read, but honestly these are the two things that I can't quite get a grasp on and is what is preventing me from nailing this routine down.
I'm trying to make this thing work as much as I can. I've decided not to even bother with running a ketogenic type diet. I actually respond just fine with low-GI carbs and fast carbs intra (Powerade). I'm taking in 2500kcals/day, ~100-150g of carbs, 200g of protein, and the rest from fats. Oats, fruits and Powerade are my only source of carbs, with Powerade only being consumed pre and during workouts. I will sometimes eat my last portion of oats postworkout ONLY if I didn't already preworkout. I base carbs only around workouts and after that it's all very low carbs, mainly from peanut butter and the 4g from whey shakes.
My question is, what is considered breaking a fast? I have class at 8am and I'm wondering if 3 packets of Splenda is enough to break a fast? I have tea in the morning but cut out the milk because I assume even less then a 1/4 of cup is considered breaking a fast. It's black tea so I can't exactly stomach it raw so I use 3 packets of Splenda to sweeten it instead of regular sugar. Splenda has dextrose, maltodextrin, and sucralose. If any of these is enough to break a fast, then I will drop the tea altogether and just use a stim to get me going and blunt the appetite. I might just consider green tea because I can actually drink it raw. Basically, what is the limit on what is considered breaking a fast? Is there a certain amount of carbs, fat, or protein I can ingest that won't break it, or is ANY amount considered breaking it? I don't want to be drinking my tea with Splenda at 7:30am and thinking it's not considered breaking if I only have until 3:30pm to eat all my meals.
Secondly, can I vary my eat window from day to day or does it have to remain strict? For example, can I eat one day from 2-10pm and then the next day from 1-9pm? Or do I have to strictly fast for 16+ hours for me to interchange? Basically, can I only switch the 8-hour window if I have fasted for 16 hours or more?
Sorry for the long read, but honestly these are the two things that I can't quite get a grasp on and is what is preventing me from nailing this routine down.
mxer657
Member
Anything under 40-50 calories within an hour won't break a fast. I personally stay under 30 for safety. Hopes this helps
EasyEJL
Never enough
splenda is fine, stevia would be somewhat better. Breaking a fast is usually considered taking in over 50 calories in an hour.
so far as the window goes, I'd think that the times you have a longer fasted window would make up for the times you have a shorter one in the long run, so some variance isn't bad. I'd think that the starting at 1 vs 2 is fine, but it might be an issue if the time wobbled from 11am to 3pm for first meal.
so far as the window goes, I'd think that the times you have a longer fasted window would make up for the times you have a shorter one in the long run, so some variance isn't bad. I'd think that the starting at 1 vs 2 is fine, but it might be an issue if the time wobbled from 11am to 3pm for first meal.
F355
Member
Anything under 40-50 calories within an hour won't break a fast. I personally stay under 30 for safety. Hopes this helps
Thanks. What do you mean by "...within an hour"? Like within an hour of when I'm going to break my fast? Or within an hour in general?
So can I have my tea with Splenda at 730am and be OK to break my fast at 2pm?
BTW, would using bulk Modern BCAAs be ok for fasted training? It contains natural flavors and sucralose but I'm not sure if it's completely calorie free. I don't want to risk ANYTHING and these artificial sweeteners are bugging me.
EasyEJL
Never enough
during any 60 minute time span prior to your breaking of fast. If you take in 30 calories every hour after waking up, your body is still in a fasted state.
10g of bcaas should count as 40 calories tops, so thats fine, so long as you aren't using 15+g at once.
F355
Member
I'm not seeing an unflavored version. I'm just gonna go with a Peach Punch and hope it doesn't fck up my fast.
F355
Member
Perfect. I assumed you meant this, I just needed the clarification.
And thanks for the BCAAs tip. One scoop amounts to 12.22g. It's 10g for all the amino acids, but that also includes Sustamine. Either way, it's 12.22g total including the flavoring, so it's not even 10g of BCAAs. I'll use one scoop for fasted cardio but during my eating window I'm going to do one scoop with added leucine, probaby like 10g or so.
I'm going to pick up some stevia as well. Thanks for the help EasyEJL. Now I can hit this routine strong without having to worry about what exactly breaks my fast.
F355
Member
Oh nah, I'm talking about the Bulk Modern BCAA under the USPowders line. The bulk version is a way better deal. Why pay retail when I can get double for less? I'm not too worried about taste to be honest.
mxer657
Member
grape bubblegum isn't bad
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Thanks for the responses all. I may try out some BULK MODERN! looks like a winner to me.
live to lift
Active member
Trying to get in on this epic thread. Couple questions i have read through the links but still lost with macros. I work a 10 to 6 job so i would follow protocol 2 with feed window from 12 to 8 2 meals preworkout first question since i will have 2 preworkout meals at 20 to 25% would i need bcaas? Second question with broscience no fat post workout do you try to get all your fat intake in with the 2 meals preworkout then straight protein and carbs post workout ?
Celorza
Well-known member
Ignore broscience , and have your macros even before bed , it doesnt matter , follow the protocol that suits you like the 2 preworkout meals , also BCAAs could be supplemented through the FASTING period from the morning every 2 to 3 hours or so , so as to prevent catabolism and keep the muscles fueled with aminos , good luck , if u still need help with the macros go to:
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Hope it helps!!
live to lift
Active member
Celorza said:
I read that link on a previous thread and i get the macros i guess what i dont get is how to eat those macros say for example you are required to get 200 g protein 300 g carbs and 20 to 30 grams of fat. In my protocol i would have my largest meal at meal 3 post workout. Is it ok to ingest fat at this time my normal weightlifting go to is little to no fat post workout see what im saying?
Celorza
Well-known member
Just try to keep like 50-60% of ur macros in the last one , the other 2 being just snacks , its ok to have the fats after the workout even before bed , its all in martins research , it doesnt affect you...Also , its better to have a HUGE post workout meal
!!, besides you need healthy monosaturated fat for test and also polysat fat for wellbeing , dont forget the omega 3's for leaning out!! Orange mix fish oil is awesome!! Eat fat ;p get fit!!
Wocheezy
Member
I personally avoid aminos except preworkout in order to maintain a truly fasted state. I will fast for 16-20 hours, take assault + bulk leucine preworkout, and then get all my macros post workout. Have been doing this for months and have yet to experience any muscle loss. IMO taking aminos every couple hours during the fast is counter-productive, if anything.
Celorza
Well-known member
Wouldnt 9 grams of carbs in assault be breaking the fast? And that is just 1/2 a scoop (normal serving) 1 scoop wouldnt it be 18g? Just saying...1/2 a scoop is soposedly 40 cals...so 1 scoop...80 cals...more than 50 cals break a fast?...just my 2 cents
Celorza
Well-known member
Oh ok ok i get yah , you use the "pre workout meal" kinda scheme :3 ok! But yeah I have heard BCAAs aint needed much too, but i take em just in case hehe
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Celorza said:
Helps the water intake go down too. It's a lot easier to drink a gallon of water a day when it's mixed with a few scoops of flavored BCAAs. IMO
Celorza
Well-known member
Haha hell yeah...much easier with something with om nom nom taste to quench the thirst and get your H2O down the pipe!! haha
daniel11
Member
its HARD WORK getting all the carbs in on the "ON" days.
I have a Maintenance kCal = 3250 kCal
Protein = 250 grams/day
in a recomp I have +/-20% kCal offset for On/Off days. After Protein calories, I split carbs/fats 75%/25% for On days, 50%/50% Off days.
This makes 542 grams of carbs to eat on my "on" days... I have a great appetite but I am finding it hard to get these into my meals.
anyone else have a hard time getting the carbs in on the high carb days?
I have a Maintenance kCal = 3250 kCal
Protein = 250 grams/day
in a recomp I have +/-20% kCal offset for On/Off days. After Protein calories, I split carbs/fats 75%/25% for On days, 50%/50% Off days.
This makes 542 grams of carbs to eat on my "on" days... I have a great appetite but I am finding it hard to get these into my meals.
anyone else have a hard time getting the carbs in on the high carb days?
daniel11
Member
as for the BCAA mini discussion above: I like getting m BCAAs in during fasting. I workout fasted in the AM. I sip on 10g before and throughout my workout. Then every 2 hours thereafter I refill. I never consume the whole lot quickly, but rather a small intake over an hour usually.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I use a serving of Assault pre-training and do not consider this "breaking the fast" at all. Then again, each to their own - adapt it for YOU.
~Rosie~
Celorza
Well-known member
True indeed!!! I was just merely checking on the calories ;p not shunning on it , besides I like assault myself , though I've been off from it a while.
Wocheezy
Member
I'm 100% with Rosie on this one. I still consider it fasted training when I take Assault beforehand. Not exactly sure where your getting the 'preworkout meal scheme' based off what I said Celorza
Celorza
Well-known member
Oh since you said u train after your fasted state , I assumed you were using 1 p.w.o. meal or 2 p.w.o. from the guidelines in lg.com lol
Celorza
Well-known member
I think thats a great way to keep it even leaner
!! Keep going man! and like The female terminator said, lets do w.e works best for each other!! 
! But I'll definetly be back on assault haha...I used to like it a lot some 4 or 5 months ago!
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
I personally don't buy into the voodoo of the fast. It's really not magic. Just a means to control calories. The beauty of it Imo is not having to eat ever 2.67hrs and getting some nice big meals.
I've added a small protein shake in the morning in my fasting window and there is really no difference.
I've added a small protein shake in the morning in my fasting window and there is really no difference.
Wocheezy
Member
I think thats a great way to keep it even leaner
Yeah I hear you on that! Do whatever works for you, no two people are the same. The important thing is that you're making progress, and getting closer to your own personal goals.
Wocheezy
Member
It's far from voodoo. There is a lot of science behind it and I think that it's impossible to tell whether there is or isn't a difference after adding a morning shake. Maybe for YOU that's true - when it comes to body composition, however the benefits of fasting reach far beyond just that.
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
Wocheezy said:
Ya.. Sure.. Lol
There is science on just about every diet. That is what gives a basis for it. That is what gives people the confidence to try it.
Do you feel 16hr is some magic number? Show me studies based on a fast for that time in weight trained individuals.
I still fast for 12hr technically. When I diet I'll fast longer just as a means to have more satisfying meals, but that's about it.
You believe what you like. I've been if'ng for the better part of 2 years trying various protocols for extended periods of time on myself and a few dozen others. I have an "ok" idea of what IF is and isn't.
The real "magic" is convenience.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
I couldn't rep this post twice, but, it's a good one! Personally, i enjoy the lower rep, higher intensity. i feel like strength comes on much quicker/remains this way