any REAL vasodilator supps?
- Thread starter bill86
- Start date
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
grngoloco said:Seriously,,, I take argininernithine in a 2:1 ratio for my blood pressure and IT WORKS!! try it yourself,,, if it doesn't work it won't cost you near as much as most other supplements people are talking about
I was taking double dose arginine along with whatever was in my preworkouts, doing this for about a week, then one day I had the squirts seriously all day. At least 5 times a day. After doing some research I decided to stop arginine, and about a week later I was "normal" again. Arginine was the only thing removed.
Your body can be poisoned with too much basically. It can reach "toxic levels" and symptoms such as mine are a possibility.
rms80
Board Sponsor
Not sure I agree with you- yes, pump does not equal vasodilation, but all of the ingredients listed have some effect on vasodilation/vasorelaxation in human and/or animal studies. Some may have caveats such as oral availability issues, but from a physiological standpoint all of the ingredients have at least some documented evidence of contributing to vasodilation. Some of the ingredients listed may be better than others at acheiving the goal, but this was a general list of compounds that I have seen published studies on- I would be more than glad to go through the list in terms of what I consider to be most effective based on what I have seen and documenable proof- and a lot of what you guys have discussed raises some interesting points....arginine would be one of my last choices for vasodilation (if my life depended on it), along with olive leaf extract and pycogenol, with PDE5 inhibitors and nitrates being at the top of the list
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
HemaVol can be taken daily if desired.
mr.cooper69
Legend
As I said in my previous posts, we are talking about oral, supplemental L-arginine in reasonable doses, not endogenous or intravenous. Anyway, I'll let Vaughn take over as I grow weary of the arginine debates.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
This is true
Relying on abstracts alone can be quite deceiving and misleading. Its hard to come to a conclusion based off just the abstract without reviewing all the data in the entire paper.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I always enjoy discussing topics with people, its when the attitudes/attacks start surfacing that make it unbearable. I have no issue continuing this with you since you're obviously looking for the real info/truth, and not a fight(at least I hope not haha).
What I am saying is that the production of nitric oxide does not occur in our stomachs, and by the time arginine is digested/absorbed, it is no longer arginine...therefor it will not increase NO.
Again, compare this to Beta Alanaine & Carnosine...which would YOU take to boost Carnosine levels?
Check out the formula here:
Invalid Link Removed
Yes, I forgot about Nitrates.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Which is why I requested him to post 1 study that showed healthy humans increasing their NO through the use of oral arginine.
Why would I read an entire paper if the abstract doesn't begin to touch on the specific topic on hand?
I can post a tone of abstracts and full studies all day long, yet it doesn't mean they'll have anything to do with the conversation.
grngoloco
Well-known member
FL3X MAGNUM said:
You can get the squirts from vitamin c... that doesn't equate with being "poisoned" it just means you weren't used to it,,, you have to raise your dosage gradually ..... also it should be taken alone,, it competes for receptors and any that passes through without being absorbed adds to the squirts
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
i c wut u did thar.
rms80
Board Sponsor
There are definitely better alternatives out there for the task at hand.....having to take 20 grams of ANY amino acid at once to elicit some sort of response is not my idea of a fun afternoon....
JonRubio
Active member
:rofl:
fastneutron
New member
Was doing AAKG for many years at fairly high dosage (10 grams) but pumps wouldn't last long.... maybe a couple of hours at most then the pumps went away.
For me the best NO boosters are Agmatine, GPLC, and Creatine Nitrate. You can get the bulk agmatine from Muscle Feast. Was using Primordial's GPLC for a long time (which was great) but now they've discontinued it
You can PrimaForce which is good but not as good of a value.
For a great combo product you can do APS's Nitrozine which has GPLC and Agmatine... sick pumps all day.
For me the best NO boosters are Agmatine, GPLC, and Creatine Nitrate. You can get the bulk agmatine from Muscle Feast. Was using Primordial's GPLC for a long time (which was great) but now they've discontinued it
You can PrimaForce which is good but not as good of a value.For a great combo product you can do APS's Nitrozine which has GPLC and Agmatine... sick pumps all day.
flightposite
Board Sponsor
Nitrates
Gplc
Agmatine
My picks
Gplc
Agmatine
My picks
GTB
Member
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
tuberman
Active member
I've personally compared Agmatine, Citulline Malate, and GLPC together with a Nitrate (Yoked) and, although both worked extremely well, the nitrate worked slightly better for me. But Agmatine and Yoked together-- Ha!
The cool thing about these supps is they not only make you look more pumped, but they dramatically increase energy and cardio abilities. I'm old and I can get 15.5 - 16 mets out of my cycling ablities when I go all out for 30 minutes. Ten mets is good shape for a 45 year old, and higher is better. And these supps do make a big difference.
The cool thing about these supps is they not only make you look more pumped, but they dramatically increase energy and cardio abilities. I'm old and I can get 15.5 - 16 mets out of my cycling ablities when I go all out for 30 minutes. Ten mets is good shape for a 45 year old, and higher is better. And these supps do make a big difference.
grngoloco
Well-known member
I've been using arginine for 15 years as a precursor for gh release ..... I am new to body building and have a dumb question,,,,, I've read that getting "pump" serves no real purpose other than boosting the ego.....is there any truth to this,,, and if not, what physiological benefit does the "pump" serve?
th3futur3
Active member
Google Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. There is many benefits to the pump...is it the end all end all thing to strive for? I would say no. I think progressive overload is something that should be focused on...but varying your rep ranges, aka getting a pump, has it's place. Try doing a widowmaker set (20 reps) at the end of each bodypart and engorge that muscle with blood...then extreme stretch for 60-90 seconds. Try it for a month then tell me if that part grew...
StackedCop
Well-known member
I used to think the same thing about pumps... Now I wish I started focusing on "pumps" a lot sooner. My joints probably wouldn't hurt so much either.
mr.cooper69
Legend
No. Nutrients are delivered just fine to muscles, regardless of the state of your blood vessels. The increase in bloodflow does boost vasoregulatory function, however, which results in true NO boosters serving as ergogenic aids.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
Aren't most stimulants vasoconstrictors anyway? I don't understand the connection you are trying to make with this?
mr.cooper69
Legend
Hemavol doesn't contain stimulants. And no, during exercise caffeine actually acts as a vasodilator [in skeletal muscle], along with a couple other noteworthy CNS stims.
MattPorter
Banned
DO people not understand how important insulin is for "pumps"???
-Matt
-Matt
monstermash
Well-known member
Drop that knowledge bomb on AM Matt.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
= winning upon winning.
MattPorter
Banned
If you are NOT suffering from insulin resistance and are NOT obese INSULIN will increase blood flow to skeletal muscle. The combination of insulin being spiked + exercising will increase blood flow, oxygen, and many other vital nutrients into muscle cells.
Leaner people are TYPICALLY more insulin sensitive and will respond well to an insulin spike pre-workout. Fatter people TYPICALLY are more insulin resistant and will NOT respond favorably to an insulin spike.
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Matt
Leaner people are TYPICALLY more insulin sensitive and will respond well to an insulin spike pre-workout. Fatter people TYPICALLY are more insulin resistant and will NOT respond favorably to an insulin spike.
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Matt
EArch
Member
I get the best pumps lifting about an hour to an hour and a half atfer a high complex carb meal and drinking a lotta water. works for me. maybe it has something to do with the insulin.
ScienceGuided
Active member
Icariin + agmatine + sns Arginine E2 Matrix = honestly the sickest pump and most vascular I have ever been
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
really not carcinogenic when it isn't combined with processed/preserved meats...
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thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
^ wrong chemical. The concept is still the same, the reduction potential (and therefore activity) is greater.
The associated cation has an effect on the reactivity of the compound. In the case of supplements, it's attached to an amino acid, making it a weaker electrolyte. Sodium being a strong electrolyte leads to more free nitrates. THe nitrates break down and form free radicals and oxidize the crap out of everything. Most nitrates with a metal cation will discolor your skin as a result of the anion reacting with the cation, forming the metal oxide.
The associated cation has an effect on the reactivity of the compound. In the case of supplements, it's attached to an amino acid, making it a weaker electrolyte. Sodium being a strong electrolyte leads to more free nitrates. THe nitrates break down and form free radicals and oxidize the crap out of everything. Most nitrates with a metal cation will discolor your skin as a result of the anion reacting with the cation, forming the metal oxide.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Simple antioxidants should solve it pretty quickly
grngoloco
Well-known member
Been looking at several articles on the subject,,, definitely not black and white with regards to whether nitrates are safe or not,,,, just goes to show, we definitely need to do our own research when deciding what to put in our bodies ..... I, for one, try to not take any chemical or supplement that doesn't have at least 10 years of research behind it.... most of what I take, I've been taking for over 20 years
AaronJP1
Board Sponsor
People ranted and raved over Nanostim, the company that makes it I'm not a huge fan of, but said hey I'll try it. Forked over my $30 and pumps are ok, it's like once u use something for a bit maybe the body becomes tolerant cuz I've used pump products before.
Vasotropin looks good but I don't always get a heavy carb mean in before my work out and white blood looks solid, something I def want to try... One good thing about nanostim is it does give u a great focus...
Vasotropin looks good but I don't always get a heavy carb mean in before my work out and white blood looks solid, something I def want to try... One good thing about nanostim is it does give u a great focus...