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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

Start of the year will be doing my first test E only cycle kick started with 3 weeks of low dose SuperDrol. I have been on LG for the past 9 weeks and have seen incredible results while cutting. I am definitely going to stick with the LG protocol. My debate is whether or not I should move to 4 build days on test E which will of course equal more calories while on cycle. I still plan to do cardio on burn days. I just don't want to lose what abs I have uncovered. Any suggestions?
 
wesg49 said:
Start of the year will be doing my first test E only cycle kick started with 3 weeks of low dose SuperDrol. I have been on LG for the past 9 weeks and have seen incredible results while cutting. I am definitely going to stick with the LG protocol. My debate is whether or not I should move to 4 build days on test E which will of course equal more calories while on cycle. I still plan to do cardio on burn days. I just don't want to lose what abs I have uncovered. Any suggestions?
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I would increase calories slightly across the board personally, and take it from there, increasing as needed. Don't add a **** ton of calories right off the bat just because you are on cycle.

Mabey just bump your maintenance up 100-200 calories, and continue doing the 20/20 to start.

Or you can just bring up all burn days a couple hundred calories as well, maybe to like the -10% range.

Either way let the results, dictate where you go.
 
That's what I was thinking frank but I wasn't sure if I should add another build day or not. I saw for example on ricks lean bulk with Lg he moved to a 4th build day.
 
wesg49 said:
That's what I was thinking frank but I wasn't sure if I should add another build day or not. I saw for example on ricks lean bulk with Lg he moved to a 4th build day.
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It is all relative man. Weekly calories.. Focus on that. If you feel you need more, bump em. You can do that by adding another build day, increasing all days(increasing maint you calculate 20/20 from), bring burn days up, etc.
 
I just want to say I'm really thankful for this thread and all of the people who participate in it. It has totally transformed the way I view food, dieting, etc. I used to always look for the cookie cutter diet that outlined everything and gave no freedom, etc. Dieting was driving me mad I tell ya.

On another note even tho my build days have been huge I've ended up losing about half a pound over the last week. I'm going to continue playing with the #'s but this is good news that I'm still on track. Oh did I mention I have reduced my cardio dramatically and am still seeing results. Now that feels good.
 
Im curious to know every one in this threads CALORIES on Build, Burn, and Rest days, along with their weight.

just a a general consensus, plus i may use these stats in one of my elective classes for my masters degree. so any help is appreciated (class is called recent trends in nutrition)
 
165-170 in the morning depending on if it's the day after a burn or build. Around 14%bf. 1600-1700 burn days & 2800-3200 build days.
 
I am 206 and take in 1300-1800 on burn days and 2200-2600 on build days. It is also why I tend to opt for 2 meals so I can have better foods. Slow or shall we be nice and say "Very Efficient" metabolism...
 
ssbackwards said:
Im curious to know every one in this threads CALORIES on Build, Burn, and Rest days, along with their weight.

just a a general consensus, plus i may use these stats in one of my elective classes for my masters degree. so any help is appreciated (class is called recent trends in nutrition)
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I don't do "build" or "burn" days, but I definitely have "rest" days. That said, I'm not the best example to use, since my body is a bit of an anomaly in how it responds to things (and nutrition is not the key to my conditioning because of physiological conditions), but I have the same most days - I might do a day a little lower or even higher sometimes, but it's normally as my body "feels" it and not so much "planned". Generally though, I average ~4,300 calories a day - yes, goes to show that the "calculations" of Maintenance do not always translate into reality, and my Maintenance was calculated through recording my entire activity re everything for a single typical day and doing it that way. Body mass fluctuates between 103-105 pounds right now, although after a higher day (if that day is a non-weight-training day or the second one where no resistance training has been completed), it can go up by as much as 10-15 pounds and then be lost over the next 2-3 days.

~Rosie~
 
ssbackwards said:
Im curious to know every one in this threads CALORIES on Build, Burn, and Rest days, along with their weight.

just a a general consensus, plus i may use these stats in one of my elective classes for my masters degree. so any help is appreciated (class is called recent trends in nutrition)
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Well, I'm sitting at around 176-178 right now, and I've been doing around 3k on build days and 1800-2k on burn days (currently 4 build days and 3 burn)
 
MrKleen73 said:
I am 206 and take in 1300-1800 on burn days and 2200-2600 on build days. It is also why I tend to opt for 2 meals so I can have better foods. Slow or shall we be nice and say "Very Efficient" metabolism...
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MrKleen and I have very similar metabolisms and pretty much identical calories. I really have to give him credit for me even starting lean gains. Damn near walked me through it! Thanks brotha Kleen.
 
TurningGreen said:
MrKleen and I have very similar metabolisms and pretty much identical calories. I really have to give him credit for me even starting lean gains. Damn near walked me through it! Thanks brotha Kleen.
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MrKleen73 said:
I am 206 and take in 1300-1800 on burn days and 2200-2600 on build days. It is also why I tend to opt for 2 meals so I can have better foods. Slow or shall we be nice and say "Very Efficient" metabolism...
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We should start some sort of ****ty metabolism crew..haha Fatties unite!

Mine right now are about 2300(x3), 1700(x3) and down to a half day refeed. I am like 192-5 right now, and gaining here. When dieting 1800/1300, plus ass loads of cardio.

Yeaaaaa budddy.
 
how many dys or how much do u nee to restrict in order to have one of these epic refees frank? i really wanna do this lol
 
mkretz said:
how many dys or how much do u nee to restrict in order to have one of these epic refees frank? i really wanna do this lol
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I just posted my exact layout..lol

Honestly refeeds don't negatively effect my progress. I can do 1800/1300 and just one cheat meal, or 1800/1300 and a 10k calorie refeed and progress is the same, believe it or not. It might actually be slightly better with a refeed, and I am much happier.

However now that my weekly cals/carbs are up I have cut back to half a day, rather then a full day, as I am just not as depleted, and don't need the same size load to fill me out.
 
well what woul u say woudl be a good protocol for me? i usually o 3300 on build days 2400 on burn days......cut it down to 2400 for like 4 or 5 days then just do a refeed of like 5000?
 
mkretz said:
well what woul u say woudl be a good protocol for me? i usually o 3300 on build days 2400 on burn days......cut it down to 2400 for like 4 or 5 days then just do a refeed of like 5000?
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Hard to say brotha. I don't like giving advice without knowing more about the whole picture. I know my body well, and when I am working with someone else directly, I know their body/metabolsim/ well, so I can make changes as needed.

How many g of carbs on each day? How much cardio? Training 3 days?
 
been cycling between 300g CHO and 200 and jsut veggie on off days...no actual "cardio" althoguh i do walk on tehtredmil for a mile or two sometimes and study my school wrok......workout about 5-6 times a week
 
Daily Report for December 14, 2011Daily Log
Breakfast 2,828

Turkey, ground, 8% fat, raw 41 ¼ Ounces 1,742

Goat Cheese Chevrine 4 Ounces 280No nutrient data for: Fiber, Sugars, Chol., Sodium

Guacamole 8 Tablespoons 240No nutrient data for: Sugars, Chol., Sodium

Chicken Breast Cooked 6 ½ Ounces 260No nutrient data for: Fiber, Sugars, Chol., Sat. Fat, Sodium

Pecan Hazel Mac Cacao Butter 2 Tablespoons 201No nutrient data for: Chol., Sodium

Pb Smuckers 1 Tablespoon 105

*Nutrients
Fat 173g 56%
Saturated Fat 50g
Cholesterol 924mg
Sodium 1159mg
Carbohydrates 21g 3%
Fiber 13g
Sugars 1g
Protein 288g 41%*

SummaryFood Calories 2,828

Exercise Calories -Net Calories

2,828+/- Calories 18Weight

-*Tip: You can copy and paste the above tables directly into Excel.*

This report was generated with Lose It!

Sent from my iPhone

it is prolly about 200 cals higher from some onion and peppers i had in the turkey chili, along with some balsamic i added.

workout was 24:45 min run, 2.6 miles. then

2 set leg ext, 2 set SLDL, 2 set physioball Leg curls, 1 set physioball bridges, 5 sets leg press

Some abs.
 
Wow relly sorry bout that layout I just did

Seems like a lot of your guys' build days are so high. Mkretz and Rosie for you low weight your cals are super high.

I just wanted to see average discrepancy between weights, supposed caloric intake vs actual intake. Very interesting. I would like to see hormones in relation to these numbers.
 
I'm really going to stick to 2700-2800 on build days and 1600 on burn days for the next week or so to monitor it closer to track the results.
 
I'm sitting around 2300-2400 cals on w/o days & 1700 cals on non w/o days, working on a re-comp but at a slightly faster pace. Doing a 12-16 week run to see where it takes me and meticulously tracking calories daily and will adjust as needed. Also do low intensity cardio everyday, usually only a morning fasted walk or use my elliptical for 20 min or so.

I use to think I need to be stay around 200lbs and mentally that kept me feeling good but in the mirror it wasn't looking so good. 5'7'' @ 200lbs @ 10% BF was my ultimate goal but you know what, I'm not even going to stress so much on my weight and just see where this all can take me. As long as I'm not losing muscle & strength while re-comping I'll be ok with whatever weight I end up at as long as in the mirror I'm looking good.
 
Ya I've stopped worrying about a certain weight and just go off of the mirror and how I feel. It's much better for me personally.
 
ssbackwards said:
Wow relly sorry bout that layout I just did

Seems like a lot of your guys' build days are so high. Mkretz and Rosie for you low weight your cals are super high.

I just wanted to see average discrepancy between weights, supposed caloric intake vs actual intake. Very interesting. I would like to see hormones in relation to these numbers.
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You are always going to have those who do not fit the "acceptable curve". Like I said, I'm an anomaly and what works for me works for MY body (and likely no one else, LOL) specifically because of physiological conditions that I have - that, and the fact that I have been training for years and are actually currently eating not even HALF of what I USED to! A lot of individual factors come into play when it comes to something like this, and whilst a "calculation" may be used as a "guideline", it does not mean that it is accurate - which is why I always recommend using them ONLY as guidelines and adjusting everything based on progress and results for every individual.


houstontexas said:
Ya I've stopped worrying about a certain weight and just go off of the mirror and how I feel. It's much better for me personally.
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Definitely the way to go, since scale weight does NOT give you ANY indication of what your BODY COMPOSITION (the IMPORTANT factor) is!
 
JRC said:
I'm sitting around 2300-2400 cals on w/o days & 1700 cals on non w/o days, working on a re-comp but at a slightly faster pace. Doing a 12-16 week run to see where it takes me and meticulously tracking calories daily and will adjust as needed. Also do low intensity cardio everyday, usually only a morning fasted walk or use my elliptical for 20 min or so.

I use to think I need to be stay around 200lbs and mentally that kept me feeling good but in the mirror it wasn't looking so good. 5'7'' @ 200lbs @ 10% BF was my ultimate goal but you know what, I'm not even going to stress so much on my weight and just see where this all can take me. As long as I'm not losing muscle & strength while re-comping I'll be ok with whatever weight I end up at as long as in the mirror I'm looking good.
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That is exactly the approach that I went to with lean gains when I started it. Last winter before lean gains my goal was to get to 200 lbs, and I did. I ended up looking very soft and fat in my eyes. Not exactly the big built look I thought I would be. Then with LG, I made it all the way to the 165 as seen in my avi. I am now carrying much more muscle than ever and stronger than ever all while being at a low bodyfat. I've never had more compliments on my appearance in my life, and I've never been happier with myself. The scale doesn't mean sh1t....its all about how you look in the mirror ;)
 
Rosie Chee Scott said:
You are always going to have those who do not fit the "acceptable curve". Like I said, I'm an anomaly and what works for me works for MY body (and likely no one else, LOL) specifically because of physiological conditions that I have - that, and the fact that I have been training for years and are actually currently eating not even HALF of what I USED to! A lot of individual factors come into play when it comes to something like this, and whilst a "calculation" may be used as a "guideline", it does not mean that it is accurate - which is why I always recommend using them ONLY as guidelines and adjusting everything based on progress and results for every individual.




Definitely the way to go, since scale weight does NOT give you ANY indication of what your BODY COMPOSITION (the IMPORTANT factor) is!
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you are definetly one of a kind.

i assume training i cardio intensive, plyometric crossfit type?

i mean my girl is 103 lbs, and was maintaining at around 1400-1500 on workout days and 1100 on non workout. shes also shorter then you, wants to be 98 lbs. steadily getting there, but i know shes trains hard, kickboxes and lifts, and her cals arent close to yours.

i wonder how you came across your personal intake.. care to share?
 
ssbackwards said:
you are definetly one of a kind.

i assume training i cardio intensive, plyometric crossfit type?

i mean my girl is 103 lbs, and was maintaining at around 1400-1500 on workout days and 1100 on non workout. shes also shorter then you, wants to be 98 lbs. steadily getting there, but i know shes trains hard, kickboxes and lifts, and her cals arent close to yours.

i wonder how you came across your personal intake.. care to share?
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Actually, I don't do a lot of cardio - ~20 minutes a day. I sometimes include plyometrics - if I want to do anything leg-related (since I don't work them otherwise). Never do crossfit. My training is like everything else - very specific to ME. If you've ever looked at one of my logs here, you can see what my training is - my most recent (and "current") is the best indicator of what my training is like now re what I do, since I have worked it down to what my body needs and what I want re physique. And I have actually CUT my training down by a LOT from what I WAS doing, so goes to show that more is not always best, and that definitely, definitely, one needs to do what is right for THEIR body!

There really is no reason for an adult female to be under 100 pounds really, IMO - she has to be aware that, regardless of her height (I am not that tall), if she carries any decent amount of muscle, she is going to be heavier (but look a lot better) than others of her height and a similar body mass. Tell her to focus on her BODY COMPOSITION instead of her scale weight. Regardless, everyone is an individual, so they should be treated like one when it comes to everything re training, nutrition, and supplementation, etc. - NO EXCEPTIONS!

As I mentioned earlier, "my Maintenance was calculated through recording my entire activity re everything for a single typical day and doing it that way" (i.e. everything done over the course of a day re time, period, etc. was recorded, and then looked up on charts re caloric expenditure for that particular activity and all tallied up.

~Rosie~
 
i told her id gbet her to 98 lbs and keep her there for 2 days just to say she could do it because i can a gree with you on that notion.
 
trying to come up with a keto friendly holiday dish...

Apple butter (one tablespoon) ginger, cinamon. little bit of nutmeg. and im thinking apple cider vinager

toss in frying pan with a wet marinade of lime juice and mustard with water (to keep spoke point of olive oil down) and then fry.

i may try this tomorrow.
 
TRIVIA is Now...

Invalid Link Removed
 
Doing 2 meals a day how would you dose ALA? I was thinking 300mg before first meal, 300 pre-wo, and 600 before 2nd meal. That would be on build days. Could I just dose 600 each meal on burn days? I haven't taken it much on burn days due to lack of significant amounts of carbs in the meals but I would think the overall benefits would be greater with daily intake. Any opinions from ppl with a lot of experience with ALA would be great.
 
What's up everybody. I'm new to AM and I'm very interested in leangains. I've been having trouble cutting for years because I had no discipline at all. I am now ready to make that change and get serious about this again.

I would appreciate it if someone could help me understand leangains a bit more. I really need help in the area of my daily Cal intake/macros.

5ft7
196 lbs
21% bf
Lifting 3 days a week(heavy)
Work an 8 hr desk job.

I appreciate any help that you guys can offer.
 
take ur bw multiply by 13 use that as maintainence....days u lift do +20%, others do -20% see hwo that works for u..... fast for 16 hours at least and eat all ur cals in the reming time with ur bigget meal ieally as ur "fast breaking" meal and post workout, if u train after work have 1 pre workout meal of aroun 20% cals an then have about 55% cals pwo an another smaller meal befor bed, u adjust ur macros how u see fit
 
mkretz said:
take ur bw multiply by 13 use that as maintainence....days u lift do +20%, others do -20% see hwo that works for u..... fast for 16 hours at least and eat all ur cals in the reming time with ur bigget meal ieally as ur "fast breaking" meal and post workout, if u train after work have 1 pre workout meal of aroun 20% cals an then have about 55% cals pwo an another smaller meal befor bed, u adjust ur macros how u see fit
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What about my macros? Proteins, carbs, fats?
 
mkretz said:
thats gonna depen on u and how u handle carbs...start with 40/30/30 pro carb fat and see how taht works
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Great idea
 
I just found this thread .. Really interesting .. Was discussing with my girl and she brought up a good point .. For our household anyhow ..

This may have been asked, if so, apologies ..

I get real cranky (like ready to hit things cranky) if I dont eat every couple hours .. Has/was this an issue for any of you either before or since starting ?? If so, did you get past it ?? How long did it take ??
 
SMC USA said:
I just found this thread .. Really interesting .. Was discussing with my girl and she brought up a good point .. For our household anyhow ..

This may have been asked, if so, apologies ..

I get real cranky (like ready to hit things cranky) if I dont eat every couple hours .. Has/was this an issue for any of you either before or since starting ?? If so, did you get past it ?? How long did it take ??
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Yeh when I initially told my wife I was planning on doing this diet she laughed and said there was no way I was going 16 hrs without eating. Your body slowly adapts to the change, and after a week or two you don't even really get hungry until right before breaking fast. Its not a probably for me to hit 20 hrs for an extended fast on burn days when I need to now either ;)
 
houstontexas said:
Doing 2 meals a day how would you dose ALA? I was thinking 300mg before first meal, 300 pre-wo, and 600 before 2nd meal. That would be on build days. Could I just dose 600 each meal on burn days? I haven't taken it much on burn days due to lack of significant amounts of carbs in the meals but I would think the overall benefits would be greater with daily intake. Any opinions from ppl with a lot of experience with ALA would be great.
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Bump for opinions on this question. Mostly curious about low carb burn day dosage.
 
houstontexas said:
Bump for opinions on this question. Mostly curious about low carb burn day dosage.
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I would do a lower amount (probably 300) on burn days if your carbs are lower. Just my opinion
 
If its regular ala the antiox benefits are worth it, and I dont recall feeling hypoglycemic at even 600 with 0 carbs
 
EasyEJL said:
If its regular ala the antiox benefits are worth it, and I dont recall feeling hypoglycemic at even 600 with 0 carbs
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Maybe I will do 300 and then bump it up to 600 each meal if all goes well
 
houstontexas said:
Doing 2 meals a day how would you dose ALA? I was thinking 300mg before first meal, 300 pre-wo, and 600 before 2nd meal. That would be on build days. Could I just dose 600 each meal on burn days? I haven't taken it much on burn days due to lack of significant amounts of carbs in the meals but I would think the overall benefits would be greater with daily intake. Any opinions from ppl with a lot of experience with ALA would be great.
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you can take it everyday regardless of carbohydrate amounts.

today alone i think i took 5g. i ate 2 big meals.
 
SMC USA said:
I just found this thread .. Really interesting .. Was discussing with my girl and she brought up a good point .. For our household anyhow ..

This may have been asked, if so, apologies ..

I get real cranky (like ready to hit things cranky) if I dont eat every couple hours .. Has/was this an issue for any of you either before or since starting ?? If so, did you get past it ?? How long did it take ??
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this has to do with poor glucose control nothing else.

It could also be due to not eating enough at the meal.

do you have high bodyfat? high carb cravings or high fat craving?
 
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