7-Spray
- Thread starter Whacked
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BurghHardcore
Well-known member
Care to expand on that? Would be interesting to know what you know on this? What did I miss?
henryv
Active member
I understand a bottle was sent by a customer to a third party and the test results were unsatisfactory. Obviously chain of custody was not intact (since it could have been tampered with by the customer), the results have not been made public by the customer, and I have no desire to be sued (wrongfully or otherwise) so I'll just say that I understand the sample tested was about 50% 7-keto.
T50
Active member
Where is the lab report proving this?
Liftergym33
Well-known member
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
]
dude dont make a claim like that and not back it up....this isnt BB.com. If you are going to make a claim have some evidence to prove it rather than just hearsay or stories.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
a little disingenuous here bud.
The story, from what I understand, goes:
Customer sent the bottle to PA who is a little more then just a "third party" but the owner of a company who produces a similar 7-keto spray product for TWICE the cost of 7-KE. He then claims the ingredients arent what they say they are on the label WITHOUT any evidence whatsoever and since PHF worships PA everyone jumps on the hating bandwagon.
How come no one sees this for what it truly is? A competing company upset that TN offered a similar product for half the cost so in efforts to defame said product wild claims and accusations were made with no evidence backing these claims and since the internet LOVES the drama it becomes the talk of the interwebs. He definitely has a motive here to cause doubt over 7KE and I would have thought this would at the very least cause people to think twice before just co-signing the statement but alas I guess people love the drama way to much to stop and actually think about it.
StackedCop
Well-known member
If 7Ke spray had banned steroids in it wouldn't people be reporting side effect. For exp wouldn't Rosie be all ****ed up?? She uses this stuff like body wash lol
henryv
Active member
This isn't bb.com and I'm not a bb.commer. The question was asked what the differences are, and I gave what I believe to be an honest answer. I was quite clear about it as well. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just passing on what I have been told.
Check out Invalid Link Removed for more info. You may want to start at Invalid Link Removed if you're only interested in the 7-ke stuff.
henryv
Active member
Actually I was being very honest, but I have no interest in being named in any suit so I'm trying to be careful not to expose myself or my boss to the potential for litigation.
PA has been testing supplements on behalf of the industry and the consumer for many years. Sometimes the products are exactly what they are supposed to be. Sometimes they are not. And I haven't signed any statement, co- or otherwise.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
Henry I know who ya are. I know you are knowledgeable but you are are probably a bit bias. Ill check it out.. But im just tired of board drama based on what someone said. Seems like there jas been too m uch lately
henryv
Active member
People can do whatever they like with the information. Deny it, believe it, ignore it, whatever. It's not my job to defend test results I haven't seen. There are enough other points raised in that thread about the Taurus product to make one question the accuracy of the label.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
:rofl:
henryv
Active member
I don't see what's funny. Some companies pay PA for testing. Some consumers pay PA for testing. Sometimes he does it for free because he's interested in the results.
Look. You're a rep, I'm a rep. Why don't we let our bosses argue over this stuff. If it does turn out that your product doesn't meet label claims (and it obviously doesn't already in several ways, regardless of the ingredients), the less you say about it now the less words you'll have to eat later.
taman6886
Well-known member
Seriously. I love how all of these people who drop this crap provide no proof of the details of their sordid tales and then act as if the have no culpability in starting or keeping this rumor alive. Kind of like me saying I heard my neighbor is a pedophile. I am not saying he is, it is just what I have heard. Oh, no, no, I do not have any proof, I am just saying what I was told and trying to be honest about it. Don't expect me to be held accountable for this, because I did not say it was true, I am simply telling you what I heard. BULL****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are worried about "honestly" or "culpability" (or even freaking decency for that matter) keep you mouth shut until you have something to back it up. But do not come in here playing all innocent with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" and not expect to be accountable. What a damn cop out! At this point, I don't even care all that much about what the "truth" of the matter is, the SLIME BALL manner in which this rumor has been disseminated and the weasel like manner that those who have done it try to deny their own guilt in the issue sickens me. I was raised and honor that your word is your bond and have raised my children the same way, promise or no. If I told you I will perform it, I will perform it. If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
If you are worried about "honestly" or "culpability" (or even freaking decency for that matter) keep you mouth shut until you have something to back it up. But do not come in here playing all innocent with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying" and not expect to be accountable. What a damn cop out! At this point, I don't even care all that much about what the "truth" of the matter is, the SLIME BALL manner in which this rumor has been disseminated and the weasel like manner that those who have done it try to deny their own guilt in the issue sickens me. I was raised and honor that your word is your bond and have raised my children the same way, promise or no. If I told you I will perform it, I will perform it. If I don't KNOW something to be true, I do not repeat it. Even if it is true, I still may not repeat it if it will not be beneficial to anyone. Too bad for some people it seems that code of honor does not exist.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
LMAO:lol:, you bring up lable claims? Im Curious, and i would like to hear Mr. Arnold answer this, has he never sold a supplement that has been tainted? or are you saying this? I would choose my words carefully...
seccsi
Active member
I think if the shoe were on the other foot (Taurus or some other company claiming your products were inaccurate) you might believe otherwise about the need for proof.Without proof reps and owners can just go around all day talking about the fact that competitors products don't have in them what they say they have.
I don't have a dog in this fight, and none of it effects my bottom line at all. But you're literally telling other people that the Taurus product is not what they say it is and then saying you haven't seen the test results....doesn't seem very fair to me.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
Etched in stone!^
henryv
Active member
This is all very heartwarming to hear and I'm sure it makes you feel great about yourself to come out with such crap. Don't call me a slime ball or a weasel. I'm neither.
LMAO:lol:, you bring up lable claims? Im Curious, and i would like to hear Mr. Arnold answer this, has he never sold a supplement that has been tainted? or are you saying this? I would choose my words carefully...
We are not talking about supplements that contain miniscule traces of other compounds (say less than 1% contamination due to an unfinished reaction or something).
We are talking about a product that does not contain the ingredients it says it does.
And I always choose my words carefully.
Even if I had seen the mass spec data I would still be none the wiser. I have little to no understanding of how to read them. PA, on the other hand, has decades of experience at the GCMS.
taman6886
Well-known member
I didn't call any one anything. Those terms were my descriptors for the behavior I was observing. Read it again if you need to. If you think they apply to you personally, that is not my problem, that is yours.
henryv
Active member
I don't need to read anything again. The inference was obvious. I'm sorry you seem to think I lack "honour", but at least I'm not backhandedly insulting people I know nothing about.
taman6886
Well-known member
That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. At this juncture, you have no credibility and your perspective about me is irrelevant to me. You are not going to rattle me that easily. Have a great day Henry.
henryv
Active member
I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.
Have a nice day y'all.
henryv
Active member
You are of course ignoring the public interest aspect of this.
Given that the product is marketed as non-androgenic, it is being sold to women. I would think that women considering buying this product would be grateful that someone has discovered it may contain androgenic compounds (which could cause virilization).
I would also think that those wishing to stay on the right side of the law would be grateful to find out that it may contain controlled substances.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
So you and PA are obviously close, when are you going to show us this report?
Liftergym33
Well-known member
Funny how PA brought this up, and showed zero evidence on this to be true.. but yet you sit here and accuse us and everyone else that were ignoring public interest.
you brought it to the public, back it up
and I'm saying this as a consumer.henryv
Active member
I wouldn't say we were close. I doubt we've ever been on the same continent.
I said that to taman6886 when he was saying I was "dishonourable" for bringing the matter up.
you brought it to the public, back it up
It's not that easy to separate motives (you as both a consumer and rep), as you guys have been pointing out (PA as both tester and competitor).
Surely the pressure should be on the manufacturer of the product to demonstrate that it contains what it says it does. This would hardly be the first time a bodybuilding product was found to contain something other than what is on the label.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
hardly the first time PA made something that contained stuff other then what was on the label... oh wait I forgot he is the watchdog and would NEVER do something like that right.. :smashfreakB:
Liftergym33
Well-known member
Seriously, don't church up your role here...were board reps, who can be replaced by the push of a keyboard button. do you honestly think any of the profits that TN makes goes into my pockets? LMAO..bottom line is you brought this up, so back it up. This is clearly what taman was saying, your spitting out venom on something that you know or haven't seen any bit of truth on, and yet your not even close to PA (As you said) but yet, you sit here and commend yourself for....Stellar performance my friend, and this is what builds you a stellar reputation you say? again I just pissed all over my leg!
henryv
Active member
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I believe I covered this topic when I said:
henryv said:
You'll note that this was the same distracting technique that NTBM/whatever the "sister company" is called tried when confronted with evidence that their Monsterdrol XT wasn't what they said it was. A technique that failed then and made them look very stupid in their "**** you PA thread" (since deleted), and will fail again if you insist on pushing the subject here.
henryv
Active member
This would appear to be some kind of personal insult, so I'll just pretend you didn't say it and instead kept your dignity intact.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
Do you agree with anything im writting? serioulsy...... a Lifter to Henry Question?
henryv
Active member
I agree that your rep benefits aren't directly linked to TN profits. I think that's about all I can agree with.
I'm not spitting venom. The rest of your diatribe seems to be an attempt to twist my words to present me in a bad light.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
Henry r you serious?
henryv
Active member
In the posts in this thread? Yeah.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
im speechless..............:roll:
henryv
Active member
Hopefully that means you'll stop posting in here soon.
Liftergym33
Well-known member
henryv
Active member
I'm actually enjoying having a conversation with you henry!
It seems to have been going
For a while now.
seccsi
Active member
This largely ignores what I said though. If people are going around saying a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does then proof is mandatory. Otherwise what is to stop owners/reps from saying this about all their competitors products? "Anabeta isn't what PES says it is, Titanium isn't what Athletix says it is, Flashover isn't what Omega says it is, etc." It would be generally chaos.
In my opinion the most damning thing you can say about a company is that what they are selling to consumers is not what consumers think it is. You don't have a problem with saying Taurus is lying about the contents of their product, yet you haven't seen any proof? I just think if someone was accusing you guys of the same thing without proof you might be a little upset.
Again, not trying to start any type of flame war and I could really care less who "wins" this battle...but as a consumer and supplement user I think I'm entitled to more than just rumor on something as serious as this accusation.
taman6886
Well-known member
Let me be clear here. It is not the issue of "bringing it up" that was dishonorable, it was the manner (un backed inuendo and "Don't hold me responsibile. I'm just saying" thing that IMO is "dishonorable." Then rather than come up with something to challenge the validity of my position you 1) Try to dismiss it as an Emotional Appeal (Heartwarming, I believe was the term you used), 2) Then you feigned being personally offended (at least I hope you were feigning, because if some one who holds no real meaning in your life describing your behavior in an unfavorable gets to you, then you have much bigger issues then WTF is in 7 Keto.) 3) I try to clarify that I was describing the behavior and not you personally and you "read between the lines" as you put it, being all offended. (Let me be perfectly clear, I some times describe my own behavior as being "*******ish" because it can be. Does that mean I think I am an *******? Nope, just my behavior can be. In that sense, I most certainly describe some one else as behaving like a slime ball and being weasel like and not be calling them a weasel or slime ball per se. As you noted, I don't know you. 4) Then you try to insult my intelligence by mocking the way I spelled "honour" which is laughable to me in that although no longer used in modern English, it is more than acceptable in olde English and there by technically correct. All of this grand illusion of misdirection (points 1-4) do absolutely nothing to invalidate my description of the way this has been handled nor defend your handling of it.
"I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.
Have a nice day y'all."
In this particular matter, yep. Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.
You seem to be implying that my wish for you to have a god day was insincere. I assure you, it was not. Why would it be. I hold no grudge against you. No internet spat is worth renting head space over. Just not worth it. I will take your well wishes with a positive attitude and thank you sir, for I intend to have a great day INDEED!
"I have no credibility? I think a lot of people would disagree with that view. You are certainly entitled to hold that opinion though.
Have a nice day y'all."
In this particular matter, yep. Because you have provided no evidence to back a serious accusation and seem content to engage in misdirection rather than to address the issues with your claims.
You seem to be implying that my wish for you to have a god day was insincere. I assure you, it was not. Why would it be. I hold no grudge against you. No internet spat is worth renting head space over. Just not worth it. I will take your well wishes with a positive attitude and thank you sir, for I intend to have a great day INDEED!
henryv
Active member
I wasn't mocking your spelling. I'm English, that's how we spell it. That's why I closed with the "Have a nice day y'all" in my best American accent.
henryv
Active member
You're right about this. I've made the same distinction in the past and had the recipient not understand the difference. It's more difficult to disseminate when you're on the receiving end.
henryv
Active member
I've addressed them as best I can given the constraints upon me. I would argue that the other posters have been the ones engaged in misdirection, and that mine have been clarifying.
bdcc
Legend
As Henry knows I have been interested in this type of product. I hadn't looked at Taurus as Genomyx are having stock arrive in the UK but it may take longer than I need as I have a photoshoot coming up so the Taurus spray could be in the running as Genomyx won't ship to a customer in England directly.
Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?
As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.
Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?
Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
Maybe it would clear the air if the banter was set aside and if someone explains the potential legal ramifications of each scenario?
As an interested consumer I would be interested in knowing the results. If the results cannot be declared by PA or EPharm rep without facing a possible lawsuit then of course they will not do it, even if an ideal world would met them.
Hypothetically could the person who sent the bottle to PA publish the results on here as they are a paying consumer with no obvious ulterior motive?
Just bringing some rational questions to the table to get to the bottom of this.
taman6886
Well-known member
LOL, nice! A sense of Humor! Good to see man!
And now I feel compelled to ask 2 questions. 1) Is it Henry the 5th then? and 2) Do you spell color (American version) COLOUR? Just curious, and yes I am being an ass! BTW, only people from the South and Texas use "Y'all". It is a very regional term, just FYI.
taman6886
Well-known member
Very good post BDCC!