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1,3 dimethylamylamine illegal?

swollen87

swollen87

Well-known member
found an interesting article by william llewellyn

ive used geranium before, and i love it... i just cant use it every day....

i choose to use it when i need it, when im going for a big lift, or certain times when i had bad sleep, or im just tired....

it seems this supplement is going to be banned sometime soon... just looking for some opinions/discussion about this... somewhere i even read that jacked 3d was going to be reformulated without 1,3


Industry On Alert: 1,3-Dimethylamylamine0
An article that appeared in Nutra Ingredients-USA this morning warns about potential FDA action and the illegal use of 1,3-dimethylamylamine in weight loss supplements. Popularized by industry figure Patrick Arnold (Ergopharm, Amp), dimethylamylamine is a moderate stimulant-based compound that appears to possess both lipolytic and mood altering effects. Many users have been reporting both notable fat loss and a pleasing effect on mental energy and state of mind. Over the past several years, dimethylamylamine containing supplements have become popular on the U.S. dietary supplement market. Arnold has always defended the sale of this substance based on the fact that it is an amino acid metabolite, and can be found naturally in geranium oil. The Nutra Ingredients article disagrees, claiming the supplement form is synthetic, and thus illegal for sale.

Dimethylamylamine products have been available over the counter for several years now, and we know of no solid FDA regulatory action having taken place against them. Though the ingredient hasn’t been shy of controversy, including a feature article warning about its potential dangers in the Washington Post a couple of years ago. The dangers never seemed to materialize, however, nor FDA action, so it is difficult to know what to make of this report. It does seem to be trigging an industry response though, and we hear talk that distributors may be dropping dimethylamylamine products unless they can be better substantiated as natural. Manufacturers should be on alert for potential marketing and regulatory issues with this ingredient.

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– William Llewellyn



do YOU think this is something i should buy in bulk and stock up on?

also, where is a good place to find banned lists or products under investigation by the fda?
 
this sucks.... every time we get something that works, its ripped from our lives
 
yay less freedom for us! [[sarcastic tone]]
 
i find it unnecessary to create a scare by questioning whether or not a product is going to become illegal based on this article. the only justification i could see for something like this becoming illegal would be if it caused some kind of problem or if people are abusing it. otherwise, what's the issue? stand up for your rights.
 
halninek said:
i find it unnecessary to create a scare by questioning whether or not a product is going to become illegal based on this article. the only justification i could see for something like this becoming illegal would be if it caused some kind of problem or if people are abusing it. otherwise, what's the issue? stand up for your rights.
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im not creating a scare, i posted an article bro

bottom line is, clearly, there is some ? to whether or not the product is safe.... personally i like it, but i can see how its addictive/possibly dangerous/anything patrick arnold makes popular is obviously gunna be looked at by the fda
 
I got slinky wang from 1,3 dimethyl in Jack3d :( once I stopped , a few days later I had my morning tent back :P
 
The push from FDA and legislation is going to question any synthetic substance. Like William stated it has to be proven that it is a natural ingredient and must be in a natural form. This is the case for all future supplements.
 
Highest dosage I got to was 2 scoops, everything was normal until the end of the 2nd week I believe. Kept on taking it for a few days , not knowing what the hell t he prob was.

So I did a search and apperantly this happens to quite a few people, discontiuned use of it and a few days later , I was back ..

Nothing against Jack3d cuz it was a great pre-wo drink.
 
halninek said:
i find it unnecessary to create a scare by questioning whether or not a product is going to become illegal based on this article. the only justification i could see for something like this becoming illegal would be if it caused some kind of problem or if people are abusing it. otherwise, what's the issue? stand up for your rights.
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I believe the reason why it is under investigation is to decide weather it is an naturally occuring substance or syntheiclly created. Under supplement laws you can only bottle and sell naturally occuring things (such as creatine, caffeine, etc) anything conjoured up needs approval from the FDA but since arent really watched to much by any regulatory committe alot of companies get away with selling illegal compounds. Abuse might bring it to the fore front but isnt whats gonna make it illegal. Ironicly though ephedera does comply with DSHEA yet is still illegal :think:

At least this my understanding of it

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bigbumpkin said:
so the future of supps is fish oil and ?
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it depends if our government decides to require FDA approval for supplements or not. As of now approval is only required for altered supplements anything that is naturally occuring is safe but there has been talks about this, they sort have died done now, but it may be hapening sometime just not at the present moment
 
halninek said:
i find it unnecessary to create a scare by questioning whether or not a product is going to become illegal based on this article. the only justification i could see for something like this becoming illegal would be if it caused some kind of problem or if people are abusing it. otherwise, what's the issue? stand up for your rights.
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I'm a firm believer of less government...however there are instances where I believe things should be regulated. Drugs for one. This is where people will argue, let stupid people be stupid, if they kill themselves it was their choice. That is too simplistic a view. Certain supplements shouldnt be sold to minors and some to people under a certain age, like 21 for some prohormones. If they wanted to become very regulatory, the government could institute Supplement/Drug Class Cards to be administered by Doctors saying, "This patient is medically clear to buy X Y Z". The problem is many companies have marketed things that are not as labeled and merely say "My Bad" and move on to the next product. I would hope the Supplement Market would regulate it's self; many good companies which actively discuss products on the boards, but many also lurk on the boards, release the shills and get topics/people removed from the board. Not this board, but you know the ones. A 16 year old kid who is stim intolerant and blackening out due to something like vasoconstriction in the brain or hyperventilation most likely doesnt have the wherewithal to know what to do in the situation and it could lead to personal injury of him/herself or another; that happening when you are driving can almost make your pants wet.

Hoepfully the need for the Gov/FDA wont need to step and an organization of companies can come together and start making some guidelines. Yeah it sucks when good product is yanked off the market.
 
If the industry won't self regulate the government will, eventually. It's already happened to Europe and to some extent in Canada. Moreover, making DHEA derivitives will only give the government the fuel it needs to control this wonderful product (if used properly).
 
Dang.....well it's time for me to buy a kilo of DMAA. I can get that sh!t on the cheap....only like $250. Imagine what I could do with 1000g.....haha.
 
JudoJosh said:
I believe the reason why it is under investigation is to decide weather it is an naturally occuring substance or syntheiclly created. Under supplement laws you can only bottle and sell naturally occuring things (such as creatine, caffeine, etc) anything conjoured up needs approval from the FDA but since arent really watched to much by any regulatory committe alot of companies get away with selling illegal compounds. Abuse might bring it to the fore front but isnt whats gonna make it illegal. Ironicly though ephedera does comply with DSHEA yet is still illegal :think:

At least this my understanding of it

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Methamphetamine was found to be a naturally occuring substance in a few studies by Texas A&M, but being a controlled substance overrides DSHEA.

Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine became class 5 controlled substances, which is why you have to go to the pharmacists counter to get the "good" version of Sudafed.
 
Methylhexaneamine's stimulant effects on the central nervous system have been found to be significantly less than amphetamines and ephedrine, and has a similar safety profile to caffeine.

The countries who are interested in banning it, are doing so because of it's use as a party supplement by kids looking to get high. Using that logic, most every OTC substance on the market could theoretically be banned so long as someone could get some kind of buzz from that product, regardless of how much of the substance one would have to ingest to get high.
 
mattingly said:
Methylhexaneamine's stimulant effects on the central nervous system have been found to be significantly less than amphetamines and ephedrine, and has a similar safety profile to caffeine.

The countries who are interested in banning it, are doing so because of it's use as a party supplement by kids looking to get high. Using that logic, most every OTC substance on the market could theoretically be banned so long as someone could get some kind of buzz from that product, regardless of how much of the substance one would have to ingest to get high.
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When I was in high school I remember being at parties and guys would be drinking cough syrup. I always thought it was stupid, lol. A few weeks ago I had a nasty cold and stopped at a walgreens to get some cold meds and they wouldn't sell me the family pack because I was to young. Really? I can carry a gun and make arrests but I can't buy the big bottle of cold meds till I'm 35? Good bless America but the priorities here are ****ed up...
 
StakedCop said:
When I was in high school I remember being at parties and guys would be drinking cough syrup. I always thought it was stupid, lol. A few weeks ago I had a nasty cold and stopped at a walgreens to get some cold meds and they wouldn't sell me the family pack because I was to young. Really? I can carry a gun and make arrests but I can't buy the big bottle of cold meds till I'm 35? Good bless America but the priorities here are ****ed up...
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Well I'd rather see them regulate it than ban it entirely...but then again it's usually a political battle more than anything else with the pharma companies pulling strings in the govt
 
Patrick Arnold had a recent blog post about it (geranamine in general)

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my favorite part is where he talks about how the one chemist said "The chemical structure is similar to amphetamines and ephedrine"

here they are
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EasyEJL said:
Patrick Arnold had a recent blog post about it (geranamine in general)

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my favorite part is where he talks about how the one chemist said "The chemical structure is similar to amphetamines and ephedrine"

here they are
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They don't look similar.....
 
syphon80 said:
I got slinky wang from 1,3 dimethyl in Jack3d :( once I stopped , a few days later I had my morning tent back :P
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were u taking advil? mixing ibuprofen with 1,3 along with a bunch of other stims can actually restrict veins/capillaries and even go as far as causing ED.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
They don't look similar.....
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According to the scientists without an agenda or a link to the gov't (or anyone else who wants to ban methylhexanamine), you are correct.

Methylhexanamine bears no structural similarity to amphetamine, nor the parent homologue to the amphetamine class phenethylamine. Methylhexanamine lacks the constitutive phenyl or benzene ring which is present in all phenethylamine derivatives, including all amphetamines. Further more, methylhexanamine does not possess a phenethylamine skeleton, which is the hallmark of amphetamines so it is chemically impossible to say that they are structurally related.

It's crazy how the gov't can get scientists to say virtually anything in their attempts to get supplements banned, regardless of what the real science is. If nothing is done to reverse this trend, I can see a time in the future when your only choices for bodybuilding supplements will be protein and multi vitamins.
 
Damn, if they ever announce ban on geranium I'm going to stock up big time, I looooove the overall mood effect it gives me, keeps me so calm for my second half of work.

Not to mention I just love the feeling while on it, love it so much that sometimes if I'm at home and just took one I could EASILY fall asleep on it, and have an absolute great nap, just due to overall feeling and soothing relaxation provided.

Love me some Geranium.
 
bla55 said:
Damn, if they ever announce ban on geranium I'm going to stock up big time, I looooove the overall mood effect it gives me, keeps me so calm for my second half of work.

Not to mention I just love the feeling while on it, love it so much that sometimes if I'm at home and just took one I could EASILY fall asleep on it, and have an absolute great nap, just due to overall feeling and soothing relaxation provided.

Love me some Geranium.
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Wow! I'm the total opposite. I'm a total stim junkie and can take in 400mg of caffeine for my night workout and fall asleep, but with 25mg of DMAA I'll stay up till 5am, no joke! :dunno:
 
I don't know what it is... It just relaxes me so much and gives me such a peace of mind that I have my best naps while on it...

Granted, they usually last for maybe half an hour to an hour but I get up reinvigorated!
 
I'm the same way. DMMA alone I think increases dopamine levels, not carrying over to norepinephrine/epinephrine right away. Do you get really vivid dreams when you do it?
 
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