My GH IGF1 SLIN TRT PCT/Bridge Cycle
- Thread starter edwitt
- Start date
edwitt
Well-known member
AICAR and GW1516
Who has used this
Ok so buddy has given me a bottle of what appear to be a miracle drug and although I can find this profile, I can find any first hand experience with this drug, if you have used would you share your experience ? Thank you
AICAR and GW1516 experiments suggest that these two drugs, also called exercise in a pill, might protect against gaining weight on a high-fat diet, which might make it useful for treating obesity.
Researchers have identified two drugs, AICAR and GW1516, that mimic many of the physiological effects of exercise. The drugs increase the ability of cells to burn fat and are the first compounds that have been shown to enhance exercise endurance.
Both AICAR and GW1516 can be given orally and work by genetically reprogramming muscle fibers so they use energy better and contract repeatedly without fatigue. In laboratory experiments, mice taking the drugs ran faster and longer than normal mice on treadmill tests. Animals that were given AICAR, one of the two drugs, ran 44 percent longer than untreated animals. The second compound, GW1516, had a more dramatic impact on endurance, but only when combined with exercise.
Ronald M. Evans, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator who led the study, said drugs that mimic exercise could offer potent protection against obesity and related metabolic disorders. They could also help counter the effects of devastating muscle-wasting diseases like muscular dystrophy. Evans and his colleagues, who are at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, published their findings on July 31, 2008, in an advance online publication in the journal Cell.
Concerned about the potential for abuse of the two performance-enhancing drugs AICAR and GW1516, Evans has also developed a test to detect the substances in the blood and urine of athletes who may be looking for way to gain an edge on the competition.
In 2004, Evans and his colleagues genetically engineered mice that had altered muscle composition and enough physical endurance to run twice as far as normal mice. These “marathon mice” had an innate resistance to weight gain, even when fed a high-fat diet. “We made these mice and they had low blood sugar, they resisted weight gain, they had low fats in their blood. They were much healthier animals,” Evans said. “And when we put them on a treadmill, the engineered mice ran twice as far than normal mice - they transformed into remarkable runners.”
The scientists achieved these effects by modifying a gene called PPAR-delta, a master regulator of numerous genes. Evans and his colleagues showed that by enhancing PPAR-delta's activity, they had shifted the genetic network in muscle cells to favor burning fat over sugar as their energy source. But the effects seen in the marathon mice were caused by a genetic manipulation that was present in their bodies as their muscles were developing. Evans's group began to wonder whether they could duplicate these effects by turning on PPAR-delta in adult mice.
“We had shown that we could pre-program muscle using genetic engineering. If you express this gene while the muscle is being formed, you can increase the amount of non-fatiguing muscle fibers,” Evans says. “But what about reprogramming in an adult? When all the muscles are in place, can you give a drug that washes over the muscle for a few hours at a time and reprograms existing muscle fibers? That's a very different question.”
PPAR-delta has long been an attractive drug target because of its central role in metabolism, so Evans and his colleagues had no shortage of chemical compounds available to test. They began by testing a compound called GW1516. They treated young adult mice with the drug for five weeks. “We measured gene changes and the muscles looked like they were responding, so we knew the drug was working.”
Thus, while fully expecting the drug to dramatically increase endurance - Evans says, “There was no change at all in running performance. Nothing — not even a percent.”
Surprised by this spectacular failure, Evans and his colleagues decided to try a different approach, based on real-life experience. “If you're out of shape - and most of us are - and you want to change, you have to do some exercise. The way we reprogram muscle in adults is by training.”
So the scientists subjected two groups of mice — one that received the drug and one that did not — to interval training. The mice ran for 30 minutes on a slow treadmill five days a week for a total of four weeks. At the end of the training period, all of the mice - regardless of whether they had received GW1516 - had improved their performance. Those that had received GW1516, however, ran 68 percent longer than those that had only done the exercise training. “The dramatic effect of the drug was stunning,” Evans said.
The scientists were intrigued by this synergistic interaction and wanted to know how exercise allowed the drug to work. One possibility was an enzyme called AMP kinase (AMPK). During exercise, cells burn ATP as their primary source of energy. In the process, they create a by-product called AMP. When cells sense the presence of AMP, they activate AMPK. Activation of AMPK creates more ATP for the cell to burn. AMPK also triggers changes that lower blood sugar, sensitize cells to insulin, enable cells to burn more fat, suppress inflammation, and otherwise influence metabolic pathways. This is one reason that exercise is so beneficial.
Evans's team found that in addition to replenishing the cell's energy stores, AMPK also assists PPAR-delta in activating its gene targets. “It hops onto PPAR-delta in the nucleus and turbo-charges its transcriptional activity,” Evans explained. “We think AMPK activity is the secret to allowing PPAR-delta drugs to work.”
The critical question was whether chemical activation of AMPK is sufficient to trick the muscle into thinking it has been exercised. The second drug, called AICAR, enabled them to answer that question. AICAR mimics AMP, Evans said, “so muscle thinks it's burning fat.” The researchers were encouraged when they found that when they gave the drug to mice, they activated many of the genes in muscle that are turned on by exercise.
After four weeks of treatment with AICAR, Evans and his colleagues once again challenged sedentary mice to run on the treadmill. They found that mice that had received AICAR were able to run 44 percent longer than untreated mice. “This is a drug that is like pharmacological exercise,” Evans says. “After four weeks of receiving the drug, the mice were behaving as if they'd been exercised.” In fact, he says, those that got the drug actually ran longer and further than animals that received exercise training.
The animals receiving AICAR improved their running performance and their ability to burn fat. None of these effects, however, were as strong as they were in the animals that received both exercise and activation of PPAR-delta via GW1516.
Evans said this indicates that the benefits are likely due to collaboration between cells' AMPK and PPAR-delta signaling pathways. The team's genetic analyses supported this hypothesis; they found that AICAR and GW1516 alone activated a subset of exercise-induced genes, but activating both pathways (by combining GW1516 with exercise) activated a larger group of genes. Many of those genes regulate metabolism and muscle remodeling. Evans and his colleagues called this the “endurance gene signature.”
Like exercise, AICAR and GW1516 trigger a variety of changes that contribute to muscles cells' improved endurance and ability to burn fat. These changes include an increase in mitochondria, the structures responsible for producing energy; a shift in metabolism that takes advantage of lipids as an energy source; and an increase in blood flow, which enables the steady delivery of fat to burn. While the scientists only examined the drugs' effects on muscle cells in this study, Evans says it is likely that they confer benefits on other systems impacted by exercise, such as the heart and lungs.
Based on his group's findings, Evans is optimistic about using small molecules that mimic exercise to treat and prevent a variety of common conditions. For example, the way in which AICAR and GW1516 transformed the muscle fibers of mice suggests they might help reverse the muscle frailty associated with aging or diseases like muscular dystrophy. “We have now created the potential for a really simple intervention in an area of major health problems for which there is no intervention,” he says.
More broadly, AICAR and GW1516 could offer the benefits of exercise to people who do not get enough. “Almost no one gets the recommended 40 minutes to an hour per day of exercise,” he says. “For this group of people, if there was a way to mimic exercise, it would make the quality of exercise that they do much more efficient. This might be enough to move people out of the `danger zone' toward a lower risk, healthier set point. By intervening early, you may forestall the emergence of more serious problems.”
Evans expects these types of drugs will be attractive to a variety of individuals. “If you like exercise, you like the idea of getting more bang for your buck,” he says of GW1516. “If you don't like exercise, you love the idea of getting the benefits from a pill,” as with AICAR. So, while Evans sees tremendous opportunities for health benefits from drugs that mimic exercise, he also sees serious potential for abuse.
“Drugs that improve health are not only going to be used by people who have medical problems. They may also be used by people who are healthy - or by athletes who want an edge,” said Evans. He noted that the sports world has long been aware of his lab's work demonstrating a link between PPAR-delta and endurance. What's more, GW1516 has a relatively simple chemical structure and can be synthesized easily. Evans anticipates that athletes will seek their own sources of the drug - if they haven't already.
Concerned about the potential for abuse, Evans thought it was important to develop a test that could detect whether the drug was being used as a performance-enhancing substance. With HHMI support, his group has created a highly sensitive test that uses mass spectrometry to detect the two drugs and their metabolic by-products in the blood or urine. While the test is very reliable in mice, Evans says that further analyses are needed to ensure that it is accurate in humans. Evans, HHMI and the World Anti-Doping Agency are now working to certify the detection system and make it available in time to retroactively test athletes who compete in the 2008 Olympics Submitted by Armen Hareyan
Who has used this
Ok so buddy has given me a bottle of what appear to be a miracle drug and although I can find this profile, I can find any first hand experience with this drug, if you have used would you share your experience ? Thank you
AICAR and GW1516 experiments suggest that these two drugs, also called exercise in a pill, might protect against gaining weight on a high-fat diet, which might make it useful for treating obesity.
Researchers have identified two drugs, AICAR and GW1516, that mimic many of the physiological effects of exercise. The drugs increase the ability of cells to burn fat and are the first compounds that have been shown to enhance exercise endurance.
Both AICAR and GW1516 can be given orally and work by genetically reprogramming muscle fibers so they use energy better and contract repeatedly without fatigue. In laboratory experiments, mice taking the drugs ran faster and longer than normal mice on treadmill tests. Animals that were given AICAR, one of the two drugs, ran 44 percent longer than untreated animals. The second compound, GW1516, had a more dramatic impact on endurance, but only when combined with exercise.
Ronald M. Evans, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator who led the study, said drugs that mimic exercise could offer potent protection against obesity and related metabolic disorders. They could also help counter the effects of devastating muscle-wasting diseases like muscular dystrophy. Evans and his colleagues, who are at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, published their findings on July 31, 2008, in an advance online publication in the journal Cell.
Concerned about the potential for abuse of the two performance-enhancing drugs AICAR and GW1516, Evans has also developed a test to detect the substances in the blood and urine of athletes who may be looking for way to gain an edge on the competition.
In 2004, Evans and his colleagues genetically engineered mice that had altered muscle composition and enough physical endurance to run twice as far as normal mice. These “marathon mice” had an innate resistance to weight gain, even when fed a high-fat diet. “We made these mice and they had low blood sugar, they resisted weight gain, they had low fats in their blood. They were much healthier animals,” Evans said. “And when we put them on a treadmill, the engineered mice ran twice as far than normal mice - they transformed into remarkable runners.”
The scientists achieved these effects by modifying a gene called PPAR-delta, a master regulator of numerous genes. Evans and his colleagues showed that by enhancing PPAR-delta's activity, they had shifted the genetic network in muscle cells to favor burning fat over sugar as their energy source. But the effects seen in the marathon mice were caused by a genetic manipulation that was present in their bodies as their muscles were developing. Evans's group began to wonder whether they could duplicate these effects by turning on PPAR-delta in adult mice.
“We had shown that we could pre-program muscle using genetic engineering. If you express this gene while the muscle is being formed, you can increase the amount of non-fatiguing muscle fibers,” Evans says. “But what about reprogramming in an adult? When all the muscles are in place, can you give a drug that washes over the muscle for a few hours at a time and reprograms existing muscle fibers? That's a very different question.”
PPAR-delta has long been an attractive drug target because of its central role in metabolism, so Evans and his colleagues had no shortage of chemical compounds available to test. They began by testing a compound called GW1516. They treated young adult mice with the drug for five weeks. “We measured gene changes and the muscles looked like they were responding, so we knew the drug was working.”
Thus, while fully expecting the drug to dramatically increase endurance - Evans says, “There was no change at all in running performance. Nothing — not even a percent.”
Surprised by this spectacular failure, Evans and his colleagues decided to try a different approach, based on real-life experience. “If you're out of shape - and most of us are - and you want to change, you have to do some exercise. The way we reprogram muscle in adults is by training.”
So the scientists subjected two groups of mice — one that received the drug and one that did not — to interval training. The mice ran for 30 minutes on a slow treadmill five days a week for a total of four weeks. At the end of the training period, all of the mice - regardless of whether they had received GW1516 - had improved their performance. Those that had received GW1516, however, ran 68 percent longer than those that had only done the exercise training. “The dramatic effect of the drug was stunning,” Evans said.
The scientists were intrigued by this synergistic interaction and wanted to know how exercise allowed the drug to work. One possibility was an enzyme called AMP kinase (AMPK). During exercise, cells burn ATP as their primary source of energy. In the process, they create a by-product called AMP. When cells sense the presence of AMP, they activate AMPK. Activation of AMPK creates more ATP for the cell to burn. AMPK also triggers changes that lower blood sugar, sensitize cells to insulin, enable cells to burn more fat, suppress inflammation, and otherwise influence metabolic pathways. This is one reason that exercise is so beneficial.
Evans's team found that in addition to replenishing the cell's energy stores, AMPK also assists PPAR-delta in activating its gene targets. “It hops onto PPAR-delta in the nucleus and turbo-charges its transcriptional activity,” Evans explained. “We think AMPK activity is the secret to allowing PPAR-delta drugs to work.”
The critical question was whether chemical activation of AMPK is sufficient to trick the muscle into thinking it has been exercised. The second drug, called AICAR, enabled them to answer that question. AICAR mimics AMP, Evans said, “so muscle thinks it's burning fat.” The researchers were encouraged when they found that when they gave the drug to mice, they activated many of the genes in muscle that are turned on by exercise.
After four weeks of treatment with AICAR, Evans and his colleagues once again challenged sedentary mice to run on the treadmill. They found that mice that had received AICAR were able to run 44 percent longer than untreated mice. “This is a drug that is like pharmacological exercise,” Evans says. “After four weeks of receiving the drug, the mice were behaving as if they'd been exercised.” In fact, he says, those that got the drug actually ran longer and further than animals that received exercise training.
The animals receiving AICAR improved their running performance and their ability to burn fat. None of these effects, however, were as strong as they were in the animals that received both exercise and activation of PPAR-delta via GW1516.
Evans said this indicates that the benefits are likely due to collaboration between cells' AMPK and PPAR-delta signaling pathways. The team's genetic analyses supported this hypothesis; they found that AICAR and GW1516 alone activated a subset of exercise-induced genes, but activating both pathways (by combining GW1516 with exercise) activated a larger group of genes. Many of those genes regulate metabolism and muscle remodeling. Evans and his colleagues called this the “endurance gene signature.”
Like exercise, AICAR and GW1516 trigger a variety of changes that contribute to muscles cells' improved endurance and ability to burn fat. These changes include an increase in mitochondria, the structures responsible for producing energy; a shift in metabolism that takes advantage of lipids as an energy source; and an increase in blood flow, which enables the steady delivery of fat to burn. While the scientists only examined the drugs' effects on muscle cells in this study, Evans says it is likely that they confer benefits on other systems impacted by exercise, such as the heart and lungs.
Based on his group's findings, Evans is optimistic about using small molecules that mimic exercise to treat and prevent a variety of common conditions. For example, the way in which AICAR and GW1516 transformed the muscle fibers of mice suggests they might help reverse the muscle frailty associated with aging or diseases like muscular dystrophy. “We have now created the potential for a really simple intervention in an area of major health problems for which there is no intervention,” he says.
More broadly, AICAR and GW1516 could offer the benefits of exercise to people who do not get enough. “Almost no one gets the recommended 40 minutes to an hour per day of exercise,” he says. “For this group of people, if there was a way to mimic exercise, it would make the quality of exercise that they do much more efficient. This might be enough to move people out of the `danger zone' toward a lower risk, healthier set point. By intervening early, you may forestall the emergence of more serious problems.”
Evans expects these types of drugs will be attractive to a variety of individuals. “If you like exercise, you like the idea of getting more bang for your buck,” he says of GW1516. “If you don't like exercise, you love the idea of getting the benefits from a pill,” as with AICAR. So, while Evans sees tremendous opportunities for health benefits from drugs that mimic exercise, he also sees serious potential for abuse.
“Drugs that improve health are not only going to be used by people who have medical problems. They may also be used by people who are healthy - or by athletes who want an edge,” said Evans. He noted that the sports world has long been aware of his lab's work demonstrating a link between PPAR-delta and endurance. What's more, GW1516 has a relatively simple chemical structure and can be synthesized easily. Evans anticipates that athletes will seek their own sources of the drug - if they haven't already.
Concerned about the potential for abuse, Evans thought it was important to develop a test that could detect whether the drug was being used as a performance-enhancing substance. With HHMI support, his group has created a highly sensitive test that uses mass spectrometry to detect the two drugs and their metabolic by-products in the blood or urine. While the test is very reliable in mice, Evans says that further analyses are needed to ensure that it is accurate in humans. Evans, HHMI and the World Anti-Doping Agency are now working to certify the detection system and make it available in time to retroactively test athletes who compete in the 2008 Olympics Submitted by Armen Hareyan
thundergod
Well-known member
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ED!!!!
:fest30:
arty: :fest06: :djparty:
Invalid Link Removed
:fest30:
arty: :fest06: :djparty:Invalid Link Removed
perico13
Banned
Jesus Ed I've never commented on you threads, though I've followed them because I've never felt like I had something worthy to bring to the table. Yet I'd like to say happy birthday (what a wonderful meal) and you have some fantastic friends mate! Congrats and thanks for always creatively and safely pushing the envelope. You sir are an inspiration to us all
ex-tightend83
Well-known member
Happy Birthday Ed!
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Happy Birthday Ed.
SouthernCharm
Well-known member
Happy Birthday Edwitt!!!
edwitt
Well-known member
ty mate
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ED!!!!
:fest30:
Invalid Link Removed
yummy but where are my Versa Pros
U r welcome any time mate and ask away anything anytime :nana:
cheers
thanks man
thanks
Thanks man,
No noticeable libido difference on 200mg Watson Test Cyp
Thunder ?
edwitt
Well-known member
Coolazice
Active member
Forget someone? :think: And I said it first too
uppy_dog_eyes: I guess that's what I get for not posting very often lately.
edwitt
Well-known member
Forget someone? :think: And I said it first too
Oops
How could i forget Collazice
sorry brother BIG Thank-You
:icon_lol:
Day 23
Off to smash my chest and triceps
More later but vascularity is looking incredible and their is a noticable increase in the thickness of my veins, forearms look like a road-map and when working out veins are popping out all over my shoulders and in my back also
Lets go check the stregnth is still there a 212lbs and 31.8" waist :swordfight:
edwitt
Well-known member
Operation “Stay Swole” Day 26
Weight 212
waist 31.7
BP 118/63
Took 6us HGH last night in the bad shoulder
This morning took all my normal Pre WO supps
1cc of Helios 20 minutes prior to any cardio sessions
50mg Proviron ED and Test Cyp 200mg EW
WO days only
ASGT 1 scoops
PW 1 1/2 scoops
NO Infuse
4 Ibuprofen (chest/shoulder days only)
Well just had a very disappointing lift chest/tris
My 3 Heavy bench sets were off dramatically
375 x 5 365 x 4
365 x 5 365 x 4
365 x 5 365 x2
Everything else was off too, i was expecting some loss of strength but this was quite a dramatic drop in just 5 days.... Hopefully i just had a bad day and can get some of this back next time out so next chest session will definitely be real bench mark of where im at in my unconventional PCT
Libido remains great, vascularity and thickness of veins is improving significantly mass is unchanged
Here to help via PM or post here any questions, criticisms or concerns
Weight 212
waist 31.7
BP 118/63
Took 6us HGH last night in the bad shoulder
This morning took all my normal Pre WO supps
1cc of Helios 20 minutes prior to any cardio sessions
50mg Proviron ED and Test Cyp 200mg EW
WO days only
ASGT 1 scoops
PW 1 1/2 scoops
NO Infuse
4 Ibuprofen (chest/shoulder days only)
Well just had a very disappointing lift chest/tris
My 3 Heavy bench sets were off dramatically
375 x 5 365 x 4
365 x 5 365 x 4
365 x 5 365 x2
Everything else was off too, i was expecting some loss of strength but this was quite a dramatic drop in just 5 days.... Hopefully i just had a bad day and can get some of this back next time out so next chest session will definitely be real bench mark of where im at in my unconventional PCT
Libido remains great, vascularity and thickness of veins is improving significantly mass is unchanged
Here to help via PM or post here any questions, criticisms or concerns
oufinny
Well-known member
Take it easy with the slin man, get you some sugar!
8thangel
New member
+1... be CAREFUL, if you don't have them already make sure you have some glucose tabs and take them with you like your AMEX card... "Don't leave home without it!"
If you start to feel ANY low blood sugar symptoms whatsoever, pop a couple of em and see how you feel if no better, a couple more. Rinse and repeat till back to normal.
You may even re-evaluate your doses... Just sayin. I know you're well studied but I don't think you can be too careful in this type of instance.
edwitt
Well-known member
thats exactly what i did and it cleared up in about 20 minutes,
I have glucose shots from Wallgreens, raisins and sugar bombs that i made myself
Was surprised however as this is the first time really had this and it was 8 hours after an IM inj
gwls
Well-known member
Mate, I know I've said this before but with my experience with diabetics, sometimes there is no clear rhyme nor reason as to why sugar lows can happen! There are sooo many contributing factors in this regard and with your hectic schedule keeping the balance will be just as difficult, if not more so, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that simple things like stress and a common cold can play havoc...
In addition to the glucose tabs, etc which I know you carry you really need to start carrying and religiously using your blood glucose monitor, IMO prevention is better than cure you should be testing every couple of hours, particulary before eating and within the hour afterwards..
The blurred vision is a scary side, and to my knowledge insulin related blindness and diabetic comas cam strike pretty quickly, I'm glad the sugar load took care of it quickly but now that you know that 8hrs afterwards you felt the side, you can learn from this episode. I reckon your blood sugar was low for probably quite a while before you got the blurred vision
Safe not sorry, everyone on this board loves the knowledge, research & dedication you bring to this board BUT absolutely none of us want to see you push the envelope too far... Simple tests could prevent major issues... TAKE CARE BROSKI!!!
even Keith Richards has his bad days,.. Glad all ok now!
-Gary
In addition to the glucose tabs, etc which I know you carry you really need to start carrying and religiously using your blood glucose monitor, IMO prevention is better than cure you should be testing every couple of hours, particulary before eating and within the hour afterwards..
The blurred vision is a scary side, and to my knowledge insulin related blindness and diabetic comas cam strike pretty quickly, I'm glad the sugar load took care of it quickly but now that you know that 8hrs afterwards you felt the side, you can learn from this episode. I reckon your blood sugar was low for probably quite a while before you got the blurred vision
Safe not sorry, everyone on this board loves the knowledge, research & dedication you bring to this board BUT absolutely none of us want to see you push the envelope too far... Simple tests could prevent major issues... TAKE CARE BROSKI!!!
even Keith Richards has his bad days,.. Glad all ok now!
-Gary
edwitt
Well-known member
REST
Day 27 and 28
25ius Slin with breakfast
Cardio x 2 @ 45 mins
Saturday - run
Sunday - Spinning pinned 30mcg IGF in calves and banged out few sets of calf rasies after spinning
T3 50mcg and 1cc Icy 20 mins pre cardio
Mass/Weight is constant and im @ about 9%bf i really cant wait to get my Mexico vacation over and done with and start my bulk, its been 10 months of eating on point with next to no cheats, so my bulk will consist of one month of eating whatever i like (i dont eat sugar or candy ever) will just be a lot more carbs
Then ill reign thing in and revert to back to my current diet but ill add 1 cup of oats to meals 4 & 5 take thing from there
Invalid Link Removed
Here to help via PM or post here any questions, criticisms or concerns
Day 27 and 28
25ius Slin with breakfast
Cardio x 2 @ 45 mins
Saturday - run
Sunday - Spinning pinned 30mcg IGF in calves and banged out few sets of calf rasies after spinning
T3 50mcg and 1cc Icy 20 mins pre cardio
Mass/Weight is constant and im @ about 9%bf i really cant wait to get my Mexico vacation over and done with and start my bulk, its been 10 months of eating on point with next to no cheats, so my bulk will consist of one month of eating whatever i like (i dont eat sugar or candy ever) will just be a lot more carbs
Then ill reign thing in and revert to back to my current diet but ill add 1 cup of oats to meals 4 & 5 take thing from there
Invalid Link Removed
Here to help via PM or post here any questions, criticisms or concerns
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
Your next bulk is gonna be very interesting man.
I get too paranoid to do any cardio in PCT... too scared of burning any calories. Cardio in PCT works for ya Ed?
I get too paranoid to do any cardio in PCT... too scared of burning any calories. Cardio in PCT works for ya Ed?
edwitt
Well-known member
I would have never done so in the past but I'm cruising bro 200mg Watson Test Cyp libido still rages absolutely unchanged, I experience no shut down @ 200 mg just keep on trucking
I.think TG, TIM and NO's can confirm this
thundergod
Well-known member
ZamaMan
Banned
I would have never done so in the past but I'm cruising bro 200mg Watson Test Cyp libido still rages absolutely unchanged, I experience no shut down @ 200 mg just keep on trucking
Wait I'm confused... You saying you don't think yourshut down I terms of htpa while cruising?
Or did you just mean you don't have to experiance the effects of pct like us poor saps.
edwitt
Well-known member
Maybe i wasnt clear
I know im not shutdown
whole point of cruisingYea not really PCT at all just reducing the juice to bare minimum so that my receptors get a chance to reset until the next blast
Hoping 3 months total, i will get blood drawn the 1st of December
SouthernCharm
Well-known member
wow man reading the blurry vision in the post above has got me deathly afraid of insulin use lol... youre a brave man ed! lol
bezoe
Well-known member
big x2
SouthernCharm
Well-known member
yeah solid b day present... lol
Take em out of the package and bend em and twist em and sh1t cuz to me they felt funny until they got a little broken in. They work from the get go im just sayin lol
Take em out of the package and bend em and twist em and sh1t cuz to me they felt funny until they got a little broken in. They work from the get go im just sayin lol
edwitt
Well-known member
LOL
thats exactly what ive been doing TG told me they get better and better as they get broken in, i doubt ill take them off for next 12 hours
ZamaMan
Banned
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME
Invalid Link Removed
and guess what its back day tomorrow
*****.......... Lol nah just busting your balls =]. I got some too but don't need them at the moment I figure if in can't grip 400lbs raw than i suck. Haha but once I start biting mans weight I may have to start using them again.
Which excercise were you having trouble gripping?
ZamaMan
Banned
well I've never held 400 but have done 395xlike 8 but those were only rack deadlifts though so the bar started at the bottom of my knees. So off the floor it would be a little harder, doing it with rows would be much harder since you can regrip. I was using straps for awhile but my grip felt week but after a couple months of going raw my grip feels much stronger. Now 110lb DB feel effortless to hold.
Though once I start moving around a mans weight like Ed over here I'll need the straps. 2 years buddy!!!! I'm comming for you!! =]
edwitt
Well-known member
thundergod
Well-known member
Looking sliced and diced mate!! Good stuff. :head:
ZamaMan
Banned
Wow looking awesome man!!!! What's the wife say about the new six pack? I can't wait till I got one for mine to enjoy.
SouthernCharm
Well-known member
lookin ripped bro