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Why is AM still on the arginine bandwagon?

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glycerol is awesome, my pumps will last for like 2 hours after then i will piss a gallon of water out for the next few hours lol.

poison, that long post reminded me too much of my last anatomy test :'( we had to memorize every single detail of muscle contraction/relaxion starting from the neuron sending the action potential.
 
is there any other supp besides hemavol that has ingredients to actually increase NO
 
rochabp said:
is there any other supp besides hemavol that has ingredients to actually increase NO
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Yes, GPLC and Nitrate products show promise in regards to this

PS..I agree some people do tend to see increased pumps/vascularity on Arginine based products but I think iForce's point is that the marketing hype of it being a Nitric Oxide increasing ingredient is BS. So if it still gives you what you are looking for then keep on using it :D
 
poison said:
I agree arginine is worthless from a size, strength, or performance standpoint. However, regardless of studies, it unequivically does make users look bigger and more vascular. You just can't debate that. No, it doesn't lower lactic acid or speed waste removel from the muscles, as some sources say. It's purely cosmetic. Whether that pump is from some insulin effect, gh effect, or otherwise, I have no idea.

I don't look for it, but if a product I use has it, like RagNORok or rpm, well that's fine, I'll enjoy the sweet pumps. :D I don't see any downside to its use. Especially if, indeed, it doesn't raise NO, which would mean there's no danger from elevated free radical levels. ;)
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Since w hen did gh and slin give you a pump. Lifitng heavy will give you a pump. I won't take arginine endless its in my prework out product with GPLC. I only take GPLC for NO.
 
poison said:
I agree arginine is worthless from a size, strength, or performance standpoint. However, regardless of studies, it unequivically does make users look bigger and more vascular. You just can't debate that. No, it doesn't lower lactic acid or speed waste removel from the muscles, as some sources say. It's purely cosmetic. Whether that pump is from some insulin effect, gh effect, or otherwise, I have no idea.

I don't look for it, but if a product I use has it, like RagNORok or rpm, well that's fine, I'll enjoy the sweet pumps. :D I don't see any downside to its use. Especially if, indeed, it doesn't raise NO, which would mean there's no danger from elevated free radical levels. ;)
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I doubt taking arginine has ANY effect on the pumps you get... just my opinion

dop you take it with ornithine, norvaline, or anything else?

Im jus asking because the only time i get something out of arginine is when taken with somerthing else. I have TONS of bulk powders so ive tried like every combination you can think of haha
 
stopstalking said:
anyone know what it is in that causes such great pumps if it is not the argine
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You're feeling a "pump" from the arginine due to it actually constricting blood vessels.

The pump you feel is only a feeling that in no way is facilitating growth. Only true NO products provide both huge pumps + growth
 
iForce said:
You're feeling a "pump" from the arginine due to it actually constricting blood vessels.
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.

Not trying to call you out or efight, but please, i'd love to see an explaination of how this occurs? Studies? Something?
 
iForce Dave said:
I doubt taking arginine has ANY effect on the pumps you get... just my opinion

dop you take it with ornithine, norvaline, or anything else?

Im jus asking because the only time i get something out of arginine is when taken with somerthing else. I have TONS of bulk powders so ive tried like every combination you can think of haha
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I've taken pure aakg several times, sure. I've used in in every conceivable combination, and bottom line is it increases pumps any way its used. I look markedly bigger when I take it chronically, and smaller when I stop.
 
Arginine is insulinogenic and further potentiates glucose-induce insulin release. Who cares if doesn't impact eNos? An insulin-pump is still a pump, and we all know the good that insulin elicits around a workout.

It's like how ZMA gets bashed for not raising Test. Who the hell cares? There are so fricking many enzymatic processes that really upon zinc and mag that to disregard their value because they don't have one supposed effect is shortsighted.
 
Resolve said:
Arginine is insulinogenic and further potentiates glucose-induce insulin release. Who cares if doesn't impact eNos? An insulin-pump is still a pump, and we all know the good that insulin elicits around a workout.

It's like how ZMA gets bashed for not raising Test. Who the hell cares? There are so fricking many enzymatic processes that really upon zinc and mag that to disregard their value because they don't have one supposed effect is shortsighted.
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Exactly....just because it doesnt increase NO doesnt mean it doesnt give a pump
 
iForce said:
Why not use agmatine then? That increases both no and insulin response :)
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Most of the research on agmatine was pretty old last I recall. Got anything current? I'm using agmatine right now fwiw.

iForce said:
What good is a pump if it doesn't provide any benefits?
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Ask Hany Rambod if you think a pump in it of itself does not provide benefits...
 
iForce said:
Why not use agmatine then? That increases both no and insulin response :)
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Because I got less from agmantine than I do from arginine. and agmantine safety is an interesting subject. dinoii had a great writeup, and i've seen the argument back and forth. neither side convinced me it was correct.
 
stopstalking said:
anyone know what it is in that causes such great pumps if it is not the argine
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Arachidonic Acid is pretty commonly associated with enhanced pumps. Do you notice the great pumps each time you take Hemoadraulix or was it after you had been taking it for a while?
 
iForce said:
Why not use agmatine then? That increases both no and insulin response :)
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Arginine works better for me still, after numerous tests on myself

iForce said:
What good is a pump if it doesn't provide any benefits?
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It does provide benefits...

poison said:
Because I got less from agmantine than I do from arginine. and agmantine safety is an interesting subject. dinoii had a great writeup, and i've seen the argument back and forth. neither side convinced me it was correct.
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Same here

Resolve said:
You're telling me that insulin provides no benefits?

I don't use Agmatine because of it's higher price-point. And I don't care if I ellicit NO synthesis or not. Insulin is plenty effective on it own.
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Yup
 
Eric160 said:
i used nanox9 by mussle tech and it was a blend of 4 Different forms of arginine and got such a pump my skin was bright red and arms felt like they were gonna pop and that was before i even started working out what else does this but NO. im not trying to boost the product either i hate muscle tech
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lol good one
 
There is a new study out that may tip the scales

Arginine and ornithine supplementation increases growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 serum levels after heavy-resistance exercise in strength-trained athletes.

Abstract

This placebo-controlled double-blind study was designed to investigate the effect of arginine and ornithine (arg and orn) supplementation during 3-week heavy-resistance training on serum growth hormone/insulin-like growth factor-1/insulin-like growth factor-binding protein 3 (GH/IGF-1/IGFBP-3), testosterone, cortisol, and insulin levels in experienced strength-trained athletes. The subjects were randomly divided between a placebo group (n = 8) and the l-Arg/l-Orn-supplemented group (n = 9), and performed pre and posttraining standard exercise tests with the same absolute load, which consisted of the same exercise schedule as that applied in the training process. Fasting blood samples were obtained at rest, 2 minutes after the cessation of the strength exercise protocol, and after 1 hour of recovery. The resting concentrations of the investigated hormones and IGFBP-3 did not differ significantly between the study groups. In response to exercise test, all the hormones were elevated (p < 0.05) at both time points. Significant increases (p < 0.05) were observed in both GH and IGF-1 serum levels after arg and orn supplementation at both time points, whereas a significant decrease was seen in IGFBP-3 protein during the recovery period. Because there was no between-group difference in the remaining hormone levels, it appears that the GH/IGF-1/IGFBP-3 complex may be the major player in muscle tissue response to short-term resistance training after arg and orn supplementation.
 
Eric160 said:
i used nanox9 by mussle tech and it was a blend of 4 Different forms of arginine and got such a pump my skin was bright red and arms felt like they were gonna pop and that was before i even started working out what else does this but NO. im not trying to boost the product either i hate muscle tech
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The bright red skin would be due to the niacin flush you got after taking the product. Were you feeling a burning/tingling sensation through your body as well? That would also be attributed to the niacin. Tried the product you're mentioning via samples and the effects from the niacin had me freaked out so bad I was too worried to lift, lol.
 
MBSowards said:
Arachidonic Acid is pretty commonly associated with enhanced pumps. Do you notice the great pumps each time you take Hemoadraulix or was it after you had been taking it for a while?
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actually i felt hemodraulix very well on 1st dose. and unlike a lot of pump products it gets better over time. i have a bottle of AE2 on it's way so i can compare how big a role the AA plays on the great results i get from hemodraulix.

AE2 is just the arginine, with no sesamin/beta alanine/AA.

all i know is hemodraulix is a great product that works really well.
 
thebigt said:
actually i felt hemodraulix very well on 1st dose. and unlike a lot of pump products it gets better over time. i have a bottle of AE2 on it's way so i can compare how big a role the AA plays on the great results i get from hemodraulix.

AE2 is just the arginine, with no sesamin/beta alanine/AA.

all i know is hemodraulix is a great product that works really well.
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I am pretty sure I have had samples of it before and I agree that it worked pretty well.
 
ive used agmatine,arginine and gplc and all gave me great pump but arginocarn took it to another level for me.
 
idk this is weird i've heard about the studies on arginine for a while....I gotten free bottles of Nano x9....that i wouldnt buy or endorse....i just got a few for free...and if i take them 20 min before i have sex my erections come much quicker and last longer....so it really doesnt dialate ur vessels at all? im in no way defending arginine ....idk i always thought it was good but apparently im crazy
 
MBSowards said:
Arachidonic Acid is pretty commonly associated with enhanced pumps. Do you notice the great pumps each time you take Hemoadraulix or was it after you had been taking it for a while?
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I had crazy pumps with my first dose. And they keep getting better. The pumps remind of of the ones I got on a havoc.trenadrol run a few yrs back
 
Better spermz lulz

Taken from the following text - Principles of Orthomolecularism By R. A. S. Hemat[/SIZE]

[COLOR*********]"There is a direct correlation between semen carnitine content and sperm motility. There is a positive correlation between free L-Carnitine and both sperm count and the number of motile sperm/ml. 3g/day of oral L-Carnitine for 4 months would have a positive effect on sperm motility, and increases total number of spermatozoa per ejaculate. Arginine is a precursor to the synthesis of putrescine, spermidine, and spermine, which are thought to be essential to sperm motility. 4g/day oral arginine for 3 months, or 80ml of a 10% arginine HCL solution for 6 months have a significant effect on sperm count and motility (74%) without any side effects."
[/COLOR]
 
iForce Dave said:
I doubt taking arginine has ANY effect on the pumps you get... just my opinion

dop you take it with ornithine, norvaline, or anything else?

Im jus asking because the only time i get something out of arginine is when taken with somerthing else. I have TONS of bulk powders so ive tried like every combination you can think of haha
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That cannot possibly be true 100%, the part about it not causing pumps.

Here is why I type this...

You take an individual, such as myself, whom never gets a pump from lifting and you take 4gms of arg, on the very next work out, you have severe pumps...now, consider the fact that it is just Arg and nothing else, unless the Arg is spiked/tainted with something else.

So, it's not really possible to say that Arg alone cannot produce pumps. Yes, some people get pumps regardless, but you have those that have none or very little. So, in that respect, it does produce pumps in some individuals. It ESPECIALLY produces pumps in people whom have used very little supplementation of other products or whom have abstained from using supplements for a year or more.

For instance: (years ago), I could squat and not get a pump in my quads, glutes or hammies. It didn't matter if I hit 60% for 15x or 90% for 4x or 5 sets or 8 sets, never a noticeable pump...with Arg, I would get pumps that locked my legs up. So, in that regards, it does do "something"; however, I will agree that it is useless as a muscle/strength builder. It is purely cosmetic alone.
 
iForce said:
You're feeling a "pump" from the arginine due to it actually constricting blood vessels.

The pump you feel is only a feeling that in no way is facilitating growth. Only true NO products provide both huge pumps + growth
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Im not really sure I am following you thus far. You have stated in this thread, on a few occasions, that it does not give you any type of effect and not even a cosmetic "pump", yet you are saying that the "pump" he feels is only cosmetic and no growth (i agree there 100%) at all.

How can it be neither or both? Which is it?
 
Or, are you saying that it is not really giving you a "pump" by definition because it only "constricts blood vessels", so by definition, it is not a "pump" per se but just a feeling of the pump.
 
iForce said:
To the poster just above me, arginine will provide a pump, but it will NOT dilate blood vessels...actually the opposite. Arginine pre-wo is the biggest scam this industry has ever fell for.

A close second is the CEE scam :)
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I agree with this!
I use arginine on myself and my clients, but before sleep. 4 to 7 grams should do :)
 
MBSowards said:
I am pretty sure I have had samples of it before and I agree that it worked pretty well.
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for the sake of this thread, i can't say how much the arginine has to do with the effectiveness of hemodraulix, and how much is the AA/BA.

my last order with axis i ordered AE2-just the arginine, for comparison.
 
thebigt said:
for the sake of this thread, i can't say how much the arginine has to do with the effectiveness of hemodraulix, and how much is the AA/BA.

my last order with axis i ordered AE2-just the arginine, for comparison.
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Sounds good man, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I have no doubt that arginine is doing something for people (obviously everyone who's ever taken arginine isn't lying) but I am not sure that what it is doing is beneficial or not.

A think a lot of the good results people have with preworkout products can be attributed to the caffeine more than the rest of the ingredients. If it gives you more energy and you have 30 days of better lifts because of that, your results will be better.
 
I have to wonder about this thread, too many times I seen that arginine changes to nitric oxide then the next post says it constricts blood vessels. There are lots of articles including the mayo clinic that says arginine is a vasodialator. I'd like to hear more on this subject.
 
wastedwhiteboy2 said:
I have to wonder about this thread, too many times I seen that arginine changes to nitric oxide then the next post says it constricts blood vessels. There are lots of articles including the mayo clinic that says arginine is a vasodialator. I'd like to hear more on this subject.
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You tell me who you believe.. the Mayo Clinic, or some guy behind a screen name?
 
Lol


Arginine in the body DOES convert to NO, however ORAL consumption does not equate to higher arginine stores in the body, yet citrulline malate DOES.


Read up on the arginase enzyme for more proof...
 
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