Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Superdrol Liqua-Vade...

ImJ2x said:
Ooh, ooh -- how about a separate liqua vade product with 4-DHEA and formestane? It would stack great with 1-T. You'd have 1AD and 4AD, and the form would handle any aromitization issues from the DHEA (in 1-T) and 4AD. And (with DHEA, 4AD, and formestane), alpha maleness/libido would go through the roof.
It would also stack great with your SDlv, and any other cycles with libido or lethargy or gyno concerns (which pretty much covers all cycles, lol). Call it 4-T, and give me a few free bottles. Score.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we'd probably just release the 4-AD by itself so people could tailor its use. Its really a pretty cool steroid... very safe.

-Eric
 
FNG said:
Explain then...
Click to expand...

Liquid products suspend superdrol in a solution by using solvents that have similar polarity to superdrol. A solvent that is non polar will cause SD to dissolve when added into a solution. Most hormones are non polar molecules, the reason they are suspended in alcohol(s) is because alcohol(s) are also non polar, so the hormone readily dissolves (and that whole sterile thing too:)).

Now, the environment of the stomach is very polar. It has to be, because HCl is polar, and without a polar environment/solvents you'd end up with solid hydrochloride instead of liquid hydrochloric acid, which would raise pH (lesser amount of free H+ ions) and leave us with one hell of an issue in terms of digesting foods.

In a non polar solvent (what is doing the dissolving), a polar solute (what is being dissolved) precipitates as a solid. The point? Like dissolves like. A polar substance dissolves in a polar solution, and vice versa. A polar solute does not dissolve in a non polar solvent, and a non polar solute does not dissolve in a polar solute.

So, while superdrol as liquid looks and sounds cool, it really doesn't matter. When it enters a polar environment (the stomach), the superdrol molecules precipitate out and forms a solid. You could take a liquid superdrol product, and dump it into water, and stir, and the superdrol would precipitate out to a solid, and you'd see exactly what I'm talking about.

I used to do something similar with Nolva (non-polar) from research suppliers to see how much Nolva had actually been dissolved into the vial. If you add it to water (polar), it precipitates out, and you can extract the solid, dry it, and weigh the stuff out to see if you got your moneys worth.

At the end of the day, your gonna get the same effect by taking capsules.
 
chasinSKURT said:
Liquid products suspend superdrol in a solution by using solvents that have similar polarity to superdrol. A solvent that is non polar will cause SD to dissolve when added into a solution. Most hormones are non polar molecules, the reason they are suspended in alcohol(s) is because alcohol(s) are also non polar, so the hormone readily dissolves (and that whole sterile thing too:)).

Now, the environment of the stomach is very polar. It has to be, because HCl is polar, and without a polar environment/solvents you'd end up with solid hydrochloride instead of liquid hydrochloric acid, which would raise pH (lesser amount of free H+ ions) and leave us with one hell of an issue in terms of digesting foods.

In a non polar solvent (what is doing the dissolving), a polar solute (what is being dissolved) precipitates as a solid. The point? Like dissolves like. A polar substance dissolves in a polar solution, and vice versa. A polar solute does not dissolve in a non polar solvent, and a non polar solute does not dissolve in a polar solute.

So, while superdrol as liquid looks and sounds cool, it really doesn't matter. When it enters a polar environment (the stomach), the superdrol molecules precipitate out and forms a solid. You could take a liquid superdrol product, and dump it into water, and stir, and the superdrol would precipitate out to a solid, and you'd see exactly what I'm talking about.

I used to do something similar with Nolva (non-polar) from research suppliers to see how much Nolva had actually been dissolved into the vial. If you add it to water (polar), it precipitates out, and you can extract the solid, dry it, and weigh the stuff out to see if you got your moneys worth.

At the end of the day, your gonna get the same effect by taking capsules.
Click to expand...

What about the amount that is absorbed sublingually? Also, like I said earlier take away the liqua vade and it will still be better than most superdrol clones because Primordial Performance always uses high quality compounds and doses it exactly as advertised.
 
"Yes, ours will be cheaper per mg than any other source.

-Eric"

and not to mention LV technology gets 2-3x better absorption so you can dose lower.


Whats the self life on SD, and LV products?
 
Mikey851 said:
What about the amount that is absorbed sublingually?
Click to expand...

What about it? Transmucosal delivery is used to either a) improve drug delivery or b) deliver a drug when a patient cannot orally be administered the drug (vomiting, unconscious, etc.). The success of this route is dependent upon a variety of factors including the concentration of the drug, vehicle of drug delivery, mucosal contact time, venous drainage of the mucosal tissues (of which mucosal tissue has ample blood supply), degree of the drug's ionization and the pH of the absorption site, size of the drug molecule, and lipid solubility.

Being that 17a molecules have no problems being absorbed orally, I see no reason why transmucosal delivery would yield better results or ever be considered for administration of 17a drugs. There was a study done in 2004 using a buccal testosterone tablets enhanced with ingredients to aid in transmucosal administration comparing bioavailability to oral test und. The study showed success using the buccal testosterone preparation over oral test und, but other studies using methyltestosterone suggest that 17a oral testosterone is superior to the buccal testosterone tabs in terms of bioavailability.

When all is said and done, most of the time (99%) sublingual delivery is just another ploy to make consumers think they are buying a superior product.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!

Also, like I said earlier take away the liqua vade and it will still be better than most superdrol clones because Primordial Performance always uses high quality compounds and doses it exactly as advertised.
Click to expand...

Says who? I hope that that is in fact true, but I've never seen any 3rd party testing of a PP product. Being the PH's aren't DSHEA compliant, I doubt PP is producing these products in cGMP facilities. I usually post over at the other forum, their products don't get a ton of attention over there, so this is really the first I've seen anyone mention them as having stringent QC measures in place. Their berry product does interest me though for overall health.

stxnas said:
Even if it is (not that I'm saying it is)...see below ;)
Click to expand...

It may be the lowest price mg per mg of liquid solutions... but I'd be surprised if they can manufacturer for less than companies using capsules can.

qwerty33 said:
and not to mention LV technology gets 2-3x better absorption so you can dose lower.
Click to expand...

Any scientific evidence showing this "LV technology" is actually effective? I've never heard of it, nor do I have any idea what it entails... but if it's just another "liquid ph's are superior" campaign, then I beg to differ.

Whats the self life on SD, and LV products?
Click to expand...

There have never been any studies done in regards to the kinetics of superdrol (which would definitively answer that question). Makes sense really... the scientific community doesn't give a fuuu. BUT, shelf life of SD will undoubtably be shorter when prepared as a solution vs powder.
 
I'm just basing my comment about quality ingrediants and dosages on the feedback of their products. The Testosterone Recovery Stack worked really well for me as proven by labwork. I was on TRT but stopped and after about 1 year off of it I got my T levels checked and they were at around 150. I used the TRS stack and got my levels checked and they had risen to 500 and I felt great.

Another one of their products which has gotten good reviews is their pre workout supplement. It is pricey but from what I understand the ingrediants they used in it are not known to work very well unless they are dosed properly and are of high quality.

Also, I rarely see bad reviews on their products. Usually when products are priced high like some of PPs are you will see alot of bad reviews claiming that the product did not live up to it's price. This does not seem to be the case with PP.
 
nice i wish i had blood work but i used the TRS as pct after tren and felt great as well

their pre w.o is really good. great pumps just pricey
 
chasinSKURT said:
Being that 17a molecules have no problems being absorbed orally, I see no reason why transmucosal delivery would yield better results or ever be considered for administration of 17a drugs.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can answer a question I've wondered about for a long time:
I agree that sublingual absorption probably doesn't make methyls any more "bioavailable" than they already are. But, does the sublingual route bypass that "first pass" liver degradation, thereby decreasing hepatoxicity?
 
ImJ2x said:
Maybe you can answer a question I've wondered about for a long time:
I agree that sublingual absorption probably doesn't make methyls any more "bioavailable" than they already are. But, does the sublingual route bypass that "first pass" liver degradation, thereby decreasing hepatoxicity?
Click to expand...

No. No matter how you take a methyl it enters the blood stream and straight through the liver.

Injecting, oral, intra-oral, sub-lingual... it's all the same in that it enters the blood stream.
 
chasinSKURT said:
Liquid products suspend superdrol in a solution by using solvents that have similar polarity to superdrol. A solvent that is non polar will cause SD to dissolve when added into a solution. Most hormones are non polar molecules, the reason they are suspended in alcohol(s) is because alcohol(s) are also non polar, so the hormone readily dissolves (and that whole sterile thing too:)).

Now, the environment of the stomach is very polar. It has to be, because HCl is polar, and without a polar environment/solvents you'd end up with solid hydrochloride instead of liquid hydrochloric acid, which would raise pH (lesser amount of free H+ ions) and leave us with one hell of an issue in terms of digesting foods.

In a non polar solvent (what is doing the dissolving), a polar solute (what is being dissolved) precipitates as a solid. The point? Like dissolves like. A polar substance dissolves in a polar solution, and vice versa. A polar solute does not dissolve in a non polar solvent, and a non polar solute does not dissolve in a polar solute.

So, while superdrol as liquid looks and sounds cool, it really doesn't matter. When it enters a polar environment (the stomach), the superdrol molecules precipitate out and forms a solid. You could take a liquid superdrol product, and dump it into water, and stir, and the superdrol would precipitate out to a solid, and you'd see exactly what I'm talking about.

I used to do something similar with Nolva (non-polar) from research suppliers to see how much Nolva had actually been dissolved into the vial. If you add it to water (polar), it precipitates out, and you can extract the solid, dry it, and weigh the stuff out to see if you got your moneys worth.

At the end of the day, your gonna get the same effect by taking capsules.
Click to expand...

You are talking about a water soluble solvent (which quickly loose solvent capacity following dissolution). In the world of self emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS) there is a water soluble co-surfactant, a surfactant and an oil. It creates oil droplets (micelles) which trap the active ingredient and enhance delivery by creating a finely dispersed emulsion (by a few different mechanisms)

Read this thread about the research supporting our LV technology -

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/137728-future-nutrient-delivery.html

Also, checkout an Invalid Link Removed I did on SHR. I explain the whole technology in detail.

-Eric
 
chasinSKURT said:
Being that 17a molecules have no problems being absorbed orally, I see no reason why transmucosal delivery would yield better results or ever be considered for administration of 17a drugs. There was a study done in 2004 using a buccal testosterone tablets enhanced with ingredients to aid in transmucosal administration comparing bioavailability to oral test und. The study showed success using the buccal testosterone preparation over oral test und, but other studies using methyltestosterone suggest that 17a oral testosterone is superior to the buccal testosterone tabs in terms of bioavailability.

When all is said and done, most of the time (99%) sublingual delivery is just another ploy to make consumers think they are buying a superior product.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
Click to expand...

You might want to checkout the reasearch done on Danazol (oral steroid). SEDDS technology enhances delivery over 200% -

Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems: Strategy for improving oral delivery of poorly water soluble drugs.
Jing et al.
Current Drug Therapy, 2007, 2, 85-93


chasinSKURT said:
Says who? I hope that that is in fact true, but I've never seen any 3rd party testing of a PP product. Being the PH's aren't DSHEA compliant, I doubt PP is producing these products in cGMP facilities. I usually post over at the other forum, their products don't get a ton of attention over there, so this is really the first I've seen anyone mention them as having stringent QC measures in place. Their berry product does interest me though for overall health.
Click to expand...

See my previous post.

And what other forums are you talking about?

(BTW our facility is ready for FDA inspection and a GMP audit as soon as the FDA can come knock on our door this summer)

chasinSKURT said:
It may be the lowest price mg per mg of liquid solutions... but I'd be surprised if they can manufacturer for less than companies using capsules can.
Click to expand...

I bet we can... because we produce in our own in-house facility and don't have to pay turn-key contract manufacturing costs...

But then again... we use pretty exotic compounds in our LV solution so we may actually end up having a higher cost... but we sell directly to customers and skip the vendors so we can still beat the competition.

-Eric
 
ImJ2x said:
Maybe you can answer a question I've wondered about for a long time:
I agree that sublingual absorption probably doesn't make methyls any more "bioavailable" than they already are. But, does the sublingual route bypass that "first pass" liver degradation, thereby decreasing hepatoxicity?
Click to expand...

It will by-pass the "first pass" but it will eventually pass... so it doest really avoid toxicity.

I think the issue is to just address the toxicity by supporting the bile salt export pump (BSEP) to keep the steroids moving through the liver with something like silymarin. (which actually helps prevent 17a induced cholestasis) More info on this next week.

-Eric
 
Primordial Perf said:
It will by-pass the "first pass" but it will eventually pass... so it doest really avoid toxicity.

I think the issue is to just address the toxicity by supporting the bile salt export pump (BSEP) to keep the steroids moving through the liver with something like silymarin. (which actually helps prevent 17a induced cholestasis) More info on this next week.

-Eric
Click to expand...

I've been hearing that sam-E is the best liver protectant around. Agree?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top