Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?

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"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Luke 2:8-14
 
Dahm and all these years i thought it was about going into debit, buying gifts for people who really don't deserve them and them not liking them anyway.

I'm not a Christian, but I'm not anti-Christ or anything. So for me it's about being with family and about the kids, they are the ones who receive most of the gifts i buy. i cannot nor will not rob a child of Christmas not now not ever, even if they're not my child.

i remember one year my mom told me and my brother to pack up all the toys we were not going to ever play with again. we wrapped them and went over to a families house who we did not know. there were 2 boys there, who at the time i didn't know, were less fortuinte then me and my brother. we gave them the gifts and stayed a while. at the time it felt weird but looking back on it i guess that was one of the things in my childhood that made me into the generous person i am today.

my family was not and is not well to do by any means, but no matter how much you have or don't have remember, there's someone out there with even less, and of course, even more who is not willing to share or donate.
 
The main point still stands. The gifts are simply a symbol of what Christmas truly is; a gift given to us by God. Why give gifts for no reason?

Maybe it's just me, but I never understood why non-Christians celebrate Christmas. It makes absolutely no sense to me. It's like a non-Muslim celebrating Ramadan, or a non-Jew celebrating Hanukkah. - There's just no purpose.

Okay, here, I'm giving you presents. Why? I have no idea, but here you go.
 
I thought it was about receiving gifts, taking them back to the store for a refund, and using the $ to buy gears! :dunno:
 
Actually it was originally a pagan holiday where the pagans would exchange gifts and wives and get drunk and end up in a orgy.. That is the original meaning of christmass. Even the tree we use for decorations they had and it was soupposed to symbolize something or another, cant really emember I have a book here on the whole background, I could find it if you were interested. Anyway thanks to the catholic church sucessfully changed the meaning of chirstmass to what it is now... Just a little FYI for you guys..

(Disclaimer: this statement not meant to try and start a war with all the religious people on here.. not really here to argue)
 
JudoJosh said:
Actually it was originally a pagan holiday where the pagans would exchange gifts and wives and get drunk and end up in a orgy.. That is the original meaning of christmass. Even the tree we use for decorations they had and it was soupposed to symbolize something or another, cant really emember I have a book here on the whole background, I could find it if you were interested. Anyway thanks to the catholic church sucessfully changed the meaning of chirstmass to what it is now... Just a little FYI for you guys..

(Disclaimer: this statement not meant to try and start a war with all the religious people on here.. not really here to argue)
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The actual celebration was for the solstice. Christmas is what it is, a celebration for the birth of the savior of the Jews and gentiles. They removed the original holiday. What it was originally doesn't at all change what it is today. Why do people always try to use this argument as though it debunks the truth?
 
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Basically says Christmas is an unholy holiday because it's a tradition of man and not one directed by God. Also gives note to the various issues that have been surrounding christmas.

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basically saying the same thing and how throughout history, even the Christians, couldn't decide if they wanted the holiday.



My opinion is that Christmas is a time to spend with family and hang decorations and watch movies and cartoons. if you wish to make it a time to add a religious tone, then that's fine but I believe christmas, in itself, is far from a Christian holiday and this isn't a recent change. I believe the change was more of making it a religious one instead of what it was originally intended to be.

Now if you want to celebrate Jesus' birthday, you're better off celebrating it around the time he was actually born (or believed to be born since the date isn't exact)
 
Irish Cannon said:
The actual celebration was for the solstice. Christmas is what it is, a celebration for the birth of the savior of the Jews and gentiles. They removed the original holiday. What it was originally doesn't at all change what it is today. Why do people always try to use this argument as though it debunks the truth?
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Simply because most people do not know the actualy history of Christmas and I can't even count on one hand where the birth of Jesus was the main concept and action of Christmas outside of people saying so. I grew up in a Southern Baptist household so I was surrounded by a LOT of religious folk.
 
Politics, culture and superstitions aside, Christmas day, regardless of the calander date, is the day that Christians of all denominations, as well as non-christians in many cases, recognize the day of the birth of Jesus of Bethlehem, AKA: Jesus Christ.

It is an historical fact that he was born, lived and died. His birth date is as worthy of recognition as any one elses. The fact that Christians consider his birth fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy and Him as the The Savior, The Christ is what distiguishes it between yours and mine.

Merry Christmas. :)
 
Xmas is about having the best lights on your house every year.
 
Irish Cannon said:
The actual celebration was for the solstice. Christmas is what it is, a celebration for the birth of the savior of the Jews and gentiles. They removed the original holiday. What it was originally doesn't at all change what it is today. Why do people always try to use this argument as though it debunks the truth?
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Actually the winter solstice wasnt what christmass was originally and wasnt what I was reffering too I was talking about Saturnalia, which indeed a pagan holiday celberated on december 25th.

Jayhawkk said:
Simply because most people do not know the actualy history of Christmas and I can't even count on one hand where the birth of Jesus was the main concept and action of Christmas outside of people saying so. I grew up in a Southern Baptist household so I was surrounded by a LOT of religious folk.
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according to the bible Jesus wasnt born in december...December would have been too cold and wouldnt fit the story line the bible depicts for the day he was born.


Here is a little article from a Christian website.. if your gonna believe something you might as well know exactly what you are believeing

Was Jesus born on December 25? There is no evidence for this date. So then, who decided that Jesus' birth would be celebrated on that date? The early Christian church did not celebrate Jesus' birth. It wasn't until A.D. 440 that the church officially proclaimed December 25 as the birth of Christ. This was not based on any religious evidence but on a pagan feast. Saturnalia was a tradition inherited by the Roman pagans from an earlier Babylonian priesthood. December 25 was used as a celebration of the birthday of the sun god. It was observed near the winter solstice.

The apostles in the Bible predicted that some Christians would adopt pagan beliefs to enable them to make their religion more palatable to the pagans around them. Therefore, some scholars think the church chose the date of this pagan celebration to interest them in Christianity. The pagans were already used to celebrating on this date.

The Bible itself tells us that December 25 is an unlikely date for His birth. Palestine is very cold in December. It was much too cold to ask everyone to travel to the city of their fathers to register for taxes. Also the shepherds were in the fields (Luke 2:8-12). Shepherds were not in the fields in the winter time. They are in the fields early in March until early October. This would place Jesus' birth in the spring or early fall. It is also known that Jesus lived for 33.5 years and died at the feast of the Passover, which is at Easter time. He must therefore have been born six months the other side of Easter - making the date around the September/October time frames.

Other evidence that December 25 is the wrong date for the birth of Jesus comes from early writings. Iranaeus, born about a century after Jesus, notes that Jesus was born in the 41st year of the reign of Augustus. Since Augustus began his reign in the autumn of 43 B.C., this appears to substantiate the birth of Jesus as the autumn of 2 B.C. Eusebius (A.D. 264-340), the "Father of Church History," ascribes it to the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus and the 28th from the subjection of Egypt on the death of Anthony and Cleopatra. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2 B.C. to the autumn of 1 B.C. The subjugation of Egypt into the Roman Empire occurred in the autumn of 30 B.C. The 28th year extended from the autumn of 3 B.C. to the autumn of 2 B.C. The only date that would meet both of these constraints would be the autumn of 2 B.C.

John the Baptist also helps us determine that December 25 is not the birth of Jesus. Elizabeth, John's mother, was a cousin of Mary. John began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. The minimum age for the ministry was 30. As Augustus died on August 19, A.D. 14, that was the accession year for Tiberius. If John was born on April 19-20, 2 B.C., his 30th birthday would have been April 19-20, A.D. 29, or the 15th year of Tiberius. This seems to confirm the 2 B.C. date, and, since John was 5 months older, this also confirms an autumn birth date for Jesus.
Another interesting fact comes from Elizabeth herself. She hid herself for 5 months and then the Angel Gabriel announced to Mary both Elizabeth's condition and that Mary would also bear a son who would be called Jesus. Mary went "with haste" to visit Elizabeth, who was then in the first week of her 6th month, or the 4th week of Dec., 3 B.C. If Jesus was born 280 days later it would place his birth on Sept. 29, 2 B.C. Some scholars interpret the 6 months to be in line with the Hebrew calendar or the August-September time frame. Since Mary's pregnancy commenced a little before the sixth month around July, Jesus would be born somewhere around March-June. But does it matter if Jesus was born on the spring, the fall, or on December 25? Does it matter, theologically, when Jesus was born? What do you think, does it matter what day we celebrate His birth?
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Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?

Is not - "Is December 25th really the day Jesus was born?"
Is not - "Is Christmas a pagan holiday?"

It is - "And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

Merry Christmas - in July if you wish :)
 
I did read ur reply and I disagreed that's y I posted the article. The main concept of Christmas was an attempt of the catholic church to convert the pagans. It's why they picked dec 25 and not jesus actual birthday.

I only commeted on this thread because there are many Christians who actually believe that dec 25 was the actual birth day of Christ and it's not. I'm not trying to degrade what christmass has evolved too or challenge it just letting people know the actual history. Knowledge is power ;)
 
Your point is off topic and therefore irrelevant to this discussion. The TOS is not "is December 25th the real birth date of Jesus?" Regardless of the day or date, Christians recognize Christmas, which just happens to be on December 25th, as the birthday of Jesus.

The significance of His birth is the topic and not the conspiracies regarding the date which you feel the need to address.
 
Once again, please read what I posted.

My opinion is that Christmas is a time to spend with family and hang decorations and watch movies and cartoons. if you wish to make it a time to add a religious tone, then that's fine but I believe christmas, in itself, is far from a Christian holiday and this isn't a recent change. I believe the change was more of making it a religious one instead of what it was originally intended to be.

Now if you want to celebrate Jesus' birthday, you're better off celebrating it around the time he was actually born (or believed to be born since the date isn't exact)
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I disagree with the date not being of any significance... I do believe that celebrating a person's birthday 4-6 months out from their actual birthday isn't normal and I do believe that people often think that his birthday was on December 25th which is why all of decorations have a birthday theme to it. There's Christmas the holiday (universal Santa and gifts) and there's Christian's celebrating Jesus' birthday, which happens to be done on December 25th.


You can Merry Christmas in May and say it's to celebrate for that reason but Christmas may have Christ in its name but it's far from what most would do for a person's birthday. Why not just move that part to what's believed to be his birthday and keep Christmas as what it currently is... A marketing ploy to get people to buy **** and an excuse to get your family together.
 
conspiracies? What conspiracies??

And jay u added to that quote. That last part wasn't in the original and if that part was in the original I wouldn't have quoted u..

But what conspiracies are u talking about?

And the signifience of his birth isn't what the thread was about, it might have been ur intentions, but the original question was.."Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?" so I answered fro
a historical stand point not a religious one

not many people know it origanated as a pagan holiday, from the exchanging of gifts to the meaning of the tree to the decorations on the tree and so forth. They all were pagan rituals
 
I understand and concur.

My schools, place of employment, banks, post office and other government offices need to get there **** together then.

I didn't make the rules. I'm simply visiting this place.

I outwardly celebrate the Christian Christmas on the day that the rules suggest I do. ;)

...regardless of the day.
 
Judo, I quoted that because it was my original response and to show that you were not getting the point of that reply. You quoted my follow-up which was further explaining the first. My whole point is that you 'disagreed' with me then posted exactly what I had already said.

The quote you used was me stating that few of the religious people I knew were aware that December 25th wasn't the birthday of Jesus.
 
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
 
Mmmmmmm I love pasta.... Been soo long since I had some good ziti.. Damn keto diet
 
JudoJosh said:
Actually it was originally a pagan holiday where the pagans would exchange gifts and wives and get drunk and end up in a orgy.. That is the original meaning of christmass. Even the tree we use for decorations they had and it was soupposed to symbolize something or another, cant really emember I have a book here on the whole background, I could find it if you were interested. Anyway thanks to the catholic church sucessfully changed the meaning of chirstmass to what it is now... Just a little FYI for you guys..

(Disclaimer: this statement not meant to try and start a war with all the religious people on here.. not really here to argue)
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The trees were for the worship of the god Baal, and started in ancient Babylon. Well, originally the man Nimrod, but after his wife claimed a tree sprung up from a dead stump on the day of his birth, everyone started thinking he was a god, and would come to a evergreen grove hoping that nimrod would come back and give them gifts under the tree.

Originally Dec. 25 was followed by a week of partying in a celebration called Saturnalia in the roman empire. They gave gifts, feasted and drank. Priests of Saturn in the empire would carry and hang wreaths of evergreen. Eventually the empire declared that there would just be one holiday, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, on Dec. 25th. It wasn't until 350AD the pope declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated then.

This just followed a tradition of celebrating a god's (or son of god ect) birthday on the 25th, including Mithras, Horus, Attis, Dionysus the son of Zeus, Tammuz, Hercules, Perseus, Helios, Bacchus, Apollo, and Jupiter.

Although the traditions we have now might piss god off.... just look at Jeremiah 10:1-4.
"Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter."

Christmas is a mixture of pagan tradition going back thousands of year and the 'birth' of jesus, despite him not being born on the 25th. It would have been far too cold to keep sheep outside on the 25th in Israel, and he was probably born very close to the Feast of Tabernacles.

Either way, the things that make christmas great are traditions for Dec 25 going much farther back than christianity. Make sure you say thanks to Ba'al (or Nimrod, if you perfer) when you put presents under the tree :veryhappy:

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EDIT: Oh, by the way, this Ba'al is not the same as the Ba'al in a christian hell.
 
silverSurfer said:
I'm catholic and this is what I celebrate :)
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yessir...i'm catholic as well...ask many catholics and they will say the same...even though the son of god was not born on the 25th..the church just picked that particular day for celebration and this is what my family and I believe in...god bless all and happy holidays!
 
silverSurfer said:
Caferacer, thanks for the background on the holiday tradition - I did not know all that.
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No prob.

Now Christians, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to piss on Christians and not even bother to call it rain, but the truth is a funny thing.

The holiday season is still a great time where people put away petty crap and actually act nicely to others for once, pagan origins or not.

:bigok:
 
News Flash (and I'm not meaning to be rude)

EVERYONE with a brain knows that the christmas tree is not what Christmas is. EVERYONE with a brain knows that Santa Claus is not what Christmas is. Everyone with a brain knows that December 25th is NOT the actual day of the birth of Jesus. EVERYONE with a brain knows that pagan rituals, the vernal equinox, and other traditions, myths and rituals were united by religious powers (likely the Catholics).

For God's sake, literally - anyone with a brain knows that the day of December 25th is the day that Christian's, people of faith, whatever denomination, recognize as the day of celebration of the birth of Jesus.

Anything else otherwise simply pulling your yule log :D

“And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15, NKJV.
 
So there was a really cool tradition called Saturnalia and it got ruined with gifts and guilt? Now I really do miss the good old days:)
 
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