Does science support the existence of God?

[russianstar]

You missed a few steps.

It's definitely curious, and quite interesting, but as far as proof it is not. It simply is a fact.

And with a tongue-in-cheek response, the baby cuckoos proceed to murder the correct young of the "hosts" (cuckoos are parasites) in order to hog all of the resources for itself. I present this as proof of NO omnibenevolent creator.

Actualy if the cukoos were left to what nature originaly intended, the nests the birds would use every time were once the most common bird on the face of the earth, the carrier pigeon, there were so many the sky would darken with them, the cukoo wich is and always has been very few in comparison, helped keep the numbers down, even if only slightly, it wasnt until the death of the carrier pigeons by mankinds hunting that caused the cukoos to use other nests in order to survive.
As for murdering other birds, that actualy isnt always true, in many cases they all stay in the same nest, in situations when the cukoo hatches first, it will push the eggs out of the nest, But this supports a divine creator with understanding who used nature to keep nature balanced, its only mans greed and over indulgence, tounge in cheek response.. parasitic behaviour that has caused the cukoo and many other creatures to rely on instinct, that special ability god programmed into all animate creation apart from humans, they cannot choose right and wrong, and in so doing they would keep the eco system, and life in balance, we can, and we ruin most things we interfere with, but that is because of the ruler of this system satan, and our own inability to rely on gods principles, and thus give in to our now inherited imperection, and become slaves to sin.

 

[russianstar]

What about a bird flying is proof of an intelligent creator? :wtf:

Are you without any IQ, or do you have less of a brain than a cukoo, it has never met its parents, it has never flown, it doesnt know the way, it flys one of the most hazardous journeys that science has ever recorded, 80 hours through perilous conditions, it then circles the breeding grounds once, where there can be 10,000 breeding pairs of cukoos, and it flys straight to its parents that laid the egg, how does it even know its a cukoo?

Now as you missed the point altogether, in future my disscusing anything with you as an individual will cease, your objection is mind blowingly dumb, did you even go to school? people like you are so irritating, trying to get a response from your so called friends to back you up, trying to be clever, when you are so dull and dense, im not even sure if light could pass through you.

 

[russianstar]

The Facts are more people have been slaughtered by non believers I.E. Nazis , Communist. I might add in communism part of the platform is being an atheist the Russian communist killed 61,000,000.00 people if you add up Russian Reds , chinese Reds cambodian Reds North Korea and Yugoslavia it ends up being around 110,000,000.00 all this from communist whos platform demands Atheism. No religious war even come close to this number , the bottom line is the atheist have little regard for human life because there ethical belief system is Godless with no higher authority to answer to.

Lets not forget the additional millions of murdered babys that Godless people have murdered everyyear.

Do I want to be around and have dealings with people that have this type of track record , I think not. They could hurt my family or freinds and not care 1 bit as they have no consience.

Lastly they have nothing to fear from me I just dont want to be around them the only thing I am sad for is the countless murders they perpetrate on there own kind IE there babys being aborted as the babys never get a chance at life.

Bro all these wars you mentioned were religious, thats just the point, The non-beleivers you speak of, believed they were right, The russians were catholic, they turned on those who didnt conform to the dictatorship under the new goverment,
The soviet and baltic wars all tried to stop people making there own choices, deciding their own beliefs, it was oppresive.
The nazis murdered those who didnt fit in, jehovahs witnesses, who wouldnt even fight, and are about the most peacable people on earth, were cruelly killed, and attacked, and all they had to do was tick a box saying they wouldnt preach about GODS kingdom, they were not even political, and they were still put to death because they wouldnt conform.
The jews were singled out for being dark, not arian, for being rich, when others were poor, for having their own faith, again an ethnic and religious cleansing...supported by who? Who paid for the armourments, who blessed the armies on both the english and german sides going to slaughter...The catholic church, Nearly every war when you look at it closely samva, was started because of a difference in beliefs, or because of a hatred towards god.
Samva do not accuse atheists of having little regard for human life, is that how jesus spoke, how he dealt with unbelievers, it is those in religion who have blood on their hands, false religion who as revelation said drinks the blood of the prophets, how many true servants of god have been murdered by religious leaders, il name one, william tindale, who translated the bible into a tounge the common people spoke, was murdered, burnt at the stake, why?, the catholics , then the dominant religion in europe did not want the common people to see through its lies.
And so it has been and will be, but no matter how hard people try, there will always be those who do belief, and who do as god asks, not what they decide god wants.
Another point, the bible has been attacked, and people have tried to destroy it all through history, but its still here, and still as applicable now as ever it was, science or not, gods had his hand in keeping his word alive.

THE SCIENCE PART
Just a final point, job 26 verse 7 says god is hanging the earth upon nothing, man didnt discover that until the 18th century, and many didnt believe it up until the middle of the 20th century, that shows the maker of science was god, and he gave us a glimpse of his power.
Here is another one.
In isaiah chapter 40 verse 22 it says 22*There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell, the word circle here comes from the hebrew word meaning sphere, well when was earth discovered to be a sphere? the 19th century, there is still a flat earth scociety today.
Again evidence that the bible, gods inspired word is scientific, and so is his creations.
Quarantine was another, why are things quarantined? because of bacteria, well they didnt have microscopes back in ancient times, yet they knew the importance of quarantine, in fact we get that word from the hebrew word meaning 40, 40 days things should be quarantined.
Written about 1500*B.C.E., the Mosaic Law (found in the first five books of the Bible) contained sound laws regarding quarantining of the sick, treatment of dead bodies, and disposal of waste.—Leviticus 13:1-5; Numbers 19:1-13; Deuteronomy 23:13,*14. Here are the passages of scripture showing that to be true.
Again evidence of a supreme creator.

 

[Zero V]

Religion has never started a war...but many a man has started a war under the ruse of religion.

You cant blame a catholic, for what the pope does, or a Christian, for what a cult does claiming to be Christians.

All the wars that have raged, even under the muse of a religious cause, was actually for the people up top to make gains. They simple using a peoples love and respect for the power of God to drive them into a war by telling them lies and manipulating them.

 

[russianstar]

Religion has never started a war...but many a man has started a war under the ruse of religion.

You cant blame a catholic, for what the pope does, or a Christian, for what a cult does claiming to be Christians.

All the wars that have raged, even under the muse of a religious cause, was actually for the people up top to make gains. They simple using a peoples love and respect for the power of God to drive them into a war by telling them lies and manipulating them.

I wasnt blaming bro, i was stating what happened, i know catholics, protestants, muslims, and many people of other faiths, who are not hypocritical like their leaders.
I dont know wether i agree with you on the religion never starting a war, if a difference in beliefs causes the death of some wich turns into a war, then religion started the war, wether or not it was used as a ruse, remember the hutoo and tutsi tribe in africa, they were neighbours who dwelled together as friends, until a difference in beliefs was noted and the tutsis were slaughtered by the hutus, friends killing friends.
The spanish inquisition was caused by the leaders of the catholic church opposing the translation of the bible... surely its religious... but its false religion, true religion has never been nor never will be the cause or the ruse behind any war.. it cannot for god wont allow it.

 

[isoc]

Isoc,

my post was mainly directed to samva777 as he seems to be as close to a militant Christian (Soldier) as I've seen on these boards.

Just to reiterate, I have no problems with religious people, except when they attempt to:
1) argue that science has proven the existence of god
2) impose their beliefs onto others

other than that, I could care less what they (you) believe, just as I'm sure a majority of religious people could care less than I don't believe in god, as I am/have always been, a good person and treat others as I want to be treated.

I see, I hope I did not come off as confrontational, as that was not the intent, more to just answer the questions. We defintiely agree on the science portion, wont prove or disprove, and free will to choose belief or not is a central theme of the Bible so imposition or forced belief is wrong and not belief anyways.

However I do care that you dont believe and not as a mean or imposing thing or an I am better/smarter than you, as a fellow human and just wanting the best or a good thing in someones life. The choice is definitely yours, but I will still pray for good and not resentment to come out of this thread in all lives.

 

[EESCHMan]

I see, I hope I did not come off as confrontational, as that was not the intent, more to just answer the questions. We defintiely agree on the science portion, wont prove or disprove, and free will to choose belief or not is a central theme of the Bible so imposition or forced belief is wrong and not belief anyways.

However I do care that you dont believe and not as a mean or imposing thing or an I am better/smarter than you, as a fellow human and just wanting the best or a good thing in someones life. The choice is definitely yours, but I will still pray for good and not resentment to come out of this thread in all lives.

No big deal...

I do worry about people like samva777 though...

 

[B5150]

No big deal...

I do worry about people like samva777 though...

That's a relief.

What sort of people do you worry about?

 

[EESCHMan]

The Facts are more people have been slaughtered by non believers I.E. Nazis , Communist. I might add in communism part of the platform is being an atheist the Russian communist killed 61,000,000.00 people if you add up Russian Reds , chinese Reds cambodian Reds North Korea and Yugoslavia it ends up being around 110,000,000.00 all this from communist whos platform demands Atheism. No religious war even come close to this number , the bottom line is the atheist have little regard for human life because there ethical belief system is Godless with no higher authority to answer to.

Lets not forget the additional millions of murdered babys that Godless people have murdered everyyear.

Do I want to be around and have dealings with people that have this type of track record , I think not. They could hurt my family or freinds and not care 1 bit as they have no consience.

Lastly they have nothing to fear from me I just dont want to be around them the only thing I am sad for is the countless murders they perpetrate on there own kind IE there babys being aborted as the babys never get a chance at life.

ugh...

"Moreover, people don’t kill because of a lack of belief in something. If they kill at all, they do it because of a positive belief in something. If we accept the proposition that people kill because of their lack of beliefs, then by extension, there is more evidence to blame all murders in the entire world (except those done by children under the age of, say, 10) on the failure to believe in Santa Claus, than on any other reason, because that is something all murderers have in common. Obviously, their lack of belief in Santa drove them to kill, right?. Or, instead of blaming the “troubles” in Ireland on Catholic/Protestant antagonism, we should blame them on the Irish lack of belief in leprechauns. That sounds pretty silly, doesn’t it? The reason for this is that there is a failure of connection, or a nexus, between atheism (or a-santaclausism or a-leprechaunism) and acts of brutality."

"Atheism in Stalin’s Russia, then, was a mere tool used by Stalin, for the greater good of the state, imposed on the structure of society. It’s effect was to strip away the power of the church to oppose his power. It was not a mere lack of belief in gods. Stalin could care less about the individual beliefs of the peasant, his focus was on destroying organized religion. Religion still flourished unofficially in Stalinist Russia, he actually reopened the churches during WWII in order to motivate the people to fight, and religion continues to this day.

No one died because they refused to embrace atheism. Many died because they were deemed enemies of the state. Religious leaders may have been among the executed, but not because they refused to become atheists, but because they were viewed as holdovers of the old order that would try to oppose the state.

However, nowhere near the number of people claimed by theists actually died in Stalinist Russia. Historians have pored over the records once they were thrown open after the fall of the USSR, hoping to find evidence of mass executions. So far, the evidence points to about 3,000,000 total deaths by reason of execution, privation and resettlement. (Of those only about 7-800,000 were by execution.) Another 6-8 million died during the Famine in the Ukraine, but historians are unable to say whether Stalin caused the famine intentionally, or whether it was just an ill-conceived agrarian policy gone bad. In any event, it’s very hard to justify the claim that a famine was used “in the name of atheism” to kill people."

In addition, According to the Bible, God drowned all living humans save 6. That is the largest mass murder ever unless you believe the population of the earth at the time was less than the numbers of people killed in the 20th century. Without question, if it happened, it is the largest mass murder ever as a percentage of people alive.

If you believe the flood took place, you admit that God is the largest murderer of all time.


Almost forgot this gem of a quote from you:

the bottom line is the atheist have little regard for human life because there ethical belief system is Godless with no higher authority to answer to

So, you're saying if you didn't believe in god, you'd be killing people?

How many atheists do you actually know?

Here's a nice statistic:

"Out of convicted rapists, 57% admitted to reading
pornography. 95% admitted to reading the Bible."

"Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%)"

"Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience"

and regarding the "Bible Belt:"
"it is an area with the highest divorce, murder, STD/HIV/AIDS, teen pregnancy, single parent homes, infant mortality, and obesity rates in the nation. As a region, the Bible Belt has the poorest health care systems and the lowest rates of high school graduation"

"Those states that do consume the most porn tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds."

"States where a majority of residents agreed with the statement "I have old-fashioned values about family and marriage," bought 3.6 more subscriptions per thousand people than states where a majority disagreed. A similar difference emerged for the statement "AIDS might be God's punishment for immoral sexual behaviour."

So much for Christians being more moral than atheists!

 

[icebergslim]

Second, the universe sprang from nothing, but this proposition flies in the face of 2 very important scientific laws (cause and effect & conservation of energy.) As has been said many times before, "nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could." In other words, there are no free lunches my friend. The very conditions that hold true this universe, also prevent any possibility of matter springing from nothingness.

Ugh, so if nothing can come from "nothingness," but according to you everything was created by "God," how did "God" come from nothing? Do you not see that Creationism is as useful for explaining the universe as saying that "everything is an illusion" or that the universe is on the back of a turtle which is standing on the back of another turtle?

Third, the universe has always existed. This means that a universe that has eternally existed would have died out an 'eternity ago' from expansion and subsequent heat loss, thus fatally wounding this hypothesis as well.

Yeah not really. Maybe try reading more science and less Bible.

There is however one other possibility. It's found in the first chapter of the first book of the bible - of all places! "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." In this age of empirical science, it seems Intelligent Design is the most viable theory available.

Yes, it's the most viable theory available if you're lacking in critical thinking, logic or reasoning. I'll just point you to the Skeptic's Bible soyou can check out all of the contradictions in "God's Word." Not that you're really interested in the truth. Invalid Link Removed

Believe me, I know how you feel. It numbs your mind to even consider that you've been wrong about this you're whole life. Hey, if it's any consolation, the Bible was the LAST place I thought to look for answers too. Oh well, it still is what it is. Don't be so arrogant and reluctant to test your precepts! You have been lied to, by scientists who have prostituted the truth (mainly for conventional fear or grant money greed) and it makes me sick.

You're making some major assumptions about me here. Not that I think it's relevant to the discussion but I was actually raised a Christian (much to my chagrin) and in spite of the repeated (from the age of 6 until the age of 17-18) brainwashing I was able to arrive to the truth using the brain evolution gave me (the same brain that believers think God gave them but wants them to completely discard when it comes to "Him")

The reasoning behind my original post is that you guys (by that I mean "believers") are, by an overwhelming majority, not actually interested in discovering what is true and what isn't, but more interested in converting people to your cause, confirming your beliefs and chest bumping with fellow "believers."

So as a whole I find it's a waste of time "debating" with your ilk (although it can be an amusing and entertaining waste of time.) I know that is offensive but there is no other way to put it. I was once someone that thought "You believe what you want and as long as you don't impose your beliefs on me, then it's cool" but after seeing what destruction and grief "believers" cause the world it's time for atheists to stand up and say that these things are not acceptable.

If any of you believers are REALLY interested in discovering the truth, and by that I mean not looking at everything through the biased lens of a believer, I urge you to:

1) Watch Bill Maher's outstanding film "Religulous." Please excuse the foul language (I wish he had cleaned up his act, even though they are just words foul language typically makes believers stop listening entirely, although I am not sure they were his intended audience anyway) and use your BRAIN. Ask yourself if what he is saying makes LOGICAL sense. Ask yourself if what the other people featured are making LOGICAL sense.
I'm sure Religulous has been mentioned in this thread already, but I think it's an outstanding overview of why religion/God is an outdated belief and in a perfect world would be non-existent.

2) If you want a more in-depth explanation, read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion."

3) Check out the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, already linked in this thread and ask yourself why God can't be more consistent (or find better people to transcribe his word, or find better people to interpret his word.)
Invalid Link Removed

 

[samva777]

Ok fine america was built on Judeo Chirstian Principles , then why I must ask myself are the Atheist still living in such a bad country they should all move to a communist country with Atheist ideals. I am sick of a minority of people with the biggest mouths telling the majority what they must and should not do. Yes the minority should have rights but not the right to destroy the foundation of my country.

We christians have rights too and if the atheist dont like it tough we need to start sticking together and not letting a minority of Haters divide and conquer , because they are such a small minority this is the only way they can win. I hope we get a lot more selective about immigration to our christian nation also. Why have people that hate us living amongst us its gone to far and many christians feel like I do.

Dmitry are you actually defending this mass murderer with this comment?
It's not about being believer or non-believer, it's about attitude. Hitler honestly thought he was doing good for his Country, for his people. If so I cant take you seriously if I read this wrong my apologies.

 

[dsade]

Ok fine america was built on Judeo Chirstian Principles , then why I must ask myself are the Atheist still living in such a bad country they should all move to a communist country with Atheist ideals. I am sick of a minority of people with the biggest mouths telling the majority what they must and should not do. Yes the minority should have rights but not the right to destroy the foundation of my country.

We christians have rights too and if the atheist dont like it tough we need to start sticking together and not letting a minority of Haters divide and conquer , because they are such a small minority this is the only way they can win. I hope we get a lot kore selective about immigration to our christian nation also. Why have people that hate us living amongst us its gone to far and many christians feel like I do.

Dmitry are you actually defending this mass murderer with this comment?
It's not about being believer or non-believer, it's about attitude. Hitler honestly thought he was doing good for his Country, for his people. If so I cant take you seriously if I read this wrong my apologies.

Hitler was not an atheist, FYI.

And your attitude says everything that I don't need to about intolerance and hatred. Hate away, "christian", just like Jesus commanded.

 

[samva777]

Not so

Hitler was not an atheist, FYI.

And your attitude says everything that I don't need to about intolerance and hatred. Hate away, "christian", just like Jesus commanded.

Hitler was not a christian he was a PAGAN.

No I wont be brought down to your level I dont hate anyone pity is more like it.
By the way I dont buy products from atheist I would rather my money go to a brother than someone that hates me and my kind.
The one thing I do hate is the millions of babys atheist kill in there abortion mills this is allowed because at the time we got too liberal and let atheist appoint our supreme court justices. I cant think of anyone more dispicable than a baby killer.

 

[liftHardorDie]

What is this posting about god? are you kidding me?

THIS IS A BODYBUILDING WEBSITE

Not a website based on people IDIOTIC beliefs in god.
There is NO god. Anyone with brain knows that.

Disagree?
Don't waste your time responding, go read the bible or something else religious to waste your time.

God is a Fraud.

 

[AE14]

Religion has never started a war...but many a man has started a war under the ruse of religion.

You cant blame a catholic, for what the pope does, or a Christian, for what a cult does claiming to be Christians.

All the wars that have raged, even under the muse of a religious cause, was actually for the people up top to make gains. They simple using a peoples love and respect for the power of God to drive them into a war by telling them lies and manipulating them.

the first line here is a bit of a cop out imo. Ideas dont start wars, that is nothing new, however it is the adherents to these belief systemes (specifically monotheistic in nature) that start wars.

 

[dsade]

Hitler was not a christian he was a PAGAN.

No I wont be brought down to your level I dont hate anyone pity is more like it.
By the way I dont buy products from atheist I would rather my money go to a brother than someone that hates me and my kind.
The one thing I do hate is the millions of babys atheist kill in there abortion mills this is allowed because at the time we got too liberal and let atheist appoint our supreme court justices. I cant think of anyone more dispicable than a baby killer.

Honestly, I would rather you DIDN'T buy my products. Thanks.

Again, your bile speaks for itself, and I don't need to comment to make your vicious nature any more apparent.

You, sir, are a monster.

 

[AE14]

Hitler was not a christian he was a PAGAN.

No I wont be brought down to your level I dont hate anyone pity is more like it.
By the way I dont buy products from atheist I would rather my money go to a brother than someone that hates me and my kind.
The one thing I do hate is the millions of babys atheist kill in there abortion mills this is allowed because at the time we got too liberal and let atheist appoint our supreme court justices. I cant think of anyone more dispicable than a baby killer.

Please explain how Hitler was a pagan. I would love to hear this. If you look into his life, you would know you are wrong.

Athiests appointing supreme court justices? :rofl:

Also, your comments and generalizations about athiests are downright pathetic, and if you truly consider yourself a christian, my advice would be to act like one.

 

[dsade]

the first line here is a bit of a cop out imo. Ideas dont start wars, that is nothing new, however it is the adherents to these belief systemes (specifically monotheistic in nature) that start wars.

I think, rather, that is the mindsets that accept a religious line of thinking that ALSO leads those same adherents to be led into wars by their manipulative "leaders".

Since there are those that think direct communication with "god" requires an intermediary (brian, you have stated many times that there is a type of christian that shuns this belief) be it prophet, priest, pope, evangelist, whatever. It is not too much of a stretch to then cease critical inquiry and become one who does what he is told, provided that special status is accepted.

Hence, horrors committed in the name of religion are unable to be seen as such because critical thinking is crippled.

 

[samva777]

Honestly, I would rather you DIDN'T buy my products. Thanks.

Again, your bile speaks for itself, and I don't need to comment to make your vicious nature any more apparent.

You, sir, are a monster.

Becareful who you point fingers at , there just might be fingers pointing back at you

 

[icebergslim]

Ok fine america was built on Judeo Chirstian Principles

No, it wasn't.

 

[samva777]

here is one of many explanations on the web

Please explain how Hitler was a pagan. I would love to hear this. If you look into his life, you would know you are wrong.

Athiests appointing supreme court justices? :rofl:

Also, your comments and generalizations about athiests are downright pathetic, and if you truly consider yourself a christian, my advice would be to act like one.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[dsade]

Becareful who you point fingers at , there just might be fingers pointing back at you

I live according to my principles and I will place them up against yours anyday. I stand by my philosophy of life, and see it reap results and rewards that end up helping peoiple (though this is not my primary motive) every day. Hopefully you can say the same.

 

[DAdams91982]

Wow... professionalism spewing left and right in this thread. Glad to see companies carrying themselves well.

 

[DR.D]

Ugh, so if nothing can come from "nothingness," but according to you everything was created by "God," how did "God" come from nothing? Do you not see that Creationism is as useful for explaining the universe as saying that "everything is an illusion" or that the universe is on the back of a turtle which is standing on the back of another turtle?

Modern science strongly supports the universe having a 'beginning'. Unlike the universe though, God is eternal and infinite. Therefore, there is no imperative that God have a creator, as he is the uncaused first cause. Furthermore, to suppose that because the universe had a cause, the cause of the universe must have had a cause too is a logical dead end! An infinite regression of causes does not answer the question of source, it simply makes the effects more numerous.

The only philosophically plausible possibility is that the universe was made by an unmade Cause greater than itself, and science supports this last remaining possibility. This is the in your face truth, so don't muddy the waters with religion, opinion, morals, etc, just let the ball bounce as it may and be open to where it lands, if you really seek truth that is.

I mean seriously guy, even Russell himself dismissed the turtle theory.

Yeah not really. Maybe try reading more science and less Bible.

I did (and still do.) I achieved 2 degrees in science actually (Nuclear Biophysics and General Chemistry) before the age of 27, after that I finally read the Bible for the first time.

Yes, it's the most viable theory available if you're lacking in critical thinking, logic or reasoning. I'll just point you to the Skeptic's Bible soyou can check out all of the contradictions in "God's Word." Not that you're really interested in the truth. Invalid Link Removed

Ahhh yes, the ol' contradictions cop out game! Some of you Bible haters have made a virtual art form out of exploiting seeming 'discrepancies' in the Biblical details, but your ambiguous protest shows you don't have a clue. The best you can do is link us to somebody else's opinion, since you don't understand the 'contradictions' for yourself? That's pathetic. If you have a legitimate issue, specifically what is it?

If you wanna play atheist, at least present a real argument like any good, self-respecting atheist should.

You're making some major assumptions about me here. Not that I think it's relevant to the discussion but I was actually raised a Christian (much to my chagrin) and in spite of the repeated (from the age of 6 until the age of 17-18) brainwashing I was able to arrive to the truth using the brain evolution gave me (the same brain that believers think God gave them but wants them to completely discard when it comes to "Him")

I see. Well I already figured that, friend. That's why I challenged you to get over it by analyzing your own preconceptions, and then be honest with yourself, discounting most of the crap you were likely taught in church. That's not God, that "religion", and it's not always truth, it's often politics and hypocrisy. Maybe that's why I get it and you don't? I wasn't poisoned as a child. I already lived a very, very worldly existence and explored science thoroughly before investigating the Bible. I had no silly precepts or religious resentment to cloud my logic, like you do.

The reasoning behind my original post is that you guys (by that I mean "believers") are, by an overwhelming majority, not actually interested in discovering what is true and what isn't, but more interested in converting people to your cause, confirming your beliefs and chest bumping with fellow "believers."

I must say I agree with you on this point. Some of these people want your money, others really do believe (whether they understand why or not) and yet others are deceived themselves, but I do concede your point. I don't even go to Church though, so you have no excuse to lump me in with hi-five 'christians' trying to push some denominational agenda. But the truth is the truth, and I will defend that.

You are no less wrong going all the way left, as a delusional Christian who goes all the way right, just sayin'. You WILL NOT find truth at either extreme.

So as a whole I find it's a waste of time "debating" with your ilk (although it can be an amusing and entertaining waste of time.) I know that is offensive but there is no other way to put it. I was once someone that thought "You believe what you want and as long as you don't impose your beliefs on me, then it's cool" but after seeing what destruction and grief "believers" cause the world it's time for atheists to stand up and say that these things are not acceptable.

You atheists are so silly, lol, don't you understand that life has no meaning without belief? Go ahead, get on your anti-God soap box though. Drive anarchy to the next level! That will precipitate the greatest war ever seen, when there is no standard anymore. If it's all about evolution and only the strong survive, don't complain when you get what you get though. If there is no God and no eternal standard or consequence, then there is truly no meaning to life and this life is an unintelligent happenstance with only 1 law, survival of the fittest and anything goes.

If any of you believers are REALLY interested in discovering the truth, and by that I mean not looking at everything through the biased lens of a believer, I urge you to:

1) Watch Bill Maher's outstanding film "Religulous." Please excuse the foul language (I wish he had cleaned up his act, even though they are just words foul language typically makes believers stop listening entirely, although I am not sure they were his intended audience anyway) and use your BRAIN. Ask yourself if what he is saying makes LOGICAL sense. Ask yourself if what the other people featured are making LOGICAL sense.
I'm sure Religulous has been mentioned in this thread already, but I think it's an outstanding overview of why religion/God is an outdated belief and in a perfect world would be non-existent.

2) If you want a more in-depth explanation, read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion."

3) Check out the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, already linked in this thread and ask yourself why God can't be more consistent (or find better people to transcribe his word, or find better people to interpret his word.)
Invalid Link Removed

Yeah, yeah, read it all and watched it all. You don't know me either obviously, I used to be like you. Maybe these stories along with your bad childhood convinced you that there is no God, but I've studied it myself and it's not hard to understand. I don't need those delusional atheist (or some hypocritical church either) to spoon feed me their versions of how they wish it was or think it should be!

Rethink this issue. You're going to die one day, so it's in your best interests to get over yourself now. You think it's a fun game to antagonize stupid christians? The clock is ticking away as your life draws closer to the end with every elapsing second, and you're greatest thrill is spent playing hate games with retards? To each his own I suppose, just seems so lifeless though! Life is now, and you spend your finite, meaningless, atheistic life fighting for the cause of literally nothing, by your own definition. I just don't understand that. Don't you have a girlfriend (or a boyfriend) or something better to do? J/K
:dunno:

I'm not pushing this on anybody, but don't smear your hate on scientific truth just because you had a bad experience with 'relegion'. Two different issues entirely. The fact is, science supports the existence of God, and you STILL haven't made any argument to demonstrate otherwise......... i'll wait.

 

[samva777]

I live according to my principles and I will place them up against yours anyday. I stand by my philosophy of life, and see it reap results and rewards that end up helping peoiple (though this is not my primary motive) every day. Hopefully you can say the same.

You mean like your name on these Forums is this part of your principles DESADE = Invalid Link Removed

Your name says it all the sexual gratification from causing pain and suffering to others , you calling me a monster is a joke.

 

[dsade]

Wow... professionalism spewing left and right in this thread. Glad to see companies carrying themselves well.

Not sure how to interpret your post, DA...however, owning a company does not mean I have to remain silent on issues that concern me as a citizen of the world. I speak my piece (and peace) and stand by it, without necessarily trying to be unprofessional.

However, when the mindset of those that screamed "burn the witch" in Salem shows itself to be thriving, I make no bones that it is still horrifying and should be stamped out.

 

[dsade]

You mean like your name on these Forums is this part of your principles DESADE = Invalid Link Removed

Your name says it all the sexual gratification from causing pain and suffering to others , you calling me a monster is a joke.

I see your logic skills show your viewpoint well...when you fail at alll arguments, bring back the Argumentum Ad Hominem.

And I see your knowledge of the Marquis extends all the way to Wiki - that's some fine scholarship there, Lou.

 

[icebergslim]

I am sick of a minority of people with the biggest mouths telling the majority what they must and should not do. Yes the minority should have rights but not the right to destroy the foundation of my country.

There is truly NOTHING like the most powerful playing the victim.
1) WHO DO YOU THINK HAS BEEN RUNNING THIS COUNTRY? Answer: CHRISTIANS.

2) Atheists are the largest UNREPRESENTED minority in this country, larger than gays and 5 times larger than the Jewish population (and yet we let the Jewish population dictate our Mid-East Foreign Policy.)

3) The founding fathers would completely disagree with you regarding the foundation of this country. Who do you think decided that church and state should be SEPARATE? Yet it has been the antithesis. This country is far more religious now than it ever has been.

We christians have rights too and if the atheist dont like it tough we need to start sticking together

The 2000 Election, anyone? :wtf:

I hope we get a lot more selective about immigration to our christian nation also. Why have people that hate us living amongst us its gone to far and many christians feel like I do.

Is that really what Jesus would do?

There is some serious cognitive dissonance going on in this thread.
BTW, it had been socially accepted that murder is wrong WAY before Christianity came along...but don't let the facts get in the way of your stupid opinions.

 

[samva777]

Well is a lot more

I see your logic skills show your viewpoint well...when you fail at alll arguments, bring back the Argumentum Ad Hominem.

And I see your knowledge of the Marquis extends all the way to Wiki - that's some fine scholarship there, Lou.

Well its a lot more than you have referenced you dont back up anything you say with referenced material you just say its so and we are supposed to believe you because the great Desade has spoken Pleaseeeeeeeee LOL you sir have a huge ego problem and I find you to be extremely arrogant and full of hate for christians or anyone that believes in a supreme being.

 

[dsade]

Well its a lot more than you have referenced you dont back up anything you say with referenced material you just say its so and we are supposed to believe you because the great Desade has spoken Pleaseeeeeeeee LOL you sir have a huge ego problem and I find you to be extremely arrogant and full of hate for christians or anyone that believes in a supreme being.

haha...keep displaying your ignorance and inability to read/comprehend. I hate nothing of the sort.

 

[icebergslim]

Modern science strongly supports the universe having a 'beginning'. Unlike the universe though, God is eternal and infinite. Therefore, there is no imperative that God have a creator, as he is the uncaused first cause. Furthermore, to suppose that because the universe had a cause, the cause of the universe must have had a cause too is a logical dead end! An infinite regression of causes does not answer the question of source, it simply makes the effects more numerous.

You're a doctor, seriously? I would've guessed you were a chiropractor maybe. What mail-order degree did you earn? Ugh. This is a prime example of why I started out just by saying your opinion is idiotic.

The only philosophically plausible possibility is that the universe was made by an unmade Cause greater than itself, and science supports this last remaining possibility. This is the in your face truth, so don't muddy the waters with religion, opinion, morals, etc, just let the ball bounce as it may and be open to where it lands, if you really seek truth that is.

"IT IS BECAUSE I SAY IT IS. THAT IS WHY!"
UGH.

I did (and still do.) I achieved 2 degrees in science actually (Nuclear Biophysics and General Chemistry) before the age of 27, after that I finally read the Bible for the first time.

So you're one of the (I think) 1 percent of scientists that believe in God. I can't say that's a group I'd be proud to be a part of, but congrats.

Ahhh yes, the ol' contradictions cop out game! Some of you Bible haters have made a virtual art form out of exploiting seeming 'discrepancies' in the Biblical details, but your ambiguous protest shows you don't have a clue. The best you can do is link us to somebody else's opinion, since you don't understand the 'contradictions' for yourself? That's pathetic. If you have a legitimate issue, specifically what is it?

What's pathetic is you and you're lame attempts at backing up your opinion. This is you.
"THE WAY I FEEL IS TRUE BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS, IT IS THE WORD OF GOD AFTER ALL"
This is me:
"But "God," in all of his wisdom and perfection, made all of these errors in his book. So, sorry, I don't think that book is worth the paper it's written on."
You:
"ONLY THE PARTS THAT AGREE WITH ME ARE IMPORTANT. THE REST ARE JUST FRIVOLOUS DETAILS. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEM. NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK SAY NO MORE."

And, yeah, it's easier for me to link you to someone that has done all of the work than sit here and debate you on every little point. Frankly you're too dumb to debate with.

If you wanna play atheist, at least present a real argument like any good, self-respecting atheist should.

Because the guy that believes "God" sent himself to earth to be killed before I was even born, so that I'll be forced to worship him or go to the hell which he created for me is the best judge of what is and isn't a "good" atheistic argument. Ugh.

I see. Well I already figured that, friend. That's why I challenged you to get over it by analyzing your own preconceptions, and then be honest with yourself, discounting most of the crap you were likely taught in church. That's not God, that "religion", and it's not always truth, it's often politics and hypocrisy. Maybe that's why I get it and you don't? I wasn't poisoned as a child. I already lived a very, very worldly existence and explored science thoroughly before investigating the Bible. I had no silly precepts or religious resentment to cloud my logic, like you do.

Did you even read what I wrote? You can't be serious with this nonsense.

I must say I agree with you on this point. Some of these people want your money, others really do believe (whether they understand why or not) and yet others are deceived themselves, but I do concede your point. I don't even go to Church though, so you have no excuse to lump me in with hi-five 'christians' trying to push some denominational agenda. But the truth is the truth, and I will defend that.

Blah blah blah, this puts you in the "converting" people category. Thanks.

You are no less wrong going all the way left, as a delusional Christian who goes all the way right, just sayin'. You WILL NOT find truth at either extreme.

Wrong is wrong no matter what you call it. If you think there is a God, you are wrong. If that makes me right, left or any other extreme so be it.

You atheists are so silly, lol, don't you understand that life has no meaning without belief? Go ahead, get on your anti-God soap box though. Drive anarchy to the next level! That will precipitate the greatest war ever seen, when there is no standard anymore. If it's all about evolution and only the strong survive, don't complain when you get what you get though. If there is no God and no eternal standard or consequence, then there is truly no meaning to life and this life is an unintelligent happenstance with only 1 law, survival of the fittest and anything goes.

Cognitive dissonance at it's best.
1) Sure life has meaning without belief. Our genes want to replicate. Any other meaning beyond the furthering of the species you want to put on it is simply your own. People are "significance" junkies, and I see this is why you want to believe so badly.
2) Ugh. You believers are so silly, lol, don't you understand that there is morality without religion? Don't you understand the root cause of the vast majority of wars on this planet? Don't you understand that the Jews and the Palestinians have been at war with each other for hundreds of years because of religion/God, because of a little religions piece of sand? Don't you understand that murder is wrong because, as a species, we have all agreed that it's not cool to kill each other? THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT AND YOU CAN'T EVEN COMPREHEND THAT MUCH. WHY WOULD I POSSIBLY CONTINUE TO ARGUE WITH YOU?

Ugh.


Yeah, yeah, read it all and watched it all. You don't know me either obviously, I used to be like you. Maybe these stories along with your bad childhood convinced you that there is no God, but I've studied it myself and it's not hard to understand. I don't need those delusional atheist (or some hypocritical church either) to spoon feed me their versions of how they wish it was or think it should be!

Rethink this issue. You're going to die one day, so it's in your best interests to get over yourself now. You think it's a fun game to antagonize stupid christians? The clock is ticking away as your life draws closer to the end with every elapsing second, and you're greatest thrill is spent playing hate games with retards? To each his own I suppose, just seems so lifeless though! Life is now, and you spend your finite, meaningless, atheistic life fighting for the cause of literally nothing, by your own definition. I just don't understand that. Don't you have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend, or something better to do?
:dunno:

I'm not pushing this on anybody, but don't smear your hate on scientific truth just because you had a bad experience with 'relegion'. Two different issues entirely. The fact is, science supports the existence of God, and you STILL haven't made any argument to demonstrate otherwise......... i'll wait.[/QUOTE]

 

[DR.D]

So you're one of the (I think) 1 percent of scientists that believe in God. I can't say that's a group I'd be proud to be a part of, but congrats.

Thanks. Pos reps for slim! :wave2:

If you've made up your mind, so be it. I won't preach to you anymore. On the same token, refraining from your 'idiotic' statements regarding my posts would ensure that mutual respect going forward.

 

[samva777]

Company Envy

haha...keep displaying your ignorance and inability to read/comprehend. I hate nothing of the sort.

You know the more I read back in this forum and the way I see you attack Doctor D I am beginning to think alot of this argument has little to do with religion and more to do with professional envy , as you try to make Doctor D look bad and you try to use the vernacular of a scientist which you are not!hell your syntax approaches maybe 4th grade level even a bubba like me can see whats going on. Doctor D works for a rival company and Doctor D has a degree in Chemistry , and has a huge following in his advice on pulsing the same supplement your company sells. The company Doctor D works for sells a rival supplement thats exactly the same as yours but you dont have the schooling Doctor D has so you must discredit him where you think he is weakest.

You called me an animal I find you despicable and PATHETIC

 

[B5150]

We're done here.