dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Ahhh...apparently we hae the foremost authority that has ever existed here to tell us what the absolute, unambigous "true set of beliefs" is.
Please enlighten the world and end countless wars.
Does science support the existence of God?
- Thread starter DR.D
- Start date
- Status
Please enlighten the world and end countless wars.
samva777
Member
I disagree , how does an atheist have any moral code , give me 1 standardized set of beliefs an atheist has that is universal to atheist. I can easily give you one that christains universaly follow the 10 commandments and there are many more ethical commands in the bible on lesser sins. When I was kid the laws were much stricter on ethics, such as if you committed Adultery both of the people ivolved could be arrested as it could destroy a family over 1 persons weakness. Now it doesnt matter do what ever feels good so what if hurts people on the periphery its my right how dare you take my right away. These sayings are just a symtom of whats wrong many times what a person considers as an individual right , is not so individual it hurts other people.
Desade are whole Penal system is based on fear and punishment its human nature to not want to get punished at the end of the day when ethical morality fails the last bullwork to civilization is fear of punishment , yes people should do good not based on fear but on treating other people the way they want to be treated.
Lastly God looks at us as children and if we break the rules he punishes us not out of vindictiveness but out of love to show us the error of are ways no less than a parent should do.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
no offene, but your first 2 paragraphs have been beaten to death.
Your last, though, brings up an interesting question....how may years in hel does it take to show error of ways?
after this,is the soul brought up to heaven, now wise and appreciative? BEcause if the point was to show error of ways, and not vindictiveness, then there would be no eternal punishment.
samva777
Member
My Opinion
Bro there are degrees to most things some people are more wicked than others. The training ground is on this earth once the day of reckoning comes the book of life and the book of death are opened and Justice is dispensed, Punishment is for this world ,Justice is after this world. Justice also must prove to the victims of the perpetrators that there is a day of reckoning and people are held accountable by God.
Let me make sure I said this correctly so no misunderstanding on anyones part because I know I am going to take flak for this and not just from Brother Desade. Punishment is in this world God wont bless the wicked in this world let me add God works in mysterious ways so the punishemnt might be subtle or not , after this world the books are opened and Judgement is passed in my faith there is no everlasting burning you are resurrected judged before God and his court and you either go to heaven or you are burned to death and lose everlasting life but proving to those faithful that God is Just and will not let the wicked commune with the faithful and just. The Wages of sin are death.
Now there are many subtle interpretations on this and I will probably be the first to tell you my faith could be wrong but for me its splitting hairs in the end the evidence points to negative things occuring to the wicked and God protecting those who have a heart in Gods reasoning meaning they understand Love is greater than wickedness even though man is naturally wicked.
Lastly in the end God will save anyone who truly sees the error of there ways. Not because someone says oh I am sorry forgive me , they must truly have this in there heart not just parrot this as God can look into anyones heart and know if they are sincere I dont think anyone achieves this with out many trials and tribulations , so the thought by some that a person can just speak words and all is forgiven is not exactly true in my opinion. Its about whats in your heart and not taking the path of least resistance which I know is human nature but thats what being a christian is about taking the harder path becuase its the right thing to do not what you want to do.
Bro there are degrees to most things some people are more wicked than others. The training ground is on this earth once the day of reckoning comes the book of life and the book of death are opened and Justice is dispensed, Punishment is for this world ,Justice is after this world. Justice also must prove to the victims of the perpetrators that there is a day of reckoning and people are held accountable by God.
Let me make sure I said this correctly so no misunderstanding on anyones part because I know I am going to take flak for this and not just from Brother Desade. Punishment is in this world God wont bless the wicked in this world let me add God works in mysterious ways so the punishemnt might be subtle or not , after this world the books are opened and Judgement is passed in my faith there is no everlasting burning you are resurrected judged before God and his court and you either go to heaven or you are burned to death and lose everlasting life but proving to those faithful that God is Just and will not let the wicked commune with the faithful and just. The Wages of sin are death.
Now there are many subtle interpretations on this and I will probably be the first to tell you my faith could be wrong but for me its splitting hairs in the end the evidence points to negative things occuring to the wicked and God protecting those who have a heart in Gods reasoning meaning they understand Love is greater than wickedness even though man is naturally wicked.
Lastly in the end God will save anyone who truly sees the error of there ways. Not because someone says oh I am sorry forgive me , they must truly have this in there heart not just parrot this as God can look into anyones heart and know if they are sincere I dont think anyone achieves this with out many trials and tribulations , so the thought by some that a person can just speak words and all is forgiven is not exactly true in my opinion. Its about whats in your heart and not taking the path of least resistance which I know is human nature but thats what being a christian is about taking the harder path becuase its the right thing to do not what you want to do.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Christians do not have a monopoly on this concept, therefore it is not a "christian" concept but rather the basis of most moral codes that predated and antedated christianity.
russianstar
Well-known member
We should worship god out of love and appreciation for what he has done for us, it goes two ways, god is pleased by exclusive and self sacraficing love for him, without the want for anything in return, just from the gratitude that he has given us life, and the oppurtunity to redeem our sins through his sons death.
For me personaly, i would want to do anything and everything for somone who had sacraficed or given me something as special and as important as his own sons life, to be able to see in clour, its not necessary for life, but it makes life more enjoyable, to be able to appreciate music, the endorphins that are released through physical exertion, all these things are something to be gratefull for, and countless others.
I also believe we should worship god the way he has asked, not choose how we think he wants to be worshipped, the bible gives a very detailed view of gods thoughts on worship, he tells us that true worship means having faith, faith needs to be supported by actions, for how else would somone show they have faith, for words are easy to speak, but evidence of faith shows dedication, motivation, zeal, hope, love, so many things.
Dsade said..
Problem: There are thousands of religions in the world - all with equal evidence (none) and all claiming the same thing (at their core). You are choosing to pick one out of thousands with the penalty for choosing WRONG to be damnation as a heretic - not just a skeptical non-believer
That is a very sweeping statement, there are in fact over 1 million religions who all choose to worship god in the way they feel god wants to be worshipped, instead of worshipping god the way he wants.
True religion has many things pointing it out to be different, for example love amongst themselves, not fighting in wars as lives are not mans to take, and blood is sacred so shouldnt be spilled, showing by their works they are believers, willing to die for their faith and never compromising, trying to help, and offering assistance both spiritualy and physicaly of people of all denominations, and races, of any background, and from any minority, just as god does, also in using his name in their worship and not replacing it with a title. These are some of the aspects of true worship.
You said there is no evidence, i say the evidence is blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence, a new bornbaby, that has developed in the womb, the changing of a caterpillar into a butterfly, the sunset, the beauty of the natural world, the human eye, the vastness of space, they way the earth is positioned perfectly to support life, the degree of tilt on its axis ensures life, just 2 degrees different and over 3 quarters of the earths land mass would be desert, 2 degrees the other way and 3 quarters would be constantly iced over.
The many gases that make up the earths atmosphere all ensure life, the eco system, if this is not evidence enough of a creator of a god then what is.. Maybe this will help, hold up your hand, now blow on your fingers, you cant see anything, but you can feel it, just like the wind, just like the air around us, we know it exists by its effect upon us, or upon the tree leaves etc, In the same way we know god exists by he effect god has on everything around us, even our own ability to reason, to be able to choose, we are not just governed by instinct like other animate creations, we are not just living according to divine mathematical principles like the inanimate stars and planets, no we can all choose, choose to see what is so obvious its right in front of our eyes, or choose to be ignorant, its each individuals choice, but i have made mine firmly.
The outcome of your choice is not for any individual to decide, or to say, for none of us can read the heart, it is gods choice, and his sons who lived upon this earth and knows our toils, and it is only they who can see our heart, our desires, our motives.
Also samva said...
Lastly God looks at us as children and if we break the rules he punishes us not out of vindictiveness but out of love to show us the error of are ways no less than a parent should do,
No god does not punish us, we blame god for things that go wrong, thinking its punishment, but at the moment god has no direct dealings with man, he ffers guidance through his divine principles, but he does not take action now, the world we live in is not ruled by the true god...does it look like it is, with all the hurt, all the pain? It is ruled by someone who challenged gods authority, someone who declared himself gods equal, and capable of ruling the earth, satan has failed, and his hordes who chose to follow satan, and who cause a lot of the pain and suffering on the earth, will be destroyed soon, that is why it is important to choose now who we follow, the false religions of the earth who are under satans command, or the one true religion on earth.
For me personaly, i would want to do anything and everything for somone who had sacraficed or given me something as special and as important as his own sons life, to be able to see in clour, its not necessary for life, but it makes life more enjoyable, to be able to appreciate music, the endorphins that are released through physical exertion, all these things are something to be gratefull for, and countless others.
I also believe we should worship god the way he has asked, not choose how we think he wants to be worshipped, the bible gives a very detailed view of gods thoughts on worship, he tells us that true worship means having faith, faith needs to be supported by actions, for how else would somone show they have faith, for words are easy to speak, but evidence of faith shows dedication, motivation, zeal, hope, love, so many things.
Dsade said..
Problem: There are thousands of religions in the world - all with equal evidence (none) and all claiming the same thing (at their core). You are choosing to pick one out of thousands with the penalty for choosing WRONG to be damnation as a heretic - not just a skeptical non-believer
That is a very sweeping statement, there are in fact over 1 million religions who all choose to worship god in the way they feel god wants to be worshipped, instead of worshipping god the way he wants.
True religion has many things pointing it out to be different, for example love amongst themselves, not fighting in wars as lives are not mans to take, and blood is sacred so shouldnt be spilled, showing by their works they are believers, willing to die for their faith and never compromising, trying to help, and offering assistance both spiritualy and physicaly of people of all denominations, and races, of any background, and from any minority, just as god does, also in using his name in their worship and not replacing it with a title. These are some of the aspects of true worship.
You said there is no evidence, i say the evidence is blatantly obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence, a new bornbaby, that has developed in the womb, the changing of a caterpillar into a butterfly, the sunset, the beauty of the natural world, the human eye, the vastness of space, they way the earth is positioned perfectly to support life, the degree of tilt on its axis ensures life, just 2 degrees different and over 3 quarters of the earths land mass would be desert, 2 degrees the other way and 3 quarters would be constantly iced over.
The many gases that make up the earths atmosphere all ensure life, the eco system, if this is not evidence enough of a creator of a god then what is.. Maybe this will help, hold up your hand, now blow on your fingers, you cant see anything, but you can feel it, just like the wind, just like the air around us, we know it exists by its effect upon us, or upon the tree leaves etc, In the same way we know god exists by he effect god has on everything around us, even our own ability to reason, to be able to choose, we are not just governed by instinct like other animate creations, we are not just living according to divine mathematical principles like the inanimate stars and planets, no we can all choose, choose to see what is so obvious its right in front of our eyes, or choose to be ignorant, its each individuals choice, but i have made mine firmly.
The outcome of your choice is not for any individual to decide, or to say, for none of us can read the heart, it is gods choice, and his sons who lived upon this earth and knows our toils, and it is only they who can see our heart, our desires, our motives.
Also samva said...
Lastly God looks at us as children and if we break the rules he punishes us not out of vindictiveness but out of love to show us the error of are ways no less than a parent should do,
No god does not punish us, we blame god for things that go wrong, thinking its punishment, but at the moment god has no direct dealings with man, he ffers guidance through his divine principles, but he does not take action now, the world we live in is not ruled by the true god...does it look like it is, with all the hurt, all the pain? It is ruled by someone who challenged gods authority, someone who declared himself gods equal, and capable of ruling the earth, satan has failed, and his hordes who chose to follow satan, and who cause a lot of the pain and suffering on the earth, will be destroyed soon, that is why it is important to choose now who we follow, the false religions of the earth who are under satans command, or the one true religion on earth.
russianstar
Well-known member
Dsade said...Your last, though, brings up an interesting question....how may years in hel does it take to show error of ways?
after this,is the soul brought up to heaven, now wise and appreciative? BEcause if the point was to show error of ways, and not vindictiveness, then there would be no eternal punishment
Again this concept is not from the bible, i can read greek and hebrew, and i have studied since i was a young boy the original dead sea scrolls, there is no eternal fiery destruction when we die, the bible makes it clear.
There are 3 graves in the bible mentioned, Hades= this is the common grave we all go too when we die, Gehenna,= this word comes from the greek word meaning eternal destruction, once somone is sent here by god they die, never with the oppurtunity of ressurection. The abyss, This is where jesus went when he died, so as not too decay like normal humans, and he wasnt a sinner like us so he went to a special place so that he could not have his flesh corrupted be decay, after 3 days he was raised as a spirit.
Hell was invented in the dark ages by kings and priests who wanted there subjects to be intimidated into service, the practice is not one supported by the true god, or the true translation of the bible, the New world translation of the holy scriptures.
The same way the trinity was invented and is not supported by the bible. Revelation warns not to add or take anything from the scriptures, not to twist verses for your own means.
We will not be going to heaven either, if god deems us fit and meek, then the bible promises we will inherit the earth, but we will become perfect and live forever, also all those in their memorial tombs will come on out, and be ressurected exactly as they were when they died, the same memories, the same person, with there original life force from god, showing once again gods love and care for us, all this is in the bible, all of it is available to read, ive read 4 versions of the bible, the only difference is some leave gods name out, ut the information is there, and is the same, Recently the catholic church withdrew its teaching of hell fire..why, because it wasnt scriptual, as we speak they are reviewing the trinity teaching.
after this,is the soul brought up to heaven, now wise and appreciative? BEcause if the point was to show error of ways, and not vindictiveness, then there would be no eternal punishment
Again this concept is not from the bible, i can read greek and hebrew, and i have studied since i was a young boy the original dead sea scrolls, there is no eternal fiery destruction when we die, the bible makes it clear.
There are 3 graves in the bible mentioned, Hades= this is the common grave we all go too when we die, Gehenna,= this word comes from the greek word meaning eternal destruction, once somone is sent here by god they die, never with the oppurtunity of ressurection. The abyss, This is where jesus went when he died, so as not too decay like normal humans, and he wasnt a sinner like us so he went to a special place so that he could not have his flesh corrupted be decay, after 3 days he was raised as a spirit.
Hell was invented in the dark ages by kings and priests who wanted there subjects to be intimidated into service, the practice is not one supported by the true god, or the true translation of the bible, the New world translation of the holy scriptures.
The same way the trinity was invented and is not supported by the bible. Revelation warns not to add or take anything from the scriptures, not to twist verses for your own means.
We will not be going to heaven either, if god deems us fit and meek, then the bible promises we will inherit the earth, but we will become perfect and live forever, also all those in their memorial tombs will come on out, and be ressurected exactly as they were when they died, the same memories, the same person, with there original life force from god, showing once again gods love and care for us, all this is in the bible, all of it is available to read, ive read 4 versions of the bible, the only difference is some leave gods name out, ut the information is there, and is the same, Recently the catholic church withdrew its teaching of hell fire..why, because it wasnt scriptual, as we speak they are reviewing the trinity teaching.
samva777
Member
Very Similar
Bro thats close to the particulars of what I believe but do the Particulars really matter , at the end of the day if we are soldiers of God what does it matter if someone is mistaken slightly , the forces that hate God want to divide fallable humans , muddy the water do anything to hurt gods creation and the righteous. There are only 2 sides and what really matters is which side you pick.
Bro thats close to the particulars of what I believe but do the Particulars really matter , at the end of the day if we are soldiers of God what does it matter if someone is mistaken slightly , the forces that hate God want to divide fallable humans , muddy the water do anything to hurt gods creation and the righteous. There are only 2 sides and what really matters is which side you pick.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
no offense, but that is a highly simplistic viewpoint. The world and its myriad situations are not easily distilled into black and white.
EESCHMan
Member
What's wrong with you?!
spiritual war, protect you from the heathens...jeez louise!
Did you go to "Jesus Camp?"
have you seen the recent study that found that frequent church goers support torture?
and you call atheists wicked?!
I would like to see people like you in your own theocratic state where abortion was illegal, stem cell research was banned, and gay people had no rights...
Just make sure we put up a giant wall to prevent you guys from trying to get our medical cures from stem cell research.
You also realize that the most religious states have the highest teen pregnancy rates despite your "values."
Oh, and they also have the most people that view porn.
(and why is your post in this thread anyway? has nothing to do with science)
russianstar
Well-known member
I dont want to promote an argument here, i think everyone must choose the path they are want to go down, difficult or not, whatever each individual chooses i think violence should never be used to make a point, or to force others to do what you are doing, how could that be right or ethical?
Wickedness is prevelant amongst those supposed doers of good, and often the ones thought of as being bad, have had terrible circumstances and have made bad choices, there is a difference between wicked and weak, some willfully do what is wrong knowing its wrong, others do it not knowing it is.
Samva..
The bible does not tell you to segregate yourself from non- believers, where does it say that? It says to preach to all those on earth, not to argue, but to teach, if people dont want to listen, it is their choice, if they do it is also their choice, we cannot force our beliefs upon others, we can reason yes, but they must make their own willfull choice one way or the other. However it is our responsibilty as believers to offer that oppurtunity, And just because people are "religous" does it mean they are parcticing what they preach? Do they live by the right standards? Their are many non-believers who have better moral principles than those who profess to be a christian, christian means footstep followers of christ, but their footsteps wander and choos their own course.
And this spiritual warfare you speak of, yes it does exist for what is right and wrong means 2 sides that are opposed, the right side and all those against are wrong, but we do not judge, we may hate the acts others perform, but we show our true colours by what we do.
Wickedness is prevelant amongst those supposed doers of good, and often the ones thought of as being bad, have had terrible circumstances and have made bad choices, there is a difference between wicked and weak, some willfully do what is wrong knowing its wrong, others do it not knowing it is.
Samva..
The bible does not tell you to segregate yourself from non- believers, where does it say that? It says to preach to all those on earth, not to argue, but to teach, if people dont want to listen, it is their choice, if they do it is also their choice, we cannot force our beliefs upon others, we can reason yes, but they must make their own willfull choice one way or the other. However it is our responsibilty as believers to offer that oppurtunity, And just because people are "religous" does it mean they are parcticing what they preach? Do they live by the right standards? Their are many non-believers who have better moral principles than those who profess to be a christian, christian means footstep followers of christ, but their footsteps wander and choos their own course.
And this spiritual warfare you speak of, yes it does exist for what is right and wrong means 2 sides that are opposed, the right side and all those against are wrong, but we do not judge, we may hate the acts others perform, but we show our true colours by what we do.
russianstar
Well-known member
I shall see if i can download it, thankyou.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Exposed as a liar on many points. google.
Great disciple of Paul, though, because lying is ok as long as you get converts from it.
DR.D
Well-known member
Have you seen the movie? It's a documentary, how do you lie with that? It's all there for everyone to see. He's just interviewing scientists, so you can form your own conclusions at the end.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
How can a documentary lie??? Have you seen anything that Michael Moore has made?
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For those who lack google skills.
DR.D
Well-known member
So you have seen the movie?
russianstar
Well-known member
I think everything should be taken with a pinch of salt, most documentarys are there to further the writer or producers purpose, often only giving one side of the coin, i am downloading both to watch, thanks for pointing them out, its good to learn.
samva777
Member
Its Obvious
Bro DeSade has an a secret reason to antagonise the faithful , what the reason is i dont know but until he stops answering questions with other questions I am going to ignore him and the other God haters.
Many times I ask him a question and he just ignores it a sign of deception.
Bro DeSade has an a secret reason to antagonise the faithful , what the reason is i dont know but until he stops answering questions with other questions I am going to ignore him and the other God haters.
Many times I ask him a question and he just ignores it a sign of deception.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
No, it shows that you haven't read the thread from beginning, nor are you keeping the discussion in scientific terms. Determination of truth within those defined parameters is what we are discussing, and whether anything supernatural, or without clear evidence, can fit in there.
Dr. D knows my motivation, as we have discussed it publicly and privately.
samva777
Member
You can preach to non beleivers till your blue in the face its ok but the bible commands segregation from non believers in everyday life much less having 1 in your family God forbid.
Start backing up what you say with scripture Bro but like I say , I would rather live around someone I have few disagreements with than someone whos ideas and way of life is totaly alien to me. I wont subject my family friends or my self to the pollution the profane try to pass off as good.
Here is a scripture on seperation from the Godless that the bible commands.
2 Corinthians 6:16-17 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord , and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you
Read 2 Corinthians 6:14- 17 the 2 verses I gave you gives the crux of the matter but you can read more if you like.
As you can see in scripture God looks at unbelievers as unclean and commands us not to be yoked together with them even going as far as to say what concord has christ with Belial Belial = Satan and equating the same with an infidel.
There is your scrip Russian Star but like I say I wont argue this point with you better to just know we both believe and let God sort out the particulars later , I wont be divided from a believer by non believers as they relish this.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
ahhh...the perfect example of tolerance and the golden rule. see why we say your professed beliefs are full of crap?
Is that treating someone as you wish to be treated? loving thy neighbor.
banish thyself, hypocrite.
andrew732
Well-known member
SEE, that verse explains that we as Christians are to sway away from worldly activites and not commit the actions we see others do or partake in worldly actions with them, but do we ignore them or treat them as an untouchable, NO. We must love everyone the same regardless of beliefs and ways of being.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
While i still think that inherent in yopur viewpoint is stll a contradiction (somehow you still feel a sense of superiority), the practice is respectable.
andrew732
Well-known member
Well I do understand that this is a thread upon a debate, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, where you get that we feel SUPERIOR to anyone, everyone is the same in God's eyes. God is love, without love we can not bear the fruits of Christ. I personally take it offensive that you are imposing that we as Christians feel we better than everyone else. IT's simple as I said before, God requires obedience just as the law requires obedience from its citzenship, if we do not follow, then there are consequences. By us not partaking in things against God, we are completing obedience to him.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
too complicated to type on this pos phone, but you do deserve an explanation. I'll type out a mor thorough response from homew.
MuscleBound1337
Active member
I highly recommend this documentary by Richard Dawkins.
Part 1
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Part 2
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I love this guy, his book "The God Delusion" is well written aswel.
Part 1
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Part 2
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I love this guy, his book "The God Delusion" is well written aswel.
isoc
Member
In reference to seperate and Christianity, both Russian and Samva are correct in a way. Our calling as a Christian is to promote salvation through faith in Jesus, to be a witness to all people, Russian is correct. However, we are called to be in the world witnessing, but not of the world, we are to be seperate in the way we act, and our motivations, and this is the testimony to those who do not believe. I am not in this thread to show myself as right or someone else as wrong, I am here for one reason and one only, to promote Jesus Christ, and to bring Him into this thread. Another example, a very good moral person may help someone out, they may be thinking either wow I am such a good person, or this act will help me get into Heaven, and both instances the focus is on self, and that other person is helped for the time being, but without bringing God into it, that help is only temporary, not eternal. A Christian may do the same act, but thank God for providing whatever was needed to help out loud, make comment about Bible, whatever, bringing God into the situation and hopefully opening the person up to salvation and eternal help. That is the example of a Christian act vs just a moral act and how Christians shoud be in the world, but have seperate motivations as well as actions. Do I do this all the time, no, I am not perfect, but I do try.
I also agree, and have stated many times, that arguing this is not good and I do hope that people are not getting angry or offended, especially Christians. We should not be getting angry at those who do not believe, or think less of them. What seperates us from them?, belief in Jesus Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit in our life, nothing we have earned, nothing that is given to us because we are special, those are free to any who decide to believe. We should glory in nothing of ourselves, as we are the same as those who have not yet believed (except for the grace of God in our lives, which is of Him and not us) and have all been in their position before. I have not lost any respect for Dsade or anyone else who has taken the position of unbelief, we should pray for them, and hope that maybe a seed has been planted, and pray for God to give increase, whether they like it or not! (Just kidding that last part, I do pray but not meant to be offensive to anyone.)
I also agree, and have stated many times, that arguing this is not good and I do hope that people are not getting angry or offended, especially Christians. We should not be getting angry at those who do not believe, or think less of them. What seperates us from them?, belief in Jesus Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit in our life, nothing we have earned, nothing that is given to us because we are special, those are free to any who decide to believe. We should glory in nothing of ourselves, as we are the same as those who have not yet believed (except for the grace of God in our lives, which is of Him and not us) and have all been in their position before. I have not lost any respect for Dsade or anyone else who has taken the position of unbelief, we should pray for them, and hope that maybe a seed has been planted, and pray for God to give increase, whether they like it or not! (Just kidding that last part, I do pray but not meant to be offensive to anyone.)
EESCHMan
Member
Considering the "point" of this thread WAS whether science supports the existence of god, I don't think your post, or especially Christian Soldier, SAMVA777, belongs here.
Read the beginning of the thread for examples...
I don't think us non-believers go into the "Prayer" Threads and post how god doesn't exist, so unless you have some scientific evidence for god, please stop with your scripture quotes and preaching.
I have tried to stay out of these threads (recently) because it's pointless...you will NEVER convince me that god exists (especially quoting Bible Verses), and those who use Bible Quotes are most likely never going to listen to reason (though there are evangelical priests that are now atheists, so never say never!)
REALLY religious people even say that there is no evidence that will convince them that there isn't a god.
So, what is the point with debating people like that?!
I (as I'm sure many atheists/agnostics) would believe in a god if there were ANY proof (REAL miracles - amputee growing a limb, huge asteriod heading toward earth deflected at the last moment (haha), people invisibly plucked out of a tsunami to safety) but there hasn't been any.
It's odd that all the miracles in the Bible haven't been duplicated in recent times when they could be verified.
And Samva777, who said:
I would love to see this "perfect" group you live in where nobody does anything "bad."
Oh, and by the way, you probably wouldn't even know someone's an atheist, as they don't usually go around shouting it (especially in the south, where I USED to live).
And the fact that the people now saying they are "non-religious" is growing must be frightening to you.
Where is your proof of "the pollution the profane try to pass off as good?"
I can give you plenty of proof of so-called religious people doing bad things.
You never responded to my post that the most religious states have the highest teen pregnancy rates, or view the most porn.
Also the fact that the percentage of "Christians" in the prison system is proportionately higher than atheists.
Why is that, since Christians are so much MORE moral?
I'd love to know your background...
were you born into religion?
were you a bad person, then "found god" like so many others?
where is this perfect Christian Community that you live in where non-believers are shunned?
isoc
Member
you may be correct as far as my post not belonging here per the original spirit of the thread, as far as background, raised Catholic, fell away from church, hit a very low point and at the time was dating a gal who was attended a Baptist church and as they say the rest is history, and there is no perfect community anywhere, Christian or not, as humans are not perfect.
Simple answer to the question posed at the beginning of the thread is that science will never completely prove or disprove the existence of God, and you are correct that those whose mind is made up will not be moved by what either side says. I have presented "evidence" in past posts hoping that someone on the fence will be intrigued and maybe take the next step and investigate more and make a decision, and other posts have been made to aid in spiritual growth for those who may be searching. You are not, your decision, and you are free to choose however you see fit.
Simple answer to the question posed at the beginning of the thread is that science will never completely prove or disprove the existence of God, and you are correct that those whose mind is made up will not be moved by what either side says. I have presented "evidence" in past posts hoping that someone on the fence will be intrigued and maybe take the next step and investigate more and make a decision, and other posts have been made to aid in spiritual growth for those who may be searching. You are not, your decision, and you are free to choose however you see fit.
B5150
Legend
"All we are is dust in the wind, Dudes" Ted Logan
russianstar
Well-known member
Interesting, as the bible says we are like chaff in the wind, or dust upon the weighing scales.
I am sorry if anyone took what i was saying as arguing, i enjoy a good disscussion.. maybe if i make 1 point, a scientific point, and then you guys can say your responses, then hopefully we can all say what we want, and not go off the subject.
Non believers suggest that perhaps science doesnt support a god, so please think of this then reply with your thoughts.
In new zealand they have a bird called the long tailed koel, when its time for breeding, this species of cukoo goes and puts its egg in another birds nest then flies to polynesia leaving the egg behind, the baby bird when it hatches quickly out grows the other chicks and before long leaves and flies across the sea too polynesia taking over 80 hours to fly non stop, it flys straight to its parents and nests with them through the winter, thats my first example of what i believe to be proof of an intelligent creator.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
You missed a few steps.
It's definitely curious, and quite interesting, but as far as proof it is not. It simply is a fact.
And with a tongue-in-cheek response, the baby cuckoos proceed to murder the correct young of the "hosts" (cuckoos are parasites) in order to hog all of the resources for itself. I present this as proof of NO omnibenevolent creator.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Please do not use the BTEA dialogue in vain.
icebergslim
New member
The original post and subsequent posts defending it are mind-numbingly dumb. Wow.
icebergslim
New member
What about a bird flying is proof of an intelligent creator? :wtf:
EESCHMan
Member
Ha...that's what I was thinking when I read that post.
EESCHMan
Member
Isoc,
my post was mainly directed to samva777 as he seems to be as close to a militant Christian (Soldier) as I've seen on these boards.
Just to reiterate, I have no problems with religious people, except when they attempt to:
1) argue that science has proven the existence of god
2) impose their beliefs onto others
other than that, I could care less what they (you) believe, just as I'm sure a majority of religious people could care less than I don't believe in god, as I am/have always been, a good person and treat others as I want to be treated.
DmitryWI
I know nothing...
Wow, I find your type of people are the most dangerous. You became so self-righteous and you think everyone must adapt your belief system. This is exactly how many wars got started and millions of people got killed in the name of your religion.
I have many wonderful Christian friends, but I'll stay away from brainwashed maniacs like yourself.
DmitryWI
I know nothing...
Nice first post, idiot.
DR.D
Well-known member
Well cranial numbness is not good! Since you're self admittedly brain dead, perhaps I can state it more simply for all the mentally challenged atheists like you, and you can manage to find a few latent brain cells left to fathom it? Otherwise, if you're really just an intelligent, God hating skeptic, you can stop reading this now.
Philosophical naturalism (the worldview supporting evolutionism) can provide only 3 explanations for the existence of the universe:
First, the universe is merely an illusion. Clearly this notion carries little scientific weight in such a modern age of enlightenment.
Second, the universe sprang from nothing, but this proposition flies in the face of 2 very important scientific laws (cause and effect & conservation of energy.) As has been said many times before, "nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could." In other words, there are no free lunches my friend. The very conditions that hold true this universe, also prevent any possibility of matter springing from nothingness.
Third, the universe has always existed. This means that a universe that has eternally existed would have died out an 'eternity ago' from expansion and subsequent heat loss, thus fatally wounding this hypothesis as well.
There is however one other possibility. It's found in the first chapter of the first book of the bible - of all places! "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth." In this age of empirical science, it seems Intelligent Design is the most viable theory available.
Believe me, I know how you feel. It numbs your mind to even consider that you've been wrong about this you're whole life. Hey, if it's any consolation, the Bible was the LAST place I thought to look for answers too.
Oh well, it still is what it is. Don't be so arrogant and reluctant to test your precepts! You have been lied to, by scientists who have prostituted the truth (mainly for conventional fear or grant money greed) and it makes me sick.antlhuede
New member
Personally, i dont think about this topic unless its presented to me. I find it much more enjoyable to take my life as it comes, knowing that if there was reason and order to this world placed on it by a greater being, then that being would also be supportive of my actions, and if there is no order or reason to this world placed on it by a greater being, then my actions are improving the lives of others, the only life they will live.
Either way, people who believe in god should follow their scriptures more and argue their point less, because it is all about being good to one another, helping each other succeed and progress through life, whether its day by day trying to stay well fed, or striving to further ones self/family in any aspect of life.
Wouldnt you be happy with your life either way? knowing your going to heaven, or knowing your helping people with their singular existence, giving someone a good feeling or making someone happy in their only time of feeling or consciousness?
For this kind of life all you need to do is be good to people. No matter what religion you believe in, in my opinion it is merely a path to happiness in this existence (whether there is life after death or not). Whether its karma or the words of Jesus you listen to, what goes around comes around / treat others as you would like to be treated. That is the most important message of our time, and worrying about anything more than that is (in my opinion) a waste of time and energy.
Either way, people who believe in god should follow their scriptures more and argue their point less, because it is all about being good to one another, helping each other succeed and progress through life, whether its day by day trying to stay well fed, or striving to further ones self/family in any aspect of life.
Wouldnt you be happy with your life either way? knowing your going to heaven, or knowing your helping people with their singular existence, giving someone a good feeling or making someone happy in their only time of feeling or consciousness?
For this kind of life all you need to do is be good to people. No matter what religion you believe in, in my opinion it is merely a path to happiness in this existence (whether there is life after death or not). Whether its karma or the words of Jesus you listen to, what goes around comes around / treat others as you would like to be treated. That is the most important message of our time, and worrying about anything more than that is (in my opinion) a waste of time and energy.
samva777
Member
Where are the facts
The Facts are more people have been slaughtered by non believers I.E. Nazis , Communist. I might add in communism part of the platform is being an atheist the Russian communist killed 61,000,000.00 people if you add up Russian Reds , chinese Reds cambodian Reds North Korea and Yugoslavia it ends up being around 110,000,000.00 all this from communist whos platform demands Atheism. No religious war even come close to this number , the bottom line is the atheist have little regard for human life because there ethical belief system is Godless with no higher authority to answer to.
Lets not forget the additional millions of murdered babys that Godless people have murdered everyyear.
Do I want to be around and have dealings with people that have this type of track record , I think not. They could hurt my family or freinds and not care 1 bit as they have no consience.
Lastly they have nothing to fear from me I just dont want to be around them the only thing I am sad for is the countless murders they perpetrate on there own kind IE there babys being aborted as the babys never get a chance at life.
The Facts are more people have been slaughtered by non believers I.E. Nazis , Communist. I might add in communism part of the platform is being an atheist the Russian communist killed 61,000,000.00 people if you add up Russian Reds , chinese Reds cambodian Reds North Korea and Yugoslavia it ends up being around 110,000,000.00 all this from communist whos platform demands Atheism. No religious war even come close to this number , the bottom line is the atheist have little regard for human life because there ethical belief system is Godless with no higher authority to answer to.
Lets not forget the additional millions of murdered babys that Godless people have murdered everyyear.
Do I want to be around and have dealings with people that have this type of track record , I think not. They could hurt my family or freinds and not care 1 bit as they have no consience.
Lastly they have nothing to fear from me I just dont want to be around them the only thing I am sad for is the countless murders they perpetrate on there own kind IE there babys being aborted as the babys never get a chance at life.
B5150
Legend
Interesting.
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." 1 Peter 3:15
samva777
Member
I never said that
LOL where did you get the idea that I said you or anyone had to adopt my belief system. All I am saying is I wont adopt your belief system and I dont want to have anything to do with atheist. Here let me repeat it so you will quit putting words into my mouth for me. I dont want to have any relations with atheist they can do as they please to themselfs and there own kind but there rights end where mine begin and 1 of my rights is to choose who I will be around or do business with or have any relations with or who my children will be around.
LOL where did you get the idea that I said you or anyone had to adopt my belief system. All I am saying is I wont adopt your belief system and I dont want to have anything to do with atheist. Here let me repeat it so you will quit putting words into my mouth for me. I dont want to have any relations with atheist they can do as they please to themselfs and there own kind but there rights end where mine begin and 1 of my rights is to choose who I will be around or do business with or have any relations with or who my children will be around.
B5150
Legend
Christ entertained the likes of you and me...not quite his kind.
Christ Jesus, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself
DmitryWI
I know nothing...
It's not about being believer or non-believer, it's about attitude. Hitler honestly thought he was doing good for his Country, for his people.
Are you ****ing kidding me? Seriously, dude, stop making such ridiculous assumptions. It makes you sound such a douche.
I don't even know what to say... You hit all time low in my eyes...
- Status