The one, The only....THE ONE!

1HP said:
Clomid for prolactin induced gyno, nolva for estro induced gyno, this does sound like estro induced gyno. Prolactin should cause leaky nips, estro lumps/puffy nips. Would be nice to be 100% sure on this. You can start the ATD at once. Nolva would be best if it's indeed estro induced. You should start asap though.

Funny thing though, The One is actually eradicating my gyno..
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I have i3c,p5p, inhibit-e, nolva, 6oxo... what are your thoughts man? Run the cycle with those in there? or stop the cycle and start the serm etc?
 
Craigmatthew said:
I have i3c,p5p, inhibit-e, nolva, 6oxo... what are your thoughts man? Run the cycle with those in there? or stop the cycle and start the serm etc?
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Fuk man, I hope you dont have to stop mid cycle. that would suck serious ass. hopefully you can just run your nolva and see it through.
 
Craigmatthew said:
I have i3c,p5p, inhibit-e, nolva, 6oxo... what are your thoughts man? Run the cycle with those in there? or stop the cycle and start the serm etc?
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Inhibit-E is ATD right?
I would not use 6-oxo.

I would take ATD at 50 mgs and nolva at 40 mgs at night, but thats me and assuming its estro induced. If it's prolactin induced you should actually NOT take nolva I think to complicate matters. Sure does sound like estro induced though..

EDIT: Gyno sucks man, you do NOT want that. Do all you can to stop it in its track right now. Up to you how much you want to sacrifice for avoiding it, like aborting your cycle. Getting bloodwork would rock to be sure whats going on. Could be dosing some nolva and atd while continueing will make it go away, but might not, might get worse. So get some good advice on this and make an informed decision. 5 lbs extra weight is NOT worth gyno man.
 
1HP said:
Inhibit-E is ATD right?
I would not use 6-oxo.

I would take ATD at 50 mgs and nolva at 40 mgs at night, but thats me and assuming its estro induced. If it's prolactin induced you should actually NOT take nolva I think to complicate matters. Sure does sound like estro induced though..
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yeah inhibit e is an ATD. You think continue the cycle while taking the ATD and Nolva or stop taking The One?
 
Craigmatthew said:
yeah inhibit e is an ATD. You think continue the cycle while taking the ATD and Nolva or stop taking The One?
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Up to you but to be honest I would probably stop :(

And I would dose the nolva even higher then 40 mgs till the pain goes away.

Dont know how important your libido is to you but if you get some letro you will probably kill it in its tracks for sure, this will totally annihilate your estro (and your libido and youll feel like crap ;) ). Maybe you could do letro and continue your cycle and maybe keep some libido and feel better? But get some expert advice ;)
 
1HP said:
Up to you but to be honest I would probably stop :(

And I would dose the nolva even higher then 40 mgs till the pain goes away.

Dont know how important your libido is to you but if you get some letro you will probably kill it in its tracks for sure, this will totally annihilate your estro (and your libido and youll feel like crap ;) ). Maybe you could do letro and continue your cycle and maybe keep some libido and feel better? But get some expert advice ;)
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Not sure I can get letro here where i am...
 
Craigmatthew said:
Not sure I can get letro here where i am...
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Then I would start atleast the nolva and consider adding the ATD and really think hard about abandoning your cycle or not..

I had reasonable containment results on 60 mg toremifene and 50 mgs ATD, that would be equivalent to 40 mgs nolva, ofcourse you could go higher on the nolva, I probably would the first few days.
 
1HP said:
Then I would start atleast the nolva and consider adding the ATD and really think hard about abandoning your cycle or not..

I had reasonable containment results on 60 mg toremifene and 50 mgs ATD, that would be equivalent to 40 mgs nolva, ofcourse you could go higher on the nolva, I probably would the first few days.
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60mgs nolva day 1-2
40mgs nolva day 2-7 (or 14)??
Then 20mgs for a few weeks?
 
Oh btw make sure you got enough nolva because you will need to keep taking it after you end your cycle of TO.
 
Craigmatthew said:
I'm going to stop TO... to risky to keep cycle going.
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I must say I've read logs of people taking nolva on cycle when signs appeared and being able to finish their cycles, but I would go the lowest risk route aswell. Sorry man..
 
particularly because of nolva's level of liver damage too, better to not run it that high along with anything methylated
 
I would not risk something just for a few more pounds, but that is just me. Just don't jump to conclusions and freak out. I have read though that there is no proven statement of dosing Nolva higher than 20 makes a difference result wise... I think that is what it was at least?

I would try to avoid over doing the SERM as much as possible and use ATD as well as suggested above.
 
Now, I am an idiot when it comes to the science aspect of all of this, but..
Does 'the one' cause any test to DHT conversion? Or is it simply DHT when it passes through the liver? I am asking this because I am also taking 'Cycle Assist,' as is Craigmatthew.. One of the ingredients in cycle assist is Saw Palmetto. Since Saw Palmetto helps stop the conversion of Test to DHT, wouldn't that mean that the 'extra' test would in turn convert to estrogen? And since there is no estro-blocker stacked with it, there would be nothing to decrease the increase of estrogen? Just my theory, again, I am sure I am wrong though since I don't fully understand how 'the one' actually works regarding it's DHT properties. I just don't know what else would induce the gyno, but it gives me paranoia regarding my own current cycle of 'The one.' Is there anything I could throw in the stack to reduce estrogen safely without causing side effects/losing the effectiveness of the one?
 
The ONE doesn't cause any test to DHT conversion, and it does have some AI properties itself as well. I don't think this is actually gyno, but I can understand craig wanting to be carefull, if you are going to be playing with a set of supple boobs you sure dont want them to be your own :D
 
1HP said:
Clomid for prolactin induced gyno, nolva for estro induced gyno, this does sound like estro induced gyno. Prolactin should cause leaky nips, estro lumps/puffy nips. Would be nice to be 100% sure on this. You can start the ATD at once. Nolva would be best if it's indeed estro induced. You should start asap though.

Funny thing though, The One is actually eradicating my gyno..
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Best post I've seen in sometime now, I've been meaning to research this myself. I have clomid, nolva, letro...I order 2 of everything from the store haha. Anyway thanks for this post and the help your giving our friend on cycle. Reps!
 
CrownRoyal said:
Now, I am an idiot when it comes to the science aspect of all of this, but..
Does 'the one' cause any test to DHT conversion? Or is it simply DHT when it passes through the liver? I am asking this because I am also taking 'Cycle Assist,' as is Craigmatthew.. One of the ingredients in cycle assist is Saw Palmetto. Since Saw Palmetto helps stop the conversion of Test to DHT, wouldn't that mean that the 'extra' test would in turn convert to estrogen? And since there is no estro-blocker stacked with it, there would be nothing to decrease the increase of estrogen? Just my theory, again, I am sure I am wrong though since I don't fully understand how 'the one' actually works regarding it's DHT properties. I just don't know what else would induce the gyno, but it gives me paranoia regarding my own current cycle of 'The one.' Is there anything I could throw in the stack to reduce estrogen safely without causing side effects/losing the effectiveness of the one?
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You might be onto something with the saw palmetto. It inhibits 5a-reductase which converts test to DHT. One side effect of inhibiting 5a-reductase is gyno because excess test = excess estrogen. I did see that one of the AN guys that had a blood test done had a test level of over 1000. I don't know if you can go DHT to testosterone but the only difference between them is a single hydrogen atom.
 
BTW check this out. I don't think Saw Palmetto is a good thing to take while on The One since it has some properties according to this that would decrease the effectiveness of DHT:
- Saw Palmetto inhibits testosterone action on the prostate, thus is used widely for BPH treatment
- Saw Palmetto also prevents binding of DHT to androgen receptors, hence helps with hair loss
- It inhibits androgen and estrogen receptor activity and helps both men and women to balance hormones
- Saw Palmetto herb helps treat bladder inflammation and helps with urinary flow
- Women also use Saw Palmetto herb to stimulate breast enlargement and also to treat uterine irritability.
- Saw Palmetto is also used to treat impotence, frigidity, and also used as an aphrodisiac
- Some new evidence shows that Saw Palmetto may also help with thyroid deficiencies
- Saw Palmetto is used to clear chest congestion, treat coughs, asthma, and bronchitis

Source:
Invalid Link Removed
 
EasyEJL said:
you can't go DHT to testosterone, that is a 1 way street :)
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Good to know thanks. Do you know if DHT gets flagged as testosterone in a blood test then? With the release of The One and the blood test posted the guy(can't remember who it was) had increased test levels over baseline.
 
This sucks, now I'm having weird sensations in my nipples.. but I just think it's because I have been touching them, hahaha.. I don't feel any hard lumps, they aren't sore or hurting at all, not too sensitive.. I think just for the hell out of, I'm gonna only take cycle assist once every other day, or every 2 days.. Don't want to **** anything up.

Also, Craig, what do your nipples exactly feel like? You should post a pic so we can get a better idea of what is actually going on.
 
EasyEJL said:
The ONE doesn't cause any test to DHT conversion, and it does have some AI properties itself as well. I don't think this is actually gyno, but I can understand craig wanting to be carefull, if you are going to be playing with a set of supple boobs you sure dont want them to be your own :D
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Are you guys ruling out, that The One can cause Gyno
 
The ONE can't directly cause gyno, because it doesn't aromatize to estrogen. Honestly though, anything that makes your hormone levels fluctuate has the potential to bring out gyno. Taking 6-oxo could cause gyno after you discontinue it. I've heard claims of gyno from drinking soy milk :) Its pretty unlikely. Itchy nipples happen with all sorts of hormone fluctuation (as well as change of laundry detergent, shower gel or suntan lotion), real sign of gyno would be nipples hurting so bad you have a hard time pulling a shirt on.
 
CrownRoyal said:
This sucks, now I'm having weird sensations in my nipples.. but I just think it's because I have been touching them, hahaha.. I don't feel any hard lumps, they aren't sore or hurting at all, not too sensitive.. I think just for the hell out of, I'm gonna only take cycle assist once every other day, or every 2 days.. Don't want to **** anything up.

Also, Craig, what do your nipples exactly feel like? You should post a pic so we can get a better idea of what is actually going on.
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Two small hard lumps on the right one, quite painful and really sensitive.
I am stopping the cycle and dosing nolva and ATD at night.
 
EasyEJL said:
The ONE can't directly cause gyno, because it doesn't aromatize to estrogen. Honestly though, anything that makes your hormone levels fluctuate has the potential to bring out gyno. Taking 6-oxo could cause gyno after you discontinue it. I've heard claims of gyno from drinking soy milk :) Its pretty unlikely. Itchy nipples happen with all sorts of hormone fluctuation (as well as change of laundry detergent, shower gel or suntan lotion), real sign of gyno would be nipples hurting so bad you have a hard time pulling a shirt on.
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Don't forget marijuana, especially when ingested. :D That's the first time in my life I ever experienced tingling nips.

WRT saw palmetto: I thought its actions were only at the prostate where it inhibited 5a-reductase. It affects androgen receptors throughout the whole body?
 
Aeternitatis said:
Don't forget marijuana, especially when ingested. :D That's the first time in my life I ever experienced tingling nips.

WRT saw palmetto: I thought its actions were only at the prostate where it inhibited 5a-reductase. It affects androgen receptors throughout the whole body?
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Thats crazy I smoke all the time and never have gotten that.
 
Craigmatthew said:
Yeah I'm trying to keep positive. Will be really easy to slip into the 'post cycle' depression here. Hopefully this nolva kills it in the next few days.
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Keep your head up bro:) its nothing that can not be treated..your doing the right thing , so dont even sweat it..
 
Damn Craig that is terrible. I hope the Nolva/ATD kicks the gyno to the curb. Good luck with the forced PCT and I will be keeping an eye on the progress.
 
I have never had a problem getting rid of my gyno flare ups while on cycle with ATD or Torem. i actully get more gyno flare ups after pct than any other time from estro rebound. After you get gyno under control are you goin to start cycle back up or are you just done with this one?
 
cloc said:
I have never had a problem getting rid of my gyno flare ups while on cycle with ATD or Torem. i actully get more gyno flare ups after pct than any other time from estro rebound. After you get gyno under control are you goin to start cycle back up or are you just done with this one?
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I'm not going to start cycle again. How did you dose the ATD or torem to fix the gyno? By gyno flare ups do you means lumps in the nipple?
 
Sorry if this is well known but... is this your first cycle? If not, I'm assuming you never had any problems with gyno before? This sucks and I hope the best for you.
 
An reps, my PCT consists of 2nd Gear/IGF-2/Drive .. this couldn't cause a gyno flare up could it? Just because I believe on Dirk's interview he stated that an overkill of PCT could actually cause negative sides, i.e. gyno..
 
Liquid13 said:
Sorry if this is well known but... is this your first cycle? If not, I'm assuming you never had any problems with gyno before? This sucks and I hope the best for you.
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Does it make a diff if its your first cycle?
This sux ass for you kiwi, Reckon your def doing the right thing by not trying to power through. Knock it straight on the head. This came out of no where man. GAY.:rant:
 
Yeah no real warning or anything! Just bang.. two lumps... pretty shattered about it. I'll just have to push on and hope for the best here.
 
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