what is "the one"???

[Cal]

They are illegal in all 50 states in the US as they are prescription drugs being used without a prescription.

You're wrong. Sorry to break your myth, but that just means it is illegal for a pharmacist to dispense it. Find me the statute saying that purchase/possession/use of a non-controlled substance is illegal. There's no such charge. But then, you probably don't know what "controlled substance" means, so that could be where your confusion comes from. Just look it up. Find your state's drug statutes and find the law that applies. I guarantee you won't find it unless you're in Colorado.

And there are plenty of documented side effects of the SERMs both among women using it for cancer and men using it as well. Complaints of vision problems, elevated liver values etc. No misinformation at all. I don't recall every seeing anyone complain of eye floaters taking 6-bromo or I3C. And no doctor has ever prescribed any of the SERMs for men in the ridiculous dosages that broscience had come up with in the "more is better" parade.

Vision problems are very uncommon, especially with tamoxifen and toremifene. Well worth the risk in order to use a product that is proven to upregulate HPTA function as opposed to an AI that has minimal evidence backing it. No doctor has to prescribe it. If you were a trustworthy person, you'd know where to find it anyway. Oh and you're totally lost on the dosages too. But nice attempted use of "broscience" (such a stupid term for so many reasons including the word's very structure). Too bad it doesn't apply here.

Dude, the product may be great. If so, let the TRUTH sell it. Not exaggerations and lies. Just try being honest. I know, probably not going to happen when talking to supplement lemmings.

 

[Jayhawkk]

You can purchase steroids too and it isn't illegal if you own a farm but if you use it for human consumption you're breaking the law. You can purchase research chems for the purpose of research but there are Federal laws on the books that can be used to charge you for possessing and consumption of research chemicals. Just because the chance of them ocming after you is low does not mean it's legal.

For as much as you like to dispel myths you're doing a pretty good job at keeping one alive. This isn't a states matter is a federal jurisdiction issue.

 

[EasyEJL]

You're wrong. Sorry to break your myth, but that just means it is illegal for a pharmacist to dispense it. Find me the statute saying that purchase/possession/use of a non-controlled substance is illegal. There's no such charge. But then, you probably don't know what "controlled substance" means, so that could be where your confusion comes from. Just look it up. Find your state's drug statutes and find the law that applies. I guarantee you won't find it unless you're in Colorado.

Its not state laws that define prescription product vs OTC, its federal law. And it is illegal in any of the 50 states to possess a prescription medication without a prescription.

Vision problems are very uncommon, especially with tamoxifen and toremifene. Well worth the risk in order to use a product that is proven to upregulate HPTA function as opposed to an AI that has minimal evidence backing it. No doctor has to prescribe it. If you were a trustworthy person, you'd know where to find it anyway. Oh and you're totally lost on the dosages too. But nice attempted use of "broscience" (such a stupid term for so many reasons including the word's very structure). Too bad it doesn't apply here.

Dude, the product may be great. If so, let the TRUTH sell it. Not exaggerations and lies. Just try being honest. I know, probably not going to happen when talking to supplement lemmings.

Again, more broscience from you, "a product that is proven to upregulate HPTA function", show the proof? Why do doctors who deal in hundreds if not thousands of steroid related cases like Dana Houser NOT recommend SERMs for PCT? because there is no evidence that in the time frame it is important to and that bodybuilders want to return HPTA function that SERMs have any effect. Sure theres evidence it will return function within 6 months, but theres evidence that function will return in that time frame with nothing.

But go ahead, feel free to encourage people to buy illegal to possess and consume, potentially unsafe (as they are uncontrolled) products not meant for human consumption (as they are clearly marked) that there is no significant evidence will provide the effect they want in the timeframe it needs to happen. Sounds great.

 

[muller]

No T levels because it's testing through my doctor I get on a regular basis that covers liver values and testing related to that. As well as urine. It has nothing to do with testing for The One.

So you have no problem dropping 70 bucks to get big, but when it comes to checking all your levels you say "whatever insurance will cover, bro!" ? Owell, at least AN's ONE bloodwork for the ONE (lololol irony!!) should tell you you're fine anyhow...

 

[Cal]

Its not state laws that define prescription product vs OTC, its federal law. And it is illegal in any of the 50 states to possess a prescription medication without a prescription.




Again, more broscience from you, "a product that is proven to upregulate HPTA function", show the proof? Why do doctors who deal in hundreds if not thousands of steroid related cases like Dana Houser NOT recommend SERMs for PCT? because there is no evidence that in the time frame it is important to and that bodybuilders want to return HPTA function that SERMs have any effect. Sure theres evidence it will return function within 6 months, but theres evidence that function will return in that time frame with nothing.

But go ahead, feel free to encourage people to buy illegal to possess and consume, potentially unsafe (as they are uncontrolled) products not meant for human consumption (as they are clearly marked) that there is no significant evidence will provide the effect they want in the timeframe it needs to happen. Sounds great.

LOL! You're just making yourself look stupid to those with a clue. I'm sure the supplement lemmings will believe you, and you are showing that you'll gladly sell your integrity for a dollar. Keep lying just to sell products. You fit right in with the rest of the dishonest companies. No reason to set yourself apart with honesty.

And not meant for human consumption? Are you that lost? Wow. Just pure ignorance of reality. You realize why that is, right? It is to make them legal to sell. Possession is already legal of a non-controlled substance.
And you still haven't posted the statute listing one SERM as illegal. You lost. Just admit you've NEVER looked into the laws, and are just repeating the crap you've heard from the supplement kiddies.

 

[EasyEJL]

LOL! You're just making yourself look stupid to those with a clue. I'm sure the supplement lemmings will believe you, and you are showing that you'll gladly sell your integrity for a dollar. Keep lying just to sell products. You fit right in with the rest of the dishonest companies. No reason to set yourself apart with honesty.

And not meant for human consumption? Are you that lost? Wow. Just pure ignorance of reality. You realize why that is, right? It is to make them legal to sell. Possession is already legal of a non-controlled substance.
And you still haven't posted the statute listing one SERM as illegal. You lost. Just admit you've NEVER looked into the laws, and are just repeating the crap you've heard from the supplement kiddies.

Its kind of comical how you have to stoop to personal attacks, since your arguments have no factual basis, you are just rehashing broscience and brolegal advice. These drugs are known as "legend drugs" and are illegal to possess, as they are drugs that require a prescription to buy legally. There is no need for a law prohibiting any of the SERMs specifically as they are all pharmaceutical products, and fall into that category because of this. You can feel free to believe what you want, but reality is otherwise.

Here's a few state laws and for definition sake ""Legend drug" means any drug defined by section 503(b) of the federal food, drug and cosmetic act and under which definition its label is required to bear the statement "RX only"."

New Jersey Prescription Drug Possession & Prescription Drug Distribution Law
N.J.S.A. 2C:35-10.5 generally outlaws the possession and/or distribution of "prescription legend drugs" other than by a licensed physician, dentist, veterinarian or pharmacist. "Prescription legend drugs" is a fancy name for prescription medicines or drugs and includes "any drug which under Federal or State law requires dispensing by prescription or order of a licensed physician, veterinarian or dentist".

Washington state

RCW 69.41.030
Sale, delivery, or possession of legend drug without prescription or order prohibited — Exceptions — Penalty.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, deliver, or possess any legend drug except upon the order or prescription of a physician under chapter 18.71 RCW, an osteopathic physician and surgeon under chapter 18.57 RCW, an optometrist licensed under chapter 18.53 RCW who is certified by the optometry board under RCW 18.53.010, a dentist under chapter 18.32 RCW, a podiatric physician and surgeon under chapter 18.22 RCW, a veterinarian under chapter 18.92 RCW, a commissioned medical or dental officer in the United States armed forces or public health service in the discharge of his or her official duties, a duly licensed physician or dentist employed by the veterans administration in the discharge of his or her official duties, a registered nurse or advanced registered nurse practitioner under chapter 18.79 RCW when authorized by the nursing care quality assurance commission, an osteopathic physician assistant under chapter 18.57A RCW when authorized by the board of osteopathic medicine and surgery, a physician assistant under chapter 18.71A RCW when authorized by the medical quality assurance commission, a physician licensed to practice medicine and surgery or a physician licensed to practice osteopathic medicine and surgery, a dentist licensed to practice dentistry, a podiatric physician and surgeon licensed to practice podiatric medicine and surgery, or a veterinarian licensed to practice veterinary medicine, in any province of Canada which shares a common border with the state of Washington or in any state of the United States:

and i could go on, as it is illegal in all 50 states. That is why the drugs are "Prescription only" and not sold at Nutraplanet.

And by "not meant for human consumption" also means they have no need to follow any of the sanitary or other guidelines required in even the supplement industry to comply with GMP. So again, i'll reiterate -feel free to encourage people to buy illegal to possess and consume, potentially unsafe (as they are uncontrolled) products not meant for human consumption (as they are clearly marked) that there is no significant evidence will provide the effect they want in the timeframe it needs to happen, that can have been mixed in a coffee can with urine or rat poison, if thats what you want to use for PCT. It doesn't harm me at all.

 

[muller]

Overlooking the point. Can Serms be used effectively? YES. Can they be potentially dangerous since they are labeled Not For Humans and have no safety guidelines? YES.
So theres the argument you two turned this into, you are both right.
But what this started out as, and still hasnt really been addressed is if you are telling us No Serm to protect your company and product, or is it really to protect us? I'm going with the first only after reading AN conducted just 1 bloodwork after 1 cycle before releasing this product, so really how much do they even know about their own stuff? Its up in the air, who knows!! I'm now in the boat, however, of AN rushed this out the door, especially when bloodwork demands kept appearing in the GET HYPE forum threads pre-release, and that perhaps the less bloodwork then they can claim they didnt know better if lawsuits were to happen. <---allll speculation, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, this is all just whats on my mind. One mans opinion.

 

[cynic]

LOL! You're just making yourself look stupid to those with a clue. I'm sure the supplement lemmings will believe you, and you are showing that you'll gladly sell your integrity for a dollar. Keep lying just to sell products. You fit right in with the rest of the dishonest companies. No reason to set yourself apart with honesty.

And not meant for human consumption? Are you that lost? Wow. Just pure ignorance of reality. You realize why that is, right? It is to make them legal to sell. Possession is already legal of a non-controlled substance.
And you still haven't posted the statute listing one SERM as illegal. You lost. Just admit you've NEVER looked into the laws, and are just repeating the crap you've heard from the supplement kiddies.

Holy hell man, are you serious? The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act defines, somewhat regulates, and prescribes the penalties in regards to prescription drugs and their movement in commerce (21 USCA 301-). Possession of a prescription drug without a prescription is illegal. Are you going to get arrested for it? Maybe not, but that doesn't make it any less illegal. Even...EVEN if you in a state that inexplicably doesn't have a state model of the FFDCA, the state law would be preempted by federal law - the same reason that all those CA medical marijuana growers are getting locked up in federal prisons even though it is "legal" under CA law. Also, while they are technically not "controlled substance" as defined by the Controlled Substances Act, they should be referred to as "Non-Scheduled". Simply by being prescribed they become federally regulated, controlled substances.

Where do you get off attacking people who clearly know what they are talking about...just because they can't "show you the statute"? Don't spout off about things you have no legal knowledge about.

 

[Jayhawkk]

So you have no problem dropping 70 bucks to get big, but when it comes to checking all your levels you say "whatever insurance will cover, bro!" ? Owell, at least AN's ONE bloodwork for the ONE (lololol irony!!) should tell you you're fine anyhow...

When it comes to being 'okay' i'm worried about things like cholesterol, ast,alt etc. Low test levels are not lowing my lifespan or causing me to keel over with heart failure, kidney failure, liver failure. I'm going to assume you're all natural without any additional supplementation since i haven't seen your list of past and present bloodwork to make sure you're okay. I have blood and urine work done twice a year. How often do you have yours done?

Invalid Link Removed


Also title 21 Section 321

Specifically

(g)(1) The term "drug" means (A) articles recognized in the
official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homoeopathic
Pharmacopoeia of the United States, or official National Formulary,
or any supplement to any of them; and (B) articles intended for use
in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of
disease in man or other animals; and (C) articles (other than food)
intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man
or other animals; and (D) articles intended for use as a component
of any article specified in clause (A), (B), or (C). A food or
dietary supplement for which a claim, subject to sections
343(r)(1)(B) and 343(r)(3) of this title or sections 343(r)(1)(B)
and 343(r)(5)(D) of this title, is made in accordance with the
requirements of section 343(r) of this title is not a drug solely
because the label or the labeling contains such a claim. A food,
dietary ingredient, or dietary supplement for which a truthful and
not misleading statement is made in accordance with section
343(r)(6) of this title is not a drug under clause (C) solely
because the label or the labeling contains such a statement.

 

[EasyEJL]

Overlooking the point. Can Serms be used effectively? YES. Can they be potentially dangerous since they are labeled Not For Humans and have no safety guidelines? YES.
So theres the argument you two turned this into, you are both right.
But what this started out as, and still hasnt really been addressed is if you are telling us No Serm to protect your company and product, or is it really to protect us? I'm going with the first only after reading AN conducted just 1 bloodwork after 1 cycle before releasing this product, so really how much do they even know about their own stuff? Its up in the air, who knows!! I'm now in the boat, however, of AN rushed this out the door, especially when bloodwork demands kept appearing in the GET HYPE forum threads pre-release, and that perhaps the less bloodwork then they can claim they didnt know better if lawsuits were to happen. <---allll speculation, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, this is all just whats on my mind. One mans opinion.

I definitely have no problems with someone choosing to use a SERM, but i spent a lot of time reading and have not yet used a SERM with a cycle, nor do I plan to. I look at the history of 60 years of Olympia and other bodybuilding competitions where there was testosterone and dbol and other steroids, but no SERMs.

After our initial in-house test group (of people who have been involved in this sport a LONG time, and have been on stage before) we had a pretty good idea of where things were at - these are guys who are in tune with their bodies as that is their specialty. We set up with a sports clinic to have a handful of the athletes they were training to run The ONE, with weekly blood tests during their sports training, and run the full cycle plus PCT plus get results a month after PCT. In the timespan between that starting and The ONE coming out, it seems that sports clinic has gone out of business, the phone line is disconnected, and mail hasn't been answered.

and just to add on this piece

perhaps the less bloodwork then they can claim they didnt know better if lawsuits were to happen.

Isn't true, as liability lawsuits don't require purposeful negligence. However in the case of research chemical SERMs it IS true, if you buy what you thought was nolva and it turns out to be cyanide and you die, the research chemical company can't be sued, as the disclaimers on both their sites and bottles state clearly that it is not for human consumption....

 

[Jayhawkk]

I disagree with the point about not being sued. If proof could be made that their labels were intended to make sales knowing they were intended for human consumption then a good suit could be made. Not to mention accidental ingestion of Tamox and cynanide are two different safety issues as well. I'm not a lawyer but i'm pretty suit a suit could easily be made if they dropped dead from poisoning.

 

[EasyEJL]

I disagree with the point about not being sued. If proof could be made that their labels were intended to make sales knowing they were intended for human consumption then a good suit could be made. Not to mention accidental ingestion of Tamox and cynanide are two different safety issues as well. I'm not a lawyer but i'm pretty suit a suit could easily be made if they dropped dead from poisoning.

Possibly, part of it as well is the disclaimer you have to agree to so as to visit the site and make a purchase. Not like anyone actually reads them, but you give up your rights based on it.

DISCLAIMER

The products we offer are intended for laboratory/ hobbyist research use only. In purchasing any of these items, the customer acknowledges that there are risks involved with consumption or distribution of these products. These chemicals are NOT intended to use as food additives, drugs, cosmetics, household chemicals or other inappropriate applications. The listing of a material on this site does not constitute a license to its use in infringement of any patent. All of the products will be handled only by qualified and properly trained professionals.

All customers represent and warrant that through their own review and study that they are fully aware and knowledgeable about the following:
Government regulations regarding the use of and exposure to all products.
The health and safety hazards associated with the handling of the products they purchase.

The necessity of adequately warning of the health and safety hazards associated with any products.

...... reserves the right to limit and/or deny sales of products to any unqualified individuals. All customers MUST be at least 18 years of age to purchase our products. IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHALL ...... BE LIABLE FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER PURCHASER'S CLAIM IN CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE. IN DIRECT CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE SALE OF ANY PRODUCT TO THE PURCHASER, THE PURCHASER AGREES TO INDEMNIFY AND HOLD US HARMLESS FROM ALL CLAIMS, EXPENSES, LOSSES AND LIABILITY OF ANY TYPE ARISING OUT OF THE PURCHASER'S HANDLING, POSSESSION, AND/OR USE OF THE PRODUCT, WHETHER USED ALONE OR IN COMBINATION WITH ANY SUBSTANCE. ANY SALE WOULD BE DENIED OTHERWISE.

PRODUCT USE
...... products are intended for laboratory/hobbyist research purposes ONLY and unless otherwise stated are not to be used for any other purposes, including but not limited to food and/or drugs, medical devices, vitro diagnostic purpose, or cosmetics for humans or animals or for commercial purposes. The purchaser agrees that the products have not been sterilized or tested by ...... for safety and efficacy in food, drug, medical device, cosmetic, commercial or any other use. The purchaser expressly represents and warrants to ...... that the purchaser will properly test, use, manufacture and market any products purchased from ...... and/or materials produced with products purchased from ...... in accordance with the practices of a reliable person who is experienced in the field and in strict compliance with all applicable laws and regulations, now and hereinafter enacted. The purchaser further warrants that any material produced with any product shall not be adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and shall not be materials which may not, under Sections 404, 505, or 512 of the Act, be introduced into interstate commerce.

The purchaser realizes that, since ...... products are, unless otherwise stated, intended solely for research purposes, they may not be on the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) inventory listing. The purchaser assumes responsibility to assure that the products purchased from ...... are approved for use under TSCA, if applicable.
Purchaser has the responsibility to verify the hazards and to conduct any further research necessary to learn the hazards involved in using products purchased from ....... Purchaser agrees to comply with instructions, if any, furnished by ...... relating to the use of the products and not misuse the products in any manner. No products purchased from ...... shall, unless otherwise stated, be considered to be foods, drugs, medical devices or cosmetics.

ALL products and services offered are for RESEARCH purposes ONLY and are NOT TO BE INGESTED.

Under NO circumstances shall/ should ANY of these materials be used for recreational purposes nor human consumption.

...... is NOT liable for ANY damages that may be caused by negligence, abuse, or ANY other unforeseen matter.

the only times i've seen that a lawsuit against someone like this worked was like with Universal Kits. However the piece that allowed them to be hit was that they had federal agents send in questions to customer service asking about human use "I'm 225lbs how much of this would I inject a day" or "I heard that the sesame oil is less painful for me if I inject it in my leg" etc and the customer service reps answered, proving that the intent was for human use. Without something like that, this is no different than ordering off of ScienceLab or any of the other lab supply sites. They have no liability for it being incorrect product in bottle, beyond the price paid for the sample.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Just basing my broknowledge based off of places like skating rinks having signs saying not repsonsible for broken bones. they can still be sued but the amount is usually lowered due to them being aware. it lowered liability but didn't erase it...

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, i'm not entirely sure, but I don't see how you could win a "wrongful death" suit against them if you knew and agreed that you weren't supposed to ingest it

 

[Jayhawkk]

Hell if i know but i don't understand most law suits. I'm still amazed at the McDonald's coffee incident lol

 

[muller]

Thanks for all the answers, like I said it was all just self speculation. Nothing wrong with challenging a company to backup their claims every now and again, and no I'm not entirely satisfied but I do see its reached an impasse. Way the story seems to read is use a serm or don't, but AN doesn't recommend it based on X amount of athletes' suggestion. So really, smart move would be to just use whatever PCT worked for you in the past, and if this is your first run, maybe give the 2nd Gear a spin, but have some serm on backup if you're worried.

and Jay, thats cool and I don't need to post all my cycles and blood work on a forum, and even if I DID think sharing my blood levels with complete strangers would be a cool way to spend a morning, I wouldn't have much up here seeing as I'm pretty new to the forum. Cheers!

 

[Jayhawkk]

I only borught your bloodwork into the conversation because the way you phrased your statement made it seem you were questioning why I got mine and that I didn't care about my health because of i didn't request T levels.

 

[muller]

its all good.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Is This product the one any good at cutting ??? or is it mainly a bulker ??????

The ONE can be used to cut, recomp OR bulk.

AConradoo (Invalid Link Removed) is using The ONE specifically for cutting.

Eric (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/118347-becoming-one-one.html) is using The ONE specifically for recomping. The majority of the loggers are aiming for gains in muscle mass (and strength).

However loggers across the board are consistently leaning out, regardless of their goal.

 

[Rodja]

what do you think about this product Rodja? have you had significant strength gains or do you see this as more of a mass PH? Cheers, angel77

I would not say significant, but I am also not through week 2, yet. My muscles are much fuller, libido is crazy, and appetite is also up. I am trying not to eat as much as I want because I am trying to do a slight recomp with this cycle.

 

[Gym4Life]

The ONE can be used to cut, recomp OR bulk.

AConradoo (Invalid Link Removed) is using The ONE specifically for cutting.

Eric (http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/118347-becoming-one-one.html) is using The ONE specifically for recomping. The majority of the loggers are aiming for gains in muscle mass (and strength).

However loggers across the board are consistently leaning out, regardless of their goal.

ok cool thanks mate i will look at them threads closey thanks for the info

 

[Cal]

Where do you get off attacking people who clearly know what they are talking about...just because they can't "show you the statute"? Don't spout off about things you have no legal knowledge about.

Because I disagree. I used to own a research liquids company and had multiple attorneys look into the legalities, and they all said this didn't apply in any practice because there is no charge for them. I'm not popping off brotelligence. I've done more research into it than anybody on here, most likely. But stick with the myths and lack of understanding. I just did it to watch the supplement lemmings freak out that their lies were being disputed.

 

[EasyEJL]

Because I disagree. I used to own a research liquids company and had multiple attorneys look into the legalities, and they all said this didn't apply in any practice because there is no charge for them. I'm not popping off brotelligence. I've done more research into it than anybody on here, most likely. But stick with the myths and lack of understanding. I just did it to watch the supplement lemmings freak out that their lies were being disputed.

Only lies so far have been yours. I pointed out 2 states with specific laws against legend drugs, and the other 48 have them too. Maybe next time you should get better lawyers, or better lies.

 

[marco wolf]

It's semantics, at this point. They are legal to possess, but they are not legal for personal use. You'd probably win the lottery before you were convicted for their use, though. Let alone arrested.

Sodomy is still illegal in some states, but how many people actually get arrested for it? Discretion is the key.

 

[EasyEJL]

It's semantics, at this point. They are legal to possess, but they are not legal for personal use. You'd probably win the lottery before you were convicted for their use, though. Let alone arrested.

Sodomy is still illegal in some states, but how many people actually get arrested for it? Discretion is the key.

no, no semantics, they are illegal to possess. They are prescription medications that you don't have a prescription for. You aren't a research lab, likely the address where the material stays is non-commercial address - ie a home.

I'll agree on the "odds of arrest" but odds of a conviction are good if you were ever arrested. The partial problem is the FDA raiding research chem sellers, and getting your name, address, etc from their records.

 

[marco wolf]

they are illegal to possess

OK. But again, if something is not enforced, does it really matter?

BTW, I do agree with you that it's illegal, either way.

 

[EasyEJL]

The problem is not that it is generally unenforced, but it could be enforced at any time. if for any other reason police were to search your house and find clomid, you are guilty of a crime at that point. If there was a fire in the house, and firemen search the house afterwards for example.

Moreso my point still (which Cal, who has now admitted to at least in the past having a vested interest in SERM sales) is that SERMs are unnecessary, so the risk : reward isnt there. How many Olympians, powerlifters or any other strength/bodybuilding related competitors used SERMs before the 2000s? NONE because they didnt exist. And they ran longer, stronger, heavier cycles than 3 weeks of superdrol or 4 weeks of epistane. Dr Dana Houser (dinoiii) can write prescriptions for SERMs as part of his practice, but doesn't recommend them for PCT. So when there is relatively little to no reward, why take either the legal risk, or the contamination/misdosing risks?

 

[Jayhawkk]

Cal you have ignored both cited state and federal law showing research chems being illegal in anything but a true research setting. Was your lawyer an actual lawyer or did he stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

 

[marco wolf]

The problem is not that it is generally unenforced, but it could be enforced at any time. if for any other reason police were to search your house and find clomid, you are guilty of a crime at that point. If there was a fire in the house, and firemen search the house afterwards for example.

Moreso my point still (which Cal, who has now admitted to at least in the past having a vested interest in SERM sales) is that SERMs are unnecessary, so the risk : reward isnt there. How many Olympians, powerlifters or any other strength/bodybuilding related competitors used SERMs before the 2000s? NONE because they didnt exist. And they ran longer, stronger, heavier cycles than 3 weeks of superdrol or 4 weeks of epistane. Dr Dana Houser (dinoiii) can write prescriptions for SERMs as part of his practice, but doesn't recommend them for PCT. So when there is relatively little to no reward, why take either the legal risk, or the contamination/misdosing risks?

In fact, a question is. Did Superdrol cause "delayed gyno" or were the cases caused by SERM's?

I was more or less addressing what Cal had wrote and agree with your position, other than the enforcement of it. If you're discrete, I doubt anything will ever happen to you. That doesn't mean I agree with their use.

 

[EasyEJL]

I would actually bet money that the gyno was caused by nolvadex. Interesting study just completed the last few months showed that roughly 25% of women where nolvadex was used to treat them for breast cancer got little to no SERM activity from it. they managed to isolate the gene responsible and so can now do a simple test on a woman with breast cancer to see if they should waste their time with nolva or just use something else.

if the same holds true for men, then roughly 25% of the guys who counted on nolva as their entire PCT basically got 0 value from it either as some way to boost testosterone, or control estrogen binding. so a fair number of them noticing gyno down the road isn't surprising. Most of the studies looking at androgen use without a PCT show return to baseline somewhere in the 4-6 month range, which seems to also be when the "superdrol delayed gyno" shows up.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Nolva works...

 

[Cal]

Yes it does. But some supplement kiddies think one study or even ten would be suficient to change all we see work. An example of why such thinking is wrong is the number of hospitals that are no longer using a pulse ox for routine assessment between scheduled vitals checks. They have found it to be much safer for the patient if the health care practitioner views the patient rather than relying upon readings that don't tell the entire story.

As for my attorneys and legality...
Get out of your little supplement newbie world. I even at one point had my house ransacked by state police who called in to see if they could do anything about ancillary raws. They couldn't. (they never bothered to see that the gh they took wasn't scheduled or in any way illegal of course)

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I would actually bet money that the gyno was caused by nolvadex. Interesting study just completed the last few months showed that roughly 25% of women where nolvadex was used to treat them for breast cancer got little to no SERM activity from it. they managed to isolate the gene responsible and so can now do a simple test on a woman with breast cancer to see if they should waste their time with nolva or just use something else.

if the same holds true for men, then roughly 25% of the guys who counted on nolva as their entire PCT basically got 0 value from it either as some way to boost testosterone, or control estrogen binding. so a fair number of them noticing gyno down the road isn't surprising. Most of the studies looking at androgen use without a PCT show return to baseline somewhere in the 4-6 month range, which seems to also be when the "superdrol delayed gyno" shows up.

The last bit re: HPGA-specific genomic [...or lack thereof...] activity is more than a reach, Easy. I understand your interests in the issue are vested, however; let us not muddy 'empiricism' with 'wild speculation', and pass both off as kosher, please.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Get out of your little supplement newbie world.

lol, you don't have to be in a supplement newbie world to read plain print.

 

[Zero V]

man. I liked page one of the thread, but then it basically went into the old, never ending battle of "to serm, or not to serm". Bleh.

 

[jbradley1981]

thanks for the feedback, but this post is getting out of control now with all the fighting about SERMS and sh*t, I think everyone has there own opinions. I am L-dex guy myself, i also think that Diesel Test Hardcore is a hell of a test booster.

My next question is what kind of gains are we talking with "the one"??? superdrol type? havoc type? testosterone type? winstrol type?

 

[EasyEJL]

The last bit re: HPGA-specific genomic [...or lack thereof...] activity is more than a reach, Easy. I understand your interests in the issue are vested, however; let us not muddy 'empiricism' with 'wild speculation', and pass both off as kosher, please.

Its not a vested interest question on that particular one, just a possible explanation of "delayed superdrol gyno". I can point to the studies in females if you'd like, I posted the study in I think the articles section when it first came out as all the claims of delayed superdrol gyno intrigued me as there wasn't any really sensible mechanism for it. If the genetics related issue with novla holds for men as it does for women, that makes a lot more sense as to the delayed gyno.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yes it does. But some supplement kiddies think one study or even ten would be suficient to change all we see work. An example of why such thinking is wrong is the number of hospitals that are no longer using a pulse ox for routine assessment between scheduled vitals checks. They have found it to be much safer for the patient if the health care practitioner views the patient rather than relying upon readings that don't tell the entire story.

As for my attorneys and legality...
Get out of your little supplement newbie world. I even at one point had my house ransacked by state police who called in to see if they could do anything about ancillary raws. They couldn't. (they never bothered to see that the gh they took wasn't scheduled or in any way illegal of course)

So gee, first you go from "show me one law in any state but colorado" to now what? Just trying to sling insults? funny, it doesn't change the factual nature that those drugs are illegal to possess. Maybe your local state police went to the same school your lawyers did.

 

[EasyEJL]

thanks for the feedback, but this post is getting out of control now with all the fighting about SERMS and sh*t, I think everyone has there own opinions. I am L-dex guy myself, i also think that Diesel Test Hardcore is a hell of a test booster.

My next question is what kind of gains are we talking with "the one"??? superdrol type? havoc type? testosterone type? winstrol type?

Closest probably to superdrol type, but with less sides during it.

 

[SWOLL]

Closest probably to superdrol type, but with less sides during it.

how many pounds with proper training, diet etc. can i expect from a 4 week cycle?

 

[Jayhawkk]

I wouldn't put gains comparable to Superdrol, in my experience, just yet. Things may definitely change but in a direct comparison it falls short due for the fact it doesn't kick in quite as fast. However, if it does pick up throughout the cycle I would take it over Superdrol simply for the lack of sides The One has.

 

[EasyEJL]

how many pounds with proper training, diet etc. can i expect from a 4 week cycle?

Its so variable, but i'd say from 15-20 is reasonable, possibly more.

 

[SeanyK]

easy ... what is it exactly... chemically... derivative of m5aa, methyl-3ad, trying to put my finger on it...

 

[EasyEJL]

easy ... what is it exactly... chemically... derivative of m5aa, methyl-3ad, trying to put my finger on it...

it is

17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol-3-hydroxyimine

The closest relative would be DHT or MDHT, but it is different than either.

 

[jbradley1981]

this stuff sounds nuts, i have original halodrol-50, a couple bottles of havoc, i was gonna throw one of those in to kick-start my prop/eq cycle in a few weeks, but now i am thinking about "the one" its sounds too good to be true. How would it be as a kick-starter??? i have used havoc to kick start a sustanon cycle and it was a good cycle, just wondering how this would work?

 

[EasyEJL]

It should work nice, it seems to come on really fast for both mass + strength gains. Theres a few people who i've talked to considering using it the same way. It lower SHBG too, so it will also somewhat raise the effectiveness of the test too

 

[jbradley1981]

i just think this stuff sounds awesome and if some people are comparing it to superdrol thats nuts. I did 3 weeks of superdrol about 3 years ago and enjoyed it until crazy back pumps and headaches. I gained 9 pnds, it was freakish, if this stuff can do somewhat that and not come with the sides, wow!!!!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Its not a vested interest question on that particular one, just a possible explanation of "delayed superdrol gyno". I can point to the studies in females if you'd like, I posted the study in I think the articles section when it first came out as all the claims of delayed superdrol gyno intrigued me as there wasn't any really sensible mechanism for it. If the genetics related issue with novla holds for men as it does for women, that makes a lot more sense as to the delayed gyno.

I am familiar with the study you are speaking about, E! I was speaking about the genetics not being particularly related, especially when we are considering hypothalamic E2 receptors v., breast-tissue.

 

[EasyEJL]

Ah yeah, I see. Yeah, no relationship as to whether it affects HTPA axis or not, just whether it protects against gyno

I still wonder if that was the cause of most of the superdrol delayed gyno, but no way to know for sure

 

[jbradley1981]

would u compare the sides of "the one" to havoc, or even less then that?