Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

[poison]

The clumps are hard, I can't rub them in. I cut one between my fingernails, and they're tough. It's not like an ingredient clumped, IMO.

 

[Flyboy]

for the record, i don't have any of these issues...

 

[Mr.50]

for the record, i don't have any of these issues...

Me neither

MV

 

[CTDeuce]

for the record, i don't have any of these issues...

That makes 3 of us.

My only issue is the damn shampoo is out of stock already!

 

[Flyboy]

Just been down the gym and my friend who i also bought a bottle for, and is on much the same regime as me, just commented that my hair was looking a bit darker and fuller than when he last saw me (which was a couple days after starting virile mane)... I happen to agree.

and I'm only about 2 weeks in... madness. It's nothing huge at this point, but a subtle improvement imho and for that to happen in 2 weeks is incredible! I wonder if it is through some sort of cosmetic effect at this point that just gives the illusion of thicker hair as it shouldn't be possible... or maybe it's due to the l-dopa laying a bit more pigment and giving a thicker look.

Anyway, I'm not going to draw any conclusions until I've been using it for at least 3 months, but I find this a promising start...

Also by the by got a PR with 61.25kg (135lbs) for 5 on my weighted dips, riding the wave of someone saying something nice about my hair? lol... "Virile mane, adding lbs to your PR's and hairs to your head". If only.... :lol:

 

[dsade]

I know it's still early, but is anyone else also noticing an increased growth rate in live hairs (mature hairs)?

I just got my haircut last week, and yet in the area I have been applying they seem to be growing at an accelerated rate.

Unrelated (though asked somewhere else in this thread): I have made a few finds that should allow us to design something to inhibit hair growth. While it won't have a direct depilatory action (you will still have to wax or shave the initial time), but will keep you smoother, longer.

 

[Mr.50]

I know it's still early, but is anyone else also noticing an increased growth rate in live hairs (mature hairs)?

I just got my haircut last week, and yet in the area I have been applying they seem to be growing at an accelerated rate.

Unrelated (though asked somewhere else in this thread): I have made a few finds that should allow us to design something to inhibit hair growth. While it won't have a direct depilatory action (you will still have to wax or shave the initial time), but will keep you smoother, longer.

Well I can't really comment yet DSADE since it will only be two weeks on VM for me on this coming tuesday and only one week (or less?) with the JL. I will report in though after a little more time. Remember for me I really just have the receeding hairline and overall thin hair strands so it may progress differnetly for those of use with different types of thinning/baldness.

Mr.50

 

[small_guy]

The clumps are hard, I can't rub them in. I cut one between my fingernails, and they're tough. It's not like an ingredient clumped, IMO.

I agree, my flakes are like that and there are tons of them. They are truly tough!!!

I ordered three bottles so I could check if there is any issue with the other two.

 

[CTDeuce]

I don't know about overall growth yet, but the hair I do have is definitely growing at an accelerated rate. When I apply at night, I tend to add more dots around my head and just rub it in all over my scalp. This has made all of my hair grow in much faster. I'm just about due for a haircut already.

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

I know it's still early, but is anyone else also noticing an increased growth rate in live hairs (mature hairs)?

I just got my haircut last week, and yet in the area I have been applying they seem to be growing at an accelerated rate.

Unrelated (though asked somewhere else in this thread): I have made a few finds that should allow us to design something to inhibit hair growth. While it won't have a direct depilatory action (you will still have to wax or shave the initial time), but will keep you smoother, longer.

Cool!
Im tired of shaving.

 

[chore boy]

I was thinkng the small "clumps" were probably the polyphenols... from my experience, they aren't the most soluble of agents. Who knows... I could be wrong.

Dsade, if you really wanted to be a pimp, you'd release an A.M.-suitable tonic containing Raspberry Ketones, carnitine-tat, Riboos, taurine and maybe some other stuff. Maybe it's just me but the VM is definitely better-suited for P.M. use. A nice, clear tonic-type solution would be kickass for the mornings... just spritz and go. No greasiness kinda-thing.

In any event, you've incorporated some impressive/promising ingredients into VM that have some exciting research behind them, especially the RK.

 

[dsade]

.

Dsade, if you really wanted to be a pimp, you'd release an A.M.-suitable tonic containing Raspberry Ketones, carnitine-tat, Riboos, taurine and maybe some other stuff. Maybe it's just me but the VM is definitely better-suited for P.M. use. A nice, clear tonic-type solution would be kickass for the mornings... just spritz and go. No greasiness kinda-thing.

Interesting idea. It would be a bit harder, as we have tried to minimize the alcohol content (to avoid scalp dryness/irritation) without sacrificing penetration through the stratum corneum.

Let me play around with some different carrier designs and see what I can come up with.

 

[chore boy]

That way, folks that don't want to use the VM in the mornings can still get their twice-daily application of the ingredients. I know that the shampoo contains most/all of them... just sayin'.

Also, I really feel that addressing the signalling cascade (and the mutations that accompany it) involved in MPB holds more promise than minoxidil ever will. TGF-b has always been one I've been gunning for and is probably at least partly responsible for the reason we rarely see terminal regrowth in MPB.

 

[chore boy]

If you'd be interested, I'd be more than happy to share some of the research I've done on the subject.

 

[dsade]

That way, folks that don't want to use the VM in the mornings can still get their twice-daily application of the ingredients. I know that the shampoo contains most/all of them... just sayin'.

Also, I really feel that addressing the signalling cascade (and the mutations that accompany it) involved in MPB holds more promise than minoxidil ever will. TGF-b has always been one I've been gunning for and is probably at least partly responsible for the reason we rarely see terminal regrowth in MPB.

Agreed. Minoxidil was a great first generation option - but not a magic bullet.

Immune modulation and tissue specific suppression is difficult - especially within the limitations of natural compounds.

 

[someonehs]

Or you should make a putty/gel type hair product, i use a putty most days, if it had some thickening agents etc, that would be sweet. I'm not balding, just have very fine hair, so it would be a nice thing to have.

 

[mcmayne]

so are there any other products that you're supposed to use in conjunction with virile mane? it sounds great but I was j/w if it's plenty effective on it's own. I'm only 20 and hair is noticeably thinning on top middle of my head. thanks a lot

 

[dsade]

so are there any other products that you're supposed to use in conjunction with virile mane? it sounds great but I was j/w if it's plenty effective on it's own. I'm only 20 and hair is noticeably thinning on top middle of my head. thanks a lot

You don't have to, but we recommend Java Lustre shampoo for the actives and to prime the scalp as well as NOXIDANT for its systemic antioxidant capabilities.

 

[1HP]

Allright, been using VM for 10 days now.

You wont believe this but I've got around a dozen tiny hairs coming through in front of my (receeding) hairline. I'm 100% sure they werent there before. I'm on Toco-8 for about a month and also using Astaxanthin and Saw Palmetto. Also I'm on Diesel Test products which makes my hair grow a lot faster, might explain why I get some results so quick.

On the downside, went to the hairdresser yesterday and she pointed out my scalp is all red and irritated, she showed me into a mirror and indeed it's all red on top, from my hairline (where I apply the VM) to my crown. Any ideas? I didnt put it on last night to give my scalp some rest, it's actually burning a bit today.. Some type of allergic reaction? I think maybe going 7 days on 2 days off or so..

 

[dsade]

Congrats on the new growth.

For the irritation, are you rubbing it in extra vigorously? Once, or twice a day?

I find the carrier to be extremely gentle, thought the combo of the Peppermint and RKs increases circulation which causes a reddening effect and slight sensitivity to pain (temporary).

 

[1HP]

Thanks, I'm pretty psyched about it, seems to really work. I dont really rub it in, just apply it. The funny thing is I just apply it to my hairline in the front, but it's red all the way to the crown. On the sides of my head the skincolour is normal. My hairline looks something like yours dsade.

 

[dsade]

Thanks, I'm pretty psyched about it, seems to really work. I dont really rub it in, just apply it. The funny thing is I just apply it to my hairline in the front, but it's red all the way to the crown. On the sides of my head the skincolour is normal. My hairline looks something like yours dsade.

Could just be an initial reaction (I got this with the original Avant topical) that needs a day or two off.

I am actually getting ready to post update pics this weekend. I am getting obvious new growth on the thin frontal spots as well.

 

[1HP]

Yes there's no doubt. They're about 3 millimeters long and they werent there before. I've tried taking pictures but they just dont show on my 3MP camera..

I'll take 2 days off and then start applying again, psyched really :stick:

 

[dsade]

Yes there's no doubt. They're about 3 millimeters long and they werent there before. I've tried taking pictures but they just dont show on my 3MP camera..

I'll take 2 days off and then start applying again, psyched really :stick:

I'm having the same problem with our camera, but there is a time in the afternoon (if it's not cloudy) when I can stand in the front window and have christine snap pictures that should come out.

Oddly enough, when the formula was still "someday" I wasn't as self-conscious as I am now - though it is tempered with extreme optimism that is being confirmed by the new growth.

 

[1HP]

You're gonna be sooo popular when this is going to work for a majority of people. Get invited to every party, be surrounded with hot women, you name it :toofunny:

 

[dsade]

You're gonna be sooo popular when this is going to work for a majority of people. Get invited to every party, be surrounded with hot women, you name it :toofunny:

Are you insinuating that I am not already?

 

[1HP]

Are you insinuating that I am not already?

Good point, BUT the extra hair will add to your hotness which will attract more women fo sho! And then there's Renegade :whip:

 

[dsade]

Good point, BUT the extra hair will add to your hotness which will attract more women fo sho! And then there's Renegade :whip:

That's EXACTLY what I keep telling her, then she tells me my hair sweater is gross.

"But honey, It's organic and all-natural"

 

[1HP]

That's EXACTLY what I keep telling her, then she tells me my hair sweater is gross.

"But honey, It's organic and all-natural"

She doesn't appreciate a real man. I blame the damn ghey waxed hairfree coming out of the shower girly men type commercials. You know the type you now even want too look like. Something is terribly wrong and twisted these days.

 

[dsade]

She doesn't appreciate a real man. I blame the damn ghey waxed hairfree coming out of the shower girly men type commercials. You know the type you now even want too look like. Something is terribly wrong and twisted these days.

I blame the guidos.

 

[1HP]

A real man has hair on his back, not his head :aargh:

Anyhow, the VM works lolz now please invent something to remove the hair on my back :rofl:

 

[dsade]

A real man has hair on his back, not his head :aargh:

Anyhow, the VM works lolz now please invent something to remove the hair on my back :rofl:

already working on it. =)

 

[AFOX]

I have a question dsade. Is it normal to have increased shedding when first using VM? I have more hair comming off in my hands in the shower than normal, and I have been using the VM and shampoo for a week. I'm really counting on this stuff to work, and I know it will take time. I do love how soft my hair is from the shampoo, it is usually dry and course.

 

[Shay4]

Dear dsade.
The Shampoo is great and I really enjoy using it, the only problem is that its a bit watery. will You improve it ?
Also: Did Nutraplant receive the sealed Virile mane and the sealed shampoo ?
Thank You

 

[dsade]

I have a question dsade. Is it normal to have increased shedding when first using VM? I have more hair comming off in my hands in the shower than normal, and I have been using the VM and shampoo for a week.

When hairs are in Telogen phase, and you force a shift back into Anagen phase, the newly formed hairs will force shedding of the inactive hairs.

This is to be expected, and is actually a GREAT sign that it is working.

 

[dsade]

Dear dsade.
The Shampoo is great and I really enjoy using it, the only problem is that its a bit watery. will You improve it ?
Also: Did Nutraplant receive the sealed Virile mane and the sealed shampoo ?
Thank You

The weather is doing weird things to consistency. I have thickened it up significantly, and the new shipment of shampoos/VM are all sealed.

Working with the shampoo is odd...I form a very thick product, but as soon as the NAC is added, it seems to dissociate the thickeners, causing the formula to thin back out again. It takes a constant adjustment, and I don't want it to be TOO thick or it will be a complete pain to use. Your patience is appreciated, big time.

 

[CTDeuce]

I cannot get over how fast my other hair is growing with VM. I personally feel like i'm gaining new growth...but I won't really know til I take pics at the end of bottle #1. It feels fuller though.

 

[dsade]

I cannot get over how fast my other hair is growing with VM. I personally feel like i'm gaining new growth...but I won't really know til I take pics at the end of bottle #1. It feels fuller though.

Same here, and it's actually annoying in two ways:

First, I just got my damn hair cut. The rest of my front hairline has grown at least 1/2"

Second, there is almost this perception of "Hey, hair - quit wasting the good resources on existing hair and pop those hibernating follicles back into action."

 

[CTDeuce]

Same here, and it's actually annoying in two ways:

First, I just got my damn hair cut. The rest of my front hairline has grown at least 1/2"

Second, there is almost this perception of "Hey, hair - quit wasting the good resources on existing hair and pop those hibernating follicles back into action."

Yeah I hear ya on both fronts. Its such a waste of time to go and get a haircut...blah.
And i'm really anxious to see how well it'll work over the course of the 3 bottles I have now. I'm sure it will be great..thus making my wallet forever in your pocket. Damnit

 

[djremix]

just received my 2 bottles. started yesterday. will log and have pics i hope.

for dosage, just how much should i applly if im just applying to the front?

i was also coming off minoxidil/spiro before this. will this make a differance ?

 

[Flyboy]

i was also coming off minoxidil/spiro before this. will this make a differance ?

Yeah, you might experience a shed from quitting minoxidil. The hairs you regrow generally become dependent on it and will fall out within a month or two of stopping... The hope of course would be that they will grow back just as thick but with virile mane spurring the growth. Just be aware that there may be a transitional period where your hair will seem thinner.


CT - that's why I cut my own mullet... saves the hassle of going to the hairdresser!

 

[djremix]

i was only on it for less than 2 months. havent seen any new growth untill i stopped it.
so i should be in the clear. but the anti-androgen effect should have at least helped set up the playing field for VM

 

[blind12]

Immune modulation and tissue specific suppression is difficult - especially within the limitations of natural compounds.

Is this a necessary limitation ?

 

[blind12]

Does it make sense to use Dermaroller to increase absorption and release some growth factors of its own ?

Or may it increase raspberrry ketone absorption beyond the desirable range ?

Bump.

Even an educated guess would be nice.

 

[Flyboy]

i was only on it for less than 2 months. havent seen any new growth untill i stopped it.
so i should be in the clear. but the anti-androgen effect should have at least helped set up the playing field for VM

I assume you mean anti-androgen effect of the spiro? As you probably know Minoxidil has no anti-androgen effect. I have, infact, even seen studies suggesting DHT at the follicle is slightly increased during minoxidil use. Minoxidil is purely a growth stimulant and does nothing to protect the hair from the balding process which carries on unabated underneath the superficial thickening. Eventually, the miniaturization process wins out over the ability of minoxidil to boost the growth and the minoxidil appears to stop working for you.... in my opinion any hair loss regime that doesn't somewhat address the underlying process is like pissing in the wind. It might work at first but eventually you're going to make a mess.

However, back to your situation, since you didn't see any growth from the minoxidil it stands to reason you won't see any shedding from stopping either. Only having been on it 2 months, I highly doubt you'll have any adverse effects from dropping it.

 

[dsade]

Is this a necessary limitation ?

With this being a Supplement, it pretty much is.

Regarding dermaroller...is the the roller wheel with needles?

 

[chore boy]

Bump.

Even an educated guess would be nice.

There have been "studies" demonstrating increased absorbtion with use of the Dermaroller though I don't beleive these findings were from an independent party. Personally, I beleive that you're probably gaining increased absorbtion.


I'm interested in the potential wounding aspect of the needling. One of the treatments going thrdough clinical trials right now (maybe ICX though I can't accurately recall right this second) has displayed information basically stating that wounding with their treatment proved to reap greater results than simply applying the compound without the trauma... mobilization of stem cells and the like, I reckon. Then again, they're dermabrading the areas so who knows as to whether or not you're gaining any useful wounding with needling.

Not sure about the RK question but I don't see how "stimulating the situation" with needling/wounding could hurt anything. Hell, It may even help it... there's no telling. I'm going to be starting my dermarolling today so I guess I"ll be the guinea pig.

Just my opinions.

 

[dsade]

My personal hypothesis is that these compounds (peppermint, capsaicin, RKs) simulate injury by receptor activation, thus triggering the healing process. Since there is no injury, however, the mechanisms instead trigger accelerated growth.

The receptor are pretty close to skin surface, and the goal is not to get them into the bloodstream (transdermal) but keep the localized in the area of application (topical.)

 

[Flyboy]

3 weeks in now and I think I've been seeing an increase in shedding the last few days (i've noticed more hairs on my hands in the shower)...

Pretty interesting if it's the virile mane, if it can cause shedding even while on minoxidil that could potentially mean it's helping hairs even the minox can't help (note to self, shedding is a good sign... shedding is a good sign.... lol). Time frame would fit for it to be due to the VM in my opinion.

Will keep on plugging away!

 

[SgtRotti]

I just orderd some VM...hoping for the best! From everything I have read so far it seems promising.Question tho.. if you are just thinning ..along with shedding would you also experiance a thickening of your hair at the same time?

Also, How do you come up with the 4-5week results being noticed? Just curious if you have tested this in any way or are you soley relying on the ingrediants individual studys?

Thanks for your help!